I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

Healers will always have this sort of problems, unless you make a game without thee need for healers, (yes they exist and they work well)

Maybe they should swap Bloodwhetting and Thrill's bonus effects. So BW becomes 'you apply a shield to self, and you get 20% bonus hp restored, and take 10% less damage for 8 seconds, and 10% less again but for 4 seconds'. Meanwhile Thrill becomes 'your Max HP and Current HP is increased by 25%, and you restore HP on each attack'. Then it's at least kinda justified that you Bene yourself every time you AOE in a dungeon, it's a 2min CD

Just spitballing. Also yeh it's 100% ridiculous that Shake/Veil heal on application, and 150% that Shake has a HOT attached. What's next, standing in Passage of Arms grants a HOT ala Collective Unconscious?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

The other counter is "Jimmy Casual won't be able to clear!", ignoring that these same people are insisting that Jimmy Casual shouldn't be clearing hard content anyway, and when we're talking about Ultimates and Savages, it shouldn't matter; people should be able to use their healing buttons competently at that level. And for those saying they're bored even in 4 mans and 4 mans would have to play like Savages so THEY won't be bored - I'm sorry, that's just an inane argument, as they're never going to be engaging. If you find Spamming 3-4 attacks engaging (most AOE "rotations" in the game in general), that isn't far from spamming 1-2. MSQ stuff's always going to be easy and everyone just deals with it. WARs popping Bloodwhetting and then doing their 1-2 AOE rotation isn't that "engaging", either.

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If simply increasing the damage was the solution, then savage on farm would be a world better than 24 man. The reality is that once you have the pattern memorised and healing spreadsheeted, they are about as monotonous as each other.

Increasing fixed and predictable damage to the amount that would be required to actually pressure an experienced progression raider akin to an Elia or Fretty would be an shock for your average PF enjoyer. Thus it’s not really the solution *IMO*.

My prior post is probably the better way to go, more tank damage with more variance.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

What's next, standing in Passage of Arms grants a HOT ala Collective Unconscious?

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Nah, Passage will now apply any buff PLD has on to everyone in the party, including Hallowed Ground because why not?

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Maybe they should swap Bloodwhetting and Thrill's bonus effects. So BW becomes 'you apply a shield to self, and you get 20% bonus hp restored, and take 10% less damage for 8 seconds, and 10% less again but for 4 seconds'. Meanwhile Thrill becomes 'your Max HP and Current HP is increased by 25%, and you restore HP on each attack'. Then it's at least kinda justified that you Bene yourself every time you AOE in a dungeon, it's a 2min CD

Just spitballing. Also yeh it's 100% ridiculous that Shake/Veil heal on application, and 150% that Shake has a HOT attached. What's next, standing in Passage of Arms grants a HOT ala Collective Unconscious?

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I think that'd be more cracked than dark mind frankly. As funny as it would be to see the fallout, I'd rather not swing the pendulum that hard in that direction.

Someone better at numbers than me could probably give a more precise value, but I'd expect to nearly live tyrant's in 630 gear with just that new BW. 108k hp, ~180k hit unmitigated; 19% mitigation, bw brings the hp up to ~130k, call it 5k of shield should land you with about -10k hp, or -2k give or take if there's another 10% mit up. I think these numbers aren't quite right because I'm fairly sure it was survivable with bw + vengeance from around 75k in 630 gear, but according to this you'd only have 5k leeway which seems off. Maybe it hit for 150k unmitigated?

Thrill's also 90s, which is actually the same as bloodbath (30s uptime). I'm unconvinced colossal overheal for a shorter duration is something people would be at all happy with. Unless you're dark knight and the living dead complaints have finally been acknowledged.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

stuff

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The mit/shield on BW is already there, only the 20% Healing up would be new to it, so if you can live a TB now, you'd live it with this change (and vice versa), it'd only affect your surviveability if your healer was dedicated-Adlo'ing you, which... what

And I think you're right, it would be more cracked than Dark Mind in retrospect. Because a 90s CD would be up on every second pull in a dungeon (so you kitchen sink one, then Thrill the next, repeat), and if it's duration was to be longer to bring back the Bloodbath feeling, then it'd add up to be a larger amount of selfsustain in raids than we currently have, probably. It's an absolutely terrible idea and not one I'd ever want, but it'd be funny. Mostly because of the 'sky is falling' outcry that would slam reddit for a while

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Again, what is your issue with Healing in the game right now?

1) That Healers aren't needed?
2) That Healing is boring?
3) That DPSing on Healers is boring?

If your solution fixes (3), while your answer is (1), (2), or "all three", then your solution doesn't work.

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First things first: Boring vs. interesting is not binary. They exist on a scale. For the sake of discussion, let's say the scale is 0 (zero) to 10, so 5 is the exact middle. 100% boring is a zero, and 100% interesting is a ten. Now, as a matter of discourse, people tend to speak of boring vs. interesting as if it was binary. Anything less than 5 on this scale gets lumped into "boring," and anything greater than 5 gets lumped into "interesting."

(We can do the same thing for Unneeded vs. Needed.)

I don't know about others here, but I'm less concerned about finding solutions that push the sliders all the way to 10 (i.e., completely fixing these problems) and more interested in merely pushing the sliders closer to 10. For example, I'd almost certainly never give a DPS kit higher than a 5 on this scale, even for the actual DPS jobs, BLM excluded. That's a me thing; I recognize that. That said, I rate the current healer DPS kits as a 0-1, which I find worthy of complaint, whereas if they were a 4-5, while I would still call them boring when asked, I wouldn't go out of my way to remark on that.

In that light: I'd say that pretty much any theorycraft that's been posted that attempts to rework a healer's DPS kit addresses (3). I'd say that any proposal that seeks to make incoming damage less predictable addresses (2). And my hot take on (1) is that SE needs to stop relying on healer stacks and healer LB3 gimicks and instead build on the aforementioned solutions for (2) and (3).

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

The mit/shield on BW is already there, only the 20% Healing up would be new to it, so if you can live a TB now, you'd live it with this change (and vice versa), it'd only affect your surviveability if your healer was dedicated-Adlo'ing you, which... what

And I think you're right, it would be more cracked than Dark Mind in retrospect. Because a 90s CD would be up on every second pull in a dungeon (so you kitchen sink one, then Thrill the next, repeat), and if it's duration was to be longer to bring back the Bloodbath feeling, then it'd add up to be a larger amount of selfsustain in raids than we currently have, probably. It's an absolutely terrible idea and not one I'd ever want, but it'd be funny. Mostly because of the 'sky is falling' outcry that would slam reddit for a while

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Oh I’ve just realised I gave it both halves of thrill. That’s probably contributing to it a bit.