Live Letter Thoughts

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Then we shall have to agree to disagree. I believe my feedback is both honest and relevant. Respecting fans of the antagonist faction, and yes in this case that includes Zenos, by not being dismissive about their concerns and fleshing out their stories to a sufficient degree is both plausible and viable too. Using appropriate imagery for the late teen-adult playerbase is also something they should be doing instead of cartoons that feel like they talk at the player rather than with them.

I have no interest in seeing Loporrits dance over the place where we fought Zodiark, and I am reasonably concerned that Lahabrea might have his character reduced in such a way as to push the notion that the Ancients were set on the path of auto-destruction (despite clear and readily available evidence in game providing evidence to the contrary).

Nevertheless, complaints are a valuable part of feedback and crucial for the game to see continued improvement. You might agree with some and not others. That is simply the way of things.

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Wanna know something? You can also learn to admit when you have clear bias or strong opinions over something in the game AND understand that your opinions and ideas would probably not work for the greater good of the game.

I for one, would want some of the old school rpg elements be put back into current FFXIV such as TP or elemental attributes and cross class skills to give more flavor to combat, but guess what, I know these opinions I have are not good for the long term of the game and would be detrimental to the overall current experience where you get more frustration from the majority of the playerbase than the few who finds it appealing.

So yes, feel free to express your opinions. Its a free forum after all, but at least realize everything that you or I say should be taken as "this is how the game must be".

I remain unconvinced that picking up new characters in 6.1 would have been to the game's detriment especially when that patch's story had a lot of filler that could've been cut in order to move the action along. Using nuanced and mature storytelling would also probably be appreciated by more players especially those of us who take a deeper look at the story. I believe these things would be more appealing and less divisive overall, so I will continue to advocate for them.

If I have any bias is that I gravitate more towards what characters/settings are more fleshed out, with my frame of reference being the numerous single-player titles I've played in the past along with other media I've consumed. I will therefore hold FFXIV to a standard based off these things, especially if it wants to brand itself as a single player title in some respects. The solutions I have provided are conducive to doing that.

There is something to be said about this phenomenon we see in which players are resistant to outside suggestions that aren't explicitly sanctioned (even if later on they are). It is often discussed in relation to players who are so heavily invested in specifically WoW and its way of doing things that they reject positive and proven ideas that have worked in other game's even if it would be in their benefit.

It is possible FFXIV may have a similar scenario occurring, wherein certain players are unwilling to entertain discussions about things like new characters especially when even the fans of the scions are getting tired of them themselves, and other relevant issues pertaining to story, content, and gameplay. The fact that there are players who insist that Beastmaster could only be a limited job when even WoW's Hunter class is able to tame pets and participate in all content is something I struggle to wrap my head around. Why is there such insistence that it must fit the established paradigm in this game, rather than taking what works in another?

I believe that their frame of reference may play a part in this. If it is too limited, such as in the case of WoW players who are against some of the QoL improvements FFXIV has made over the years, then perhaps that is the reason why we are witnessing some of the reactions from people in this game here only the reverse scenario.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I remain unconvinced that picking up new characters in 6.1 would have been to the game's detriment especially when that patch's story had a lot of filler that could've been cut in order to move the action along. Using nuanced and mature storytelling would also probably be appreciated by more players especially those of us who take a deeper look at the story. I believe this would be more appealing and less divisive overall, so I will continue to advocate for them.

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Nobody argued that, the Fact and Point is they just simply didnt. You dont just add in characters just because, the story was written that adding a new party member just wasn't relevant to the narrative. Disagree with it all you want, but thats just how it is, and it didn't hurt the game. 6.1 is the START of the new journey, by design its filler & exposition to set things up.
They will tell their story how they want to tell it.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Nobody argued that, the Fact and Point is they just simply didnt. You dont just add in characters just because, the story was written that adding a new party member just wasn't relevant to the narrative. Disagree with it all you want, but thats just how it is, and it didn't hurt the game. 6.1 is the START of the new journey, by design its filler & exposition to set things up.
They will tell their story how they want to tell it.

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I remember recruiting Leliana quite early on in Dragon Age Origins, that was fun. Her character was then subsequently fleshed out as I played the game. It has been done before, to great effect, and I see no reason why FFXIV could not have done something similar in 6.1.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Yeah but....when you have such odd takes like complaining about the "image of Final Fantasy XIV" and now complaining about Lopporits dancing (which obviously is playing into the next set of Hildibrand quests which that thing is appropriate for and ALSO A REFERENCE to the dancers in FFIV, and also this doesnt even matter in the grand scheme of things to cause players to unsubscribe to the game) then we as a community also need to discuss and look back into whatever feedback we give that's considered actually plausible and viable. You cant forever hide your nitpicks and complaints as good feedback.

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I always thought the lopporits were gonna part of the new BT as tavern wenches :p

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I remain unconvinced that picking up new characters in 6.1 would have been to the game's detriment especially when that patch's story had a lot of filler that could've been cut in order to move the action along. Using nuanced and mature storytelling would also probably be appreciated by more players especially those of us who take a deeper look at the story. I believe these things would be more appealing and less divisive overall, so I will continue to advocate for them.

If I have any bias is that I gravitate more towards what characters/settings are more fleshed out, with my frame of reference being the numerous single-player titles I've played in the past along with other media I've consumed. I will therefore hold FFXIV to a standard based off these things, especially if it wants to brand itself as a single player title in some respects. The solutions I have provided are conducive to doing that.

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and yet it feels like you're trying to find solutions to issues you deem need to be "fixed" when they really dont. Maturity? This game already has plenty of that. Characters and settings that are fleshed out? Yup that as well.

Honestly the best thing the devs should do is to continue providing more with what we already have. My standards for this game is to see it continue to improve the basic foundations it laid with its story and gameplay. Not shift directions when there really isnt a need to make this game into something that isnt FFXIV. It always sounds like you want this game to be another game entirely and this is where I clash with your viewpoints. Those arent "standards" those are full on opinions.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

and yet it feels like you're trying to find solutions to issues you deem need to be "fixed" when they really dont. Maturity? This game already has plenty of that. Characters and settings that are fleshed out? Yup that as well.

Honestly the best thing the devs should do is to continue providing more with what we already have. My standards for this game is to see it continue to improve the basic foundations it laid with its story and gameplay. Not shift directions when there really isnt a need to make this game into something that isnt FFXIV. It always sounds like you want this game to be another game entirely and this is where I clash with your viewpoints. Those arent "standards" those are full on opinions.

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I expect for characters to evolve in meaningful ways by way of growth, loss, change, or death. The scions did not provide this to a sufficient degree in Endwalker, and in some cases showed regression rather than progression. To then have these characters tell everyone else to forge ahead based off trauma that they either suffered so long ago or show no lasting impact from did not have the intended impact they thought they were going for.

The maturity of Endwalker was tainted irreparably by the extended focus on slice of life and humour. There is a time and place for such things, the expansion about an apocalypse wasn't the best place for them, certainly not to this degree. It feels that FFXIV shifted from a high fantasy game in Shadowbringers to one that struggles with its identity in Endwalker. This wasn't in the best interest of those of us who wanted to see the themes and setting of the game done justice. Hence why some of us take issues with the Loporrits dancing atop Zodiark's resting place, a coffee shop being opened in Ultima Thule, and the infamous burger scene.

I want FFXIV to be FFXIV. A high quality fantasy game with excellent storytelling. I believe this was accomplished in Heavensward and Shadowbringers. I would like to see it meet or exceed the standards of those two expansions at the bare minimum moving forward.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I expect for characters to evolve in meaningful ways by way of growth, loss, change, or death. The scions did not provide this to a sufficient degree in Endwalker, and in some cases showed regression rather than progression. To then have these characters tell everyone else to forge ahead based off trauma that they either suffered so long ago or show no lasting impact did not have the intended impact they thought they were going for.

The maturity of Endwalker was tainted irreparably by the extended focus on slice of life and humour. There is a time and place for such things, the expansion about an apocalypse wasn't the best place for them, certainly not to this degree. It feels that FFXIV shifted from a high fantasy game in Shadowbringers to one that struggles with its identity in Endwalker. This wasn't in the best interest of those of us who wanted to see the themes and setting of the game done justice. Hence why some of us take issues with the Loporrits dancing atop Zodiark's resting place.

I want FFXIV to be FFXIV. A high quality fantasy game with excellent storytelling. I believe this was accomplished in Heavensward and Shadowbringers. I would like to see it meet or exceed the standards of those two expansions at the bare minimum moving forward.

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Yet I disagree that you and others believe that EW had issues with how they wrote the Scions in the narrative. Personally I feel like HW and ShB alone are overrated and that the only reason they held any value to it's narrative and presentation is due to the backbone of the established setting in prior expansions before it.

If we took Heavensward as a standalone game then it wouldn't have worked, and the same goes for Shadowbringers and yeah this also means Endwalker. FFXIV' story is the sum of all it's parts and me personally I still see that it's quality being consistent.

But I'm not going to continue to argue over the story of the entire game. We already have such a thread for it.

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Hence why some of us take issues with the Loporrits dancing atop Zodiark's resting place

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Drat those people having FUN and celebrating life. The NERVE...

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a coffee shop being opened in Ultima Thule

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....you skip cutscenes, dont you?

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, and the infamous burger scene.

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

and yet it feels like you're trying to find solutions to issues you deem need to be "fixed" when they really dont. Maturity? This game already has plenty of that. Characters and settings that are fleshed out? Yup that as well.

Honestly the best thing the devs should do is to continue providing more with what we already have. My standards for this game is to see it continue to improve the basic foundations it laid with its story and gameplay. Not shift directions when there really isnt a need to make this game into something that isnt FFXIV. It always sounds like you want this game to be another game entirely and this is where I clash with your viewpoints. Those arent "standards" those are full on opinions.

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He's allowed to have the opinion that it needs to be fixed and therefore present solutions to that problem.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't share his view point. I feel like the direction the game is going story wise is just fine.

On the topic of this thread: This is going to be one packed patch and hopefully, everything goes smoothly with the patch release.