When will we get the PVP system for PVE ?

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I would prefer that they focus on trimming abilities that almost no one uses. Combat doesn't need streamlined to the degree that PvP is. It just needs to be consolidated a bit.

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You know what, I agree that the PVP system, in its entirety, is far too streamlined for normal PvE play...
The combos are shortened, there's little in the way of utility...



But, there are still elements of it that could be useful in the pve areas....
The progressing combo buttons could be adapted.

The context sensetive buttons in particular would be nice.
Stuff like enochian becoming fire/blizzard 4 depending on buffs.
Dreadwyrm trance becoming deathflare.

These adaptations can save on space without changing functionality.

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Originally Posted by Haxaan

Idle Mode, please Look Forward To It!

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We already have that, just queue for Alliance Raid Roulette!

I'm pretty certain you didn't actually read a word I wrote and instead wanted to apply your own personal experience on jobs that you know don't have the kits that other might. You keep talking about physical ranged DPS and I guess there is a physical ranged dps that doesn't have a big kit or role actions that they are expected to use. Okay. Maybe that's true. You also keep conceding that I might be right in certain situations after they have been pointed out, so you still haven't convinced me that I don't need the abilities that I have placed on my hotbars.

And finally, you made a condescending remark about how I have my UI set up after I explained in detail exactly how I have it set up. I am not 'struggling' with using my abilities, I'm struggling with immersion in this game because half the screen is my keybinds. The UI in general is busy and a hot mess and there is little we can do about it.


Since you love to talk about dropping role actions so much here are mine:

Addle
Break
Drain
Diversion
Lucid Dreaming
Swiftcast
Mana shift
Apocostatis
Surecast
Erase

I play blm.

You tell me which of those I should just drop because they will never, ever, ever be useful.

I have the number of keybinds I do because I use all of the abilities and actions available to me. I'm glad that your kit is smaller and that you think the experience is perfect the way it is. I think that SE needs to take another look going into Shadowbringers for a number of jobs.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Drain, erase, break. No need to thank me.

BLM that never uses Diversion, Lucid and to a lesser extent Mana Shift or Surecast because they are not "useful", well that explains quite a lot...

Although the wonder is if you find all of the role actions to never ever be useful, there is no point equipping them anyway so meaning you'll suddenly have 10 free spaces available, your hotbar problem just got a little lighter. (Of course some role actions you should be taking though, no doubt).

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Drain, erase, break. No need to thank me.

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I have clutch saved a Tank with Erase and kept myself alive in multiple content with Drain.

Break though... outside of PotD/HoH (and perhaps not even there) I don't see it being useful. Maybe it could be useful in 70+ solo content for BLM if it was a planned Burst Phase with Triplecast to move farther away and then plant Ley Lines with the intent to kill before the target catches up. Even then I'm not sure the Heavy effect would make that much a difference though.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm pretty certain you didn't actually read a word I wrote and instead wanted to apply your own personal experience on jobs that you know don't have the kits that other might. You keep talking about physical ranged DPS and I guess there is a physical ranged dps that doesn't have a big kit or role actions that they are expected to use. Okay. Maybe that's true. You also keep conceding that I might be right in certain situations after they have been pointed out, so you still haven't convinced me that I don't need the abilities that I have placed on my hotbars.

And finally, you made a condescending remark about how I have my UI set up after I explained in detail exactly how I have it set up. I am not 'struggling' with using my abilities, I'm struggling with immersion in this game because half the screen is my keybinds. The UI in general is busy and a hot mess and there is little we can do about it.


Since you love to talk about dropping role actions so much here are mine:

Addle
Break
Drain
Diversion
Lucid Dreaming
Swiftcast
Mana shift
Apocostatis
Surecast
Erase

I play blm.

You tell me which of those I should just drop because they will never, ever, ever be useful.

I have the number of keybinds I do because I use all of the abilities and actions available to me. I'm glad that your kit is smaller and that you think the experience is perfect the way it is. I think that SE needs to take another look going into Shadowbringers for a number of jobs.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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What else do you have on your hotbars because if i'm really generous and let you keep the three mentioned useless role actions you are at around 34 which still far away from 50 buttons. lol

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Originally Posted by Rowde

I have clutch saved a Tank with Erase and kept myself alive in multiple content with Drain.

Break though... outside of PotD/HoH (and perhaps not even there) I don't see it being useful. Maybe it could be useful in 70+ solo content for BLM if it was a planned Burst Phase with Triplecast to move farther away and then plant Ley Lines with the intent to kill before the target catches up. Even then I'm not sure the Heavy effect would make that much a difference though.

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Then I'm sorry, if you needed to use Erase and Drain, you and the group weren't doing too hot. Never had any use for any of those skills personally and I run everything except Ultimate. Tanks and DPS don't escape that fate either. Stuns, slows, heavies and to a certain extent silences are all useless. BLM have even Sleep and Scathe they can take off cuz honestly, when do you ever use those?

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Then I'm sorry, if you needed to use Erase and Drain, you and the group weren't doing too hot. Never had any use for any of those skills personally and I run everything except Ultimate. Tanks and DPS don't escape that fate either. Stuns, slows, heavies and to a certain extent silences are all useless. BLM have even Sleep and Scathe they can take off cuz honestly, when do you ever use those?

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PotD, HoH, Eureka, Baldesion Arsenal all have a plethora of uses for Sleep, Silence, and Stun. Quite a few mini-bosses and bosses in ARR content have stun/silence mechanics, not to mention most dungeon trash can be burned even faster with appropriate stun/silence weaves, and that's still applicable in SB content.


"My group" when these situations arise are typically randoms I get partnered in when doing roulettes. And there's nothing to apologize about because a clutch victory was still better than a wipe and reset. I'd rather you apologize for the DPS I get partnered with on WAR in ARR dungeons via Leveling roulette who don't have Goad on there hotbar for my Berserk Overpower spam.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I'm pretty certain you didn't actually read a word I wrote and instead wanted to apply your own personal experience on jobs that you know don't have the kits that other might.

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No, I read what you wrote. I just disagree with it. And I apologize: I thought we were talking about personal experiences considering the post I initially replied to was a complaint about how YOU had ~50 buttons bloating your bars.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Out of curiosity I counted the keybinds I have in my UI. I have ~50. Three hotbars in a 12 'numberpad' layout with shift and ctrl modifiers, three that use the bottom three slots above those numberpads that are bound to the F keys with modifiers, one additional hotbar in a stacked 3 configuration that is bound to the mouse scroll wheel with shift and ctrl modifiers, and another one I recently added to deal with the 'Duty Action' buttons SE thinks we need because apparently, we don't have enough buttons to press already. That's another 3. 50+ buttons and every single one of them has a skill in it that at some point, I am expected to use.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You keep talking about physical ranged DPS and I guess there is a physical ranged dps that doesn't have a big kit or role actions that they are expected to use. Okay. Maybe that's true. You also keep conceding that I might be right in certain situations after they have been pointed out, so you still haven't convinced me that I don't need the abilities that I have placed on my hotbars.

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Things that aren't used often don't need to be on your hotbars. At that point, they are clutter.

Echo Drops? Unless you're doing Eureka or PotD/HoH, why are you letting them sit on your hotbars? Mounts? How many do you have bound? "Lesser potions"? Again, unless you're a raider, why are these things on your hotbars anyways? They aren't needed for any other content outside of Savage/Ultimate (and you don't even need them there; they're for padding your own numbers at this point). Waymarks/other markers? I have the 6 waymarks on my auxiliary bar, but I don't put number markers on them - if I need to use them, I can use the sub-menu and select them. If a certain fight called for them (e.g., Sophia Ex back in Raid Finder), I just made macros to auto-assign marks to players.

I've leveled every job to 70 and played them all in at least some form or fashion. Maybe not in every piece of content, but I've at least done things like dungeons with them. The only ones I am pressed to fit everything onto 2 crossbars is PLD - even SMN/SCH I've managed to fit onto 2 bars, the former having more pet actions assigned than the latter, since Selene is usually left on Sic.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

And finally, you made a condescending remark about how I have my UI set up after I explained in detail exactly how I have it set up. I am not 'struggling' with using my abilities, I'm struggling with immersion in this game because half the screen is my keybinds. The UI in general is busy and a hot mess and there is little we can do about it.

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I'm going to stop you at "condescending". Quite frankly, you came off as far more condescending in your tone throughout your two posts to me than I ever have to you with your disbelief that 1. People could actually disagree with you, and 2. Your insinuation that controller users are unable to actually utilize their hotbar space efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

When there is visual spam all over the screen it's a million times more efficient to tap a keybind than to try to find where the mouse cursor is to hover over a duty action button and click it. I can't believe you would even suggest such a thing and that three other people agreed with you. Good for you that you can do some magic with a controller stick. Keyboard users will still have to keybind in some way and that means a button. Therefore ~50 buttons.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You might be limiting your thinking to the most absolute bare-bones minimal rotation you could be doing in an encounter (and that's what a lot of folks end up doing if they are using a controller).

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If your UI is that cluttered, consider uncluttering it. That's not condescension - that's advice. There are plenty of people that have tons of things keybound, they but don't have them on their UI because they don't deem them necessary.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Since you love to talk about dropping role actions so much here are mine:

Addle
Break
Drain
Diversion
Lucid Dreaming
Swiftcast
Mana shift
Apocostatis
Surecast
Erase

I play blm.

You tell me which of those I should just drop because they will never, ever, ever be useful.

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You can take off Drain and Break - neither are very useful for any of the casters.
There's two free spaces right there.

Break - Heavy is worthless in most content.
Drain - With only 80 potency, the HP absorb is not worth the cast.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

I have the number of keybinds I do because I use all of the abilities and actions available to me. I'm glad that your kit is smaller and that you think the experience is perfect the way it is. I think that SE needs to take another look going into Shadowbringers for a number of jobs.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Just because you have certain role actions or abilities doesn't mean that they are inherently useful. I've never heard a BLM actually say that Break, Drain, or even Freeze are considered useful to their kit.

Comparing my BLM hotbars to my BRD hotbars, they share about the same amount of buttons, even with redundant target macros for things like Apoc and Palisade/Nature's Minne. But BRD is not the only job I play - I also play AST, and AST has far more buttons than BLM or BRD does. Yet, I've fit all of them comfortably onto my UI with no clutter and no excessive keybind usage.

We will have to agree to disagree - because I don't agree that because we can keybind things like mounts, potions, teleports, and waymarks/markers that we need skill pruning to the extent the PvP system offers. There are skills that could stand to go away or be consolidated (Rowde actually made a good suggestion with DRK's Blood Price/Blood Weapon), but I don't think we need full skill consolidation.