The MSQ Endwalker Trial Bosses are WAY too hard for newer players to FFXIV

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Normal mode raids used to have enrage timers.

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That they did. The only one I can recall ever running into was with Brute Justice. Got wiped by that enrage more than once in normal mode.

Normal trials have enrage sometimes though. Final boss of ShB did. Final boss of EW does.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I'll bite. What exactly is difficult? Unless you have a physical limitation which is incredibly unfortunate, there's nothing, literally nothing about the MSQ that is difficult. 90% of the MSQ is walking around and talking and the other 10% is either solo events that have a difficulty selection and are made as simple as possible or running through dungeons/trials that you can be easily carried through.

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Not exactly, unless having pretty poor eyesight (partially sighted in my right eye and long-sighted in my left, which impacts my hand-eye coordination to some degree) counts. And age isn't really on my side either - my reflexes, atop my hand-eye coordination issues, are not what they once were. However, I'm not generally one to complain about this rather longstanding issue which is why I didn't bring it up in the thread I created to discuss my struggle with aspects of the MSQ. I mean, despite hitting a wall a few times I have, somehow, managed to blunder my way through to the start of Endwalker.

That aside, I am pretty bad at the game and I do dislike the fact that, by some player's standards, it isn't okay to not have reached a certain standard by the time one reaches the level I'm at.

Which is again an unfortunate situation, but by general standards the game is easy. They can't build the game around every situation because if you make the game too simple you run risk of making people bored. That actually already happens with ARR with people getting bored before reaching level 30.

I don't really think its fair to bring in those situations either. I have pretty significant hearing loss in one ear, but I don't go to a FPS game forums and complain that the footsteps are too quiet and need to be made louder so I can hear enemies sneaking up on me. That would be unfair to the general balance of the game and to other players.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Which is again an unfortunate situation, but by general standards the game is easy. They can't build the game around every situation because if you make the game too simple you run risk of making people bored. That actually already happens with ARR with people getting bored before reaching level 30.

I don't really think its fair to bring in those situations either. I have pretty significant hearing loss in one ear, but I don't go to a FPS game forums and complain that the footsteps are too quiet and need to be made louder so I can hear enemies sneaking up on me. That would be unfair to the general balance of the game and to other players.

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I'm not asking for any adjustments to be made to the game. I agree - catering to a minority in that fashion wouldn't be of benefit to the majority.

However, I do still maintain that I dislike the idea that there is some fixed standard that players are supposed to have achieved by a certain point in the game. It seems as if the fact that my 'sprout' disappeared a few days ago means I am now supposed to be good at the game by default despite the fact that the absence of said sprout doesn't tell anyone anything about how long I've actually been playing.

Its a fair assumption though. The sprout is removed after 170 hours or after reaching a specific point in the story, which is usually after the first quest of current expansion. Either way, unless you turn it off manually players at that point have had over 100 hours of play time at that point and should have some level of competence. Again, your situation is the exception, but the general assumption should be acceptable for the general standard of play, especially since the game itself progressively teaches you each new mechanic throughout the expansions dungeons and trials within the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

I'm not asking for any adjustments to be made to the game. I agree - catering to a minority in that fashion wouldn't be of benefit to the majority.

However, I do still maintain that I dislike the idea that there is some fixed standard that players are supposed to have achieved by a certain point in the game. It seems as if the fact that my 'sprout' disappeared a few days ago means I am now supposed to be good at the game by default despite the fact that the absence of said sprout doesn't tell anyone anything about how long I've actually been playing.

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As unfortunate as your circumstances are, they are specific to you and not the norm. The majority of players will not share these afflictions, so they are held to a standard that isn’t even that unreasonable. People don’t expect orange-parse level play in standard content. They expect a modicum of effort. I’ve been around for a while, and a lot of the complaints like the one in this thread do not come from a genuine standpoint of a player with disabilities or afflictions that are struggling. They come from players who expect everything to be “press X and instantly win”, and they will cry and stomp their feet when content is not nerfed to cater to their lack of desire to put forth effort to clear.

For the vast majority of players, once they no longer have a sprout, yes, they are expected to have a basic understanding of the game. They’re 80 levels and 100+ hours in. This isn’t a lofty standard.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The majority of players will not share these afflictions, so they are held to a standard that isn’t even that unreasonable. People don’t expect orange-parse level play in standard content. They expect a modicum of effort.

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"hi first time" is literally a 100% effective bad-performance pass. You can complete the MSQ and no one will really judge you for getting carried your first time through, sprout icon or no.

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Originally Posted by SyphinAes

"hi first time" is literally a 100% effective bad-performance pass. You can complete the MSQ and no one will really judge you for getting carried your first time through, sprout icon or no.

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Mmm, it ultimately depends. “First time” won’t excuse a player in higher level content that doesn’t know their rotation or who is partially AFK. The most it can really excuse is deaths and mechanical errors. I’m fairly patient when it comes to people who say they are new to a dungeon or alliance raid or whatever—as long as I can see that they are trying. But I have had people say “first time”, and then proceed to barely do anything. AFK healers jumping in place or running back and forth for extended periods of time, DPS or tanks basically auto-attacking and not even doing a rotation. Heck, I’ve even had tanks in dungeons not even tank, and instead the DPS and healer do most of the tanking.

“First time” only excuses so much. It’s not a 100% bad performance pass.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The pre-Endwalker game has also one problem, that if you have enemy contact, then you always solve it via killing the enemies. Endwalker is the first expansion, where there are some missions, which you can only solve by avoiding enemies. And some players seem to be overhelmed by it because they have never done it before. But it is not only a FF14 problem. In maaaany other games the players are very unhappy when they are suddenly in a not usual environment. You had the same in WoW WotLK in an instance called The Oculus. The last boss was a flying dragon and you had to ride a friendly dragon to kill him. The dragon, you got, disabled your class abilities but gave you some new abilities. And you had to navigate in 3D because you could fly up and down. And the players hated this instance sooo much. Because riding the dragon was so different. They demanded in the forums, that this instance should be removed from the random pool of the dungeon finder. And it was normal, that if you landed in this instance via the dungeon finder, then from 5 players 3 players immediately left. Blizzard has never made such instances again.


Cheers

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So, they nerfed the Occulus boss. And people still abandoned.
Then they doubled the valor points (basically tomestone) rewards from the dungeon. And people still abandoned.
Then they added a unique mount, that only dropped from that dungeon. And people still abandoned.
Then they nerfed the boss AGAIN. And people still abandoned.
And then it was Cataclysm, and no one ever had to run the Occulus ever again.

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Originally Posted by SyphinAes

"hi first time" is literally a 100% effective bad-performance pass. You can complete the MSQ and no one will really judge you for getting carried your first time through, sprout icon or no.

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I will partially agree, but it depends on what level the content is.

If we're talking level 90 stuff, and the person is making zero effort after multiple pulls to follow the group/dodge mechanics, then there is no pass given. If they are actually trying to dodge, their rotation be damned, then I'll be a lot more lenient.