Please scale the difficulty of Royal Menagerie

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Echo won't keep people from falling off the platform or failing the QTE.

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Thats kinda what i was getting at when Talera said the adjustment they would make would be on the damage. Not to mention the fact that an inclusion of The Echo is all but inevitable, so what more changes do we need? But your comment is honestly part of the reason why i dont think they should do any nerfing at all on this fight. Once you start tweaking attack pattern, knockback distance, attack timing... eventually you might as well build a new fight. Ive been in the "No Nerfs" camp since the beginning. Before i did the fight when i heard all these horror stories, i was excited to try my hand at the "impossible trial to end the MSQ". When i was putting together my PF clear group and the vets were all joking about how we'd lose 6 people from the first tidal wave, i was excited to try the fight. When we failed to clear on the first attempt(failed at about 30%), i was excited to try again and fix some of the mistakes id made(i went in blind). When we failed the second pull(under 5%), i was excited that we were clearly going to finish. When we cleared it on pull 3 i was happy that the fight was not only a bit difficult, but also "hard". I beat the thing that everyone(like 4-8 very vocal people more likely) on the boards was complaining couldnt be beaten.

When i read these threads now and i hear Moro's story about doing the fight with only 1 functional healer and tank it seems obvious to me that the fight doesnt need to be touched. When i read stories like Galgaron's about how much he felt like he accomplished in improving enough to clear the fight(and all it took was a few wipes), all i can think is why would we want to take that away from future players? In my perfect world, this fight doesnt get adjusted at all(beyond the echo they will inevitably add so why fight it). It keeps being difficult but not obscene - like it is now. And it keeps its reputation as a super hard fight. So new players can feel like they accomplished something too when they clear it. Victory without challenge is kinda hollow.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I'm sorry, as much as I appreciate and support your stance on helping new players I just don't think this adjustment will do what you're looking for without also making this fight the biggest faceroll when you have a few experienced people.

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I dunno, you get a really together group and it's kind of faceroll now. It's still hella fun. I love this fight. I can just put myself into the shoes of the new players I teach and while it's great when we succeed, it's depressing when their frustration over getting hit back to back with mechanics makes them just give up. That's why I support a change that will help with that. And that will alleviate the frustration in other experienced players so they stick around to help.

To the one who mentioned the Echo, yes, the Echo will eventually come and just like overgearing will make this easier. But that isn't helping the new people who might be stuck now. And we all got a taste of that recently with Raubahn and Pippin Savage.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I hope I get you as a cohealer for Trial Roulette some day soon!

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Me too!

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I dunno, you get a really together group and it's kind of faceroll now. It's still hella fun. I love this fight. I can just put myself into the shoes of the new players I teach and while it's great when we succeed, it's depressing when their frustration over getting hit back to back with mechanics makes them just give up. That's why I support a change that will help with that. And that will alleviate the frustration in other experienced players so they stick around to help.

To the one who mentioned the Echo, yes, the Echo will eventually come and just like overgearing will make this easier. But that isn't helping the new people who might be stuck now. And we all got a taste of that recently with Raubahn and Pippin Savage.

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I don't know if it's really all that fair to compare RM with server overload.

There's literally nothing you can do except cross your fingers if the servers are flooded with players and preventing new instances from forming. But you can practise the mechanics in RM, or ask for help. Even if you have a huge issue remembering the mechanics (though I would wager if this is the case, you'd have problems with more than just RM) and nobody will help you, there's still a pretty fair chance at this point that the group you join will have enough people who know what they're doing/have the gear to drag you through the fight despite your own limitations.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Echo won't keep people from falling off the platform or failing the QTE.

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You know you have it 10 times easier than before right? First of all when Titan was out, when you fell down, you coulnd't be raised. Now you don't lose HP anymore when you die either, you jjust lose the other stats.
Plus it's been killed by 4 people ages ago, that should say something.

It's not that hard, go find a decent group to carry you and you'll finish it if you're dead on the floor the entire time... I went in with my fc as a summoner ( I can only pull like 2k dps as a summon hint: thats so low im basically using my dots only) and still finished ti easily. Find and fc or linkshell with people who are ok with pulling you through it, or start a party finder.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Thats kinda what i was getting at when Talera said the adjustment they would make would be on the damage. Not to mention the fact that an inclusion of The Echo is all but inevitable, so what more changes do we need? But your comment is honestly part of the reason why i dont think they should do any nerfing at all on this fight. Once you start tweaking attack pattern, knockback distance, attack timing... eventually you might as well build a new fight. Ive been in the "No Nerfs" camp since the beginning. Before i did the fight when i heard all these horror stories, i was excited to try my hand at the "impossible trial to end the MSQ". When i was putting together my PF clear group and the vets were all joking about how we'd lose 6 people from the first tidal wave, i was excited to try the fight. When we failed to clear on the first attempt(failed at about 30%), i was excited to try again and fix some of the mistakes id made(i went in blind). When we failed the second pull(under 5%), i was excited that we were clearly going to finish. When we cleared it on pull 3 i was happy that the fight was not only a bit difficult, but also "hard". I beat the thing that everyone(like 4-8 very vocal people more likely) on the boards was complaining couldnt be beaten.

When i read these threads now and i hear Moro's story about doing the fight with only 1 functional healer and tank it seems obvious to me that the fight doesnt need to be touched. When i read stories like Galgaron's about how much he felt like he accomplished in improving enough to clear the fight(and all it took was a few wipes), all i can think is why would we want to take that away from future players? In my perfect world, this fight doesnt get adjusted at all(beyond the echo they will inevitably add so why fight it). It keeps being difficult but not obscene - like it is now. And it keeps its reputation as a super hard fight. So new players can feel like they accomplished something too when they clear it. Victory without challenge is kinda hollow.

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So much this. Great post Frizze.

I posted at SB launch in a similar complaining thread to this that, in all honestly, Royal Menagerie is the best Story Mode fight that they have added to the game and Square-Enix did a fantastic job with it imo. You can't please everyone and of course there will always be those who want the story mode to be unbelievably easy or filled with faceroll content because 'why learn strat/learn2dps/learn2dodge'? We get these types of thread every single time they add a duty trial/fight which requires more than just the usual "DPS hard & dodge AOE's" strategy; Steps of Faith and The Chrysalis are the two I remember people complaining about the most... I took a break before Final Steps and while it was annoying, I still cleared that one with relative ease when I returned.

In the coming weeks RM will start getting much easier as everyone starts to outgear it slightly, so hopefully these types of threads will be posted much less often. Not every new fight needs nerfing, people just need to practice and try to learn like we have all had to in the course of this game; learning to play your character/job and how the fight works is supposed to be part of the fun of the game and yeah there should be a sense of accomplishment for beating fights like this. I know it can be frustrating but there are a multitude of ways people can help themselves now too; google the fight strats which are posted over on the FFXIV wiki and check out the ever informative youtube guides; while not necessarily helping you to clear first time, the youtube vids can be good for learning what mechanics to expect and character positioning. If you don't want to do either of those, and want to go in blind then that is also fine too, but be prepared that not everything is, or should be zergable.

I cleared RM in my second group and it was honestly a whole lot of fun, of course there were many scary moments where it was looking like a wipe but we all worked together and we pulled it off.... and it felt so good to beat it. I then helped my sister to clear it the following day and she also required two groups. Sometimes the df grouping just isn't favourable but there ARE people out there who are willing to help new players and the party finder is a good place to start.

Honestly? Once you complete it you will realise that it doesn't actually need nerfing.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Thats kinda what i was getting at when Talera said the adjustment they would make would be on the damage. Not to mention the fact that an inclusion of The Echo is all but inevitable, so what more changes do we need? But your comment is honestly part of the reason why i dont think they should do any nerfing at all on this fight. Once you start tweaking attack pattern, knockback distance, attack timing... eventually you might as well build a new fight. Ive been in the "No Nerfs" camp since the beginning. Before i did the fight when i heard all these horror stories, i was excited to try my hand at the "impossible trial to end the MSQ". When i was putting together my PF clear group and the vets were all joking about how we'd lose 6 people from the first tidal wave, i was excited to try the fight. When we failed to clear on the first attempt(failed at about 30%), i was excited to try again and fix some of the mistakes id made(i went in blind). When we failed the second pull(under 5%), i was excited that we were clearly going to finish. When we cleared it on pull 3 i was happy that the fight was not only a bit difficult, but also "hard". I beat the thing that everyone(like 4-8 very vocal people more likely) on the boards was complaining couldnt be beaten.

When i read these threads now and i hear Moro's story about doing the fight with only 1 functional healer and tank it seems obvious to me that the fight doesnt need to be touched. When i read stories like Galgaron's about how much he felt like he accomplished in improving enough to clear the fight(and all it took was a few wipes), all i can think is why would we want to take that away from future players? In my perfect world, this fight doesnt get adjusted at all(beyond the echo they will inevitably add so why fight it). It keeps being difficult but not obscene - like it is now. And it keeps its reputation as a super hard fight. So new players can feel like they accomplished something too when they clear it. Victory without challenge is kinda hollow.

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I see your point but..

If the majority of fails is due to falling off then an echo buff or over-gearing would not make this fight any easier unless people are dying on the DPS checks. Which is why I recommended adding group synergy moves to mitigate falling off, rather than the current individual blame game. Sure overgear would make the fight take less time and deal with less mechanics, but then if most mechanics can be bypassed or ignored due to power creep. I would argue the fight still ended up being easier in the end.

If new group mechanics were added they would not require a brand new fight since we already have a bunch of re-used mechanics in fights now. If anything, it would make future content more dummy proof and require less work if any introduced mechanics had a clear information tell.

While the low man hero stories are exciting and show something is not impossible. It also is not an indicator that a content is too easy. There was Red Mage named Avesta in FFXI that could solo things that would require a full alliance normally. Which I learned to do often as I got better at the game. But that doesn't mean everyone can. I had a red mage friend in XI who could not beat his level cap job quest no matter how many times he tried. He rage quit and several months later I asked him to level Samurai to beat Maat. Two weeks later he got Sam level capped and beat Maat on his first try with my advice.

Just because something can be done, doesn't mean everyone can do the same thing.

That said, I don't think this fight is too difficult and can be overcome. The question is can everyone complete the MSQ before that point comes where they just say screw it and eject to a different game.

THese brand new mechanics would have to be coded into the game, taking many hours of manpower to code and test. Not worth it just because you're trying to fix something thats not broken. The mechanics in RM are pretty simple overall, you can stand i nsome stuff and survive ok. You can die repeatedly and the group will still make it through ok.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

I see your point but..

If the majority of fails is due to falling off then an echo buff or over-gearing would not make this fight any easier unless people are dying on the DPS checks. Which is why I recommended adding group synergy moves to mitigate falling off, rather than the current individual blame game. Sure overgear would make the fight take less time and deal with less mechanics, but then if most mechanics can be bypassed or ignored due to power creep. I would argue the fight still ended up being easier in the end.

If new group mechanics were added they would not require a brand new fight since we already have a bunch of re-used mechanics in fights now. If anything, it would make future content more dummy proof and require less work if any introduced mechanics had a clear information tell.

That said, I don't think this fight is too difficult and can be overcome. The question is can everyone complete the MSQ before that point comes where they just say screw it and eject to a different game.

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This fight has obvious tells to the mechanics. The tidal wave gives you time to move to safety. The aero has the green ring in the center. The fly over has the GIGANTIC aoe marker. The tail smash has an arrow over someone's head. The fire has a castbar + the odd puddle on the stage. Its not the healers or the tanks or the dps' job to keep derps from falling off the stage. If you pay attention, you won't get knocked off- its really that easy. As it is many of the new fights (including this one!) are already dummy proof in the sense that multiple deaths do not inherently equal a wipe.


According to famitsu 89% of new players beat RM their first run. The fight doesn't need adjusting, people just need to actually be awake at the wheel.