DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

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Originally Posted by Nalien

You're aware our suggestion is effectively the same as Triple Triad, right? Just out in the wilderness rather than in cities. People would only be able to duel in areas where they'd be spamming their skills in PvE content; Hunts, Maps, FATEs, regular mobs...

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Except that Triple Triad is far less invasive than dueling.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Legacy servers weren't an "extra" thing, they were simply a distinction between servers where people had carried over from 1.0 and servers where everyone would start at Lv1 with nothing...

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And dueling servers would be the exact same thing, but better for duelists. Yet you don't want that.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Apparently a DRG fighting a Morbol and a DRG fighting a MNK is vastly different with the latter being cancer to the eyes.

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If it weren't different you'd be content with fighting Morbols instead of asking for duels.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Again, because I don't think you going "Ew, those two are dueling!" is an annoyance which outweighs me losing well over 70m Gil. Because I don't think your "issue" would be a wide spread one. Because I don't need it to be easier to find people to duel with, I already know enough PvPers on my server to manage just fine. Because I don't think SE should have to go out and purchase extra servers just because you have an issue with seeing people duel in the same places they'd be spamming skills in PvE...

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And you losing well over 70m gil isn't an annoyance that outweighs my dislike for duels either. If duelists would be as rare as you claim them to be, then your issue wouldn't be a widespread one either. SE also wouldn't need to buy new servers because they're going to be freeing up servers soon enough when they open the EU datacenter. Leaving what? "I don't want a better environment to find duelists just because I don't want to acknowledge that your solution is far better for everyone."

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Honestly, the absurd notion here is thinking 'see=involved'. If I drive by an accident I can see that there was an accident but it involves me not. Yet if I was in said accident I'd clearly be involved. I don't care about the things I see in the game anywhere near as much as is being made out to be. A sudden Fat Chocobo flash mob isn't going to stop me from turning in a quest, a Fate popping up along the road isn't going to force me to stop and turn around.

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Thank you for being reasonable. Good to know some people who aren't interested in duels are aware of how absurd the "I don't want to see it" complaint is.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Someone walking up to me to try and start a duel, though, is going to interrupt me and potentially ruin my day. Hopefully they won't be insulted when I decline and go back to what I was doing. I can't say for certain that things will go that smoothly, noone can. It's that uncertainty that needs be addressed before open world duels will be accepted enough to not be so vehemently opposed.

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That's why we've suggested things like locking it behind a quest/minimum PvP rank/Friendslist/etc., that way if you're completely uninterested you have the tools to be completely out of the loop as far as duels go, or more accurately we (PvPers) would have the tools to duel each other, with you opting to never even get the tools, meaning you'd be unaffected.

I'll admit, some asshats might get aggressive about seeking out a duel with someone clearly not interested, but that should be an exception and it should be something a GM/Blacklist can deal with, if the quest/PvP Rank requirement doesn't already. I really doubt, with such restrictions, people would use duels to harass. It would simply be too much trouble. Blind requests (like we actually have with Triple Triad) would be an issue, but that's not what we've been suggesting.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

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We don't. We've been suggesting ways that would mean PvE players would be completely out of the loop for duels, only people interested in duels would get involved. Any serious PvPer should have no interest in challenging a PvE player. I'd gladly accept a challenge from a PvE player to get them into it and try and teach them a few things, but I imagine you don't even have the PvP skills set on your hotbar? Yeah, I have zero interest in challenging people like that. I simply want to challenge friends/people in PvP linkshells, either to pass the time during PvP queues, to practice (I really don't want to WHM in Frontlines because my learning would negatively impact my team), or for fun. I don't want to get people who are uninterested involved, that's why I've constantly been suggesting ways to prevent PvE players from being harassed.

There are a lot of crazy people in this thread

As a PvP hater I support the inclusion of a duel function, so long as there is also an auto-decline option, and it's not allowed in Hawker's Alley etc.

I mean, technically most FF games are FFA PvP anyway; you're almost always able to target and beat the crap out of your own party members :P

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

If it weren't different you'd be content with fighting Morbols instead of asking for duels.

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Your initial point was that the aesthetic of the game would change negatively. And of course, fighting against a player is vastly different than a computer AI, including if the Morbol in my example was controlled by a player. I figured this would be obvious.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Your initial point was that the aesthetic of the game would change negatively. And of course, fighting against a player is vastly different than a computer AI, including if the Morbol in my example was controlled by a player. I figured this would be obvious.

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Yes, and the aesthetic of adventurers fighting monsters is very different from having them fight each other. You're obviously not bothered by it, I am, and I'm certainly not alone in this.

Yet you guys refuse the superior solution that would be dueling servers.

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

Apparently a DRG fighting a 5th Cohort Secutor and a DRG fighting a MNK is vastly different with the latter being cancer to the eyes.

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Amended, for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Gonna have to say no, because after the whining that is the wow forums on "x class is op", I'm glad to not see it here.

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This game has PvP already though, the reason you don't see "x class is op" is because PvP is handled separately. Duels would not change the current situation in the slightest. We already actually have these complains in the PvP section, though I can't say how it is in comparison to WoW (seems tame here to me). Since it already isn't affecting you, how would it suddenly with duels?

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

I think the best compromise would be to have an instanced 1v1 arena..

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Given current PvP queues are bad enough, we don't really want them to be made worse by having another mode to queue taking people out of the current ones. The main reason most of us want duels is as something to do between queues, and we've suggested numerous ways to avoid PvE players being impacted (locking it behind a quests, or friendlist (like Mail Mog), having a minimum PvP Rank requirement, etc. etc.).

A better compromise would be to simply section off a (new) part of somewhere like Wolves' Den Pier for it, though that has its own heap of issues. Lag first and foremost, funneling all the PvPers into a small area for duels is just going to negatively impact the duels. Spreading them out across the (lets face it, mostly unused) open world seems much more appealing. Gives us much more variety in battlefield as well, and requires no real extra work on SEs part, like new maps/instances/servers would.

Gonna have to say no, because after the whining that is the wow forums on "x class is op", I'm glad to not see it here.

PVP servers are really not a good solution.
You'll start to see much more commitment to pvp balance and resources toward developing it, if they actually give those servers.
Just because it'll huddle all the PVP-ers into their realm doesn't mean we won't be affect by such change in direction.

Please, no.

I don't hate duels. I even find them fun.
I'm not even against this request, to be clear. (Not all of it, anyway)

But I could do without it at the same time too.
I don't mind PVP, but it brings out the worst in people.

I think the best compromise would be to have an instanced 1v1 arena.
If that's too hard because you'll run out of instances when people want to duel a lot (probably only at the start though), there's an alternative.

It could also be something like WoW's Brawler's Guild except 2 people sign up to duel.
You guys wait to use the non-instanced arena and people can watch the match too.

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Originally Posted by Conradus

Players simply do not attack other players on an individual basis in Final Fantasy. It's completely counter to the central theme of teamwork that is FF.

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Kimhari and Tidus did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ktdh2hjAqQ

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Originally Posted by Nalien

A better compromise would be to simply section off a (new) part of somewhere like Wolves' Den Pier for it, though that has its own heap of issues. Lag first and foremost, funneling all the PvPers into a small area for duels is just going to negatively impact the duels. Spreading them out across the (lets face it, mostly unused) open world seems much more appealing. Gives us much more variety in battlefield as well, and requires no real extra work on SEs part, like new maps/instances/servers would.

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That's basically my alternate solution. I guess I didn't describe it enough.
I mean, it doesn't need to be in the Wolve's Den either. It could be by Halatali or something as a fight club area.

As I said, a non-instanced arena. I only said "wait" because you can fight 1v1 and everyone can watch like a colosseum.
But it might be better if there are a few fighting pits so more people can fight at the same time.

I don't think people will be using that kind of thing all the time, so you shouldn't have to wait.

Anyway, I think that alternative is best because I think duels are fine.

But I also want PVP to stay in its box.