Absolute frustration at not being able to see my own DPS (ps4)

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Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula

Bold words from someone who just threw a tantrum calling others human filth and in a result a whole page got deleted.

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not my fault >.>;; i didn't report anyone. but those giving me personal attacks which lead to it was in the wring anyway and do act like oit but I was just typing that out to post due to1K limit.

And i only said something nasty to 1 person edited it and apologise and it was outa self defense because what they said was uncalled for.
why should i be treated poorly for saying "i don't like parser"

That pretty much whats been going on.

Dont try to sugarcoat things.

Also, i'm baffled how you keep saying parsers would bring out the worst behaviour of people, then proceed to call out others when they dont agree with you. Ultimately the blame is on SE. They need to stop pamperig all these casuals that are scared that some random dude in the internet told them they are bad.

Because actually disliking parsers in inexplicable. How can you reasonably dislike a tool that is telling you how much damage you are doing and the details within like your accuracy, your crit rate, etc.? How can you dislike a tool that is made to help people improve.

Your issue is that you are deluding the reality to sell a misguided stance.

Why else do you continue to run into issues even when it doesn't pertain to parsers? Why did you receive harassment due to gear-swapping or 3rd party add-ons in WoW?

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, it isn't the fault of parsers, gear-swapping, and add-ons? Maybe it's actually the people who are at fault? And, maybe, instead of targeting the tools and inadvertently harming thousands of people, the obviously better option would be to deal with the small minority of people that are harassing others using the tool?

And, if you want to have an honest discussion then have one. Don't blatantly lie in your posts and act like you're speaking the truth.

PS players in this very topic are complaining about how they are at a disadvantage due to not being able to run a parser.

Also this facetious notion that not having a parser is the "worst thing in the world." Stop being an ass hat. Nobody is saying it's the worst thing in the world. But what people have provided is solid FACT after FACT about what you lose out on by not parsing.

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Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula

Dont try to sugarcoat things.

Also, i'm baffled how you keep saying parsers would bring out the worst behaviour of people, then proceed to call out others when they dont agree with you. Ultimately the blame is on SE. They need to stop pamperig all these casuals that are scared that some random dude in the internet told them they are bad.

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i do not sugar coat thing, I call out bs. Nothing i have said as been an argument, people are misunderstanding what I wrote. All I have said was again
I'm not against parser, I am not for parser, i don't care if people parse. All i did was explain my personal experiences around parse attitudes as to why i dislike parse.

The replies i got was (sumed up cuz im sick), "you're a lier" "pics or it didn't happem" "i call bs" "your denying tools, and denying people to improve" Sorry but I have a right to defend myself.

@ brian_

I dislike parser because how easy they are to manipulate, which is my experience on ps3 dcuo. Which you can top dps content by spaming aoe.. i know this cuz my power choice had a strong aoe dot. All i did was spam the aoe and my sqaure button and was top dps in some content I did.

Just because I dislike something doesn't mean I'm against it being added. I also did explain it was a player issue and not a tool issue.


And you can't facually claim "small minority" as we wouldn't know unless it was added. I know that when ps3 dcuo parser was added people harrassed others big time. I also know for a fact people on the forums complain daily over how people play, getting very nasty for no reason.

And what us this misguided stance? I'm confused.

A;ll i said/ have said is you can improve with out a parser. And that they are against the ToS.

Also if its saying parser are not needed to improve, then explain how in 2002-2003 Japanese players played ff11? as it was a ps2 only mmo then.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Question why is not having a parser considered the worst thing in the world?

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It's not, and the only person in this thread having said as much is yourself.

can you improve without a parser?

Depending on your job sure you can, up to a certain point.

The tools provided by the game are not sufficient enough to track and calculate your performance within a reasonable amount of time nor do they give live feedback, this is especially crucial when playing at endgame where DPS checks are the go to design for raids and certain Ex primal encounters.

Is anyone expecting top tier play and parse results in content like expert roulette and the diadem?

Nope, not at all.

They are however expecting players to at least play close to average, or rather up to the level and ilvl of their equipment.

The job forums, any class rotation guides, BiS guides and fight strategies have all been created through the benefit of someone somewhere parsing and recording their data, analyzing it and then peer reviewing it. if you've ever looked at any of this information or asked someone else advice based on this information you have indirectly reaped the benefits of someone using a parser.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

I never said I was against it.

I was saying what would happen if it was added What people are not understanjding is the Link between gear swaping and parser debates. People use the same arguments on BOTH debates, and stem from the same exact crowd. Which is "play my way if you don't you suck because I said so and here is math to prove it"

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This conversation only happens if someone is so far below the average that it's becoming a detriment to the 3 - 7 other members of your party.

Despite what you may believe MMOs are team oriented games, they aren't designed for solo play when you start reaching content at the highest level. This means you are expected to perform in a way that benefits the team because everyone pays their subscription fee the same as you and does not wish to waste time and in game resources bashing their heads futilely against not only the encounter but also a stubborn party member.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

gear swaping happen because of parsers. It was how players could get top dps, using plug ins to increase macro size to pull it off. This mindset (both gear swap amd parser numbers) went from raid content in ff11 to leveling content. You was expected to do it 24/7 in any and every content. This isn't a case of jerks being jerks, but hive mine conformity if you go against the hive mind your ousted.

And further exmple of parser in leveling content was hive mind conformity over rdm being able to melee in again leveling content, basiclly if you was a rdm who used a sword and hit a mob you was kicked. If you was a smn who used your avatar you was kicked, this was due to parser data reading that rdm melee was low and avatar dmg was low for the mp cost. Which slowed the exp/hr rate.

Thos also lead to again the flavor of the mnth level bursts of jobs based on how SE tweeked them.

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This is only a half truth and it's a gross oversimplification of what really happened in XI

What really happened was when analysis went into stats it was discovered that various weapon skills and spells reaped benefits from various stats.

Something like Penta Thurst being a 5 hit weaponskill with a 20% STR and DEX modifier meant that the natural conclusion to get more damage out of it was to stack STR, DEX, ACC, ATK (if you met accuracy) and Crit.

You didn't need a parser to see the increase in damage that changing gear would provide you, which lead to having TP and WS sets; one set to get TP as soon as possible and another to swap in per weaponskill.

for spellcasters this came in the form of various spells having modifiers like INT, MND, CHR (lol) VIT, etc

By intentionally not gearswapping mid battle you were gimping your performance in comparison to someone who was and since battle was slow enough paced to eyeball some of the changes you didn't always need a parser or 3rd party tool to see if someone was bringing down the performance of the group.

Now yes there were players that used 3rd party programs to create elaborate gear swap macros but they were far from a neccesity, with proper macro snytax (and a few pages) you could emulate the same macros in game, i would know as i did it for 7 years on DRG, NIN, THF, and COR (granted i didn't play RDM)

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

At the moment parser use is againsy the ToS, yoshida only understood this will be used (he is a pc mmo gamer and knows this stuff from a pc gamer pov) But as a SE employee he can't state they are ok due to the SE ToS. Stating use them but don't talk about using them. This means players only talk about them in their raid static. If parser are made public that would change, and to deny it, is not seeing the bigger picture.

I could care less if a parser gets added though, what I don't want to see is DF exclusion. I already had my fill of that playing as a new tank on NA severs.

The only reason you didn't see it in WoW or DCUo as much is leveling is 100% solo. Early FF11 and current FF14 leveling isn't 100% solo.

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This is exactly why mostly console users have been asking for in in game feature, because once you get to mid/endgame it becomes important to start contributing adequate DPS to the party, this is especially a problem for classes like Summoner that are entirely DoT based with the game having no proper feedback system to analyze and evaluate your performance.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

And I never once argued for or against parser I just stated i dislike parser, feel they are not needed, and my experiences that lead me to think that way. What I got in return is harrasment, and fallacy about gaming from pro parser people who think I'm an idiot for disliking something.

So ya my boyfriend stuck up for me, because i was upset I was mistreated for giving my two cents.

I honestly feel bad for players when they feel they need to parse to know if they are good or not, and simply can't use chess like ;thinking to improve.

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This is incredibly condescending and you may not even realize how.

Just because you feel that you do not want or need something doesn't mean there aren't others who see the value and want such things, if you don't care either way then why bother trying to put them down and convince them otherwise?

If you really are neutral and don't care then a parser being added to the game will have little effect on you even if you dislike them.

You have not been mistreated or harassed so far in the thread, disagreeing with your opinions is not a form of harassment, especially when others are posting evidence to the contrary.

With the number of in game harassment issues you are claiming to have dealt with I'm beginning to wonder if you're just the unluckiest player in MMO history, or if we really aren't getting the full picture.

If it's the latter it might be something for you to consider.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Also and correct me if I'm wrong,
Parser run by collecting data by calculating each skills damage over a period of time and if programed well, factors in Dot. on top of this and presented as a ratio of over all damage per second.

If I'm not incorrect how does one come up with a rotation based on that?

simply put what i mean is 5+6+7 = 6+7+ 5 = 5+7+6= 7+6+5 over the same 10 seconds.

Only variable being buffs use which changes the numbers based on the timing use, procs that increase the damage or apply a buff.

And debuffs that again change the numbers.

And why does one need a parser when there is a chat log battle text which reads your own person damage per skill (which is what parser read/factor)

With option of seeing other players batle log text (which again used by parser to factor dps)

This is what people have failed to explain since WoW when I asked, and I'm not being rude, just trying to learn more about this.

For me personally, don't factor ration well, at most when I play any rpg i factor (with out a tool) my dmg vs rate the mob dies. And try to increase4 my damage to make a monster die faster.

Either by testing combination of skills, gear, stat allocation via trial and error. All with out numbers outside of Percentages. I can mathmaticaly do percentages easier then ratio. Personally speaking I've always used geomatry and mentally picturing the hp bar in a grid format and calculating much and how fast i can take ouch each but of the grid. Again w.o a tool to do the math for me.

This is how I play ff14, when factoring my skill use/ buff use/ bonus state setting. Via trial and error.

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If you are able to do this that is great for you, continue to do so.

But if others wish for a game feature to be added that allows them to do the same, the supportive community response would to be either to help them in their endeavor or ask them to post math so you can help them figure out a rotation.

Telling them they don't need one because you can do the math on your own however comes across as nothing but callous and mean.

I dont like parsers either but id rather they implement one that is toggleable so i can ignore it and just report problematic people.
Its like the gun debate, guns dont cause problems, bad ppl with guns cause problems.

Im curious though how a person will recognize a difference between rotations on a parser when criticals can drastically effect your average dps but i never looked into them, dont care to. If it gets to the point i have to worry about it or i felt the community made a turn for the worst in game with them, I'm sure I'd end up quiting out of anxiety caused by it.
I really dont see a toggleable parser in game that shows only your dps as a problem though, cant see others, in fact... I would hope this would be the means to report against ppl who are using a different parser against other people, everyone should be using the in game one if developed for "self improvement".

@ ryel

unluckiest player My boyfriend can back me up on it.

I wasn't refering to the counter points to what I said but the posts they went beyond that.

And me saying you don't need a parser, was not meant to be mean at all just a fact, Not saying it as "you can't parse" I don't care if people parse or not. I was just stating a fact that 1 isn't needed nothing more or less.

And I know this is an MMO, and to play content in groups, I don't understand why you need to tell me this.

I played on Garuda/Lakshmi server played rdm from 2004-2009 after I got tired of the "backline heal or gtfo" I can't tcount how many parties (for leveling mind you) that I politely left, who shouted in a populated town how bad I was. I can't tell you how often I got tells when I stood around jeuno in my full rdm af (with sword) how i shouldn't be using a sword, and getting called a noob.

this is my thought process and understanding, and something I question others about.

To my understanding addons and parsing started off in WoW due to addons being allowed.

How did people play preWoW mmo like Everquest, Ultima? How did jp players play ff11 from 2002-2003, because ff11 was a ps2 only game?

If parsing is needed to learn (based on replies) how did those players learn?

I didn't hear the term parser till I played WoW @ Wrath expac launch. Not 1 person mentioned it in ff11 from 2004-2010 when windower was being widely used.

Also how did DCUO players on ps3 learn as a parser wasn't there @ launch, amd wasn't added till it was f2p?

I'm asking to learn btw

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

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In a perfect world everybody would be seeking self improvement... but till we reach that point the fear of being called out for playing poorly is one of the best motivators there is.

Many of the players don't care that they are pulling others down, while they have their sweet anonymity, but the second somebody could blame them for it... personally I would rather learn my rotation to avoid risking the abuse.

I remember posting in this at page 4...

huh...

32 pages and not a single response from a community team member, would a "We're sending the feedback to the development team" or, "It's not going to happen" really hurt? Either way, the arguing is getting a tad pointless as it's clear we're not going to get a response one way or another.