dev1031 You are losing your main playerbase by making things too easy/fast/casual

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

You are narrowminded.

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really ? this test http://www.funquizcards.com/quiz/per...inded-test.php say I am

More open minded
You are more open minded than narrow minded.

:<

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

@kanjitai there are many games for you out there on the market already, we don't need more. Hardcore players don't have a game at all for them, share please? ;_; We wanna have fun too!

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There are plenty of hardcore games out there, obviously what you mean is in the MMO genre particularly and as I have said before game developers are moving away from this for a reason, because casual gamers = more money.

You say casuals quit after a few months, so tell me why is WoW's userbase still growing ?

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I disagree with the poster of this message 100%

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Grrrr! Darned Diplomats! Stop saying things I agree with! ^_^

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Originally Posted by Jinko

There are plenty of hardcore games out there, obviously what you mean is in the MMO genre particularly and as I have said before game developers are moving away from this for a reason, because casual gamers = more money.

You say casuals quit after a few months, so tell me why is WoW's userbase still growing ?

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and base from where if I may ask ? as I meet wow player quitting the game at other mmo forum, so w/o solid of info of wow is growing, I wont belive it.

I see (and partially agree with) the original poster's point that combat is too easy, but I must strongly disagree with the principle that "the game is too casual".

The two are not the same thing, and the relative ease of combat should not be interpreted as being casual-friendly. Just like difficult combat should not be equated to hardcore gameplay.

Square-Enix can increase the difficulty of combat AND keep the game casual-friendly. More potent enemy abilities, more intelligent enemy AI are just a couple of ways.

I think the problem is Shiyo wants to do camp for an hour for substandard gear, so they have something to do. I do see how the mobs being rarer adds to the excitement factor when you do see it, but in a game with a population, like ffxi was, it basically leads to 90% of the people never doing the content, and rarely at a level appropriate time. How many people fought leaping lizzy at level 11? Most people never got to fight Mee Degi the punisher.
This was a move to create content that people who were actually that level would seek, and make it so they could actually try to obtain it. trying to beat those nms, with level appropriate groups, is about on par with how good the drops are. They took down the thrill of the rare sighting, but increased the joy of trying to obtain an item you want, with a challenging fight that doesnt require you to do some inane, irrelevant other task to do it, like killing 1 bird every 5 minutes for 1-3 hours, for a 30 second fight.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

SE, you are losing your main playerbase and main followers(old FFXI players/hardcore players) by trying to make this game more casual and accessible for all players. The new NM's you released in yesterdays patch demonstrate this. 3-5 min repops, not even rare drops? Really? Everyone is going to have this gear in 1 day to a week. Spending 3-6 months to design and release content that'll only last a day to a week is BAD DESIGN. In FFXI all your content lasted YEARS, which was great! It kept people playing and paying for their subs! More $$. What are the players supposed to do after they beat this content in 1-7 days that took 3-6 months to release? Nothing, they'll cancel their subs and quit, or become very bored and eventually quit. FFXI lasted 8 years because it's niche in the MMO market was hardcore/hard, pretty much no other MMO in the market at the time fit in that niche, allowing the game to grow and stay alive for years. To this day, the same can be said, except FFXI no longer fills that niche, no game does. FFXIV should follow and become the hardcore/hard game that FFXI once was.

Why you ask? The reason is simple, casual gamers may make up the majority, but they won't stick around forever, they'll get bored after a few months, and move onto better casual games such as Rift or WOW. These games are much better for casual gamers, and more people play them allowing them to play with irl friends/family/etc more easily. Hardcore players on the other hand, they'll stick around forever. Most of the hardcore players(pretty much all) stayed around in FFXI for YEARS, 5-8 years, an insane amount of time, because the game was perfect for them, and they still had things they wanted, things they needed to get done, level, drops, etc. The game took time and dedication, so even the most hardcore had to play it for 5+ years to get everything they wanted.



Please, I beg of you, do not turn this game into a casual western-MMO like every other MMO on the market, we have far too many of them already, why not try to fit the niche of hardcore/hard and take those players, instead of trying to steal players from other games(and fail doing so)? There is currently ZERO mmos that are hardcore/hard on the market ATM, this would be a very wise decision, and if you read the forums you'll see many FFXI veterans complaining about the direction this game is going.

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^^ hit the point

i see all the casual crowd happy with the content added to them. i am happy for you guys, but as i asked earlier everyone overlooked was what happens when the casual crowd gets to higher levels and there is nothing to do then? the only thing i said is that if they added 20 new nm's then a few of them should have been aimed at the higher level/hardcore members. i have no problem with them catering to a certain group, but it is not right to completely neglect the other group.

OP makes it so crystal clear it's impossible not to see it.
Thank you for putting into words all of my thoughts about this game.

I can understand SE efforts to widening their appeal to more people, but this will hardly working and it's undermining both the fidelity of the hardcore playerbase and the appeal of SE in general.
Everything in its right place. It's that simple.

I would never dream of going to WoW\Rift forum asking for hardcore content.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i see all the casual crowd happy with the content added to them. i am happy for you guys, but as i asked earlier everyone overlooked was what happens when the casual crowd gets to higher levels and there is nothing to do then? the only thing i said is that if they added 20 new nm's then a few of them should have been aimed at the higher level/hardcore members. i have no problem with them catering to a certain group, but it is not right to completely neglect the other group.

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FFXI was just a game, it had no set market to sell to, it wasn't catering to casual or hardcore. It was simply a good MMORPG, they made content, ignoring if it was "casual" or "hardcore" and the game did very well. Did they make money off of FFXI? Yep! Tons! I don't see why they need to change their style of doing business and creating video games.

With the direction video games in general are going(trying to please the casual crowd) I can see video games becoming really blah, and slowly dying for anyone who remembers what a real game was, making the games become very boring and bleh. Oh well, we still have 30ish years until this eventually happens.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

FFXI was just a game, it had no set market to sell to, it wasn't catering to casual or hardcore. It was simply a good MMORPG, they made content, ignoring if it was "casual" or "hardcore" and the game did very well. Did they make money off of FFXI? Yep! Tons! I don't see why they need to change their style of doing business and creating video games.

With the direction video games in general are going(trying to please the casual crowd) I can see video games becoming really blah, and slowly dying for anyone who remembers what a real game was, making the games become very boring and bleh. Oh well, we still have 30ish years until this eventually happens.

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but you are still ignoring the major point. if they put in 20 new nm's why did all 20 go to one group and say sorry we don't care for you to the other? all i said is out of 20 new nm's that a few should have been hardcore/higher level mobs.

yoshi is proving that he only cares about part of the base and does not care about the other part. this is the issue that i have with yoshi and wish tanaka was back in charge. if you want the game to be successful they need to cater to a wide range of people not just one group.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

but you are still ignoring the major point. if they put in 20 new nm's why did all 20 go to one group and say sorry we don't care for you to the other? all i said is out of 20 new nm's that a few should have been hardcore/higher level mobs.

yoshi is proving that he only cares about part of the base and does not care about the other part. this is the issue that i have with yoshi and wish tanaka was back in charge. if you want the game to be successful they need to cater to a wide range of people not just one group.

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I agree everyone is like "Yoshi" omg yes he going to fix this game but really all he done is make this Casual. He just not really doing much. Everything that be added to game was tanaka paperwork for months he just went saw it and cross the things he did not like and fix a few of them.

If yoshi going to make this game 100% casual then i like Tanaka to come back and add hardcore events for us.

Problem is you casual players don't want to meet in the middle only thinking about yourself we play this game meet us in the middle.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was ignoring that. I agree, it's dumb, and makes no sense, as I said in my OP it just shows that they are catering to the casuals and it's their main focus, leaving us oldschool FFXI/hardcore players behind.

If I remember correctly many players had the same complaint when the first and second wave of notorious monsters were released.

"They are ALL High Rank NMs. Where are the low-mid rank NMs?? This game is going in the wrong direction!!!"

Yesterday "high-rank players" got content. Today "mid-rank players" got content. Tomorrow ... who knows?? But in all cases "players" are getting content. Please keep it coming Mr. Yoshida. We have a funny way of showing it, but we do appreciate your work.

Thank you.

Ok, seriously this is getting old. ffxi was flawed, it was too hardcore and to much content that took up too much time. After WoW released ffxi started to slowly loose subs. FFxi also never really had sub increases like a few major increases like ps2 and 360 launch. But not much inbetween or after. Because of this, ffxi afrer 8 years of a slow bleed, had to merge servers. And not even 2 years after need to merge servers again.

The bigger issue is the self proclaim hardcores or "ffxi fan". Did you guys think you might be an issue? Look at how you act tward other players. A decent percent of hardcores are also elitists. Players who feel they are the best player and everyone must play like them. They insul and belittle anyone who refuses to do so. They also make the game not fun by making end game like a second work place.

I'm a long time ffxi player, I played since ps2 launch till feb 28th of this year. And only due to money issues. I'm a fan of ffxi, but i do see the flaws it had.

Casuals play games, hardcore have lives.

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Originally Posted by Mega

Casuals play games, hardcore have lives.

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I think it should be reverser ?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Ok, seriously this is getting old. ffxi was flawed, it was too hardcore and to much content that took up too much time. After WoW released ffxi started to slowly loose subs. FFxi also never really had sub increases like a few major increases like ps2 and 360 launch. But not much inbetween or after. Because of this, ffxi afrer 8 years of a slow bleed, had to merge servers. And not even 2 years after need to merge servers again.

The bigger issue is the self proclaim hardcores or "ffxi fan". Did you guys think you might be an issue? Look at how you act tward other players. A decent percent of hardcores are also elitists. Players who feel they are the best player and everyone must play like them. They insul and belittle anyone who refuses to do so. They also make the game not fun by making end game like a second work place.

I'm a long time ffxi player, I played since ps2 launch till feb 28th of this year. And only due to money issues. I'm a fan of ffxi, but i do see the flaws it had.

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There were a lot of 'hardcore' players who loved ffxi. Just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean everyone did. Please stop with your sob story. These forums are the worst thing that happened to this game.. honestly.

Se I am very happy with what you are doing. You will not loose me. I am doing what I need to do for end - game later at the moment anyway. I am ranking up my jobs and grinding. I know you will provide me with endgame - activity later when some basic issue's are fixed. I appreciate your hard work and you will not loose me or my friends. Thank you!!!

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Ok, seriously this is getting old. ffxi was flawed, it was too hardcore and to much content that took up too much time. After WoW released ffxi started to slowly loose subs. FFxi also never really had sub increases like a few major increases like ps2 and 360 launch. But not much inbetween or after. Because of this, ffxi afrer 8 years of a slow bleed, had to merge servers. And not even 2 years after need to merge servers again.

The bigger issue is the self proclaim hardcores or "ffxi fan". Did you guys think you might be an issue? Look at how you act tward other players. A decent percent of hardcores are also elitists. Players who feel they are the best player and everyone must play like them. They insul and belittle anyone who refuses to do so. They also make the game not fun by making end game like a second work place.

I'm a long time ffxi player, I played since ps2 launch till feb 28th of this year. And only due to money issues. I'm a fan of ffxi, but i do see the flaws it had.

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YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY THIS GAME.

Please stop. Just stop ok? You don't even play XIV! Your personal opinion about xi doesn't mean anyone care/has to listen.

What we really need is FFXIV to be open for more then just the "hardcores" and the "ffxi fans". I hate to say it WoW is popular for a reason. Most if not all content is open to anyone. Includeding the hardmode dungeons. It don;t take long to do those dungeos and they do pose a challenge. FFxiv should do something similar, not clone but do something similar. The less players who play a game, the harder it is to do stuff. As i said most ffxi was npt open to all players, so I got left out since everyone had full LS's and static groups. We need to let the devs make a game open to all players so we can get a constent influx of players, similar to WoW.

We also need the player base to stop causing all these petty wars. All the "hardcore" players do lately is rage on the "casuals" and making up stpries like "they only stick to one game for a few mnths" I was considered a casual in my first year of ffxi. I stuck to it and did what I could to play longer.

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Originally Posted by Visch

YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY THIS GAME.

Please stop. Just stop ok? You don't even play XIV! Your personal opinion about xi doesn't mean anyone care/has to listen.

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stick a fork in it.... your the worst of them.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

stick a fork in it.... your the worst of them.

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You're the worst troll of EVERYTHING. STOP POSTING. THE FORUMS CAME OUT A MONTH AGO AND YOU HAVE ALMOST 2000 POSTS AND YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I'd have to disagree a bit. My ls and I spent at least an hour or two on Dunstan without any rare drops whatsoever. In a group of 8 people we managed to get pretty much everyone a velveteen gown and merc chainmail lol.

You also have to remember this is mid-range content. The NMs drop rank 25-35 gear. Do you really expect them to take hours to spawn and a large group of 50s to kill? What could they possibly gain by locking out the very demographic they created the drops for by making them ungodly hard or incredibly long spawn times? Give it time and the hard stuff will come. Until then I'm perfectly happy with being able to get slightly above average armor for my middle ranks with comparable challenge.

ok sure I don't play ffxiv yet.. But honestly i see no need for all this petty battling. We need the game to be open to all players not like ffxi and mostly open to the "hardcore" that is not how we will get subs. You self proclaimed hardcore need to stop with the petty insults against the "casuals", you guys part just as much part of the problem as the game flaws are. All you do is sit and insult the "casuals" who would want to play a game like that? Seriously. Ffxiv is NOT beuing ruined by the "casuals" it is being ruined by all the rude hardcore players who seem to think they have more right to the game then anyone else. That is not how we will get subs. Try to be more open to changes, it is a game. There is no need to stress over what little content they are adding. You guys should be all for ANY content that will bring in subs. I know I am. I want ffxiv to be popular, not a WoW killer. But certainly more popular then ffxi was. And a way to get that is having content anyone can do.

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Originally Posted by Visch

You're the worst troll of EVERYTHING. STOP POSTING. THE FORUMS CAME OUT A MONTH AGO AND YOU HAVE ALMOST 2000 POSTS AND YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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ummm and that matters because? Really sub count?

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Originally Posted by Focant

Well I'd have to disagree a bit. My ls and I spent at least an hour or two on Dunstan without any rare drops whatsoever. In a group of 8 people we managed to get pretty much everyone a velveteen gown and merc chainmail lol.

You also have to remember this is mid-range content. The NMs drop rank 25-35 gear. Do you really expect them to take hours to spawn and a large group of 50s to kill? Give it time and the hard stuff will come, but for now I see no problem with the quick spawn times and, god forbid, NMs not rank 70+ for mid-range armor. What could SE possibly gain by locking out the very demographic for the new drops they created?

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I think some of them can be killed by a solo 40 player. At least that is what my linkshell is doing. Testing them. Some are soloable by a 40 and some are higher and take a 50 or two. I also think adding a few weaker NM's would have been nice as well as the stronger ones.

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Originally Posted by Visch

You're the worst troll of EVERYTHING. STOP POSTING. THE FORUMS CAME OUT A MONTH AGO AND YOU HAVE ALMOST 2000 POSTS AND YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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The best thing I ever did on the forums was adding her to my blacklist. Sweet Bliss!

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

ummm and that matters because? Really sub count?

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It does matter because you're spamming your opinions x1000 times more then others of A GAME YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED.

First, and the most important, and biggest point: you're all bickering idiots.

The game is incomplete. Content will be continuously added over the next [insert game completion time here]. So until you know what kind of content that entails, your opinions are moot and childish.

There will, without a doubt, be content for both forms of players. But not for us, because we are experiencing small portions of content as it is released, causing some ridiculous strain on a playerbase of whiney shits & giving them an excuse to start asinine arguements. Seriously you guys.

You guys have your heads so far up your opinionated, self-important asses that you can't see the shit through the methane.

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Originally Posted by Gracious

I think some of them can be killed by a solo 40 player. At least that is what my linkshell is doing. Testing them. Some are soloable by a 40 and some are higher and take a 50 or two. I also think adding a few weaker NM's would have been nice as well as the stronger ones.

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Yeah I know that some can be killed by rank 40-50 players solo. All I'm saying though is I don't see why people are in a tizzy about that considering the NMs are mid-range monsters. Harder ones will come later, without a doubt. Why everyone expected that NOW is beyond me, especially since the dev team has been communicating with us about later game dungeons and bosses that they're working on.

Lastly Stop raggong on me cuz I can't play, but i am no troll. I just want a fun game like everyone else. I'm just sick and tired of the "hardcore" vs everyone else battle. Stop acting like the game owes you. Its getting old seeing the complaints.I just want a fun game with a decently high playerbase. And seems the hardcore only want a game for them. I mean guiys take a step back and read what you right. WHAT ADULT ACTS LIKE THAT, seriously. All the hardcore have a bad view of the casual. No one said they wanted "easy mode", no one said they want stuff handed them. And all players stick to games they see as fun. And all players will move to a new game if they are not having fun. The point of the game or anjy game is to have fun. Sorry but it is not fun seeing people hate on others for unjustly reasons. To the hardcore take a good look in the mirror, your stressing over a video game. You hating on players you never met. Your complaining about people you don't even know.

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Originally Posted by Visch

You're the worst troll of EVERYTHING. STOP POSTING. THE FORUMS CAME OUT A MONTH AGO AND YOU HAVE ALMOST 2000 POSTS AND YOU DON'T EVEN PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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yes.. a million times YES!!!

And the only reason I haven'd added her/him to my blacklist is that a certain parts of me loves raging over every thing that they post on the forum.... and I also like reading how other people heckle them... makes me laugh....

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Originally Posted by Focant

Yeah I know that some can be killed by rank 40-50 players solo. All I'm saying though is I don't see why people are in a tizzy about that considering the NMs are mid-range monsters. Harder ones will come later, without a doubt. Why everyone expected that NOW is beyond me, especially since they've been communicating with us about later game dungeons and bosses.

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I really don't understand it either. Maybe because I'm still grinding my way up. It seems like players are demanding all this stuff but I haven't seen anyone with all jobs to 50 yet. Maybe they just got one job to 50 and they want to get a party of 8 and do some kind of endgaming. I don't know. I'm a bit clueless for sure.

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Originally Posted by Visch

It does matter because you're spamming your opinions x1000 times more then others of A GAME YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED.

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because i bought the game, im going to buy it again and I want it to be fun and popular...

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Originally Posted by Sorel

If I remember correctly many players had the same complaint when the first and second wave of notorious monsters were released.

"They are ALL High Rank NMs. Where are the low-mid rank NMs?? This game is going in the wrong direction!!!"

Yesterday "high-rank players" got content. Today "mid-rank players" got content. Tomorrow ... who knows?? But in all cases "players" are getting content. Please keep it coming Mr. Yoshida. We have a funny way of showing it, but we do appreciate your work.

Thank you.

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i was one compalining that it should have been released to them back then. the problem with last patch is the same as this one. it catered to only one group. i do not see where it matters which group is being ignored because it is not right either way. btw you show me where the higher group was given 20 nm's at one time and i will agree.

the point is 20 nm's were released at one time and 0 went to the higher level group. even if it was only 2-5 went for the higher range you would not hear the complaints you hear now. they not only did that, but they have made the high level nm's horribly easy. they were already being lowmanned and now it is even more so since it takes only around 5-6 people to even kill the harder super big nm's now.

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Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye

yes.. a million times YES!!!

And the only reason I haven'd added her/him to my blacklist is that a certain parts of me loves raging over every thing that they post on the forum.... and I also like reading how other people heckle them... makes me laugh....

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tbh i'm not raging, if I am i'm raging for all the harcore raging to stop. It is getting old. I am trying to post nicely w.o insulting anyone. Look at you, your just insulting me for what reason?

bu..bu..but.. you haven't even played it... how could you possibly have any opinion on it? your opinion is LITERALLY based off of what other people have said...

This forum was designed so that only people who are part of the current player base would be able to post... yet you've sneaked through the system....

Frankly going out with my ls and killing all the NMs is the most fun I've had in AGES in XIV, and we weren't even really doing it for the drops. Things are moving along and I'm enjoying the game more and more as they do.

Also I love that it feels like I'm skipping over these flame post like they were ads haha.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i was one compalining that it should have been released to them back then. the problem with last patch is the same as this one. it catered to only one group. i do not see where it matters which group is being ignored because it is not right either way. btw you show me where the higher group was given 20 nm's at one time and i will agree.

the point is 20 nm's were released at one time and 0 went to the higher level group. even if it was only 2-5 went for the higher range you would not hear the complaints you hear now. they not only did that, but they have made the high level nm's horribly easy. they were already being lowmanned and now it is even more so since it takes only around 5-6 people to even kill the harder super big nm's now.

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higher level content will be added sfter the battle fixes so it can be more fun for players. You need to open with the lower and mid content so newbies have stuff to do. SE isn't adding content for the current players, but ingeneral .