Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

F4 F4 F4 T3p SC F4 B3 is bad because you will drop AF3 and will have the long cast for B3. Aikaal's solution with Transpose is that you immediately do it after T3p, during the GCD.
This doesn't work in practice though, because you will have use F1 before the first F4 since B3 -> F3 the AF3 cuts into the GCD because of the lower cast time of F3.

Looks like you'll need around a 2.2 GCD to do F3 F4 F4 F4 F4. 2.25 GCD get F3 F4 F4 F4 F4 slow B3.

Also RIP BLM this tier IMO. Like holy moly, this is gonna be 2.2 SMN vs BLM probably. That's just my day 1 impression but come on ... look at what normal mode makes us do. Even Sephirot Extreme is like, why play BLM?

My thoughts exactly Sleigh when i seen smn getting a buff..... again. I wonder how close to St damage they will be now.
I don't think they will be close to us but come on now.....
Kind of have been tired of hearing smn this, smn that, lol

If Fiend is really Screw BLM: The Trial then I will be sad.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Looks like you'll need around a 2.2 GCD to do F3 F4 F4 F4 F4. 2.25 GCD get F3 F4 F4 F4 F4 slow B3.

Also RIP BLM this tier IMO. Like holy moly, this is gonna be 2.2 SMN vs BLM probably. That's just my day 1 impression but come on ... look at what normal mode makes us do. Even Sephirot Extreme is like, why play BLM?

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Went through A5-8 on BLM earlier today and I can say that it's not too bad. A5 is fine outside of having to turn into a bird, but everyone has to do that. A6 is great for BLM from what I see, a fight separated into short distinct burst phases. The cyclone pushback thingy is a real pain though. A7 seems terrible at first for BLM, but most of the moment involved in that fight can be played around with some creative, economical (and slightly silly) slidecasting. A8 doesn't require too much movement outside of breaks between phases where you won't be DPSing anyway.

Considering most almost clear videos i have seen of Sephirot is rolling with double blm/brd... I dont think it can be as bad as some are saying.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Looks like you'll need around a 2.2 GCD to do F3 F4 F4 F4 F4. 2.25 GCD get F3 F4 F4 F4 F4 slow B3.

Also RIP BLM this tier IMO. Like holy moly, this is gonna be 2.2 SMN vs BLM probably. That's just my day 1 impression but come on ... look at what normal mode makes us do. Even Sephirot Extreme is like, why play BLM?

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Did we time warp back to 3.0? lol. This sounds like the exact same thing from then once everyone got used to the fights, BLM was fine/better.

I realize it's an opinion that those on the BLM thread probably won't readily agree with but that's just how I'm seeing it, based on dummy numbers and mechanical duties (assuming certain things because I've only seen A5S). SMN is just a little better right now; the ST gap is lessened, and there's finally a tier since SCoB where you have to move a lot (especially in progression).

From my time in A5S I can say BLM would be very good in there, but SMN is a better mechanics scapegoat. That and DoT snapshotting, and Deathflaring the snakes. Why take the riskier option outside of enjoying BLM more?

Small stealth buff I noticed is enochian being somewhat more lenient with timings now. I have even seen the enochian buff drop from my bar and Blizzard IV cast still go off.

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Originally Posted by myonko

Small stealth buff I noticed is enochian being somewhat more lenient with timings now. I have even seen the enochian buff drop from my bar and Blizzard IV cast still go off.

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I noticed this exact same thing myself. It's incredibly noticeable

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Originally Posted by myonko

Small stealth buff I noticed is enochian being somewhat more lenient with timings now. I have even seen the enochian buff drop from my bar and Blizzard IV cast still go off.

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u mean like all the way off? Not 1 hitting 0 with icon still up, but like Wind and Venom Bite falling off all the way and iron jaws still resetting them right after.

I saw an Enochian drop-off > B4 hits today as well. Maybe it snapshots a little earlier with that AF/UI/proc change that happened? Hopefully it's not a placebo effect.

I really don't feel a change with a ui extension but I do love the fact that the refreshes happen on cast now.

Another side effect is that you have to wait more after Transpose -> Mana Tick -> F3 to actually get a tick since AF3 will be acknowledged earlier than when it used to be.

Has anyone else noticed they time it takes to move cancel a cast has decreased as well? I used to be able to move at about .5-.6 seconds on a non-speed buff abilty and it would still cast. Now, its about .3 to .2 seconds. It could just be latency, but it feels very different.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I saw an Enochian drop-off > B4 hits today as well. Maybe it snapshots a little earlier with that AF/UI/proc change that happened? Hopefully it's not a placebo effect.

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I just saw it. Felt like i had more leeway than iron jaws o.o.

Overall BLM casts are feeling buttery smooth now.

The reason why progression groups will stick with BLM is because of Apoc. Summoners will never provide that support. :P I do feel BLM is screwed until they get the God spell speed tier to make the 12 seconds AF usable. Otherwise it's doesn't feel anything changed.

I'm really torn on what to do on A5S. My group couldn't get past the Hummelfaust (best attempt was 10%). I've tried several rotation (double thunder start FireIV, Double thunder double flare, double thunder Fire and keep my CDs for Hummelfaust, the normal single target roation). I just don't know what I should do especially because my groups parsers didn't work. I'm afraid I could be the problem because of my opener on those 2 Faust.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

F4 F4 F4 T3p SC F4 B3 is bad because you will drop AF3 and will have the long cast for B3. Aikaal's solution with Transpose is that you immediately do it after T3p, during the GCD.
This doesn't work in practice though, because you will have use F1 before the first F4 since B3 -> F3 the AF3 cuts into the GCD because of the lower cast time of F3.

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I was talking about when we get enough spellspeed to do it.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

Another side effect is that you have to wait more after Transpose -> Mana Tick -> F3 to actually get a tick since AF3 will be acknowledged earlier than when it used to be.

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I haven't noticed any of that. Feels like the UI just lasts longer and the F3 kicks in at the same time as before.

I can vouch for the butter smooth casts and extended leeway on refreshing Enochian, though I'm sadhappy they did this in a tier with so much movement. 3.2 solidified my switch from WAR main to BLM main, and I've been having a blast. I do have a question though, Reddit has noticed a ton of problems with openers that require a certian PIE value being unexecutable now without even more PIE than before. Has anybody noticed this? I've noticed that on my recast of Enochian, I'm left without enough mp to cast B4 immediately in ice phase, which is really annoying. I think this is because it's now impossible to get an extra mp tick after the mp for Fire III has been drained, as the AF buff applies at the same time now.

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Originally Posted by daman4567

I can vouch for the butter smooth casts and extended leeway on refreshing Enochian, though I'm sadhappy they did this in a tier with so much movement. I've noticed that on my recast of Enochian, I'm left without enough mp to cast B4 immediately in ice phase, which is really annoying. I think this is because it's now impossible to get an extra mp tick after the mp for Fire III has been drained, as the AF buff applies at the same time now.

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Yeah the casts are much much easier to hit the full casts on. Sadly I still can't get any extras in aside from the occasional T3P.
I didn't notice the B4 thing yesterday. I had no problems hitting the full combo.

The only problem is Sephirot is going to be a giant pain for BLM. The second half of the fight is constant spell cancellation due to movement to not get knocked off the edge. You'll basically be limited to attacking with T3Ps ;_;

I am curious as to how people are optimizing their melding for patch 3.2 gear. For example, what are you going for first with your tomestones of lore and what are you melding to your gear. Just looking for advice or tips as this patch, I want to try new things. I have the relic but the increase in damage made up for the lack in spell speed (love seeing 7k+ critical hits on F4 without RS, buffs, or pots). I see a lot of BLM gear with determination. Currently, I have ~588 DET with relic and I hit pretty hard, but I want to know what is the DET hate on BLM gear? I searched around everywhere and I'm not finding any conclusive answer. Lastly, I want to know if there are any current BLM stat weights out? I know spell speed is still a top priority next to INT/WD, or at least this is what I was told, but can someone link me to places where I can go to read more into these things or can someone explain these things to me. I would be extremely grateful.

I will be going with boots and then maybe chest, followed by weapon.
Spell speed, spell speed and spell speed, and some crit ;)
Spell Speed>Crit> Det
2.X Det in my opinion was of higher value then crit, and that s why my zeta had full spell speed and det, but now crit is of more value then determination
And Yes WD is always top for dps

I tried out BLM today and timings felt so much better I also got fast mana ticks almost every ice phase I had no clue when you use thunder besides when sharpcast was up.

I've got a few questions and it'd be great if someone could help me.

Whats the best rotation on 2 targets (A5S, the 2 Fausts)?

Is FireIVx4 better than F4 F4 F1 F4 F4? If RS and Convert aren't up I can perform FireIV x4 under leylines. (granted I don't need to move)

Sharpcast always for fire in single target yes? But what if sharpcast is up and I'm doing the FireIVx4 rotation under leylines? Assuming I don't even need leylines for the FireIV x4 roation, for what would I use sharpcast for since I don't have a fire anymore?

@Cherub:

1. if theres less than 3-4 enemies I focus on one and do my single target rotation

2. Sorry I don't know, would have to test that out and see which one gives you more dps

3. I always use sharpcast in combination with enochian. Their cooldowns align nicely so they are always up together. So basically whenever I need to recast enochian I do Sharp > Fire3 > Fire1 > Enochian > Fire4 > Fire4 > Fire3 (proc) > Fire4 > Fire4 > Blizz3

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

@Cherub:

1. if theres less than 3-4 enemies I focus on one and do my single target rotation

2. Sorry I don't know, would have to test that out and see which one gives you more dps

3. I always use sharpcast in combination with enochian. Their cooldowns align nicely so they are always up together. So basically whenever I need to recast enochian I do Sharp > Fire1 > Enochian > Fire4 > Fire4 > Fire3 (proc) > Fire4 > Fire4 > Blizz3

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If you do sharp-F1 from B3, would you have enough MP for a 5th F4? I'm going to have to see, it'd be nice for an extra spell in AF3 in the first enochian if convert isn't up.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

If you do sharp-F1 from B3, would you have enough MP for a 5th F4? I'm going to have to see, it'd be nice for an extra spell in AF3 in the first enochian if convert isn't up.

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Yes, you have enough mana to do 5xF4 if you start fire with FS proc. Can't remember from the top of my head, but it might require PIE buff.

On another note, any accuracy info for Midas savage yet?

re: the above sharp-f1 scenario, is it the same kind of scenario for sharp-f1-eno from the original guide? I don't really know how to calculate the math but is it essentially saying go from ui3 to af1 (f1 cast) and cast 2x f4 in Af1 before f3p brings you to af3 and then continue? and that is more potency than going into af3 first? I'm not doubting it if that is the case, it is just not something ever considered trying and I wanted to clarify the example in my head.

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Originally Posted by Tsilyi

re: the above sharp-f1 scenario, is it the same kind of scenario for sharp-f1-eno from the original guide? I don't really know how to calculate the math but is it essentially saying go from ui3 to af1 (f1 cast) and cast 2x f4 in Af1 before f3p brings you to af3 and then continue? and that is more potency than going into af3 first? I'm not doubting it if that is the case, it is just not something ever considered trying and I wanted to clarify the example in my head.

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Let's find out together!

First Rotation: (assumes you have to start with UI w/ no PIE buff)
F3(120)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F1(324)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=2700 potency
Second Rotation (same assumption)
F1(90)-F4(420)-F4(420)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3042 potency

Counter Intuitively, to me anyway, it seems better to AF1 the first two F4s than to start with F3. I'm not going to calculate PPS.

hm...thanks! that is very interesting and informative :)

nevermind****

sry to have confused you, of course I do not cast my F4s without AF3 buff, I simply forgot to type the first F3 in my rotation. I'll edit my post above to fix this.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Let's find out together!

First Rotation: (assumes you have to start with UI w/ no PIE buff)
F3(120)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F1(324)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=2700 potency
Second Rotation (same assumption)
F1(90)-F4(420)-F4(420)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3042 potency

Counter Intuitively, to me anyway, it seems better to AF1 the first two F4s than to start with F3. I'm not going to calculate PPS.

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Originally Posted by Lelila38

sry to have confused you, of course I do not cast my F4s without AF3 buff, I simply forgot to type the first F3 in my rotation. I'll edit my post above to fix this.

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Ahh let's try again then:

First Rotation: (assumes you have to start with UI w/ no PIE buff)
F3(120)-F1(324)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3060 potency
Second Rotation (same assumption)
F1(090)-F4(420)-F4(420)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3042 potency

Shoot and we were so close too ;_; Basically it doesn't matter, but the former is superior. I'm sad we experimented and didn't find a better non-Ley Lines "opener".
We still have enough time for one more spell, it's just too bad there's no MP to use it.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

F1(090)-F4(420)-F4(420)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3042 potency

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AF1 F4 is 392, AF1 F3 336 is and UI3(?) F1 is 126. That wouldn't work anyway, as F1 puts you at a neutral state from any UI.

Refresher:
UI1 - 32% mana regen, -10% fire damage, -50% fire mana costs
UI2 - 47% mana regen, -20% fire damage, -75% fire mana costs
UI3 - 62% mana regen, -30% fire damage, -75% fire mana costs, +100% fire cast speed

AF1 - 0% mana regen, -10% ice damage, -50% ice mana costs, +40% fire damage, + 100% fire mana costs
AF2 - 0% mana regen, -20% ice damage, -75% ice mana costs, +60% fire damage, + 100% fire mana costs
AF3 - 0% mana regen, -30% ice damage, -75% ice mana costs, +80% fire damage, + 100% fire mana costs, +100% ice cast speed

B1, B2, F1 and F2 returns you to neutral first from their opposite states of any size. F3, B3 and Flare always give full stack.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Ahh let's try again then:

First Rotation: (assumes you have to start with UI w/ no PIE buff)
F3(120)-F1(324)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3060 potency
Second Rotation (same assumption)
F1(090)-F4(420)-F4(420)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3042 potency

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2nd rotation wouldn't work, casting F1 in UI doesn't put you in AF1.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

AF1 F4 is 392, AF1 F3 336 is and UI3(?) F1 is 126. That wouldn't work anyway, as F1 puts you at a neutral state from any UI.

Refresher:
UI1 - 30% mana regen, -10% fire damage, -50% fire mana costs
UI2 - 45% mana regen, -20% fire damage, -75% fire mana costs
UI3 - 60% mana regen, -30% fire damage, -75% fire mana costs, +100% fire cast speed

AF1 - 0% mana regen, -10% ice damage, -50% ice mana costs, +40% fire damage, + 100% fire mana costs
AF2 - 0% mana regen, -20% ice damage, -75% ice mana costs, +60% fire damage, + 100% fire mana costs
AF3 - 0% mana regen, -30% ice damage, -75% ice mana costs, +80% fire damage, + 100% fire mana costs, +100% ice cast speed

B1, B2, F1 and F2 returns you to neutral first from their opposite states of any size. F3, B3 and Flare always give full stack.

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Oh, I'm dumb. Also your post should be stickied as it's the only one place I've ever been able to find this information.
Except we could transpose but that would take new calculations with MP costs.
Is AF1 only 40%? I thought it was 50%. The 80% AF3 I used.
Also UI3 I thought was -50% fire damage. But there's nowhere in the game to actually verify the percentages of any of the UI or AF that I can find..

First Rotation: (assumes you have to start with UI w/ no PIE buff)
F3(168)-F1(324)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F3P(360)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3108 potency
Second Rotation (same assumption, but start with Transpose)
F1(252)-F4(448)-F4(448)-F3P(384)-F4(504)-F4(504)-F4(504)-B3(240)=3298 potency if there's enough MP to do it. But it'll be close I think. With a PIE buff you might be able to do it.

Should work. With PIE buff, I'm able to do FS F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 F4 B3 and have some 100 odd mana left. Quickly looking at that without any exceling, it could be better with instant mana tick, but worse if you have to wait for one. Transpose alone adds almost a second to the rotation, and if you're not at full mana, it instantly falls apart. Seems too unreliable.

Also, AF1-F1 is 252. The spell goes off before you get the buff, unless something broke with the timer adjustements this patch gave us.