Sorry SE, but endgame won't work if you don't fix something.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Its not about easy vs hard. It's about being able to rely on what you see on the screen as accurate. At this point, that is not possible

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That may be, I'm not saying this game is perfect. But at the same time there are posters who have not been having this issue. And I base this on nothing but its my personal feeling that people are more likely to blame the game then their own inability.

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Originally Posted by Gramis

That may be, I'm not saying this game is perfect. But at the same time there are posters who have not been having this issue. And I base this on nothing but its my personal feeling that people are more likely to blame the game then their own inability.

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Yup people said this about the latency issues in 1.0 in Ifrit, granted there were a lot of bad players, granted you could win if you knew the fight and tells of the casting animations, but we really shouldn't have to be jumping through those kinds of hoops if the game and servers are designed correctly.

I think big headed tit bags are always the first to blame someone's ability to play though, regardless of the cause.. (If I can do it then you should too, latency is a myth)

I don't get why it's so hard for some people to admit that this is a problem. I mean, if they've seen even a single video which shows this problem it shouldn't be possible to deny the existence of this issue and blame it on individual skill. And if they haven't seen one,.. then they really should watch one before posting in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gramis

That may be, I'm not saying this game is perfect. But at the same time there are posters who have not been having this issue. And I base this on nothing but its my personal feeling that people are more likely to blame the game then their own inability.

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I believe what you mean to say is there are posters who have been able to tolerate and work around this issue, an issue that effects everyone....

refer to my analogy:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Imagine your boss told you to come to work at 8am. You show up promptly at 7:50am, only to be reprimanded for being 5 minutes late.
You'd complain, not because you are incapable of getting to work 15 minutes early, but because if he wanted you there at 7:45, he should have said 7:45.

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A person who ALWAYS shows up to a job 15 minutes early will say "I'm not having that problem"
Likewise, a person who always moves out of AOEs right away will say there is no problem. If the casting time is 3 seconds... and it takes a second to get out of the circle... then technically you should have just under 2 seconds to move.
In actuality, you have to move INSTANTLY because of the games poor design and coding.
The fact that some people can dodge and some can't is NOT the issue. The fact that the screen indications are WRONG is absolutely the issue. this is not "working as intended"

And once again, there are MMORPGs that don't suffer from this debilitating delay

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Originally Posted by Deculture

I had the same problem but then I disabled Nagle and haven't had any issue with AoE period. I highly suggest people that are having problems with it to try that out - just google "disable Nagle Windows #" (# being your windows version)

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Leatrix maybe ?
http://www.leatrix.com/leatrix-latency-fix
Not sure if anyone tried it for FF XIV

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Cut

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Look man I'm not an idiot I know what you mean… and I know what I mean, and I have read your previous posts. You're analysis is well thought out and it's pretty clear what you are communicating. Hell, Im just not convinced. But whatever a few more levels and a few pieces of new gear and I'll find out myself.

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Originally Posted by Gramis

Look man I'm not an idiot I know what you mean… and I know what I mean, and I have read your previous posts. You're analysis is well thought out and it's pretty clear what you are communicating. Hell, Im just not convinced. But whatever a few more levels and a few pieces of new gear and I'll find out myself.

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I don't think you're an idiot at all.
Go play 2 characters side by side though, and watch how delayed one characters movements are to the other.
And then think "This is the way the server sees your character"

Then go do the same thing in any other MMO (except FFXI) and you'll see that other people (and the server) see your character move in real time.
This is not a matter of opinion. It is a provable, repeatable flaw in the games design.

The trick about online gaming is that you don't see the latency as a player.
When about every game in the industry can do this than there is something wrong when you can't even get close.

A company like SE is not just below the standards, but this is pretty much at the bottom of the barrel.
This type of delays reminds me of my dial up model, and even back there the games I played where more responsive.

Over loaded servers and a maintenance make it even worse, especially since there are constant lag spikes.
In my case the game was playable up to the maintenance, after that impossible it's roll the dice get a 3 sec spike pre AOE and you're dead.

This what you see here is normal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24nypzuW2bw

Your Free Company should be calling out BEFORE it happens so that you are already moving. The AoE lands where you are currently running/standing as it pops out. That means if everyone is already moving back and forth its extremely easy to dodge it.

How do I know its you? Because half the people I cleared Titan with are in Australia, on NA servers. They have a consistent lag and even they can dodge it.

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Originally Posted by MakotoNano

Your Free Company should be calling out BEFORE it happens so that you are already moving. The AoE lands where you are currently running/standing as it pops out. That means if everyone is already moving back and forth its extremely easy to dodge it.

How do I know its you? Because half the people I cleared Titan with are in Australia, on NA servers. They have a consistent lag and even they can dodge it.

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This is called working AROUND the issue, Like myself and others have been saying the game gives you visual clues to gtfo of the way and they don't work properly. You shouldn't have to move before the attack comes up.

SE needs to own up to this BS and fix it.

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Originally Posted by Asmodeus

This is called working AROUND the issue, Like myself and others have been saying the game gives you visual clues to gtfo of the way and they don't work properly. You shouldn't have to move before the attack comes up.

SE needs to own up to this BS and fix it.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nonsense endgame is fine!!! Take it from my good friend and his guild that i met recently offering Titan, Ifrit wins for 300k and 350k for Garuda. That is chump change they say but hell we all have 1 mill gill lying in our back pockets so what is the issue here? lol

Edit: @ below Do what i do and buy sunglasses. : D

It's really hard to see with all the shine from the armor of the white knights in here.

I will bump this thread as the issue it relates it's true and gets very annoying, also ask to those that do not experience things like the video link someone else posted before to please don't come to fight as the issue doesn't touch you in any way, if it gets fixed it still won't touch you in any way, so why do you have the need to meddle in something that makes thousands of people unable to enjoy the game to it's fullest, we aren't asking them to make bosses easier on the contrary if they could remove the patterns of attacks it would be wonderful as would be the first time SE don't threat us at the same level that machines are without the ability to think on their own, and i repeat still we aren't asking for any of that, we just want a fix to the issue of current location inside the game and the location inside/outside area of effect skills. it sounds simple, but if SE is not willing to show any interest to the public then there's indeed something wrong on their side.

All I know is... I came to an NA world (with servers in Montreal -- a mere 8 hour drive from my house) to be able to stop dealing with this. In 1.0, I had a lot of latency issues because I'm on the East Coast and my ISP is not so great. Now, I am connected to servers that are in Montreal and I STILL have issues. I could say it's 'just me', but when other people are consistently getting hit too (even when I know they are skilled players), it's just super frustrating. We can't ALL be bad. The mechanics are simple enough. Do Titan a handful of times and you know how they work. The problem is, the server and the client aren't communicating well enough. Sometimes I'll avoid it when it seems like I narrowly missed it. Other times, I won't avoid it when it seems like I had PLENTY of time to get out. There seems to be no rhyme or reason when the game decides you are going to get hit by something. Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. I would really like it if I could get out of things when I know I run out of them. Nothing is more frustrating than knowing you are avoiding things only to have them blow up in your face... especially when you left your entire LS behind to come to an NA server so that you didn't have to deal with these problems anymore.

My buddy has a couple of relics and plays on wireless from Australia, I think most of you complaining are just bad.

The video linked at the start of this thread was for normal Titan. I cleared that fight in one shot without dying once. Casuals need to quit playing, and/or stop blaming their ISP issues or lack of ability on SE.

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Originally Posted by Rythless

My buddy has a couple of relics and plays on wireless from Australia, I think most of you complaining are just bad.

The video linked at the start of this thread was for normal Titan. I cleared that fight in one shot without dying once. Casuals need to quit playing, and/or stop blaming their ISP issues or lack of ability on SE.

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Your denial is an aberration to humanity itself please open your eyes and enlighten yourself that there's a world outside that doesn't revolves around you.

i hope this gift of mine helps you.

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Originally Posted by Rythless

My buddy has a couple of relics and plays on wireless from Australia, I think most of you complaining are just bad.

The video linked at the start of this thread was for normal Titan. I cleared that fight in one shot without dying once. Casuals need to quit playing, and/or stop blaming their ISP issues or lack of ability on SE.

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When I died last night, I got this same 'talking to' from some dude who thought I was just being bad. Then I watched him die to something silly several times. And then suddenly, "Oh, maybe you're right. Maybe there is something wrong with the servers tonight." Unless you are physically in the same fight I am in, at the same time I am there, I don't really think you can say "people are just bad." The congestion of the servers fluctuates, and your Australian buddy may be having an easier time if he isn't playing during NA primetime which is infamous for congestion issues.

This isn't about being good or bad. Do the fight enough and you know what the mechanics are. You know when to 'expect' something... Wait for it, see it, and run immediately... then it won't hit you. This has worked in every single other MMO I've ever played. Yet, in this MMO, even if it 'appears' like you got out.. you might still get hit. At least in other MMOs, when the 'warning' circle disappears, you'll know for sure if you're definitely going to get hit by it or not. I've never heard anyone complain "OH I KNOW I GOT OUT OF THAT" in other MMOs because that excuse doesn't fly. Yet here? People who I know have done MMO endgame for years are throwing a hissy fit because they know they're not bad and yet they still get hit. There's something wrong.

About a page back, someone posted a video about 'reaction speed' in other MMOs. This is true. In games like WoW, your cast is interrupted the second you jump or move at all. Yet in this game? I could be in the middle of the cast and start running and the cast will STILL go off even as I'm running. I utilize this 'mechanic' all the time while doing Ifrit and Garuda. Considering my internet connection and computer hasn't changed since playing endgame in other MMOs, there's something up here. Can you imagine what 'real' pvp is going to be like?

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Originally Posted by Rythless

My buddy has a couple of relics and plays on wireless from Australia, I think most of you complaining are just bad.

The video linked at the start of this thread was for normal Titan. I cleared that fight in one shot without dying once. Casuals need to quit playing, and/or stop blaming their ISP issues or lack of ability on SE.

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You are clearly an idiot with his head up his own backside.

Seems like there is just a lot of bad players with bad hand/eye coordination.....its ok...give it 3 months and they will gimp all the difficulty when new content comes out since that Ilvl wont mean crap anymore.

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Originally Posted by RaidenTaichou

Seems like there is just a lot of bad players with bad hand/eye coordination.....its ok...give it 3 months and they will gimp all the difficulty when new content comes out since that Ilvl wont mean crap anymore.

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Indeed there are a lot of bad players and people who wants and easy game, yet those matters are not the issue we are trying to discuss or achieve, please if got any clue to an actual solution to this deal we are willing to give you our time and solve it once and for all, yet you doesn't seem to show any proof to put any thinking much less a single research of the problem we are actually trying to fix as you currently do not experience any of it.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

First:
Try playing 2 characters side by side and you'll see that people see you a full second behind how you see yourself. Its not the internet.... Its the PROGRAMMING (or lack thereof).

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Noticed this part too. In my screen, I was running ahead of all my party members, yet the video recorded by one of the party members showed that I was the last (running at the back). :confused:

I just beat HM Titan today and turning off the flashy Battle Effects under the character configuration screen helps a lot. It lets you actually see what is going on and helps you dodge things easier.

People trying real hard to convince themselves that something that isn't broken, is. Keep making excuses as to why you can't beat Titan. Everyone who isn't garbage will either own up to their net not being stable, improve their play, or just get their relics done.

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Originally Posted by Rythless

People trying real hard to convince themselves that something that isn't broken, is. Keep making excuses as to why you can't beat Titan. Everyone who isn't garbage will either own up to their net not being stable, improve their play, or just get their relics done.

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Hey, look what's in the "accepted bugs" forum - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29

AOE display delay isn't simply user error, says FFXIV dev team.

No one wants the game to be 'easier' -- or at least no one in this thread wants that to be true. We just want the mapping of abilities on the ground to be true-to-sight. I wish I still had other active MMO accounts to take videos and 'compare' what I am talking about. I personally like the difficulty of the three hardmode primals. Ifrit is all about positioning and stuns. Garuda is all about positioning and LoS. Titan is all about avoidance and dishing out as much as you can during the heart phase while STILL moving. The three fights complement each other, even if Ifrit and Garuda still seem 'easier'. Once you get the mechanics down for those, you can move before the things you need to avoid even pop up. Even if you're absolutely horrible at spatial relations, you can eat one dash and be fine. Garuda's jumps have a predictable pattern. Titan, however, is all reaction... his bombs and other abilities are predictable to an extent, but a lot of it is just moving. I like that it forces you to be good at that. I like that the knock-off from landslide and the constant AoEs post-heart makes it a very unforgiving fight... but I really wish the stupid AoEs on the ground would be true to what you see.

I originally thought it was my ISP. My ISP is bad, but I have been able to play every single other MMO (as well as fast-paced pvp) without issue... But then I saw people I knew could get out of things not getting out of them. As a player that knows the mechanics and knows how to get out of things IMMEDIATELY, it's very frustrating to STILL get hit. I can't explain it to you. If I'm being bad, I know I'm being bad. If I get hit by a dash in Ifrit, I know I'm making a mistake. I deserved it. But if I run as soon as I see Titan's abilities and still get hit? It's frustrating. Now I'm not sure if it is the programming or simply the congestion of the Duty Finder. Sometimes, not a single person in our experienced group has an issue getting out of AoEs. At other times (usually during primetime), everyone has an issue. So perhaps the people who are experiencing this more than others are the people playing during the more congested moments of the night. There needs to be more Duty Finder servers if this congestion is consistent.

I'm curious as to why people are white knighting this Known/Documented problem? No one here has said Titan should be made easier, people would just love it if SE would bring their server structure and coding up high standards. If people stop asking them to fix what is clearly broken/problematic they can just get away with anything, cause apparently bugs and poor design decisions are something you have to learn to work around instead of calling for improvements.

I'm happy for people who don't have this problem/haven't ran into it. Good for you. Can SE still fix it for those of us who do? please? I hate being smashed by AoE that are half a screen away from where my client says my char is.

OP: You highlight one of the few things that actually has the potential to kill this game -- The client/server responsiveness is terrible. This isn't just a Titan thing. There are a ton of AOE attacks (some fatal, some near fatal, and some just massively inconvenient) that calculate the "hit" way before the damage is applied. It's frustrating and often infuriating to see a red circle on the ground, very clearly move out of it, and then get instagibbed by an attack that you saw and properly reacted to because this game is coded poorly.

People will leave the game over this once they get to level cap and see this happening for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Unruhe

OP: You highlight one of the few things that actually has the potential to kill this game -- The client/server responsiveness is terrible. This isn't just a Titan thing. There are a ton of AOE attacks (some fatal, some near fatal, and some just massively inconvenient) that calculate the "hit" way before the damage is applied. It's frustrating and often infuriating to see a red circle on the ground, very clearly move out of it, and then get instagibbed by an attack that you saw and properly reacted to because this game is coded poorly.

People will leave the game over this once they get to level cap and see this happening for themselves.

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This is true. I remember one example in AK... I was running it with a bunch of people. We were all 'experts' on every fight. During one run, I switched to WHM (a job I hadn't played since 1.0) to allow someone to get the win for their relic job. During our first attempt at Demon Wall... everyone dropped like a sack of bricks on the first purple ground rotation. We died within just that one rotation. I thought, "Wow, I must be horrible. How am I failing to keep people up when we have been doing this for hours... Something is wrong with me." Then I noticed -- every single person, tank included, was being hit by the purple. Clearly, we knew the mechanics (we had been doing it all day!). On our screen, we were avoiding them... But that one little hiccup caused us all to get hit by the purple and promptly wipe because it happened over and over. So, we came back... and did it a second time. Flawless victory. What is up with that?

Anyway, even without this little 'hiccup', you really have to plan for it. When you see the purple in the middle about to explode, you have to start moving to get in the middle to avoid the side or you might have issues thanks to this mapping problem. I know this isn't related to Titan, but it is one example I feel more people can relate to if they haven't gotten to Titan hardmode yet.

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Originally Posted by Aldyiss

I'm curious as to why people are white knighting this Known/Documented problem? No one here has said Titan should be made easier, people would just love it if SE would bring their server structure and coding up high standards. If people stop asking them to fix what is clearly broken/problematic they can just get away with anything, cause apparently bugs and poor design decisions are something you have to learn to work around instead of calling for improvements.

I'm happy for people who don't have this problem/haven't ran into it. Good for you. Can SE still fix it for those of us who do? please? I hate being smashed by AoE that are half a screen away from where my client says my char is.

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I'm curious as well, what do they have to gain by saying there's no problem? Its great that some people don't have this problem, I WISH I didn't have this problem. I'm in NA too so I'm just not sure what's causing it. I play on my PC and my husband plays on PS3. Sometimes I'll move and look at the TV, I don't start moving on his screen for about 1.5 seconds.I run out of the circles as fast as possible, I'll admit there are a few times where I just wasn't fast enough...but most of the time I don't think I should have gotten hit. I've never had an issue getting out of the fire in any other game. You shouldn't have to move before they start casting to actually dodge things. The video posted earlier about the Titan fight is exactly how it went for me when I did SM. I had to resort to standing right by him so if I got hit I wouldn't actually fall off.

I saw someone mention in the comments in that video that if you cast an instant spell after you get out of the circle that you won't get hit...can anyone tell me if that's true or not? That could really be helpful.

I have a 50-60ms ping to the server, and I still have issues with this. Oddly, it seems to be much worse in instances than in the open world.

Not sure if anyone anywhere mentioned it but your GPU can be the problem. You might have a diesel internet connection but if your rig's GPU can't process the game it'll make it seem like there's lag.

Specific example: My girlfriend and I play in the same room. I have a 460 and she was running a so-so 5750 (or something close to that). She would be out of range on her screen and then get drilled by some moves. The next day I went out and upgraded her GPU and not a single problem.

The telltale sign of lag is a sliding corpse. If people don't see your corpse slide then it isn't lag from the servers but rather personal hardware limitations (provided that it isn't you yourself).

If you're having issues please post your setup.

P.S. - Yes, I know it sucks to hear that you might have to upgrade your hardware but that's just the life of a PC gamer, sadly.

just poping in to express my support and say i wont be subscribing if this is not fixed.

Happens to me frequently on many fights, even on just trash. I'll get totally out of the way and I'll be standing and attacking then I'm hit by the mechanic I know I got out of.

Then of course comes the ridicule and ragers, etc. If the whole game is gonna be like this on top of the insane grind for Darklight gear....yeah I'll just wait for a new MMO to come out that actually does the "Action" portion correctly.

Lol and I thought WoW PvP is a joke. I really can't see any skillful PvP in a laggy environment. Juking and interupting CC will probably involve quite a lot of prayer on both parties.

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Originally Posted by Rythless

People trying real hard to convince themselves that something that isn't broken, is. Keep making excuses as to why you can't beat Titan. Everyone who isn't garbage will either own up to their net not being stable, improve their play, or just get their relics done.

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Where about's do you live (what latency do you get), I would love to see you fight Titan on someone's set up that is experiencing these problems then we could all ridicule and laugh at you for being a bad player also.

Assuming you play ARC as your main, you don't even have darklight according to, http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1332154/, something tells me your full of hot air.

For the people saying the Titan AOE cant be dodged, i have said this in almost every thread. the issue is with the ISP not the game, i have played with people suffering from the AOE and cant dodge no matter what they do and as soon as they use Battleping (tunneling system) they can dodge the AOEs fine with no issues. btw no am not in us i live in middle east and our latency is higher than Europe.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Where about's do you live (what latency do you get), I would love to see you fight Titan on someone's set up that is experiencing these problems then we could all ridicule and laugh at you for being a bad player also.

Assuming you play ARC as your main, you don't even have darklight according to, http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1332154/, something tells me your full of hot air.

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Pathetic white knight.

From Yoshi's post in the beta forums we know that the client sends the position updates to the server 0.3 seconds apart.

Let's see how this works in an AoE with a 1 second cast time. I'll say we have 50ms latency. Human reaction time is about 215ms.

TIME
0.000 Server starts casting the AoE
0.050 Client receives cast beginning and shows red AoE indicator
0.265 Human reaction time - the player begins to move now
...
0.660 Client sends position - the player has been moving for 0.395s
0.710 Server receives postion - still in AoE
0.750 Player leaves AoE area on the client
0.960 Client sends position (0.3 second later)
1.000 Server finishes cast and checks position - player is in the AoE at 0.660, so it's a hit
1.010 Server receives postion from 0.960 - out of AoE before cast finished but it's too late now
1.050 Client receives cast finish and shows the player taking the damage

Note that the time you have to run out of the red circle is 0.395s - a lot less than 1 second.

I haven't allowed any time for client and server processing, any extra time here makes the situation worse.

Now lets see what happens when you have 150ms latency.

TIME
0.000 Server starts casting the AoE
0.150 Client receives cast beginning and shows red AoE indicator
0.365 Human reaction time - the player begins to move now
...
0.560 Client sends position - the player has been moving for 0.195s
0.710 Server receives postion - still in AoE
0.850 Player leaves AoE area on the client
0.860 Client sends position (0.3 second later)
1.000 Server finishes cast and checks position - player is in the AoE at 0.560, so it's a hit
1.010 Server receives postion from 0.860 - out of AoE before cast finished but it's too late now
1.150 Client receives cast finish and shows the player taking the damage

Now the time you have to run out of the red circle is 0.195s - less than half what you had at 50ms latency.

How well does testing a players reaction speed work for making the game hard?

Say the server is perfect and predicts where the player is when the AoE cast finishes so the 0.3s update does not matter anymore.

You're playing with 50ms latency. Human reaction time is about 215ms.

The AoE is cast at the players feet and is big enough that it takes 0.700s to reach safety after you start moving.

TIME
0.000 Server starts casting the AoE
0.050 Client receives cast beginning and shows red AoE indicator
0.265 Human reaction time - the player begins to move now
...
0.965 Player leaves AoE area on the client
1.000 Server finishes cast and checks predicted position - player is in the clear
1.050 Client receives cast finish and shows the player is OK

Now what happens if we have 150ms latency

TIME
0.000 Server starts casting the AoE
0.150 Client receives cast beginning and shows red AoE indicator
0.365 Human reaction time - the player begins to move now
...
1.000 Server finishes cast and checks predicted position - player is in the AoE, so it's a hit
1.065 Player leaves AoE area on the client
1.150 Client receives cast finish and shows the player taking the damage

There is the problem. If the game is tuned to make it hard for a player with 50ms latency it is impossible for the same player with higher latency!

So using reaction time to measure a players skill can never work unless all the players have the same latency.