The MSQ Endwalker Trial Bosses are WAY too hard for newer players to FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Loonies

If this content, like any other non mmorpg content, is in the gold saucer i would be ok with that because its optional. But survival game content what cannot be skipped i dont need in a mmorpg. There are many survival games out there if someone really likes that.

Story telling is very good in FF14, but there is no need for difficult content or non mmorpg content for story telling.

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I would disagree here; It is a tradition in FF games to have mini games for better or for worse. While I would agree it was very badly done, the purpose of feeling helpless and extremely vulnerable outside of our body was very effective and arguably a better part of Endwalker. For the purpose of the story it was trying to convey (helplessness, mortality, despair), it was a success. It just had really artificial barriers and a really unintuitive means to get through it.

Great idea, terrible execution.

Moreover, EVERY expansion is about as difficult as Endwalker on release (arguably Heavansward was MORE difficult). The only reason past content feels so easy is because it's very old-hat to most players and/or our gear is way over the minimum iLVL for it.

Endwalker's content was for me some of the easiest of a new expansion outside of the "wtf do I do" moments.

IF you find this difficult, I advise skipping the new 18 man raid when it releases for about 2 weeks, because it will be Wipe City.

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Originally Posted by Loonies

If this content, like any other non mmorpg content, is in the gold saucer i would be ok with that because its optional. But survival game content what cannot be skipped i dont need in a mmorpg. There are many survival games out there if someone really likes that.

Story telling is very good in FF14, but there is no need for difficult content or non mmorpg content for story telling.

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There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

I would disagree here; It is a tradition in FF games to have mini games for better or for worse. While I would agree it was very badly done, the purpose of feeling helpless and extremely vulnerable outside of our body was very effective and arguably a better part of Endwalker. For the purpose of the story it was trying to convey (helplessness, mortality, despair), it was a success. It just had really artificial barriers and a really unintuitive means to get through it.

Great idea, terrible execution.

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It was executed just fine. I don't understand what people found so difficult about it.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.



It was executed just fine. I don't understand what people found so difficult about it.

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For many people the execution of it wasnt fun. If you pin terrible execution solely on difficulty you are massively jumping to conclusions.

I agree with kaynide, the idea made sense from a story point of view. But the actual gameplay of it was extremely shallow. You had exactly 4 actions: the standard attack, bulwark, fight or flight, and the med kit. The stealth aspect didnt go beyond dont get seen. The barriers had no justification that made sense in the world.

In my opinion what made it feel extra bad in terms of gameplay was that it was right after another stealth duty that actually put thought into stealth mechanics.

My assumption is that is was never about the difficulty, people were just too annoyed by it to really look into how it works. I say that because it's laughably easy to evade the mobs that run around. It's just not super fun or engaging.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

There's not a single thing in this game during the MSQ that is difficult.

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There wasn't a single thing in this game during the MSQ that wasn't difficult for you.

You do not speak for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

There wasn't a single thing in this game during the MSQ that wasn't difficult for you.

You do not speak for everyone.

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If anyone finds anything in the MSQ difficult in this game then I have to wonder how they finish any video games at all. At best some of the trials are somewhat challenging at launch that require "some" effort, but those generally get nerfed extremely fast and most of the time are still easy enough to carry people through.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Unless you're doing EX or Savage, you can just let your teammates carry you

Normal mode doesn't usally wipe the team when someone fails mechanics. Since there's no enrage, constant death isn't much of a big deal.

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They used to have more enrages in normal content, then sort of whistled that away over time. I kind of wish they would bring back a few even if it was semi-lax because encouragement to play better is always good for the long-term health of the game versus having more people 'just get by'.

One case in-point like DR Normal should not have that long of a instance clock with no enrages. They should have added some enrages, to fully encourage essence use. Versus people complaining about 1-hour+ clears. The savage mode has enrages, so people can't die too much and requires essences to even live.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

If anyone finds anything in the MSQ difficult in this game then I have to wonder how they finish any video games at all. At best some of the trials are somewhat challenging at launch that require "some" effort, but those generally get nerfed extremely fast and most of the time are still easy enough to carry people through.

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Again, by your standards.

I maintain - the fact that you find them easy doesn't suggest that everyone should.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Unless you're doing EX or Savage, you can just let your teammates carry you

Normal mode doesn't usally wipe the team when someone fails mechanics. Since there's no enrage, constant death isn't much of a big deal.

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Just because (general) you can let people carry you doesn’t mean that you should. Even if it isn’t EX or Savage. Why is it up to the other 3/7/23 people grouped with you to pick up the slack for you?

Normal mode raids used to have enrage timers. They phased those out after Deltascape, and the result is wars of attrition that should, honestly, just be stopped with enrages. There gets to be a point where it’s a bit ridiculous at the amount of bodies you can just throw at a boss with little to no consequence. Some of the normal modes and alliance raid runs I’ve been in needed an enrage. Why are we still hacking away at Guardian after 20 minutes…..

I’ve always found it amusing that Alte Roite normal — arguably the easiest normal mode raid to have been ever created — has an enrage of roughly 10 minutes (it’s the same as his Savage version). Ultima in Orbonne also has a soft enrage. Once you hit roughly 14 minutes in, she starts spamming her tankbuster at every 10-15 seconds or so. I saw it once back when the raid was relevant. It was actually quite glorious.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

For many people the execution of it wasnt fun. If you pin terrible execution solely on difficulty you are massively jumping to conclusions.

I agree with kaynide, the idea made sense from a story point of view. But the actual gameplay of it was extremely shallow. You had exactly 4 actions: the standard attack, bulwark, fight or flight, and the med kit. The stealth aspect didnt go beyond dont get seen. The barriers had no justification that made sense in the world.

In my opinion what made it feel extra bad in terms of gameplay was that it was right after another stealth duty that actually put thought into stealth mechanics.

My assumption is that is was never about the difficulty, people were just too annoyed by it to really look into how it works. I say that because it's laughably easy to evade the mobs that run around. It's just not super fun or engaging.

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The actual gameplay was to avoid being seen so the small toolkit was pretty much irrelevant outside of screw ups. I thought it was done well, apart from the final area since I couldn't recognize a pattern to actually slip by undetected and ended up getting caught once as a result but it wasn't a hard instance at all and was nowhere near as bad as the Ranjit Fight with Thancred in ShB.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Again, by your standards.

I maintain - the fact that you find them easy doesn't suggest that everyone should.

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I'll bite. What exactly is difficult? Unless you have a physical limitation which is incredibly unfortunate, there's nothing, literally nothing about the MSQ that is difficult. 90% of the MSQ is walking around and talking and the other 10% is either solo events that have a difficulty selection and are made as simple as possible or running through dungeons/trials that you can be easily carried through.