Party size reduction a good change?

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Originally Posted by Reika

Well my LS likes to have as many members as wants to participate in a party. it often went past 8. now we will be stuck ; ;

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Make 2 groups then.

Reduced party size kind of gives me a sad :(

I think it would be nice if they kept the party size at 15 but capped the bonuses at 8. That way you could make a choice: do you want to run out and deliver mayhem and carnage in a huge mob (with, say your LS or friends) or do you want to reduce your party size for efficient SP/hr grindage.

I guess I"m just more for changes that gives the players more choices/options rather than ones that are limiting.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Quite possible the least thought through suggestion I have ever heard. So maybe we should just cap LS membership at 8? I play in a small close knit linkshell, we are all RL friends and family, we schedule our time for this, and EVERYBODY shows up for it.

This change is the nail in the coffin for me, my wife, and quite possibly the rest of my linkshell. Most of them will probably drop this and move to XI, while my wife and I hang out for SW:TOR.

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fyi sw: tor will have tonsof solo content and most stuff ill be done by noc (crafting etc) And it seems most content is low man groups anyway.

Also you don;t need to ALWAYS play with EVERYONE it gets boring and stale, and you don;t have funny storyies to share since everyone was there. You also get fights and drama more. I seen LS die faster like that in ffxi.

I'm surprised at all the support for small parties. I always liked big parties although I haven't really been in one for so long because everyone quit the game. lol.

Can I target my entire party with F1-F8? No, you say? Party sizes of 5 + alliances please, or change the party targeting system.

If they're doing this for "strategy", then don't force me to spam AOE heal to get people I can't target easily.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Also you don;t need to ALWAYS play with EVERYONE it gets boring and stale, and you don;t have funny storyies to share since everyone was there. You also get fights and drama more. I seen LS die faster like that in ffxi.

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speak for yourself, My LS is drama free and its easy to keep it that way, reason being we dont give two *** and a *** how good at the game you are what rank you are what your play time is like, all of that can be learned. We focus on personality.

Well you'll have to put in some new LS policies however you want to pick and choose. First come first serve is a pretty good one. If they can't deal then that's tough. If the game never allowed 15 person parties at all no one would be complaining.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Well you'll have to put in some new LS policies however you want to pick and choose. First come first serve is a pretty good one. If they can't deal then that's tough. If the game never allowed 15 person parties at all no one would be complaining.

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Oh I know, we will adjust it just sucks to have to.

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Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Can I target my entire party with F1-F8? No, you say? Party sizes of 5 + alliances please, or change the party targeting system.

If they're doing this for "strategy", then don't force me to spam AOE heal to get people I can't target easily.

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You can easily target people by clicking their name in the party list with a mouse, also pressing the number key which has Cure assigned and then clicking said person in party list will heal them, it couldn't be any easier, of course if you insist on playing with a controller then who's to blame for that ?

Give what I suggested a try and you will see just how easy it is to target people as a healer.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You can easily target people by clicking their name in the party list with a mouse, also pressing the number key which has Cure assigned and then clicking said person in party list will heal them, it couldn't be any easier, of course if you insist on playing with a controller then who's to blame for that ?

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not everyone has a mouse at their disposal that can be used efficiently for gaming. Also, the ingame mouse is still kinda crappy....I hate playing with mouse.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

not everyone has a mouse at their disposal that can be used efficiently for gaming. Also, the ingame mouse is still kinda crappy....I hate playing with mouse.

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Wait we are all playing on PC's so how is that possible.. my mouse cursor works just fine.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Wait we are all playing on PC's so how is that possible.. my mouse cursor works just fine.

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<--laptop so I have to use a trackpad (which works fine in other games such as RoM and LoL...even SC2) but with FFXIV...something's not right lol it's still too slow for me. I'd rather be able to target people like I could in FFXI. I never once had to use a mouse for that game and 14 should be no different.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You can easily target people by clicking their name in the party list with a mouse, also pressing the number key which has Cure assigned and then clicking said person in party list will heal them, it couldn't be any easier, of course if you insist on playing with a controller then who's to blame for that ?

Give what I suggested a try and you will see just how easy it is to target people as a healer.

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FFXIV uses a software mouse for whatever reason. It is slow, and inefficient. There is no reason I should have to use it when the keyboard will suffice, and be far faster to use. If i'm in a battle, more specifically a high level battle, I shouldn't have to take my hand away from my abilities. To reach over, grab the mouse, select someone from the list, use ability, let's say takes 3-4 seconds. I can easily do that in less than half that on a keyboard. Which can be the difference between getting the tank healed for the next hit, or him dying.

What you're suggesting is like taking Hotkeys out of StarCraft 2.

TThere is an option in the config for hardware mouse you know.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

TThere is an option in the config for hardware mouse you know.

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Good to know. Thank you. I completely missed that when playing with my settings. I'll see how much of a difference it makes later. Regardless though, everything should be hotkeyed. There is no excuse.

Rather than reducing the hard limit on party sizes, I wish they would balance the strength of the behest and leve monsters as well as make the boss monsters stronger and more interesting that typical roaming mobs.

Our LS often has more than 8 people who want to play together so this change will really mess us up. It's not about maxing SP. It's not about getting drops. It's about having fun with all of our friends, and the party cap is going to limit that. ><

Aw, kinda sad about the party size change. I can see why they do it and we will get used to it I'm sure, though it is fun to do things in large groups sometimes. And on the occasion that my LS has more than 8 people who want to do a NM, there is never anywhere near enough to form two parties like many people have suggested.

They should keep 15 man parties for NM's and some future raids.

You can already kill everything with 6-8 people right now without even rebalancing them, i still don't see why people are so adamant with 15man, 15man creates nothing but zerg-fest, do people even care about rage timer when they have 15 members? lol

Well, best I can tell, my entire LS is pretty upset about the group size change.. Apparently the vocal minority wins, since a majority of the people who like things as they are, are not posting on the official forums. On the bright side, the reduced party cap will make it easier to fill a group with the declining population.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

You can already kill everything with 6-8 people right now without even rebalancing them, i still don't see why people are so adamant with 15man, 15man creates nothing but zerg-fest, do people even care about rage timer when they have 15 members? lol

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^This

Everything can be killed with 8 people or less. SE has said in interviews that this change will be coming. Even if you hadn't read the interviews this change should have been hinted at by the skill point and experience point return from having more than 8 people in a group.

Anyways I am curious about the attribute bonuses they will be offering with "light parties" and "full parties."

EDIT: On a side note if people are really upset about this change, larger linkshells can now have two groups to take down NM's and such. If anything larger linkshells will have an upper hand in this situation.

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Originally Posted by Magiksmurf

They should keep 15 man parties for NM's and some future raids.

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Nah, with 15 players, NMs are far too easy to kill.

Rentahamster i know they are to easy, with my LS we totally rape em every time but hopefully new NM's will be a lot more tactical and challenging.

The 1st NM's were pretty much a test imo.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

^This
EDIT: On a side note if people are really upset about this change, larger linkshells can now have two groups to take down NM's and such. If anything larger linkshells will have an upper hand in this situation.

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How is having twice as many groups competing for the small number of NMs a good thing? Even with 1 group per shell you can end up with 4+ shells competing on a busy day.

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Originally Posted by TubalaTrommler

How is having twice as many groups competing for the small number of NMs a good thing? Even with 1 group per shell you can end up with 4+ shells competing on a busy day.

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yes it is not a good thing when we only have small number of NMs, but what is stopping from adding more. i am pretty sure if they adds even 5 more NM, its gonna be a very busy night ahead. =D

Not really, considering most shells already have everything they need from the current NMs. So even if they add 5 or 10 more or whatever it will still be 100% worse with two groups per shell than one.

I meant the larger linkshells would have an upper hand over the smaller linkshells. My linkshells consists of around 8 members so we can only do 1 NM at a time. If a group has say 16 members they can do 2 NM's at a time making them more time efficient than my small linkshell.

Also, if you have a 15 man group going after one NM the competition and time efficiency will be the same if you have an 8 man group going after one NM and a 7 man group going after another. That is if each given linkshell each has their turn at a claim. I'll go ahead and say this change is no different from 15 man groups, but it is in reality nowhere near worse.

I don't know about your server Tubala, but the only NM that actually has competition on mine is Dodore and the most I see on a busy day is 4 linkshells. The rest almost never have any competition.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

You can already kill everything with 6-8 people right now without even rebalancing them, i still don't see why people are so adamant with 15man, 15man creates nothing but zerg-fest, do people even care about rage timer when they have 15 members? lol

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Why is this so baffling hard for you to comprehend? No one is talking about alliances because the NMs are hard but because we want to work with our LSes in mass rather than selecting 8 people or even splitting them into two groups.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

You can already kill everything with 6-8 people right now without even rebalancing them, i still don't see why people are so adamant with 15man, 15man creates nothing but zerg-fest, do people even care about rage timer when they have 15 members? lol

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like already stated it isn't about difficulty it is about allowing more people in the LS to have fun, 8 man parties for NMs will not be an issue for us at all for difficulty but it will limit how many of our members can come out and have a fun time.

If you think about it, this change really is not to big. Why? Well awhile back they killed sp gain when you have more then 8 people so people for the most party did not invite past that unless it was a linkshell member or a friend. Now the one exception for that was NM, not every LS out there ran with 15 people but a lot did. The only thing that will change drastically maybe is party setup for some LS NM groups and they may have to alter their strategies some, that is it. Behest is changing with it so it will not be a big deal, its just like it was for awhile with 15+ people at horizon trying to grab it, will be a contest who grabs it first, just with 8 this time.

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

I don't know about your server Tubala, but the only NM that actually has competition on mine is Dodore and the most I see on a busy day is 4 linkshells. The rest almost never have any competition.

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We get 4 or 5 shells on a busy day, but its not just at dodore, everyone ports around to try an make the most of their time while leaving a mule at dodore for weather.

People will never 'take turns' at claiming, and they shouldn't have to. if one mob is being fought, then there should be alternatives to go to. With smaller groups, even if there are alternatives, there will be the same number of groups at each NM, rather than 1-2 at one and 1-2 at another. With multiple groups you will end out with more people standing around doing nothing which will just frustrate people.

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Originally Posted by Moth

What about people who have more than 8 friends!?!? AAAHHH ;A;

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Same here. I'm really disappointed by their decision to cap parties at 8 people. I guess SE somehow got the impression that many of their players have poor social skills and cannot make friends. Very, very sad.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Same here. I'm really disappointed by their decision to cap parties at 8 people. I guess SE somehow got the impression that many of their players have poor social skills and cannot make friends. Very, very sad.

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less people in party = more skill needed to kill things. I, for one, was never happy with seeing a mob of 15 people running around all of the time...

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Originally Posted by Dubont

less people in party = more skill needed to kill things. I, for one, was never happy with seeing a mob of 15 people running around all of the time...

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That's fine and I don't disagree with your point. But there's currently nothing stopping people from forming smaller parties if they want to play with more skill than the rest of us. Why put a hard cap on everyone and force people to exclude some of their friends?

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Originally Posted by Mikita

That's fine and I don't disagree with your point. But there's currently nothing stopping people from forming smaller parties if they want to play with more skill than the rest of us. Why put a hard cap on everyone and force people to exclude some of their friends?

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well, why do all games do this? Atlantica, you can only play with 2 friends. FFXI, you can only play with 5 friends. At least here, you can play with 7 friends if you like. I, again, think that 15 is too large...but if people disagree with caps, why don't we just let everyone join one massive party? That would work right!? Actually...lol that would be pretty funny to see...just the entire server running around killing everything in one giant party...

i think they should have left the cap at 15 (or even higher) and just place a very high SP panelty on group with 9 players or more.

That way people would do 8 player party for ranking up, and 9+ party for NM

problem solved

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Originally Posted by Dubont

well, why do all games do this? Atlantica, you can only play with 2 friends. FFXI, you can only play with 5 friends. At least here, you can play with 7 friends if you like. I, again, think that 15 is too large...

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Again, there is nothing to stop people from forming smaller parties as the game stands before Patch 1.17.

I don't care what other games do. I play FFXIV to have fun with my friends, who happen to number a lot more than 8 people.

For FFXIV it's obviously not a technical limitation. They are just trying to appease people who complain, and are simply being too reactive here.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Again, there is nothing to stop people from forming smaller parties as the game stands before Patch 1.17.

I don't care what other games do. I play FFXIV to have fun with my friends, who happen to number a lot more than 8 people.

For FFXIV it's obviously not a technical limitation. They are just trying to appease people who complain, and are simply being too reactive here.

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True, there is nothing stopping from forming smaller parties, but humans are opportunists. If they can do something, they will do it. If they can make 15 man parties, they will, just because they can. If they can jump, they will...just because they can. I'm in favor of the cap, in most aspects, because leve links usually cap after 3-4 links, so there is not really any point to have 15 people, unless you just want to play with friends. I'm all for people playing with their friends, but you don't have to be in a party with 14 friends at all times. This also brings up another question, with the old party cap, what will happen to the people that have more than 14 friends? Why could they not party with their friends? I have 37 friends...why can't I play with all of them at once? See my issue?

@ OP, i think it might be good, seeing as there's still a lack of active players around.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

True, there is nothing stopping from forming smaller parties, but humans are opportunists. If they can do something, they will do it. If they can make 15 man parties, they will, just because they can.

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That is largely true. But people also have the free will to choose what they do.
If someone believes that they get more satisfaction out of playing in smaller parties using more skill, then please do so.

The biggest issue is behests where you have no control. But in all other instances you can create smaller groups and play as you like.

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This also brings up another question, with the old party cap, what will happen to the people that have more than 14 friends? Why could they not party with their friends? I have 37 friends...why can't I play with all of them at once? See my issue?

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No, not really. I'd like to be able to play with more than 15 people, but understand that at some point there will probably be technical issues.

I still don't see the logic in diminishing the party cap. Being forced to play with fewer people doesn't suddenly make the game more fun.