The WOL and Mass Murder

The problem with killing Lolorito is that killing him doesn't actually do anything to disrupt the balance of power, all that would happen is that someone else would replace him on the syndicate, someone who might be more hostile to the Sultana and the scions and less willing to work with us if he could find it profitable.

it's actually a very clear example of how violence can't necessary solve every problem that appears in front of the WoL.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

that doesn't sound right considering all of pandaemonium exists to satisfy the self serving wants of athena and her experiments. only difference being she prettied it up before her death.

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The truth of what went down in Pandaemonium was being hidden from the public, by Athena as you said. Perhaps he was wrong to do so and being so genial and generous in his dealings with mad scientists was a mistake, but Elidibus/Themis could easily have torn the whole place down when he discovered what went down in there but instead actively chose to give the people running the show they benefit of the doubt. Rather human and fair of him, wouldn't you say? Not at all like the scary, impossible to understand precursor race Yoshida would have us believe the Ancients are.

Regardless to address your point, yes if it was public there would be plenty calling for its shutdown (Though, whether they'd be all that successful in such and endeavour is entirely up for debate. It WAS being ran by the Words of Lahabrea, after all) I do believe. That is, after all what we and Themis were there for. To investigate Pandaemonium and it's collaborators, and put them down if need be.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

The problem with killing Lolorito is that killing him doesn't actually do anything to disrupt the balance of power, all that would happen is that someone else would replace him on the syndicate, someone who might be more hostile to the Sultana and the scions and less willing to work with us if he could find it profitable.

it's actually a very clear example of how violence can't necessary solve every problem that appears in front of the WoL.

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In all honesty, that really wasn't the point I was making and you're taking the wrong lessons from this. Regardless, tearing the weed that is the Syndicate out from the root can ONLY benefit Ul'dah. Every cultural problem we saw so clearly in the early Ul'dahn MSQ and the issues we bear witness to just prior to the Bloody Banquet can be near directly attributed to the Syndicate and the way of life they engender and encourage through their mere existence.

It wouldn't be an easy task to accomplish, yet it's a goal worth striving for nevertheless. At least, it is to me. The Syndicate benefits no one but themselves, and take from all. Ergo, they are a cancer. One to be excised from the greater whole, for the benefit of all.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

The problem with killing Lolorito is that killing him doesn't actually do anything to disrupt the balance of power, all that would happen is that someone else would replace him on the syndicate, someone who might be more hostile to the Sultana and the scions and less willing to work with us if he could find it profitable.

it's actually a very clear example of how violence can't necessary solve every problem that appears in front of the WoL.

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Another reason to keep him around is despite his action he and godbert does begin teaching nanamo how to rule more effectively while navigating the two council faction.... which brings me back to the shere khan comparison lol.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

Another reason to keep him around is despite his action he and godbert does begin teaching nanamo how to rule more effectively while navigating the two council faction.... which brings me back to the shere khan comparison lol.

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A useful evil, yet remains an evil nevertheless. Assisting Nanamo Ul Namo in ruling proficiently is merely his way of proving useful. In a way, Nanamo betrayed herself and what she claimed to stand for by capitulating. If I recall various fictional trends, the "grit-teeth enemies forced by circumstance to partner up" trope inevitably comes to an end sooner or later. So, regardless of his uses Lolorito and the Syndicate remain an evil to be excised. The only real concern is when to drive in the metaphorical stake, so to speak.

While the Syndicate is far from a public good, you need to have a much better plan than either 'bloody murder' or 'abruptly legislate out of existence', because both of those things failed pretty miserably.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

While the Syndicate is far from a public good, you need to have a much better plan than either 'bloody murder' or 'abruptly legislate out of existence', because both of those things failed pretty miserably.

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I never once advocated for such a violent and inefficient solution, nay that motive was painted onto me by another. But regardless of what solution is devised, I won't budge on the point of the Syndicate being an unnecessary evil that has no vindication for it's further existence as a part of Ul'dah's governing body. To be clear, I'm not even advocating for the deaths of those that make up the Syndicate. Nay, the Syndicate as an idea is rotting from the inside out and must be abolished for the good of all Ul'dahns.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

I never once advocated for such a violent and inefficient solution, nay that motive was painted onto me by another. But regardless of what solution is devised, I won't budge on the point of the Syndicate being an unnecessary evil that has no vindication for it's further existence as a part of Ul'dah's governing body. To be clear, I'm not even advocating for the deaths of those that make up the Syndicate. Nay, the Syndicate as an idea is rotting from the inside out and must be abolished for the good of all Ul'dahns.

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Do you actually have a solution? It's been known for a long time that the syndicate is bad and makes society worse, but like Cleretic said, both direct violence and direct legislative action to remove them from power have been tried and have not worked.

It's all very good to say that Ul'duhn capitalism is bad, but I don't know why you keep insisting on that point when most everyone already agrees with that.

Instead of a bloody purge can't the syndicate members die of natural causes and unfortunate accidents?

Assassins are a thing. And it I would love for Loloritos end to be a drug induced permanent coma. Of course the Sultana would pray for his swift recovery and reluctantly take stewardship of all his assets during his treatment.

The Syndicate may be an "unnecessary evil" as has been said, but is still the lesser one... there will always be someone to fill their shoes if they are taken out of the picture, and the new ones are always worse than the previous generation. The Syndicate are a legalized government body and even tought they are indeed corrupt, they still needs to operate somewhat inside the law, with the other members and the Sultana keeping each member in check if they go too far like Teledji Adeledji... They also have the best interests of Ul'dah in mind, since a rich Uldah is a rich Syndicate. You remove them from the picture and\or criminalize them and a new criminal organization will replace it instantly, one which won't have any qualm about bleeding completely dry the city without a tought.

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Originally Posted by Luizgazen

You remove them from the picture and\or criminalize them and a new criminal organization will replace it instantly, one which won't have any qualm about bleeding completely dry the city without a tought.

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I like to compare the Syndicate to the Thieves Guild in Ankh-Morpork. Criminality has now been licensed, taxed and officially in charge of policing themselves. Unfortunately, the Sultanate is not a Patrician like Lord Vetinari.

When all is said and done, though, Lord Lolorito is still paying off his debt to the Warrior of Light.