DPSing as a healer

Agree with _Slowpoke_

I've no intention of competing for 'most elite Healer' but I certainly don't want to sit around bored, fulfilling base requirements and AFK'ing when they're met. There is always something I can do when not 'healing' to make peoples life easier. However, I found it ironic that it is when I'm doing more than is required of a Healer that people start actually flaming. Being told not to do damage, not to CC, not to knock stray mobs back to the tank made my day, because it says to me that said person honestly expects mediocrity to cover the fact that their ability to hold aggro was utterly abysmal - and it was easier for them to blame everyone else than to accept that they themselves had things to improve on. People going the extra mile can make life easier for everyone - it's not a 'requirement', it is simply beneficial ie. no reason not to do it other than laziness.

I'm torn on this particular issue is because while I try to contribute to my groups as much as possible (including DPS), there are times when I won't - primarily when completing a raid for the first time. I always come prepared, but part of being comfortable going into CS is trust, and being as familiar as possible with the content - a challenge using DF. A lot of the DPS proponents here are highly experienced players who know the content extremely well. If I'm new to something, I'd be taking risks going into CS given the learning curve. This is a situation in which I would really want other players to be patient with me, and understand that my not adding much DPS is because I feel like taking that risk could potentially lead to party deaths, or at worst, a wipe. As soon as I feel like I understand the mechanics, I'll happily DPS. I personally experience significant stress when healing, but I love it - it just takes some time to get to "that" point comfort-wise.

I do agree with the community in saying that you won't get 100% out of your class unless you are using your entire toolkit, and by at least trying to DPS you will be a more well-rounded and valued player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernosaur

SNIP

---

This was perfect.
The perfect attitude and the perfect explanation.

the TL;DR; version:
THIS game's Healing Roles are setup to be Heal+DPS as much as you can (as can be seen in the Hall of the Novice)
YOUR idea of Healing MAY NOT match the DESIGN of FFXIV
LEARN to play THIS GAME (as it's not JUST YOUR GAME, it's EVERYONE's GAME) the way it was DESIGNED
There's a REASON we are posting here, whether you like it or not.
LEARNING to play the game to the current meta makes you BETTER.

Lastly, The opinions we state on the forums about healers in general do not necessarily represent how we are in game or to individual healers here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valmaxian

I'm torn on this particular issue is because while I try to contribute to my groups as much as possible (including DPS), there are times when I won't - primarily when completing a raid for the first time. I always come prepared, but part of being comfortable going into CS is trust, and being as familiar as possible with the content - a challenge using DF. A lot of the DPS proponents here are highly experienced players who know the content extremely well. If I'm new to something, I'd be taking risks going into CS given the learning curve. This is a situation in which I would really want other players to be patient with me, and understand that my not adding much DPS is because I feel like taking that risk could potentially lead to party deaths, or at worst, a wipe. As soon as I feel like I understand the mechanics, I'll happily DPS. I personally experience significant stress when healing, but I love it - it just takes some time to get to "that" point comfort-wise.

---

As a DPS, and an aspiring healer, I'd rather a mistake DPSing than learning the fight before DPSing. Being comfortable is important, but being confident is equally important.
Whenever I go into a DF as a Healer I always say "I'm new to healing please bear with me" and I have NEVER EVER had anyone make a negative comment. I've had grumpy, angry players (none directed at me though) but as has been pointed out in other places, if you just tell them ahead of time, people are super open about giving you space. Even in Extreme Fights.
There's a reason for DPSing WHILE learning instead of Learn->DPS:
Learning to improvise a fight you don't know with your full toolkit makes you better able to respond to "OH S$!&" moments in future fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valmaxian

A lot of the DPS proponents here are highly experienced players who know the content extremely well.

---

Eh, not really. Outside of Extreme and Savage, I DPS heavily even in completely new content - you'll find me in Cleric even in dungeons that have been released an hour ago. I usually have enough buttons to press once damage actually starts happening to prevent people from dying, and even if they do, I'll know better next time - learning by failure is way better than learning by success.

I'd say it has less to do with familiarity with content and/or the people you happen to be grouped with and more to do with familiarity and confidence in your job. I can play both WHM and SCH (and to a lesser degree, AST, because I barely use it these days) in dungeons while half asleep and still push good damage, (way too) often more than DPS players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

Yep, the attitude needs to change that striving for improvement of yourself and others and being required to do more than the absolute minimum is "bullying", like you try to say it is. This is part of the reason people in this game are so bad. Nothing requires them to improve by design. There's no real difficulty curve. So now we, the players, should also stop requiring improvement? How about no?

---

Excuse me? I need you to point out where I say asking people to improve is bullying? Quote it. Bold it. I implicitly stated that if you are making other people feel less than yourself, THAT is bullying. But you're not asking other players to improve, are you? You're telling them to. You're requiring it. You're demanding it, and you come off as belligerent doing so. This is not ok. If you want to talk about being considerate of others, then I think you need to reflect on telling people what to do is poor etiquette and bad manners. This is something MOST people are taught as children.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

For the umpteenth time, the fact that healer DPS is not strictly and numerically required to beat bosses has nothing to do with this. Healers should absolutely be told to DPS. If they cannot handle DPSing and healing, they should either move on to another role or accept that they are a mediocre healer. Don't try to make sub-par play acceptable, we have enough bad players as it stands.

---

It has EVERYTHING to do with this. Do you have such pomp that you feel what you say is law? The golden standard? Your issue is you feel healers than only heal are performing sub-par. It's really isn't complicated. The healing DPS contribution required to clear an instance is currently set at 0%. Anything greater than this number means the healer is doing more than what is required of them to complete an instance. If the DPS number is set at, let's say 70% and they indeed to put forward that 70%, they too are doing what is required of them. But let's say they are not, and their contribution is hovering 60%. This means the tank and/or the healer have to make up the loss. This means they are doing more than what is required. It means they are "carrying" the DPS members of their group assuming the DPS are deliberately entering instances with sub-par performances.

I get it, you feel players who only put forth exactly what is needed are mediocre at best, and that's fine. You want players to strive to be better than they were yesterday, and this too is perfectly ok. But to feel like you're carrying a healer through an instance because they don't DPS? That is utterly ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

But. They. Are. They are playing on a level of a DPS autoattacking, or a tank spamming Flash. That is literally what a heal-only healer is doing. The absolute, bare, minimum required contribution. That is the very definition of inadequate.

---

Read the last clause again. Then look up the definition of "adequate". Then also tell me how many times you failed to clear something because the healer didn't DPS. You really need to understand that YOUR requirements are not the same as the game's requirements to complete something. If you want to be Yoda, and coach up healers to perform to your standards, you are more than free to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

By the twelve, no, it's not. By your definition, criticism is bullying. Stop trying to paint people who want and require more than the minimum contribution from people as "bullies". You're basically name-calling because you have no arguments.

---

Again, I am pretty sure I made it clear what bullying is. Nothing wrong with criticism if it is constructive. Your criticism is anything but that. As for the arguments, in my last response to you, I tried to be nice and I tried to be civil. Yet, you continue to press on by quoting my statements. Why is this? Especially with a post that was clearly an attempt to bring some harmony among all of us no matter your view? It sure in hell isn't because I have no argument, or because they are weak. You defend not being a bully so strongly, even though I never called you one. Speaks tons dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

There aren't, and you haven't even tried to provide any. Also, pretty much all other reasons people have provided here or elsewhere reduce to either or both of laziness and selfishness, including the unwillingness to improve.

---

I shouldn't have to provide any. Nor should any healer who is uncomfortable. Do you know this feeling? Being uncomfortable? It is NOT something you brush aside. What you likely consider the weakest of the these arguments is quite possibly the biggest reason why you shouldn't press the issue, and why I defend these players as much as I do. If someone says they are uncomfortable, it STOPS right there. THAT is what is called common courtesy. If that is not ok with you, boot the healer, get a new one and move on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

On the contrary, what you are doing is counter-productive. You are advocating sub-par playstyle as acceptable, or even "great". That's not gonna help anyone improve, because it allows people to sit comfortably on their minimum contribution thinking they are good players.

---

I never said the minimum contribution makes a healer great. Is this what you do to make a point? Reword things to shape them in your favor? And you tell me I don't have an argument? Have I not clearly stated I encourage healer DPS? The whole reason why I am here is because I am telling you that telling other players what to do is NOT ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

The elite healers are those who maximize DPS in the hardest fights the game provides, not those who DPS at all, your definitions make no sense. Again, you cannot be a good or even "great" healer without utilizing Cleric and your offensive spells. Hell, you can't even properly learn to heal without DPSing, as I've pointed out multiple times in this and/or other threads.

---

Just love how you left out where I said good and great healers also DPS. Your arguments are literally getting weaker the more you make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

This is about the only thing in this entire post I will agree with. I will absolutely have patience and understanding for someone who actually tries, because that means they are willing to improve, instead of expecting the rest of the party to carry them. Willingness to improve is step 0 to becoming a good player. And yes, failure is crucial to learning, because continued success makes people complacent.

---

Bravo! You are capable of more than indifference. Apply that to your "criticism" and you just might garner success with improving the game play of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

As long as you keep up this nonsensical, argument-free defense of bad play in the name of not criticizing people for said play, no, we're not gonna get along. Please stop, you're not helping.

---

I don't remember defending bad play. I only remember telling you that your definition of bad play is a crock of shit. G'day to you sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

learning by failure is way better than learning by success.

---

You're so arrogant in your arguments that you are even trying to say HOW people should learn a fight.

Gemina,

Quote:

---

I don't remember defending bad play.

---

You have to remember, in low-level instances, your party will only seldom need healing if your tank has any skill at all. This means you are defending players doing absolutely nothing, or worse, drawing aggro for no reason, while the rest of the group does stuff. That's bad play.

How's this for a compromise: Instead of just doing nothing if you don't want to DPS, just tell the tank at the beginning of the instance that you don't want to DPS, and that they should pull bigger to give you something to do. That way, you can spend more time healing and not have to worry about doing something that you don't want to do. If the tank agrees, anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zadocfish

Gemina,

You have to remember, in low-level instances, your party will only seldom need healing if your tank has any skill at all. This means you are defending players doing absolutely nothing, or worse, drawing aggro for no reason, while the rest of the group does stuff. That's bad play.

How's this for a compromise: Instead of just doing nothing if you don't want to DPS, just tell the tank at the beginning of the instance that you don't want to DPS, and that they should pull bigger to give you something to do. That way, you can spend more time healing and not have to worry about doing something that you don't want to do. If the tank agrees, anyways.

---

I'm sorry if I give the impression that I am heals-only healer. I can understand why, but this is not so. However, I am and always will be a heals-first healer. I most certainly DPS in group play when it is safe to do so. Sometimes it takes me a little bit to grow in confidence with my group, especially a DF group but I do get there. In my static though, I am in Cleric a great portion of the time. I've had a lot of difficulty getting to point where I am confident enough to handle both duties, and they have been with me since the very beginning, and have been very supportive and have done well to help me feel like it is not the end of the world if someone KO's or the group wipes since no matter what, I always shoulder all the blame. One of my faults as a healer that I am still working on.

I understand how helpful healer DPS is, and how much it is appreciated so I indeed strongly encourage it. I believe every healer should strive to be great, and this does involve proficiency in stance dancing. There is no getting around that. My abrasion is purely towards those who abuse the current healer meta to belittle other players.

Thank you for your kind comments, and mere mention of compromise puts a smile on my face. If pushers can loosen up just a little bit, and those who don't use Cleric can try a little harder, I believe it would go a long ways towards finding said compromise.