Amdapor Keep exploit, and what do the Devs think?

http://i.imgur.com/yOZNPUd.png

This

We never budged an inch, one guy left without saying a word and the healer said "rofl." and left.

Utter nonsense.

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Originally Posted by nukempro

You don't understand what the word force actually means. You choose to Que up for the DF knowing full well your party will want to speedrun. Your solution to this isn't..."Oh well ill make my own party and have it run the dungeon proper." Instead it's "I will petition the devs to make everyone clear the trash, because thats how i want to do it." See? One side is saying do your own thing(speedrunners) and the other side is petitioning devs to program the game so speedrunners can't exist.

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This is because running the dungeon properly should be considered the default method -- not the exception. If you want to do speed runs you should build a group manually (unless of course the entire DF group wants to speed run, then of course its all good.)

I also don't think trash should be just a pain to clear, the idea of them dropping gil or company seals would be a great step towards that.

What would also be sweet is if trash dropped frequently high quality crafting materials, or maybe a small chance to drop unique equipment pieces.

I said this in another thread, but probably more appropriate here.

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In all fairness, SE did kind of design this poorly making only one dungeon that isn't Binding Coil of Bahamut the best access to Mythology tokens. No other dungeon gives them and the other method of getting them is a minuscule amount from primals in comparison. When you are spamming the same dungeon again and again and again non-stop, you are inevitably going to get tired of it's aspects and find the quickest way possible.

There are better ways this could have been approached. They could of made Wanderer's Palace give mythology tokens also, or add a feature that Duty Finder picks a random lv.50 dungeon, but gives more mythology tokens as a reward. Giving variety helps things feel less tedious. WoW end game when farming valor points, has at least 3-4 dungeons to run with Random giving more if you choose it and it does help the process feel less tedious.

Maybe it wouldn't completely resolve the issue. However, the reason exploits like these happen to begin with is because of how tedious the task is. They simply need to add variety and features to "help" prevent these things. They kind of stepped on their own foot making one dungeon (a long one when killing all mobs mind you) the go to place to get mythology tokens.

I personally have gotten sick of the dungeon already and the game has only been out a week. I would of loved that other dungeons offered the tokens and SE has created better incentives to play a variety of dungeons end game instead of just one. To me, this is a major flaw for end game.

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Hypothetically if you did want to prevent things like this from happening, like someone said, features like in Aurum Vale where killing the mobs is necessary to proceed is how you fix issues like this. I can't say if SE will respond to AK speed runs, but they most likely know it exists and will take these type of things into account when creating and releasing new dungeons.

They can help with two issues the game has by placing treasure chests in smart places and making the Allegan coins drop for everybody in the party. People will run the dungeon as intended and we get a step towards stopping the deflation crisis that is looming.

Just wondering, what exactly is the Demon Wall exploit?

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

You can think me a douche, but if the party wants to speed-run anything, i'm leaving and they can find a rep.

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I find this kind of funny, because when I do pugs in AK, they immediately ask "Are you doing a speed run?" if I say No, they leave. This occurs non-stop for, I haven't had a single person not leave and I am not exaggerating. Ok maybe a little, I may get brand new people who don't even know you can speed run it, but outside of that, they expect it.

Yea, one dungeon for mythologies other than bahamut really does make it all boring. I hate speed runs too, and avoided dungeons in 1.0 because the crap was designed around them. There needs to be incentive to kill mobs. maybe if they dropped 1 or 2 philosophy tomes each instead of 1 gil, people would kill the shit out of them. Either way, they should work on a fix for the sac run exploitation. +2 enmity for the puller and +1 enmity for the rest of the party would be a good fix. It will also do what I submitted feedback for a long ass time ago - adding monsters other people pull to the monster list.

Maybe they should make mobs or chests in the dungeon drop those crafting mats too....

I guess I will add that this game is far from launch-finished. I can't even call it 2.0 anymore. This is more like 1.3, since its a nice step up from 1.2.

Well Seems I got banned for language on my other account....... Besides using the Demon wall glitch I don't see why anyone on here would even be upset with skipping some mobs! Are you kidding me? After running Castrum about 30 times and I still have another 28 times to run it and then I found out today I need an extra 900 tomes on top for what I need on my relic weapon Speed running is the fastest way to get stuff done. Its so BORING! unless your in a FC group that doesn't need to be told what to do, some dungeon runs take forever. Maybe when some of you posting realize speed running is the way to get your gear you'll suck it up and do it. But if you want to get 40k tomes slow go ahead. But don't hurt the rest of us because you don't want to skip a few mobs. Some people want to speed things up Ver 2.1 is around the corner.

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Originally Posted by Kalamari

I also don't think trash should be just a pain to clear, the idea of them dropping gil or company seals would be a great step towards that.

What would also be sweet is if trash dropped frequently high quality crafting materials, or maybe a small chance to drop unique equipment pieces.

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I don't do crafting and unless the gear is better than the gear i'm speed running for or what i have, it has no use to me. So both are moot.

Trash mobs dont drop gil.
Trash mobs dont drop grand company seals.
Trash mobs dont drop loot.
Trash mobs dont give experience.

Explain to me again why you want me to kill them.

It'd be great if they add gil drops to the trash mobs. I'd love to see the conversations that pop up in-game around that.

Player 1: "Speed run?"
Player 2: "Nonono, wait, I need gil to repair my gear."

I wouldn't mind that, honestly. It sounds pretty funny.

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Originally Posted by Tari-F

It'd be great if they add gil drops to the trash mobs. I'd love to see the conversations that pop up in-game around that.

Player 1: "Speed run?"
Player 2: "Nonono, wait, I need gil to repair my gear."

I wouldn't mind that, honestly. It sounds pretty funny.

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Haha that would be awesome XD

Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Eliseus

Sounds like something to brag about.

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It's the same thing as speed runs. An exploit to save time/make your life easier. Get mad about it though that's the trick.

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

It's the same thing as speed runs. An exploit to save time/make your life easier. Get mad about it though that's the trick.

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Speed run =/ exploiting a boss. It's like you are trying to say an apple is a pear because they are both fruits.

You can sneak past alot of mobs in amdapur keep too. You do that very easily to skip trash before demon wall.

Op is jelly maybe because he cant do speed runs :3


Tbh speed runs is hard as hell as well. I tried doing quick runs with pugs and we cant get past the 2nd boss

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

It's the same thing as speed runs. An exploit to save time/make your life easier. Get mad about it though that's the trick.

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No, it's not the same, avoiding trash without abusing glitches, terrain or the like, is not an exploit. Also I'm pretty sure spreading exploits here goes against forum policy, and I'm sure you're aware of just how stupid it is of you to showcase your own video abusing a glitch on the official forums.

Tbh this is just normal, we just have 2 level 50 dungeons and this is the only one that drops the weekly marks.
They force you to farm it. You would get really burned if you had to run it killing all the trash over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Menubrea

No, it's not the same, avoiding trash without abusing glitches, terrain or the like, is not an exploit. Also I'm pretty sure spreading exploits here goes against forum policy, and I'm sure you're aware of just how stupid it is of you to showcase your own video abusing a glitch on the official forums.

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Abusing? THE VIDEO CLEARLY SHOWS THAT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
Get smart.

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

Abusing? THE VIDEO CLEARLY SHOWS THAT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.
Get smart.

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

Will post a video doing the entire thing(I have recreated it, it works every time.)

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This comment suggests you know how to recreate the glitch and have done so several times already.

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Originally Posted by Menubrea

This comment suggests you know how to recreate the glitch and have done so several times already.

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Had to figure out how it was done so I could spread the word and get it taken care of. What's not to get?

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

Had to figure out how it was done so I could spread the word and get it taken care of. What's not to get?

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Because following your before mentioned comment you say this:

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

It's the same thing as speed runs. An exploit to save time/make your life easier. Get mad about it though that's the trick.

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You make it sound al-right.

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Originally Posted by Menubrea

Because following your before mentioned comment you say this:



You make it sound al-right.

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In my opinion it is but it should be fixed it's an exploit, some people are saying speed runs are an exploit of AI. Demon Wall is the same thing, so if speed runs are okay, it should be okay. Just my two cents.

Quick, everyone need's to do speed runs before the whiners get it slowed right down.

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Originally Posted by Astralis

Op is jelly maybe because he cant do speed runs :3


Tbh speed runs is hard as hell as well. I tried doing quick runs with pugs and we cant get past the 2nd boss

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/873188/

Yeah, it's soooo hard. Stop trying to troll. -.-

I expect SE to change this game mechanic in one of the upcoming patches, either by forcing players to fight the trash mobs, or by incentivizing them to do so. That said, until that patch occurs, there is no reason people shouldn't be speed running the dungeon.

The only problem with the constant speed running is the effect it has on the community and the use of duty finder. This is less an issue with the speed running itself, and more an issue with the group of impatient folks who rushed to end-game and proceeded to rage at newer/slower players (in duty finder, no less). Not everyone is like that, but there is a quite vocal group of those players, unfortunately.

Stop comparing this to WoW dungeons that forced trash clear. WoW trash mobs dropped a reasonable amount of gold, a chance of a world epic or dungeon specific epic, or crafting materials.

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Originally Posted by Tari-F

I expect SE to change this game mechanic in one of the upcoming patches, either by forcing players to fight the trash mobs, or by incentivizing them to do so. That said, until that patch occurs, there is no reason people shouldn't be speed running the dungeon.

The only problem with the constant speed running is the effect it has on the community and the use of duty finder. This is less an issue with the speed running itself, and more an issue with the group of impatient folks who rushed to end-game and proceeded to rage at newer/slower players (in duty finder, no less). Not everyone is like that, but there is a quite vocal group of those players, unfortunately.

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I don't have an issue with speed running, but I can't wait til me and the gf run into a group of folks yelling at us to skip the cutscenes. Sounds like a great opportunity for maximum trolling.

What about people in Castrum Meridianum that dont kill everything? That is an exploit too i asume right

I would hardly call this an exploit. Admittedly, I hate it, but I wouldn't call it an exploit.

It's not an exploit it's poor dungeon design. GW2 is the same, i think people still skip Kholer if the troll doesn't spawn.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

As anyone who's ran this dungeon would know, speed-running via death+raising is the only accepted way to go now. I can't blame people for wanting to breeze through it, but I'm curious what SE's opinion on this is?
There is also a lesser used exploit regarding Demon Wall, and glitching him. I've never known it to be successful personally, but I have had to misfortune of weaker players trying to get it to work in pick-up groups. >.>

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It's not an exploit. You can do this in any dungeon. There isn't any reasonable way to prevent sac pulls + dying and rezzing, and in fact it was a completely acceptable mechanic in older MMOs.

Part of the reason everyone skips the trash is there's no reason to fight it, in low level dungeons you want the EXP so you kill everything. Here though, you don't.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

What about people in Castrum Meridianum that dont kill everything? That is an exploit too i asume right

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Yup, totally the same thing! Please engage brain before posting.

Regardless, and what many people fail to understand, is I'm not trying to condemn the players for taking the easy way out. I'm just curious as to what SE's stance on the matter is, and whether we have to be worried or not. I suppose considering 99% of players running the dungeon do it this way, there's no way they'd punish us now.
SE might consider it an "exploit," they may not. It's certainly an abuse of poor game mechanics, and that's been enough to warrant banning before.

Magitek barriers like in Darkhold.

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There is no skill in the game that will make you immune to the wrath of 30 level 50 mobs for 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Unaki

There is no skill in the game that will make you immune to the wrath of 30 level 50 mobs for 10 seconds.

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Hallowed ground, 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Hallowed ground, 10 seconds.

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Doesn't protect you from the Dullahan AOE

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Originally Posted by Neasa

Yup, totally the same thing! Please engage brain before posting.

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You are evading mobs that are consider trash mobs so yeah basically the same thing in both. One use the sac pull and the other you try not to aggro. Two different tactics for two different type of dungeon. Before insulting try to understand first.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

Regardless, and what many people fail to understand, is I'm not trying to condemn the players for taking the easy way out. I'm just curious as to what SE's stance on the matter is, and whether we have to be worried or not. I suppose considering 99% of players running the dungeon do it this way, there's no way they'd punish us now.
SE might consider it an "exploit," they may not. It's certainly an abuse of poor game mechanics, and that's been enough to warrant banning before.

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Considering how sac pulling was never a bannable offense in FFXI, I think you're grasping at straws. Exploiting AI mechanics - that's offense worthy, but not doing dungeon's the way a minority (albeit a bloody loud one) wish for - meh. I'd say leave as is. If people want to burn their precious gil on repairs, let them - but while we can skip huge repair bills.. I and many others wouldn't wish to have the minority's playstyle forced on us.