with this mindset the future looks dim

From the start of Turn 5 there's specific things need to do. conflags and fireballs. Theres specific things you need to do. Divebombs, twisters, dreadknights. even the final phase. There is specific things you need to do to beat Twintania. With zero information you will have no idea what to do to pass those. Wanting to go in blind is not going in and asking "What do I do?"

Goin in without that knowledge on fights with mechanics that can wipe the party where the other 7 know what to do. How is that fair?

In reply to those saying players should go into DF expecting new players who don't know the fight. Those said players should also go into DF expecting players who don't want to teach them either and do the research themselves. Instead of expecting everyone to cater to them.

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

I find it comical that the basis of the oppositions' arguement is still "you are wasting our time". You do realize you are playing a GAME right? Whose sole purpose is to get you into a non realistic non joblike environment to WASTE TIME. Come on guys. Play the game as suits you. Wanna be hardcore raider? Do it. Study everything to your heart desires. Wanna go at your leisure? Cool. Do as you like. Both sides need to quit this mess. Neither is obligated to the other regardless of numbers.

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To add to that, how can someone that's hardcore not have a static? That makes no sense since how can anyone be wasting their time if they are all about the exclusive club?

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Originally Posted by Seiryuukishi

I find it comical that the basis of the oppositions' arguement is still "you are wasting our time". You do realize you are playing a GAME right? Whose sole purpose is to get you into a non realistic non joblike environment to WASTE TIME. Come on guys. Play the game as suits you. Wanna be hardcore raider? Do it. Study everything to your heart desires. Wanna go at your leisure? Cool. Do as you like. Both sides need to quit this mess. Neither is obligated to the other regardless of numbers.

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No, a game is meant to be entertainment. Good entertainment is NEVER a waste of time to me. Bad entertainment on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

Brb, looking for job at the hospital as a surgeon without knowing anything about what I do. I hope they do not fire me... 8D

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brb, looking for an hospital which recruits people randomly in the street expecting them to fully know how to perform surgery

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Originally Posted by Sayoko

it is missing a point. it is expected you know how to do what you do, dodging, dps, healing/holding aggro, and the like. but where was it written that we needed prior knowledge of the fight mechanics before even entering the fight? some will wipe the party from not knowing but it is there playing and they can choose how to learn albeit it may be a bit painful of learning. many dungeons as healer i went into without knowing stuff prior to entering and it went perfectly well, learned the fight as i went or on the second attempt.

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It works for easy stuff. But do you really expect people to know how the coil bosses works without prior knowledge? It takes hours of training for progress groups to get past those bosses before strat videos are up.

I personally stay away from Duty Finder and Party Finder, with the exception of the Duty Roulette each day, so I really have no personal opinion either way. I do have a question for those who are saying Duty Finder should be for learning. Let's hypothetically say Duty Finder is understood by the masses to be the "learning" place for fights, and then you use Party Finder for the kills. Over time, your queue times are going to end up being similar to this thread. It almost seems to me there is going to be an ebb and flow, depending on where people are stuck at. What I'm saying is that three months from now, there might not be anyone to join DF to "learn" Coil, and thus the expectation might be seen as Duty Finder for T5 is for clears, and Party Finder for new people. The issue I see is that when does that pendulum swing, and there doesn't seem to be consensus (not that I would expect there to be).

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

brb, looking for an hospital which recruits people randomly in the street expecting them to fully know how to perform surgery

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Bad analogy. People who queue for an instance = People sending in an application. So it's not just random people. The difference between getting a job and joining an instance is: For a job, people review your application/CV to make sure you can do it. ;p

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Bad analogy. People who queue for an instance = People sending in an application. So it's not just random people. The difference between getting a job and joining an instance is: For a job, people review your application/CV to make sure you can do it. ;p

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On the other hand, if they pick randomly in the stock of applications without reviewing it (DF), they can't complain if the one they got can't do the job. They can either stop the trial (leaving the instance) or deal with it and teach him a few basics hoping that he will progress.

It would have been a different matter if they had at least read the CV (PF). Then they could have known he wasn't suitable for the job, or if he somehow managed to sneak in, could boot him out without any second thought.

I kinda find it amusing that the song in the opening video says right in the lyrics "look to those who walk before to lead those who walk after." And yet here we are 32 pages of arguing lmao.

My point of views Is DF is their to end up with different kind of player (Learner / youtuber) ...PF was made for people to create ONLY Youtuber party or ONLY learning party .....


Before coil 1 to 5 was not in DF and only youtuber team could be it in .... so now its on DF so that new player can have chance of doing it
im not talking of me i did t4 i know the fight (but guess what i never watched video)

And i can tell you .... you cannot start T1 .. T2 ..without talking to each other which one is MT or OT .... hummm weird you guys say "we know our fight" dont want to prepare before boss but in T1 T2 we spend always few sec telling who is MT or OT and for BRD who do the first blunt arrow to the first ...but that is telling what the other do .... in CT at behemot people wait at the boss telling who is at what tower and who MT or OT ...... at diabolos : "who do the doors?" that is getting prepare. ...

as a tank to mark the mobs is his job ....but aint that is telling what to do in the first place. or these days tank dont mark anymore.

So why complain .. learner dont watch video ...cos anyway at each big boss like that you still need to prepare and get ready .... what wrong in just saying hey dont forgot do that or in many party i had the tank had a macro that make sound to tell the other to get away like in CT for behemot at meteor

Me when i bought the game and read the TOS ... there was nothing wrote on the box :Requirements : Youtube app to know the fight .... and in the TOS there is nothing wrote on it : You have to look Youtube to know the fight or you will get Banned