PROVE: ONE HUGE REASON FFXIV FAIL - BATTLE SYSTEM

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

Semantics. Anyway, its not drastic but thats your opinion. Bizarre as it may be. The OPs ultimate point remains: The system sucks. Whatever footage he put in from then or me playing today it sucks.



I read just fine. Thank you for my literacy concerns.

The comment was aimed at anyone defending this game still. Again, the battle system itself is not all that different from Alpha to now. Suck is suck. And it is relevant (the comparison) because they had 8 years of data on what works and what doesn't and instead they gave birth to this freakshow that they can't even charge admission for because its that stinking ugly.

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You are still not seeing my point. I'm not defending or praising anything, yet you are assuming I am. Get over it. You say it sucks, and yes i agree with you, happy now? I feel it sucks as well, there are no defining roles at all, and the whole battle system is just spamming actions as soon as you have enough stamina.

I may be exaggerating it a bit, but for the most part, and the final god-damned time i'll say it..

YES, the battle system sucks. Good god man.. get a grip.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I'm not saying FFXI is bad, I'm saying that the whole idea of having to wait a shitload of time to grab a party due to the fact that the game was designed to not have nearly anything possible without one was a HUGE misstep, and might be one of the bigger reason that the game was hemorrhaging subscribers after a certain point in its life.

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if you want to know what is a shitload waste of time, it's ffxiv's solo-based combat system of 1-1-1-1-1-1.

compared to ffxiv, it is worth waiting 2 hours in FFXI for the exhilerating party combat system. every normal fight could turn epic.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

My personal tastes deal with more tactics, instead of rushing in and pressing a lot of buttons.

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To sum it up (for me) this is what I miss most. I miss having to think, tactics, positioning (blah blah blah). I do think, overall, 11s is better and wish they would have taken the good and tossed the bad (such as borderline impossible to solo).

Anyhoot. As aforementioned above my ultimate gripe is they had 8 years of data and ignored us like we were stricken with Ebola during alpha/beta. We were yapping away for attention like a chihuahua having a seizure under a disco ball hopped up on pcp wearing a glitter doggy sweater. Rather then listen to a single yelp they elected to zap this Frankenstein monster to life. Now the player populace is running around like villagers with pitch forks and torches trying to slay the beast.

In FFXIV, there are 2 classes: Mage, DD.

You equip a melee weapon and a bunch of random weapon skills and start mashing the number row.

Cooooool............................... -.-

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

To sum it up (for me) this is what I miss most. I miss having to think, tactics, positioning (blah blah blah). I do think, overall, 11s is better and wish they would have taken the good and tossed the bad (such as borderline impossible to solo).

Anyhoot. As aforementioned above my ultimate gripe is they had 8 years of data and ignored us like we were stricken with Ebola during alpha/beta. We were yapping away for attention like a chihuahua having a seizure under a disco ball hopped up on pcp wearing a glitter doggy sweater. Rather then listen to a single yelp they elected to zap this Frankenstein monster to life. Now the player populace is running around like villagers with pitch forks and torches trying to slay the beast.

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Having been ignored was partly to blame for FFXI being solely their own work, without having to add anything the players asked for. People still love/have loved the game for a very long time.

SE(mainly Tanaka) was just feeling over-confident about creating yet another game that people will love without having to add in whatever the players want.

I remember when they first announced the battle changes from FFXIV Alpha to Beta, and all i heard was that it was a better battle system than FFXI.

Well, now that we've all had our time with this battle system, not too many of us like it, but there are quite a few that find it unique.

Though, the way i see it, is that... how many people use Battle Regimens? Not too many because it requires planning, and precision. You cannot attack the mob until you have completed the BR. This contradicts even having the action-based battle system. Hence, why i think it sucks. I personally loved the Skillchains, especially as a Monk in FFXI.

With this game, all is see enemies as are punching bags. No tactics required to punch a punching bags besides punching it. *shrugs*

EDIT: Also have to include that the amount of time it takes to use a Skill, you can spam your weakest action ability and do as much, or even more damage than your skill can do.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

To sum it up (for me) this is what I miss most. I miss having to think, tactics, positioning (blah blah blah). I do think, overall, 11s is better and wish they would have taken the good and tossed the bad (such as borderline impossible to solo).

Anyhoot. As aforementioned above my ultimate gripe is they had 8 years of data and ignored us like we were stricken with Ebola during alpha/beta. We were yapping away for attention like a chihuahua having a seizure under a disco ball hopped up on pcp wearing a glitter doggy sweater. Rather then listen to a single yelp they elected to zap this Frankenstein monster to life. Now the player populace is running around like villagers with pitch forks and torches trying to slay the beast.

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You must not be fighting challenging monsters if you aren't thinking about tactics and positions and the only people runnning aroud with pitchforks are people like you. >_>

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

In FFXIV, there are 2 classes: Mage, DD.

You equip a melee weapon and a bunch of random weapon skills and start mashing the number row.

Cooooool............................... -.-

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As opposed to XI where you just draw your weapon and maybe use a weaponskill.

I'd recommend that most of you step up from coblyns and rats.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

You must not be fighting challenging monsters if you aren't thinking about tactics and positions

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Even if you applied the situation of fighting a challenging monster, there really isn't much you are doing but having to hit the basic actions a few times before you are able to use a skill. Which one to use requires some thought, but I'm speaking more on the lines of being in a party. You can pretty much down an enemy by spamming action commands, regardless of the +5 damage you do from attacking behind.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I'd recommend that most of you step up from coblyns and rats.

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No matter the mob, the fact that skills are really nothing special compared to regular attacks is what hurts the battle system. I'm even being lenient and disregarding the pretty visuals and animations you see being repeated constantly.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

I'd recommend that most of you step up from coblyns and rats.

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Meh, more grinding spots for me if they stay there. >_>

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Even if you applied the situation of fighting a challenging monster, there really isn't much you are doing but having to hit the basic actions a few times before you are able to use a skill. Which one to use requires some thought, but I'm speaking more on the lines of being in a party. You can pretty much down an enemy by spamming action commands, regardless of the +5 damage you do from attacking behind.

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Which you pretty much could do in XI, except without the mashing.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Having been ignored was partly to blame for FFXI being solely their own work, without having to add anything the players asked for. People still love/have loved the game for a very long time.

SE(mainly Tanaka) was just feeling over-confident about creating yet another game that people will love without having to add in whatever the players want.

I remember when they first announced the battle changes from FFXIV Alpha to Beta, and all i heard was that it was a better battle system than FFXI.

Well, now that we've all had our time with this battle system, not too many of us like it, but there are quite a few that find it unique.

Though, the way i see it, is that... how many people use Battle Regimens? Not too many because it requires planning, and precision. You cannot attack the mob until you have completed the BR. This contradicts even having the action-based battle system. Hence, why i think it sucks. I personally loved the Skillchains, especially as a Monk in FFXI.

With this game, all is see enemies as are punching bags. No tactics required to punch a punching bags besides punching it. *shrugs*

EDIT: Also have to include that the amount of time it takes to use a Skill, you can spam your weakest action ability and do as much, or even more damage than your skill can do.

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Very accurate post of probably what happened.

As for BR, they're not that complicated to do really. We cycle through them an entire NM fight. I preferred SC as well. That said, you're also correct that a lot of the times you can get more DP out just by attacking then by using certain skills.

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

you can get more DP out just by attacking then by using certain skills.

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Considering that skills also have a very strong tendency to miss, since applying points to your DEX stat doesn't make a bit of difference.

Maybe I'm the only one who noticed but that NIN sucked. We've also got an apples and oranges comparison between those two videos. One video is a party with people who have the basic concepts of battle down (also why was it still alive after the Skillchain/MB?) Then the FFXIV Alpha footages featuring the worst Archer I've ever seen is posted. Who tries to be Legolas raining down arrows but just ends up drawing aggro off the robe wearing Marauder and standing there like a derp while mage-warrior has to chase it down.

In regards to the FFXIV video, this sort of thing happened in FFXI ALL the time if you got into a party with a terrible Ranger (which was 95% of them).

I will not deny that battle needs tweaking but I gather many of you just aren't very good or never leveled past 20 and 1-star all your battle leves. Spamming 1 will have you meeting the ground if you are fighting the more challenging targets.

One thing I would like them to add is linking (linking would party them up for multiple claim) mobs and partied enemies out in the wild. That way we can use those nice AOE/conal attacks outside of just battle leves.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

I gather many of you just aren't very good or never leveled past 20 and 1-star all your battle leves. Spamming 1 will have you meeting the ground if you are fighting the more challenging targets.

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Actually, being a Rank 33 Pugilist, I mean what I say. Only Skills i tend to be using are Victimize and Concussive Blow II. SOmetimes I'd use the Featherfoot and Jarring Strike combo too. Otherwise my healing skills are Cure II and Sacrifice II but you'd have to be clueless not to have any healing skills equipped, especially if you are doing 2 or more stars in your current camp's leves.

I rarely do 1 stars unless 2 stars its just impossible. I'm not bent on making this game any easier than it already is. X_X

Also, you don't always need to wait for attack animations to finish to pull off another attack. >_>

I'm not sure how to skip some skill animations as you say. Whenever I try attacking normally again, it qeues the next attack until the animation is finished.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Actually, being a Rank 33 Pugilist, I mean what I say. Only Skills i tend to be using are Victimize and Concussive Blow II. SOmetimes I'd use the Featherfoot and Jarring Strike combo too. Otherwise my healing skills are Cure II and Sacrifice II but you'd have to be clueless not to have any healing skills equipped, especially if you are doing 2 or more stars in your current camp's leves.

I rarely do 1 stars unless 2 stars its just impossible. I'm not bent on making this game any easier than it already is. X_X

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Ahh, you should always have featherfoot equipped with jarring strike. Thats my two cents

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

no it was that bad.

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No, people exaggerate. Heavily. I played since 2001 therefore I lived through every up and down with FFXI and it never took me more than 30 minutes to get a party invite as even a DRG or PUP -- When I waited more than 30 min, guess what I did? Make a party, which is what most "it takes hours to get an invite" people don't do.

I believe that it was intended though. I really love the damage it deals, and it does require keeping a finger on the assigned button for Jarring Strike/Haymaker II. I've also seen this combo being used by Assassins in Aion. I've only barely played that game but these skills are just too similar.

I really want my Monk back. :P

EDIT: I've had to make my own parties most of the time in FFXI, unless I was PLD, I'd get invites left and right. As a Monk, you'd never get an invite unless it was Moblin Maze Runs, which failed most of the time. :P

Now you can get invites pretty normally due to Abyssea, but to be honest, that kills the game for me, I want to experience the slower and more legit way to get to level 75.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

No, people exaggerate. Heavily. I played since 2001 therefore I lived through every up and down with FFXI and it never took me more than 30 minutes to get a party invite as even a DRG or PUP -- When I waited more than 30 min, guess what I did? Make a party, which is what most "it takes hours to get an invite" people don't do.

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i played since ps2 and my experience was diffterent spent more time waiting for parties then in them.

honestly you guys are kinda being silly. All SE can do is give us the tools. Its how we use them is key. This game is as easy or has hard you you want it to be. as challenging or unchallenging as you want it to be. Games don't create the challenge you guys do. You make the game tactical. You guys just chose not to. Nothing in a game is really nessisary.

I think a big issue is everyone here could be well, burnt out on mmo. You guys played tons of mmo or played ffxi/ WoW so long the game feels easy.

No game is really hard or easy. It just how each person perseves it. I though and still think the nes mario games are hard, cuz to me they are. But I find zelda easy, cuz to me its easy.

Am I the only one which thinks both of those videos look like utter garbage?

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

You must not be fighting challenging monsters if you aren't thinking about tactics and positions and the only people runnning aroud with pitchforks are people like you. >_>

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Of course he isn't, there aren't any challenging mobs in the game that require tactics aside for low manning NM's.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

As opposed to XI where you just draw your weapon and maybe use a weaponskill.

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At least FFXI utilized some sort of tactics with SC/MB's, and the abilities were at least unique from other classes. Really though, both systems sucked. Melee in FFXI was rather simple and FFXIV is even worse for all classes. '

There is a middle ground, the system doesn't have to be like either games.

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Originally Posted by Argh

if you want to know what is a shitload waste of time, it's ffxiv's solo-based combat system of 1-1-1-1-1-1.

compared to ffxiv, it is worth waiting 2 hours in FFXI for the exhilerating party combat system. every normal fight could turn epic.

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WTF? Solo-ing is the only time I don't spam 1.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

Of course he isn't, there aren't any challenging mobs in the game that require tactics aside for low manning NM's.

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Fight something other than Rats and coblyns, preferably green or higher in a party.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

Fight something other than Rats and coblyns, preferably green or higher in a party.

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Is this supposed to be a joke? You seriously think I haven't fought anything but coblyns and rats? LOL@ "green or higher" I only level off mobs that are yellow to red. It's still extremely simple. Whether it's solo or party play doesn't matter.The only thing I have to do aside for spamming 1 and TP moves is casting Cure & Sac II on myself.

For balance.

Guild Wars 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx0QnKgQ1CI

TERA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AEAl...07F2D3C426E2C5

You're an idiot for posting alpha footage, so I will assume its just intentional trolling. That being said, both games have horribly slow paced combat, and both games very boring, small, uneventful monsters to fight while leveling. However, at least FFXI has large scale endgame battles and storyline around them to compensate.

....I guess I'm the only person that actually liked alpha versions battle system >_>

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

Am I the only one which thinks both of those videos look like utter garbage?

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Nope for 10 characters.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

No, people exaggerate. Heavily. I played since 2001 therefore I lived through every up and down with FFXI and it never took me more than 30 minutes to get a party invite as even a DRG or PUP -- When I waited more than 30 min, guess what I did? Make a party, which is what most "it takes hours to get an invite" people don't do.

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which one was it? did you never wait more than 30 minutes or did you make a party after 30 minutes? love people talking about exaggerating facts then contradict themselves.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

which one was it? did you never wait more than 30 minutes or did you make a party after 30 minutes? love people talking about exaggerating facts then contradict themselves.

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On Remora, making a party was difficult after R40 even in FFXI's heyday. (My personal experience). The only reason I lvled up Ninja and WHM was so I wouldn't need to look for a tank/healer if none were available. Meanwhile, the class I really wanted to lvl up (thief) got left behind because it was too hard seeking parties as one, let alone making parties.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

which one was it? did you never wait more than 30 minutes or did you make a party after 30 minutes? love people talking about exaggerating facts then contradict themselves.

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It's not a contradiction. I chose not to wait more than 30 minutes before starting my own party if I didn't get one however it was fairly common to get one within 30 minutes, never have I seen it take the so called "hours upon hours" because that generally means you aren't proactive. The again, the English language is pretty weird that you have to be precise with your wording unlike other languages where people get what you mean.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

On Remora, making a party was difficult after R40 even in FFXI's heyday. (My personal experience). The only reason I lvled up Ninja and WHM was so I wouldn't need to look for a tank/healer if none were available. Meanwhile, the class I really wanted to lvl up (thief) got left behind because it was too hard seeking parties as one, let alone making parties.

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If I recall, Remora and Hades were the "dumping ground" servers of end-game players generally as those were newly opened and the badseeds flooded to them much like these days people flood to asura for the 'newbie friendly' theme going on.

videos of XI do a really poor job of explaining how it plays I've noticed.

and you should probably not look for alpha footage when making a point like this since it seems like you deliberately picked the most boring video you could find of xiv.

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Originally Posted by Kazimir

Is this supposed to be a joke? You seriously think I haven't fought anything but coblyns and rats? LOL@ "green or higher" I only level off mobs that are yellow to red. It's still extremely simple. Whether it's solo or party play doesn't matter.The only thing I have to do aside for spamming 1 and TP moves is casting Cure & Sac II on myself.

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That's a really mindless way to play the game. But you'll need far less healing and be significantly more effective if you actually think during battle. Most enemies have some little quirk that can be exploited if you pay attention. This is more relevant on orange/red enemies than tiers lower than you.

I tried forming group also guess what, either 1 ppl required PL, 2 2boxed PL, 3 no jobs that were needed were around.
honestly I hate defined jobs. I much rather look for players then jobs.