[suggestion] Bring back skillchains/magic bursts

BR is amazing IF its working all the time. Yes for end game mobs in middle of no where and less lag its awesome. Don't go assuming everyone else is idiots for not knowing how to use it. Its really not that much of a secret and not rocket science.

BR one issue as already being mentioned it totally fails when there is lag. And if you are near any busy camp you are stuck. One of the biggest problems is not able to closing it. Yea we can pull it off every time in Coerthas and it works awesome especially all the different affects to accommodate the mob you are fighting.

I am sure some are thinking and already saying... you don't need it for leve mobs, they are too easy... this is true, then this leads to one of the major failures for FFXIV lack of content. For some of us hitting action buttons isn't enough. WHY can't we have something rewarding for pulling off some cool combinations or something. Instead of just smashing action buttons till mob is dead. Because I am sorry all the fancy SAME looking WS is not doing it for me.

Skillchains are awesome. Period. They also required you to time things, rather than queue them up, and I have yet to hear much good about the BR system. I would like to see SC/MB in XIV.

I'm all for putting skillchains and Magic bursts into FFXIV, especially if they added the debuffs that occur in battle regimens to the elemental affinities from skill chains.

Right now battle regimens are just a simplified skill chain system that locks you out of using any abilities until it goes off. For those of you who like this why not simplify it even further and make it so you can setup several battle regimens before you even start a battle, that way you can remove any little remaining bit of challenge of working as a team.

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Originally Posted by Steggun

Right now battle regimens are just a simplified skill chain system that locks you out of using any abilities until it goes off. For those of you who like this why not simplify it even further and make it so you can setup several battle regimens before you even start a battle, that way you can remove any little remaining bit of challenge of working as a team.

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You have no clue of what you're talking about.

Battle Regimen is amazing for party play.

Some are claiming that the BR funtion isn't intuitive enough. This is not the case at all. It seems that some of the players aren't intuitive enough the use the skills that SE has given us. Macros + Battle Regimen ='s Amazing. Aside from BR glitching on Dodos, being a bit laggy and requiring some cool combined ability effects (Trunk Splitter + Fire ='s Fire Wedge + Huge Damage).
Some people don't realize if they are out of range to attack.... glitch, about to be put to sleep..... glitch.... you get the idea. They are not really glitches, this is stuff that happens in battle.

SE doesn't, and I'm not gonna either, hold your hand that is, and tell you how to properly set up Macros and Battle Regimen. That's for you to figure out (It's super easy, honestly). I'm just here to say the system itself is great if you know how to use it and that it should be only improved on and not replaced.
If you wanna join up for a party. I can show you what it's all about.

Skill chains REQUIRE the exclusion of other player's actions to function properly

This was ok in FFXI because most damage came from Auto Attack

BR's can include everyone whether small or large groups.

Nostalgia for FFXI is understandable; but if you really want skill chains you're going to have to address ALL the significant hurdles that have to be overcome.

The LS im in does BR often, infact there are a few mobs in leves we can kill w/o using BR (mongrols on a 4 star with 6 people as they drain to full too fast).

I have seen a lot of good ideas here, and I agree it would be nice if you could continue to attack (auto attack) after you start a BR.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

Skill chains REQUIRE the exclusion of other player's actions to function properly

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What? Now that's skewed. I'm not going to smash your mouth and say you're wrong, the only difference once after a lot of black mage's became extinct in parties there wasn't really a need for them anymore besides the one's that would do most damage. (Like a Thief's SATA+Shark Bite) When back in the day I remember leveling up my Samurai, everyone skillchained with everyone. I had two potential skillchain partners thanks to my meditate ability, and the tank and thief would work together to do their own thing. Everyone was involved. Only one I didn't see involved was the healer.

Before you go on a rant about something as simple as this topic, learn to get your facts checked. I'm all for BR, but some of it needs a little change to become more fun. I simply think it's rather moronic all you do is make a quene like some new phone at the Best Buy store.

"Roaran's mother, please come to the front of the store. Roaran's mother, to the front, please. He misses mommy."

i haven't really gotten a chance to play with BR but Skillchains and Magic Bursts were tons of fun back in FFXI, and i'd love to see them here :D

Well, since we're all comparing BR's in FFXIV to SC/MB in FFXI, I gotta say that as a SAM and BLU (and now Empyrean WAR, gogo ukko-ukko lights) that BR can actually be much more reliable than SC's when used properly. You might all complain about how clunky it is, and I'll admit that I'm really not schooled properly in how to implement it yet (mostly due to a lack of party play experience since I'm maining GLD,) but it really is much easier to churn out an EXPECTED BR than to have someone screw up your self-skillchain no matter how many calls you put in your stupid party macro saying SELF SKILLCHAIN. Nobody came into FFXI knowing how to skillchain off the bat anyways, any FFXI player should remember that one party in the dunes or Qufim where the veterans taught the newer players how to skillchain, and you'd do it just for practice even though it pretty much WAS ineffective at those levels especially without a BLM in party. Because it looked flashy and cool.

On that note as well, skillchains/magic bursts are pretty much dead now anyways since you have 18 people whacking away/nuking at whatever mob you're killing in Abyssea... and even before that in normal merit parties since everyone TP burned on pink birds.

And yes, flashy animations on BR's would make all of this easier to spot the effects, not to mention looking pretty spiffy and encouraging newer players to at least practice how to do them.

That's a very good argument. I agree that SC has lost it's flavour in the XI community. I never wanted BR scrapped for SC's, just a little more tweaks to make it less boring and more pleasing. It would be nice, however, to bring back that player coordination that the SC's once had in XI.

I considered XI dead for 3 years now, so I trust you when you tell me that SC is non-existant anymore. It's just so sad that it has come down to just straight up, and I'm not joking, similar to the child game, "Whack-A-Mole" And don't even get me started on the raised level cap to 99...........Why couldn't they just let the game die quietly in peace? Now it's been raped and left for dead in a ditch.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I would suggest bringing back skillchains from FFXI.

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They can't even bring back skillchains in FFXI itself (and they never even left).

At least they did bring back WSNM's with the blue !! triggers...which I did all of 5 years ago. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW AT RETRIBUTION!!

I prefer BR to SC->MB by a lot. I would oppose ditching BR for SC+MB. I read most of the thread. Just posting to add my opinion I guess.

I think a few things need to be fixed for BR:

1 - the "lock out". Let me continue to take other actions as normal. Once someone initiates the actual execution of the BR lock everyone out *then* if you have to until the skills complete (or just no lock out at all).

2 - make it look more flashy. Add really cool distinct graphics to the unique effects. Maybe even separate out the base damage from the additional damage ("Soandso's Fire II hits the Suchandsuch for 400 points of damage! Battle Regimen adds 800 damage!" or something; like the "Magic Burst!" line in XI or something to let people know it was extra effective by a lot).

3 - I haven't found a BR to do yet while just grinding in a melee + mage duo that seemed super worth while. Maybe I just haven't experimented enough.

Just my opinion. Seems like there are strong feelings supporting both approaches.

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Originally Posted by moatcarp

I prefer BR to SC->MB by a lot. I would oppose ditching BR for SC+MB. I read most of the thread. Just posting to add my opinion I guess.

I think a few things need to be fixed for BR:

1 - the "lock out". Let me continue to take other actions as normal. Once someone initiates the actual execution of the BR lock everyone out *then* if you have to until the skills complete (or just no lock out at all).

2 - make it look more flashy. Add really cool distinct graphics to the unique effects. Maybe even separate out the base damage from the additional damage ("Soandso's Fire II hits the Suchandsuch for 400 points of damage! Battle Regimen adds 800 damage!" or something; like the "Magic Burst!" line in XI or something to let people know it was extra effective by a lot).

3 - I haven't found a BR to do yet while just grinding in a melee + mage duo that seemed super worth while. Maybe I just haven't experimented enough.

Just my opinion. Seems like there are strong feelings supporting both approaches.

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Great options. For me, I would really love a little more co-operation as was instilled in a FFXI SC.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

You have no clue of what you're talking about.

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Is that right? So I'm just imagining that I cannot use any abilities after I entered my attack/WS into the BR queue until the BR is completed? Or maybe I'm just imagining that the BR system is exactly the same basic concept of skill chains except instead of timing my WS with other party members I just enter my WS when my turn in the BR queue comes, then wait for the person who started the BR to just hit one button to make everyone involved in the BR use their ability’s?

You sir are the one that has no clue what you're talking about.

Instead of fighting over this, list some alternatives that we could use. Ways that would help the BR system become a better system. No point in smashing each other over a game. Drop your spite for one another and give the development team something to work with.

I personally wouldn't mind an upgraded skill chain/magic bust system. By upgraded I mean combine the elemental affinities/timing aspects of the old SC/MB system and then add in the debuffs/massive damage from the BR system.

Or something similar to the system described in this thread would also work well I think.

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Originally Posted by Steggun

I'm all for putting skillchains and Magic bursts into FFXIV, especially if they added the debuffs that occur in battle regimens to the elemental affinities from skill chains.

Right now battle regimens are just a simplified skill chain system that locks you out of using any abilities until it goes off. For those of you who like this why not simplify it even further and make it so you can setup several battle regimens before you even start a battle, that way you can remove any little remaining bit of challenge of working as a team.

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You have no clue of what you're talking about. Period.

Just like everyone else on this thread that can't realize that there already is a SC and MB system hidden in the BR system (that's pretty funny) you're just too lazy to find it out.

BR are symplified SC in terms of executions, but they're much more powerful and open to possibilities and they require an amazing team work if you want them to work at his best. Just because you can perform it throwing in any skill that comes to your mind it doesn't mean it's the way it's supposed to be done.

Omg all of my posts end up in the same way... don't blame the devs if you're choosing to play in the dumbest way.


EDIT: I forgot the locking out part, that's the best thing! You have to be quick coz your comrades are waiting for you, if someone makes a mistake all of the group has to wait for him to get back, how can you say there's no teamwork?? I can understand that it's hard to get a fast BR in a random leveling party, but since they can be executed from 2 to 8 people I can't see where's the problem: big BR for the endgame with a well trained party and small BR for random parties, both of them are working fine.

So, I've been doing BR a lot more in parties after I hit 40+ (to speed up kill speed). We basically have just been throwing any WS in and closing with the elemental weakness of the mob we are fighting.

All these posts about how you're doing it wrong if you're just throwing any random skills in make me wonder if there are specific WS that work better together (like SC in XI). Is that the case? Does someone have a good guide to this information? Is there any indication if you have done a good combination of skills vs. a lackluster one (other than the damage number you see at the end)?

Generally on Gladiator I just use Luminous Spire to lower magic defense on the mob (assuming that it will help the damage of the nuke that closes the BR). I also try to go first in the BR if I can because GLA does less damage than DD jobs.

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Originally Posted by moatcarp

So, I've been doing BR a lot more in parties after I hit 40+ (to speed up kill speed). We basically have just been throwing any WS in and closing with the elemental weakness of the mob we are fighting.

All these posts about how you're doing it wrong if you're just throwing any random skills in make me wonder if there are specific WS that work better together (like SC in XI). Is that the case? Does someone have a good guide to this information? Is there any indication if you have done a good combination of skills vs. a lackluster one (other than the damage number you see at the end)?

Generally on Gladiator I just use Luminous Spire to lower magic defense on the mob (assuming that it will help the damage of the nuke that closes the BR). I also try to go first in the BR if I can because GLA does less damage than DD jobs.

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You won't find any guide, because every LS is pretty jealous of their tactics, also because SE gave really few hints about BR, you just have to grab some friends and test while grinding ;)

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Originally Posted by Alcide

You won't find any guide, because every LS is pretty jealous of their tactics, also because SE gave really few hints about BR, you just have to grab some friends and test while grinding ;)

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Maybe that's why so many people in the thread think BR are crap then. In XI everyone used printed out WS charts to know which abilities to use.

I'll admit, BR's are something I don't properly understand just yet, so please refrain from flaming the bejezus out of me.

I really really enjoyed skillchains in FFXI. I think this is mostly because it took some real planning and timing to properly execute, and you couldn't always just mash together whatever abilities you had. From what I've seen so far with the current getup is that this just isn't as rewarding or fun to execute. I don't want an automated system because I like being engaged in the timing and execution of a fight. As a reminder, these are just my perceptions after a few months of playing.

Yeah. I don't mind BR just wish it was more engaging than picking my ability and waiting. I do not see how you, Alcide, are basically saying, "Well. If you're good enough, you don't have to wait." over the problem everyone is facing over being locked out until the BR is completed. What about those who aren't, "Good enough?" I don't see a problem with an auto-attack feature implemented back while you wait for the BR. To tell you the truth, I completely hate the action bar....It doesn't seem like a FF game in my book.....More like WoW or Aion and etc.

Again this is not a post about bashing BR, just something that'll hopefully make EVERYONE enjoy it rather than a simple few who test it for hours upon hours.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

You have no clue of what you're talking about. Period.

Just like everyone else on this thread that can't realize that there already is a SC and MB system hidden in the BR system (that's pretty funny) you're just too lazy to find it out.

BR are symplified SC in terms of executions, but they're much more powerful and open to possibilities and they require an amazing team work if you want them to work at his best. Just because you can perform it throwing in any skill that comes to your mind it doesn't mean it's the way it's supposed to be done.

Omg all of my posts end up in the same way... don't blame the devs if you're choosing to play in the dumbest way.


EDIT: I forgot the locking out part, that's the best thing! You have to be quick coz your comrades are waiting for you, if someone makes a mistake all of the group has to wait for him to get back, how can you say there's no teamwork?? I can understand that it's hard to get a fast BR in a random leveling party, but since they can be executed from 2 to 8 people I can't see where's the problem: big BR for the endgame with a well trained party and small BR for random parties, both of them are working fine.

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I never denied that BR are more powerful than SC/MB, I'm all for keeping that aspect. But what you consider teamwork I consider a flaw, and a serious one at that.

You can shut your eyes and cover your ears and keep telling yourself that BR are perfectly fine the way they are. But in my opinion they are not, and it's obvious that I am not alone.

Just because BR can cause massive damage and debuffs does not mean the system is flawless. The end results of the BR system are great, but the steps leading up to that result are not.

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Originally Posted by Steggun

I never denied that BR are more powerful than SC/MB, I'm all for keeping that aspect. But what you consider teamwork I consider a flaw, and a serious one at that.

You can shut your eyes and cover your ears and keep telling yourself that BR are perfectly fine the way they are. But in my opinion they are not, and it's obvious that I am not alone.

Just because BR can cause massive damage and debuffs does not mean the system is flawless. The end results of the BR system are great, but the steps leading up to that result are not.

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Couldn't of said it better myself......Why is it that everyone posting in favor of doing nothing is basically acting like the Little Rascals when it comes to talking about bringing girls in the clubhouse? "NO NO NO NO NO! THEY'RE GIRLY!!!"

We're trying to make it MORE ENJOYABLE for the rest of the population. Not the 3% that spend their lonely hours finding different and better methods of the BR combinations......

BR definitely have the potential to be better and achieve more than skillchains/magic bursts. Against NM's they really shine. You can be using BR's constantly for a much easier fight.

If they are still considering auto-attack, it might be a big improvement to be able to stick on auto-attack whilst your WS is stacked in a BR.

Also, as a mage I'd love the ability to throw a cure out when in a BR too

And how is an auto attack helping? You still woudln't be able to do anything, it would be just a dot... really challenging :O big improvement.

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Originally Posted by Kimahri

We're trying to make it MORE ENJOYABLE for the rest of the population. Not the 3% that spend their lonely hours finding different and better methods of the BR combinations......

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o.O is that what I said? REALLY?? Do you really think someone would find BR great because of this???
What I meant is that SE didn't give any valuable info about BR, so we have a system with a great versatility and a great potential but we don't know what's the best way to use it, SO we have to make tests and find out how they're working. I didn't mean it is something good, they MUST give us more info (though I had a great time testing, but it's just because of my ls mates).

For instance, one thing I love about BR and about the fact that you have to wait for the others in order to perform your action is that it makes different strategies valuable for different occasions, in exemple you want the "WS buff" BR to be performed by everyone during NM fights to deal massive demage and in this occasions it won't take too much time since every member of the party should be trained on what he has to do; on leves or while grinding you don't want everyone to join the BR, you would wait too much time and it wouldn't be worth it, it's much better to have continuous "def down" and "TP debuff" BR of 2-3 people going on during the whole fight.

And I'm not saying they are perfect the way they are now, I agree sometimes it takes way too much time to perform a well working BR, so maybe lowering the number of partecipants from 8 to 6 would help; also I'd love to see different types of BR, maybe with elemental affinity like SC, and a combo-like system would be something amazing (though I think would be pretty difficult to develop in a mmo) but still I love the core of the system and I think it's much better then SC.

I honestly think that if SE gave us a tutorial, a guide or just more infos on how BR is working people would love them, the main issue of this system is the total lack of communication.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

if it was perfect, my friend, everyone would use it.

The fact that almost no one uses the system is a clear signal of the fact that it's not perfect, isn't it?

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R1-40 there is no point in using them, battles don't last long enough.. mostly just to use as added damage

The point here is that SE didn't explain how BRs work. It is true, those are mostly trash till r40 (tho def down is a good friend), but it doesn't mean they have no point. In ff11 grind party we used to have fights that could last 1 minute against tough mobs. We don't get this here, fights usually last some seconds and there is no way skillchains are going to be useful. If you miss the old skillchains it is not because those aren't in game, because the battle regimens are the same thing. Ok, there is no animation, but skills in br get boosted in damage. Against a NM they make the difference. Obviously I'm not giving away more things I know about this (Alcide will in time, I'm sure), but there is way more than just queuing skills for an added damage. Search unofficial forums and you will find out many things. If you are on Lindblum come and watch Delirium or Fairytale taking down a NM, there is much you can understand. We discovered pretty much all we know by ourselves, doing experiments and it is the same exact way people found out skillchains in ff11. And it's not that we are too selfish to give out informations. SE can, but didn't until now. Remember Absolute Virtue. They want us to find out how things work.

Just a hint. We call every BR on teamspeak. People must be ready to enter. Leader calls, let's assume 1 second for each person to enter (sometimes less) and you get your BR full in 8 seconds.

Bribe me...

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Originally Posted by jmp

The point here is that SE didn't explain how BRs work. It is true, those are mostly trash till r40 (tho def down is a good friend), but it doesn't mean they have no point. In ff11 grind party we used to have fights that could last 1 minute against tough mobs. We don't get this here, fights usually last some seconds and there is no way skillchains are going to be useful. If you miss the old skillchains it is not because those aren't in game, because the battle regimens are the same thing. Ok, there is no animation, but skills in br get boosted in damage.

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Agree 100% even SC would be useless before r40 in this scenario. And I really doubt we are ever gonna grind on any mob that lasts longer, the only way to make this system useful even at low ranks is to add midd rank NM.

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Originally Posted by jmp

Alcide will in time, I'm sure.

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I won't, I already said too much, if my ls leader happens to read this thread he's gonna kill me @_@
Unless I don't convince my mates that making a guide would let this system survive, but I don't think it's gonna happen :D

Heh. I don't see why everyone is keeping BRs such a big secret i'll give out the info for free.

From what everyone has already said BRs are pretty much ineffective and useless unless its used against big HP mobs like NMs.

Well this is how a BR should be done for optimal damage:

First you do what we call a "Normal BR" this is to debuff the NM's def and mdef
and it goes like this: Normal Melee >> Normal Melee >> Spirit/Phantom Dart

Debuff doesn't last very long so you have to be quick. Your leader will call out a second BR we call this the "Damage BR"
This BR can go two ways depending on how your party is set up. If you have more Melee DD in your party its going to be: Magic >> Magic >> all other weaponskills go. If your party has more casters then its: Weaponskill >> Weaponskill >> All Magic go. Before you queue up into a BR make sure to use all your buffs (Raging Strike II, Ferocity II, Hawk's Eye, Profundity, etc.)

Executing BRs require very little coordination and the results are tremendous on NMs. Personally I've done up to 1k+ on Great Buffalo and 1.7k+ on Dodore as Arc and sometimes even as Pug.

On good nights my linkshell can even down a NM 4-5 times in one gameday given we find his respawns quick enough.

Oh btw being 8th in a BR does give you the biggest damage boost.

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Originally Posted by Honz

Heh. I don't see why everyone is keeping BRs such a big secret i'll give out the info for free.

From what everyone has already said BRs are pretty much ineffective and useless unless its used against big HP mobs like NMs.

Well this is how a BR should be done for optimal damage:

First you do what we call a "Normal BR" this is to debuff the NM's def and mdef
and it goes like this: Normal Melee >> Normal Melee >> Spirit/Phantom Dart

Debuff doesn't last very long so you have to be quick. Your leader will call out a second BR we call this the "Damage BR"
This BR can go two ways depending on how your party is set up. If you have more Melee DD in your party its going to be: Magic >> Magic >> all other weaponskills go. If your party has more casters then its: Weaponskill >> Weaponskill >> All Magic go. Before you que up into a BR make sure to use all your buffs (Raging Strike II, Ferocity II, Hawk's Eye, Profundity, etc.)

Executing BRs require very little coordination and the results are tremendous on NMs. Personally I've done up to 1k+ on Great Buffalo and 1.7k+ on Dodore as Arc and sometimes even as Pug.

On good nights my linkshell can even down a NM 4-5 times in one gameday given we find his respawns quick enough.

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fail :D

Nowhere near the secrets I was talking about ;)
When I talk about things that people don't know I mean it.

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Originally Posted by Honz

Heh. I don't see why everyone is keeping BRs such a big secret i'll give out the info for free.

From what everyone has already said BRs are pretty much ineffective and useless unless its used against big HP mobs like NMs.

Well this is how a BR should be done for optimal damage:

First you do what we call a "Normal BR" this is to debuff the NM's def and mdef
and it goes like this: Normal Melee >> Normal Melee >> Spirit/Phantom Dart

Debuff doesn't last very long so you have to be quick. Your leader will call out a second BR we call this the "Damage BR"
This BR can go two ways depending on how your party is set up. If you have more Melee DD in your party its going to be: Magic >> Magic >> all other weaponskills go. If your party has more casters then its: Weaponskill >> Weaponskill >> All Magic go. Before you que up into a BR make sure to use all your buffs (Raging Strike II, Ferocity II, Hawk's Eye, Profundity, etc.)

Executing BRs require very little coordination and the results are tremendous on NMs. Personally I've done up to 1k+ on Great Buffalo and 1.7k+ on Dodore as Arc and sometimes even as Pug.

On good nights my linkshell can even down a NM 4-5 times in one gameday given we find his respawns quick enough.

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Everything's right, but there's more then this :P

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Originally Posted by jmp

fail :D

Nowhere near the secrets I was talking about ;)

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What? That you can jump into a BR during a BR to get dmg boost as well? Therefore have a unlimited amount of people do a BR? Thats not a big secret bro lots of people on my server already know.

edit.
To clear things up for people that don't know what I'm trying to get through. If you time a spell, weapon skill or even a normal attack correctly you can get a massive damage boost if you execute it while a BR is being released. Never thought people would think this is a big secret since most big linkshells already know of it. From what I see people who haven't done NMs don't know how to execute a good BR just trying to share good info is all.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Everything's right, but there's more then this :P

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I'm actually impressed Alcide. I wonder if you understood the tactics you are using :P
I'll report you to Zabusa for your unknowledge of NM tactics

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Originally Posted by Honz

What that you can jump into a BR during a during a get a dmg boost as well? Therefore have a unlimited amount of people do a BR? Thats not a big secret bro lots of people on my server already know.

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Way to go, that's more interesting. I'm glad someone on this forum actually knows what he speaks about.
Still more tho.

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Originally Posted by jmp

Way to go, that's more interesting. I'm glad someone on this forum actually knows what he speaks about.
Still more tho.

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I get the feeling you're trolling. You mention that you know the secrets of BR and they are so mind blowing that you dare not speak them. Although, only Honz has delivered on actual information on BR you still sit there and say you know even more.

Bottom line is if you know something, please tell the community rather than troll it because you're not impressing anyone. :)

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Originally Posted by Gezeru

I get the feeling you're trolling. You mention that you know the secrets of BR and they are so mind blowing that you dare not speak them. Although, only Honz has delivered on actual information on BR you still sit there and say you know even more.

Bottom line is if you know something, please tell the community rather than troll it because you're not impressing anyone. :)

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Ls leaders would be very unpleased. So feel free to say I'm trolling, but I'm not gonna tell you what I know. Want to play hot and cold? It's ok with me, I can tell you how close you are, but I'm not gonna be the first one revealing things.

Probably last post on this topic. So I won't troll anymore ;)

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Originally Posted by jmp

Ls leaders would be very unpleased. So feel free to say I'm trolling, but I'm not gonna tell you what I know. Want to play hot and cold? It's ok with me, I can tell you how close you are, but I'm not gonna be the first one revealing things.

Probably last post on this topic. So I won't troll anymore ;)

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Exactly you are only proving the point that you know absolutely nothing. I'm also gonna call you out on trolling as well and until proven otherwise.

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Originally Posted by jmp

I'm actually impressed Alcide. I wonder if you understood the tactics you are using :P
I'll report you to Zabusa for your unknowledge of NM tactics

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Noooo don't do it D: I meant what he said is actually fine, still better then throwing in everything, but I know there's far more, I was there with Zabusa and the others when we started testing :P

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Originally Posted by Gezeru

Bottom line is if you know something, please tell the community rather than troll it because you're not impressing anyone. :)

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It's not that we are trolling, I want this system to survive to the whole "do whatever the not-playing-people want" thing so I'm here giving hints, hoping that people will try out different settings and find out how amazing this system is, but still I understand why my ls mates don't want to divulgate our tactics so I can't say everything.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Honz

Exactly you are only proving the point that you know absolutely nothing. I'm also gonna call you out on trolling as well and until proven otherwise.

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Call us whatever you want, but there will be a time when me and Jmp will say we told ya :p