I know exactly what you mean and her/his posts don't seem to point in this direction no matter how many were written or how many times I re-read them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaTaru
How can SE stop this from happening without taking away current rights? So if I payed for 4 accounts I can't let just one character kill everything my own leve party? I would have to play each one at the same time? If I use my wife account for the extra leves will I be banned for doing so?
This topic is mediocre and affects only those that choose to make it more than what it is.
edit: The above is not something I have ever done or plan on ever doing(my wife also doesn't play). I just choose to be empathetic on topics and I just don't see why anyone cares so much about this(no matter how hard I am honestly trying). It's just being way too nosy by wanting to hover over someone's shoulder and judging how they choose to play.
AFK Leveling
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04-30-2011, 04:06 PMAkumu
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04-30-2011, 04:12 PMPandaTaru
That's where you draw the line between "fair use" and "abuse". IRL such thing is called common sense.
After if you're just posting to contradict people just to try to make a point because you think your opinion prevails, then be happy with it.
What we're seeing these days is not the guy who help himself plvl the wife or himself with the help of another account, it's parties of people in the same ls abusing loopholes. I'm sure SE didn't -- never-- meant to have such thing happen AND it's bad rep for them when something like this happens too. So instead of blaming/flaming the OP for pointing that loophole out, flame the abusers who are using a older than old loophole in MMOs. -
04-30-2011, 04:13 PMShaiWhy don't you go play WoW?Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaTaru
Answer: You choose not to.
I'm not breaking any rules and I'm not ruining your experience. Why do you care what I do or how I play?
Answer some of the questions I asked previously about who this harms or how this unbalances anything?
Unless they're too challenging. Then you can keep trying to change the subject or join M in pushing your opinions and psuedo-morals on others. -
04-30-2011, 04:15 PMPandaTaruRead my post above and get your answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
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04-30-2011, 04:19 PMAkumuThis "loophole" you speak of every MMO has it one way or another. In any MMO there will be people that powerlevel unless you add drastic changes. Even if they add the sp randomness again what do you think the bots will do then? They will be programmed to spam something. This will then affect the Legits a lot more in attempt to slow someone powerleveling(which isn't serious).Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaTaru
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04-30-2011, 04:21 PMShai
It doesn't matter what they intended.
If I played the game the way they intended I'd be able to debuff monsters with my miner by throwing rocks.
I'm playing the game they made, man, in a way that works for me and my family and my friends. You don't have to.
You didn't answer who it hurts or how it unbalances anything. All you've done is make an assumption that SE doesn't want people doing it - and you may be correct (probably are!) but it doesn't change how the game works or the fact that no innocent bystanders were harmed in the process. -
04-30-2011, 04:25 PMPandaTaruI never said it should be fixed. I'm telling you to redirect your pseudo-rage on the people abusing this loophole rather than then the OP. If you need to express some sort of rage, take boxing classes. You know the saying about arguing on the Internet, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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04-30-2011, 04:29 PMHonzLooks like you're just as guilty as M for pushing your morals and opinions on to others from what I've read you're already said your peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai
i see you say is blah blah my wife and i play together and we dual box. no one really cares what you or your wife does the game doesn't revolve around you. like panda said this loophole has been around since the dawn of mmos but sadly nothing we can even do about it.
honestly i'd join the bandwagon of people leeching if i needed to but hell im better than that. I can effectively play all my classes better than they ever could. -
04-30-2011, 04:33 PMKilta_Firelotus
Honestly I'm starting to think mini m and pandataru are NEETS. Talk about noisy players you butt in on other peoples play habits. You guys really need to get off your high hourse and realize, nothing is wrong. All this will cause are players forced to leave parties and leaders scrabling to find replacements. Which again isn't easy. Also people will start to get peeved off when parties disband due to a few ppl needing to go afk to use the RR.
Honestly I can see this now. "hey guys I got to go, I need to use the WC. " Later" /leaves <<how peeved off will people get when they see this >.>
Or better yet, "guys my kid is hungy I g2g bye". No one would party with anyone at this point.
Sorry but not everyone is a complete NEET. -
04-30-2011, 04:35 PMAkumuWow do my posts really show a tone of rage? I'm not raging at all since the topic is mediocre at best. I just chose to discuss such a topic with the person that made this thread to try and gain an understanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaTaru
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04-30-2011, 04:36 PMShaiI'm not pushing or selling anything. I'm only responding in a conversational manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honz
Of course the game doesn't revolve around me. I'm merely stating how I enjoy to play addressing the devs with a counter argument. I have definitely said my peace and all I'm pushing now are good reasons to be up people's butt about how they choose to spend their time when it's not affecting you.
You see, gil sellers (against the rules, btw) actually unbalance the economy. They make it difficult for legitimate players to get gil in a legitimate manner. Inflation makes it difficult for casual players to make purchases. That's why this type of activity is against the rules. Leveling multiple accounts at the same time is totally legit. You could do it in XI because of auto-attack (and we'll have that soon, too!) so there's a big difference between "right" and "wrong" and it's defined by the Terms of Service and the game mechanics themselves.
Playing outside the game mechanics (botting) or against TOS is cheating and ultimately handled by SE.
Everything else is players criticizing players for doing something "players don't like."
(and I'm irritated that same player is telling me not to read a thread if I don't like it; take your own advice).
There's no proof of this, but if you tell yourself this to protect your personal Code of Ethics in MMOs so be it. You could be the worst player in the history of video games for all I know - or the best. How many accounts you level at the same time probably don't influence your skill level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honz
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04-30-2011, 04:38 PMShaiSame with me. I'm bored and fishing in XIV. So here I am having a "conversation" where people disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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04-30-2011, 04:40 PMKilta_FirelotusPersonally you don't even get what is going on. Mini and panda or buing noisy bizzy bodies who have nothing better to do then poke their noise in how ppl play. Saying it is an exploit, And flaming anyone who does it with out knowing the full story. He just gave an example of how he plays, OP is bluntly over stating their dislike of people like him. W/o knowing anything more then what they think they see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honz
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04-30-2011, 04:45 PMSynapse
I let my ls mates/friends leech on me, usually because of either: Phone, Eating, Feeding dog, or other random 5 min stuff. Random people, if they don't say they are afk'ing in pt chat or if they did and not show up for after 5 min, i will oust them, let them join in when they get back.
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04-30-2011, 04:45 PMShaiQuoted for not saying NEET! I don't know what that is and your inclusion of it in every post makes me uncomfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
Therefore, don't post because it irritates me and me alone and I don't care how you feel.
(joking, in the spirit of this thread and forcing opinions on others). -
04-30-2011, 04:46 PMHonz
So many mad people in this thread lolololol.
I know better from reading the forums than to reply to you kilta I know you're just a instigator. I don't have to tell myself anything because I already have proof that I am better than you. Can't live with that tough luck brother. -
04-30-2011, 04:49 PMShaiYeah, that sucks for me. I've been defeated. You have all the proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honz
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04-30-2011, 05:16 PMHotohoriSorry for being off topic but I don't think you actually understand the meaning of NEET. NEET is an acronym to describe a person with No Education, Employment or Training. Meaning a person who does not attend school, work and not in the process of learning a trade to be part of specific field of jobs. It has nothing to do with family or needing to use the restroom. How is this term applicable for people who care about how others spend their time playing a game as you are using it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
Yes, some people seem to take the comments about this topic very personally because it would greatly effect the advantages they currently possess when controlling additional characters if policy or mechanics are changed. Gaining skill ups is not an infinite part of the game and once maxed out a character can reap the same rewards as all others who worked to the same point. Sorry but that empty shell of a character doesn't honestly deserve anything in the game for simply existing behind your own. If your wives' characters do not play the game, they don't deserve to be rank 50 and have the same benefits of being a rank 50. -
04-30-2011, 05:27 PMAkumuDo I like seeing people do this especially with the full party leech thing? NOQuote:
Originally Posted by Hotohori
However it still stands why should anyone care enough since it won't affect anyone else?
Just because you, me, or anyone else FEEL they shouldn't be r50 doesn't mean it should have drastic changes to the game to make us feel better. -
04-30-2011, 05:30 PMKilta_Firelotus
hoto, Think about it. A person with no education employment or training has a TON of free time, some turn into shut ins and through special means (mooching off parants) tend to play mmo. They put too much involement and literally live their life in said mmo. They tend to be up ppls butts about what to do, and what they feel is write or wrong.
Bacically a NEET would care about "afk leechers" and "multiboxer" And make a post about it. I do know what the term means and using it correctly :) So no I'm not getting the term wrong.
Pretty much anyone who feels to strongly about what OP is saying, or as to pull what OP is pulling, agrees with the OP. Take a break from gaming. You need it as you take this game to seriously. You have no right to intrude on how other people play as it DOES NOT EFFECT YOU, YOUR GAME. Stop trying to play big brother and be up ppls rears and judge them. -
04-30-2011, 05:32 PMRadaghastIf I want to powerlevel a character, whether its my own, a friends, or a relatives, I can and will. Nothing you or your "moralistic" views on how other people play the game is going to change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotohori
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04-30-2011, 05:37 PMKilta_Firelotus
"Sorry but that empty shell of a character doesn't honestly deserve anything in the game for simply existing behind your own. If your wives' characters do not play the game, they don't deserve to be rank 50 and have the same benefits of being a rank 50."
Then everyone in ffxi don't deserve their level 75s as most if not all have been subjected to 1 being afk while lvling. 2 a dual/multi box party. 3 powerleved.
Like I said to mini you guys think of ffxi with rose colored glasses. And don't see what will happen with this change you 4 are demanding, while flaming others. -
04-30-2011, 05:38 PMAkumu
We can even take it a step further and say the low levels that get help from their linkshell/friends with gear drops shouldn't have it because they didn't earn it.
The ones that get gear crafted for free shouldn't get it because it wasn't earned.
If you get repairs for free from another you didn't earn it either so ban them all(or create a system that hinders it).
Seriously no one has a right to impose their morals, principles, and/or beliefs on another. -
04-30-2011, 05:41 PMHotohoriSorry but it is more then just a Feeling they shouldn't be rank 50 this way. It is a absolute fact that these people should not be rank 50 for doing nothing. Please stop saying that it doesn't effect anyone else because that's not even true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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04-30-2011, 05:44 PMAkumuSo how does it affect other people then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotohori
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04-30-2011, 05:50 PMShaiThat's outrageous, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotohori
I enjoy playing with my wife but our schedules dictate different hours. You're saying I should suffer because she works? I shouldn't level her to keep up with me because she doesn't deserve it? She should only be level 35 because she has to pay the bills and put food on the table? What are you saying, man?
That's horrible. I'm doing her a favor and it's bringing us closer as a family because when we're home together we can enjoy playing together. SE can decide if they want to take that away from us, but no one in this thread is going to make me feel bad about it. She deserves every level we have worked together to get her. Thanks for your opinion, though. It's not a fact.
Yes, and how does it affect anyone? She stealing all the R50 gear you wish you had? -
04-30-2011, 05:50 PMHonz
lol. 10charsssss is that enough chars i can't count.
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04-30-2011, 05:53 PMKilta_FirelotusOk so why? And how is it hurting you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotohori
Also you saying no one in ffxi should be 75. As everyone leved while afk at somepoint. Everyone duel boxed or was in a party with a duel boxer. Everyone was powerleved at some point. This goes for all mmo.
Hech why not take it a step farther and say those who level in parties don't deserve their leves cuz they are getting help. Amd those who solo easy pray mobs don't deserve their levels as they are mooching off easy kills.
no one here has given a good reason for a change other then just being a NEET wana be and shove their nose where it don't belong. Lets also add those who do levequests don't earn their levels since they require almost no thought to them. -
04-30-2011, 05:55 PMHonz
lol. 10 chars i think i have enough chars this time.
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04-30-2011, 05:55 PMRuen
I really dont care how people play the game.. if I see someone in my group go afk I'd boot them. People playing afk will not affect me in any way because I wont be taken advantage of. If someone feels strongly about someone not afking in a group dont let them in the group.. simple.
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04-30-2011, 06:07 PMShaiI'm not sure what you're talking about or why you keep saying this but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Honz
Personal Opinion: You don't need more than 8 chars really at this point in the game. 10 is probably too many. -
04-30-2011, 06:08 PMHonz
You can't make a post with less than 10 characters in your post.
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04-30-2011, 06:20 PMShai
...but I can ask people to provide evidence or ideas of how AFK leveling or power leveling imbalances the game in anyway and be met with stark silence and disappearance of posters.
That's a neat trick, I think. It's almost like it's an invalid argument. -
04-30-2011, 06:32 PMHonz
I dunno you guys can argue all you want about who's idea is right or wrong. Only fact here is that theres nothing any of us can or cannot do about it. This was all a merely a discussion and people got all worked up over it.
You can prove all you want about how your opinion is right but in the end nothing is being done about it, only thing thats happening is you're showing how you behave in this community. -
04-30-2011, 06:38 PMShai
I am showing I behave rationally and in the defense of my right to play how I choose within the confines of the game mechanics and the rules of conduct I agreed to? Sweet!
I'm not trying to "prove" I'm right. I'm asking for the people who claimed it was "wrong" to explain how or why its wrong in words other than "they don't like it." I don't think it's too much to ask for, honestly. Especially if they're going to beg the development team to "fix" it. (Especially after [some people] begged the development team to take away a system that demanded you not be AFK - though they may not be the same people).
Personally I liked the previous system more, but I would have given a small amount of SP per kill regardless of actions so you didn't walk away from a fight with 0SP occasionally. That was a real bummer about that system. A minimum cap of 50 SP and a hard cap of 500SP would have been nice, though. Just my opinion, I know it's an unpopular one.
When I first experienced it in Beta I thought "Sweet, a system where people can AFK and no one cares, but they don't get the benefit of receiving EXP/SP also. How casual!" -
04-30-2011, 07:07 PMHotohori
You don't work, you don't eat. It's that simple. For every person out there wasting resources in life, depending on others without contributing will cause others to pay for it in some form.
Every empty character has general effect in a small world economy like this game. A player who essentially controls two characters will have twice the benefits through the same amount and time and effort as a player with one. You create twice the supply without the balance of twice the demand.
Player 1 controls a single character does 8 regional levequests per reset. Player 1 generates X raw income and T materials into the system.
Player 2 controls two characters and does 16 regional levequests per reset. Player 2 generates X+Y income and T+U materials into the system for zero additional effort. Same amount of time spent for twice the rewards.
Player 2 has devalued the effort of Player 1 in half already.
Player 1 controls one character and mines for 3 hours generating X materials and shards.
Player 2 controls two characters and mines for 3 hours generating X+Y materials and shards.
Player 2 has devalued the materials acquired by creating more identical supply then Player 1.
Player 1 controls one character and grinds monsters generating X skill points in 2 hours.
Player 2 controls two characters and grinds monsters generating X+Y+Z+Y skill points in 2 hours.
X is the standard skill value gained by Player 1 and 2. Z is the standard skill value gained by Player 2 second character. Y is the skill value gained from bonuses of party, kill efficiency and additional kills possible with two characters.
Player 2 gains superior skill gains without additional effort to Player 1.
If you work as hard as two people, you deserve the rewards of two people for sure. This is not the current situation. People are working as hard as one person and reaping the rewards of eight people is not balanced. People are controlling eight characters to have an advantage over players who don't control eight characters.
Player 2 will generate twice the general supply and benefits of Player 1 without generating the demand and needs of being two real people. Your two characters create a smaller scale effect that is similar to the effects of mass account uses of RMT and bots. The only difference is the demand of RMT is real money in exchange for their supply and similar amounts of work, while you are accepting additional skill points and revenue for your excess supply. Just because you don't directly see yourself hurting someone doesn't mean your actions have no consequences.
Any event or limitation of time through the game is being bypassed by additional character management. Low on anima? Your second is there to teleport you. No more leves to do? Your second has 8 more for you to skill up on. Need more crystals? Your second is doubling your crystal gain through a broken system of loot distribution. Hit gathering fatigue for the day? Your second is fresh and ready to go. Sorry that second character isn't doing anything but existing behind you and has every point of skill and items you earned without doing anything. This isn't right at all.
You say you don't see huge groups around you with 7 leeches following, well that is because they are standing behind you it seems. I see them and know I can't do anything about it just like I can't stop craft bots and fish bots. But I'm free to judge and express my opinions about it just like any one else in the world. You are doing the same and is no different.
What exactly is it about your wife being 35 and not 50 that is hurting you guys. Are you embarrassed she is not 50 like you? Did she withhold sex from you for not ranking her character? Last I checked there was no law that required someone to reach rank 50 in a certain time limit. If she plays she will get there eventually. If you want to play together you still can. You playing her character to rank 50 is not playing together, it's you playing with yourself.
Your example of the friend helping someone gain a NM drop is incredibly poor. The drop was a single generation that could go to either your friend or yourself. You choosing to give to your friend or even hunt for your friend was entirely up to you. It did not generate extra versions of the drop in a single instance for being there and the existence of it has no other effect on other players. More will be generated over time and go to others normally. Did the friend deserve the drop? The actual answer is no! Technically he did not earn it at all did he. My statement is not false in any literal sense.
If you let someone leech you that is your fault for doing so. But the issue here isn't so simple as a random leech in a pick up group. If I see the efforts of myself in the game being reduced by others through excess means, I'm allowed to call them out on it. -
04-30-2011, 07:15 PMKilta_Firelotus
hoto so far your wall of text = I play ffxiv to much [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]
Sorry that was a poor and untruthful example and sounds more like a cry for help. Games are not real life get over it.
[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.] TONS of ppl dualboxed in ffxi. Yet no one really cried over it. -
04-30-2011, 07:19 PMShaiI do work. It's called 'raising a family.'Quote:
You don't work, you don't eat. It's that simple. For every person out there wasting resources in life, depending on others without contributing will cause others to pay for it in some form.
It's actually quite difficult. You should try it sometime. It's very rewarding.
Edit: Also in your example that I didn't read past 4 paragraphs. The only difference between Player 1 and Player 2 is that Player 1 chooses to rely on 1 "characters" income rather than start a new character, spend the time to level it, and reap more of a reward. You get the effort you put into it. Player 1 could go out and buy a 2nd computer and a 2nd FFXIV and do what I do (which by the way is for a 2nd human player who buys her own gear and uses her own resources - but in your example we can pretend that's not the case).
Nothing bars others from doing it besides the choice not to do it. There's nothing in the game itself or the rules given by SE that indicate you cannot or should not do it. People are just creating these "morals" and "beliefs" about right & wrong (which is fine) but then trying to hold others to their arbitrary standards.
I play by my own arbitrary standards and the rules and guidelines presented to me by SE.
PS: Sorry for the long edit. I didn't want to blow off your whole post. Just the half of it that was redundant. -
04-30-2011, 07:21 PMHotohori
Sorry if you misunderstood I don't give a *** how you play kilta but I care that the system of the game creates double the normal rewards for zero additional effort when it comes to just having an additional character. I was giving a response to how additional characters and people who simply take the easy way in life are currently effecting others. I didn't call out anyone specifically and my comments were are pretty correct about the system of skill and material generation in the game.
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04-30-2011, 07:21 PMHotohoriDoes your work generate enough revenue to provide for two families instead of one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai