Scared about ARR

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Originally Posted by Aliwebb

LOLF2P that is all

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I am happy to know that there many people who don't mind about P2P. :P

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Originally Posted by Aliwebb

LOLF2P that is all

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I don't mind paying, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think PSO2's system was superior in every way to the traditional $/time system.

I have nothing against F2P games but the main concern is always how screwed the actual gameplay, content gating, player advancement, and any P2W aspect becomes when the company wants to make money. For current Tera players, nothing will change basically from the current status quo except it'll be free (the same thing FFXIV went through.. but backwards) but there is no knowledge of what they might take away or add in the future. KTera (and soon JTera) have become P2W hot garbage with the patch they received today so only time will tell if NA Tera follows the same footsteps. Of course there is also the issue with unsavorys that play f2p games. We know all too well the lalafell RMT armies when 1.0 was free and how they were greatly diminished when we had to start paying.

Regardless, I'm still going to play Tera cause I have a lot more fun playing that than other MMOs currently.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

I don't mind paying, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think PSO2's system was superior in every way to the traditional $/time system.

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Are you playing PSO2? How is their system superior?

The problem I see with a F2P system is that every content and development decision gets weighed against the question of "Will it negatively impact the cash shop?" rather than simply "Is this going to make a better game that people want to continue playing?" And this really limits many aspects of what can be put into the game.

PSO2 does have a well thought out system, and thankfully it's not pay-to-win. Superior, though, I'm not sure.
Because of their take on the F2P system, the game will probably never have much by way of community interaction, player created items, or a player driven economy (some of the core benefits of being an MMORPG) because it will be bad for business.

I'm playing PSO2 until ARR launches. I've paid some money. I've had some fun... but the game itself is not much more than a zergfest through doing the same short quests over and over. I don't know if it is capable of being anything more than that since they have a cash shop to protect.

You are listening to a western audience crying for f2p and forgetting that the Japanese players probably outnumber us quite significantly and if they paid for 11 all this time they will probably pay for 14 just as easy

If this game did go f2p though I would micro transaction the hell out of it, gotta keep Yoshi-P coffee flowing

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Originally Posted by Ricky

You are listening to a western audience crying for f2p

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I was wondering the same thing. My concern was over but worrying about NA-only servers that everyone mentioned about...

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Originally Posted by Ricky

You are listening to a western audience crying for f2p and forgetting that the Japanese players probably outnumber us quite significantly and if they paid for 11 all this time they will probably pay for 14 just as easy

If this game did go f2p though I would micro transaction the hell out of it, gotta keep Yoshi-P coffee flowing

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Its a lot of PS3 players who would want it f2p as well. If you look at any PS3 sites forums in the US especially you see the majority of people there won't even give FFXIV a chance because of the sub fee related to the game. Partly because every other online game on PS3 does not have a fee and they went the free route. If you post "will you try FFXIV when it come out" usually PS3 players will be like no not if there's a monthly fee, with is the deal breaker for them here.

PS3 players are willing to support buy once then have free online but not buy the game then pay a monthly fee. Not sure if FFXIV will do that well on PS3 here. Not sure how SE would market this game on PS3 outside Japan. Its a lot more common in Japan for games to have a service fee.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5...justsayf2p.jpg

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Originally Posted by Atamos

When FFXI will be Free to Play then you'll have a good reason to worry.

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This.

FFXI is still subscription based because it is a cut above almost every other MMO currently out. People whine and complain, but it's still a really good MMO for being 10 years old.

Enter FFXIV. Made by the same company, with a visionary producer. There is no way this game is going to go free to play either, when SE can still rake in subscriptions on their 10 year old MMO. Not to mention XIV needs to recoup its original losses.

XIV is going to be like XI in that it's going to be a cut above against other MMOs. I sincerely believe this is the case.

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Originally Posted by SidRheingold

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5...justsayf2p.jpg

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You rock hard! >.<
Glad you took my truth that we have too many crybabies in our forum and not even many of them understand technologies of computer science... -_-

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Originally Posted by Mikita

Are you playing PSO2? How is their system superior?

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Free to play, pay for only the services you want (right to sell on auction house, trading, extra Mags, vanity items, etc). Perfectly playable. Can still buy from the AH and NPC drops for in-game currency without spending a single cent. Can get to cap the same as anyone else, kill the big things like anyone else, get rare drops, etc.

As for Tera being FTP, I REALLY don't concider that to be ARR's demise. XD I mean... Tera? Booby-Tera? I tried it, and all those fabulous people really threw me off.

Edit: Not that XIV doesn't have its share of fabulous people etc, but in comparison... HAH!

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Originally Posted by SidRheingold

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5...justsayf2p.jpg

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Best response image I've seen on these forums in a while.

People want FTP? Or are scared it will go FTP? Can you image how much resources, effort, manpower and technological innovation that SE threw into this game over the past five years? And now some "children" want it to be free to play because their monthly allowance won't cover the subscription fee? Seriously?

Games like Aion (and eventually TERA in the NA and EU regions) went FTP because they didn't go multi-platform, didnt have a versatile end-game content, and because (if their publishers continue with their plans) the online cash shop AND the massive Chinese market ensures that they will stay afloat financially. That's where the purchasing power for a LOT of things resides these days.

Yet again, I repeat... a handful of certain demographics are feeling a little too smug in their assumptions that they are needed for this game to be successful. Show some bloody dignity, stop requesting a "freebie" and properly support the game.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Free to play, pay for only the services you want (right to sell on auction house, trading, extra Mags, vanity items, etc). Perfectly playable. Can still buy from the AH and NPC drops for in-game currency without spending a single cent. Can get to cap the same as anyone else, kill the big things like anyone else, get rare drops, etc.

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As I said, it's a well-thought out system and fortunately it's not pay-to-win. But it also means that there are many things PSO2 will never be able to have which would add any depth to the game, because it would compete with their cash house.

y'all worry way too much. Stop it.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

Just read that Tera is going free to play in the US and EU, and people are commenting that they give ARR from 4 to 8 months after release to follow the same route as all the other MMO's the last years...

I fear for the mindset of the population, not about the quality of the game, that may force it's demise...

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Oh, if tera becomes F2P in the US this year, my friend owes me some money on that bet. Should have him pay up on the fact its already F2P in Korea.

I should say 'WHEN' lol. I should log onto those forums with a 'told you so'......

Look you can download and try Tera out completely free. Go get to level 5 and tell me how "scared" you are about ARR. 1.0 was better, all imo of course.

The ONLY F2P option FFXIV:ARR needs is a Trial period for the game. The free month with purchasing the game is not enough to get ppl hooked.

There needs to be a way that you can just download the game and play for X amount of days, and promotional periods where you reinvite people to come back after they have played.

Plus, make it so the download only downloads the starting area so the download can remain small. So users can jump in and try easily. I always though Wow's trail game was genius! Where they only give you enough to download to start the game. And allow you to play, while it continues to download in the background! You can literally download the launcher, and be in the game playing in less than 15mins! You don't have to download the entire game just to "start" playing. You probably won't even touch 3/4 of the data you downloaded if you are just doing the trail!

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Originally Posted by Blackpearlguy

Look you can download and try Tera out completely free. Go get to level 5 and tell me how "scared" you are about ARR. 1.0 was better, all imo of course.

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I second your opinion... Tera is free, give it a go there is a month till beta so plenty of time, initially the game is not bad... however were imo it drops the ball is that it get's very annoying very fast. Especially if god forbid you have 0.1 seconds of lag, you will die before you know it... TERA imo should have been a single player game. Like SWTOR and many others.

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Originally Posted by Blackpearlguy

Look you can download and try Tera out completely free. Go get to level 5 and tell me how "scared" you are about ARR. 1.0 was better, all imo of course.

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I don't get what you mean... Scared about ARR because 1.0 was better?

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Originally Posted by Zehira

I don't get what you mean... Scared about ARR because 1.0 was better?

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I belive he means FFXIV version 1.0 was better then Tera is now. SO there is no need to fear that XIV ARR will follow in its footsteps.

I read the first post and didn't bother reading the rest of the thread.

I don't understand what people have against free-to-play games, especially if you have paid for a copy of the game. Nobody gets all up in a dander when Nintendo has no subscription for a metroid game. There are a huge number of games that are F2P, and it is for a reason. It generates income and widens player base.

People have this bad taste from badly done F2P. That does not mean F2P is the plague. Look at GW2, LoL, practically every Facebook game ever, several steam games. As long as gameplay (the entire point of a game) is solid people will play. If you can do away with the archaic subscription system and attract more players then why not do so?

People seem worried about SE not being able to make enough money without subscriptions. That is a bit ridiculous. SE has such a powerhouse of an IP in FF that they would make a killing with vanity micro-transactions. The initial cost of the game is also huge. The development team can be cut in half with the half that doesn't stay with xiv going to work on some other SE project (which makes more money for SE).

The only situation in which subscriptions make sense, is if updates stream in on like a bi-weekly basis with bug fixes and balance patches AND all subsequent expansions are free AND you got all available character slots for the base sub price.

I have a decent job and i can easily afford my legacy sub, and if the game stays sub based i will continue to pay and play because i enjoy the game. But if the game went free to play you would see many more players that simply can't or won't pay subs. Those who have no problem paying for subs will also have no problem buying baby behemoths, and bomblets. Those who won't or can't pay subs will simply add to the player base and may be inclined to drop a one time fee of 5 bucks for a little bangaa statuette that they can place on their desk in their free company complex as a quaint reminder of another FF game without a sub that they played and enjoyed.

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Originally Posted by Wicka

I read the first post and didn't bother reading the rest of the thread.

I

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Then its little wonder you would bring up points that have already been discussed.

If they game were to go F2P, I'd hope for an option to continue paying a monthly sub anyway. I think DCUO does that.

F2P doesn't scare me, but there's a negative stigma around them.

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Originally Posted by Wicka

I read the first post and didn't bother reading the rest of the thread.

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As far as i read... TERA is a typical Korean style of a MMO, It's made for a different culture, different audience, different player base. It was only imported to NA do to popular demand which died fast... TERA did do a few things well, but it did so many things so bad that it simply fell flat... If TERA is reworked in to a single player game, i would be first in line to get it, but as a mmo it's not a threat, people didn't quit TERA do to p2p, they quit because the game became stale.

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Originally Posted by Wicka

I read the first post and didn't bother reading the rest of the thread.

I don't understand what people have against free-to-play games, especially if you have paid for a copy of the game. Nobody gets all up in a dander when Nintendo has no subscription for a metroid game. There are a huge number of games that are F2P, and it is for a reason. It generates income and widens player base.

People have this bad taste from badly done F2P. That does not mean F2P is the plague. Look at GW2, LoL, practically every Facebook game ever, several steam games. As long as gameplay (the entire point of a game) is solid people will play. If you can do away with the archaic subscription system and attract more players then why not do so?

People seem worried about SE not being able to make enough money without subscriptions. That is a bit ridiculous. SE has such a powerhouse of an IP in FF that they would make a killing with vanity micro-transactions. The initial cost of the game is also huge. The development team can be cut in half with the half that doesn't stay with xiv going to work on some other SE project (which makes more money for SE).

The only situation in which subscriptions make sense, is if updates stream in on like a bi-weekly basis with bug fixes and balance patches AND all subsequent expansions are free AND you got all available character slots for the base sub price.

I have a decent job and i can easily afford my legacy sub, and if the game stays sub based i will continue to pay and play because i enjoy the game. But if the game went free to play you would see many more players that simply can't or won't pay subs. Those who have no problem paying for subs will also have no problem buying baby behemoths, and bomblets. Those who won't or can't pay subs will simply add to the player base and may be inclined to drop a one time fee of 5 bucks for a little bangaa statuette that they can place on their desk in their free company complex as a quaint reminder of another FF game without a sub that they played and enjoyed.

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I make enough money to pay 20+ subs a month if I wanted to.. it doesn't mean I want to pay real money for better shit each time I want to upgrade.

I also like having GM support and regular updates, something I've been told GW1 did very poorly.

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Originally Posted by Lady

Then its little wonder you would bring up points that have already been discussed.

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I'm a busy man. I really don't have the time to read an entire thread before I give my opinion on the subject matter. To those who had points and opinions similar to mine, my post is an agreement and fortification. To those whose opinions and points opposed my own, my post was an educated opinion to be ignored or refuted. My first sentence was an admission that my following opinion was based solely on the contents of the first post, the subject of this thread. While I think the stigma of F2P exists for a reason, I also think that it can be done incredibly effectively. And when effectively done, it is preferable to the alternative.

I'm not sure your condescension is deserved.

Personally even if I was a little worried about ARR at first things are always getting better.

When I used to google best mmo's or FFXIV I would only see a lot of negative complaints or maybe a half okay OP that made sure to talk about how horribly SE messed up with this mmo somewhere in the post. Even on lodestone trolling was flaming up, you couldn't go a page in these forums without 2-3 people having a big ol cat fight and 2 others talking about how the game will always suck and doesn't deserve thier money. This depressed me, I couldn't help but think, "My god what has the MMO community become? Whiny unhappy trolls who literally will bitch that the sky is blue and not the overcast grey of some old game they loved(*cough ff7*) and why all games should just be remakes of the games that got them gaming to begin with..."

But as the tides turn now my Google attempts lead me on more positive OP's and forums across both lodestone and fan based sites or just game sites in general. I have even seen them be #1 most sought for mmo for 2013 on some posts. Granted the age of trolls isn't far behind, constantly bashing in comments, laughing in them and claiming that people just don't vote, only FFXIV fans must have voted because it sucks so bad there's no way they won by being a great game. Haha..

But the point is is I think the game has finally risen, the phoenix from the ashes and yes, people are talking.. TALKING, not just trolling. There is excitement in the air. Non players are looking for more and more info. Google lead searches are bringing up excitement and positive feedback for the future of our lovely game. But people it's up to us. When theres a million people bashing this game in XIV we need to be the voice of reason. Take a bit of time to comment too. Give the people who are honestly curious a taste of the game, answer their questions, rather then let the trolls play the "she said he said it sucks" feedback that is already trying to erode this game from people who have no damn clue about ARR at all and base their comments strictly on word of mouth.

On a last note im not a fan boy.. I think this game had messed up in its youth, as do all games in some way or another. But after years of being hyped for this game and playing it I am tired of people who just want to be negative for the sake of being negative to games. I am all for good discussions about improvements and issues but saying, "Omfg this games gonna fail! I'm bored on Alpha! THE GRASS ISN'T RIGHT! I QUIT!" is not constructive, is not helpful nor is it bringing any real opinion to a discussion besides maybe your parents should have spanked you more and taught you manners on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Wicka

I'm a busy man. I really don't have the time to read an entire thread before I give my opinion on the subject matter. To those who had points and opinions similar to mine, my post is an agreement and fortification. To those whose opinions and points opposed my own, my post was an educated opinion to be ignored or refuted. My first sentence was an admission that my following opinion was based solely on the contents of the first post, the subject of this thread. While I think the stigma of F2P exists for a reason, I also think that it can be done incredibly effectively. And when effectively done, it is preferable to the alternative.

I'm not sure your condescension is deserved.

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Find it ironic that a "busy man" has time to post anything on a forum in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Lady

Find it ironic that a "busy man" has time to post anything on a forum in the first place.

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Anyone can express their opinion here, stop being a troll.

There is no reason TERA going F2P should make anyone afraid of FFXIV going F2P. TERA went F2P because that is the fate of ALL Kmmo, period.

The "better shit" is the wrong way to do F2P. Those are the games that give F2P it's horrible reputation.

The fact that you make enough money to pay 20+ subs a month is irrelevant. If you can easily afford to pay what it costs to play the game, then you can even more easily afford to blow some cash on whatever you please, should that sub money be freed up. I feel like you are trying to brag that you make loads of cash. A smart way for SE to do F2P, especially because they are sitting on one of the most influential IPs outside of Nintendo's big hitters, is vanity micro-transactions. The smart way to do it, is to only sell things that the players want to buy, so long as it does not affect gameplay.

If I am saving my 10 dollar legacy sub every month, I am more inclined to drop 5 bucks on a "barber" to redo my hair and what-not because I feel like a change of pace. I am also much happier to buy expansion packs because I haven't already dropped enough money to buy 5 of them in one year. I hear that they are thinking of implementing a dying system for gear. Its cool if your standard grade-school crayola box covers all the free colors, and a small fee lets you use the much more versatile 256 color gamut. Etc.

Updates and GM support are not exclusive to subscription based systems. LoL gets updates Bi-Monthly at worst. Minecraft got fairly regular updates (I haven't played in a while) and was also very customer friendly and supportive. I have several games on steam that update often that I don't pay for on a monthly basis.

Look, I'm not paid to design a free-to-play system for XIV. The best I will do is throw out a few examples that prove the system works if handled correctly. I am also not saying that XIV SHOULD go F2P. I am saying that if it does, and if it is handled well, it is not a bad thing. I do think that paying a sub AND having to pay for expansions AND (at least right now) paying for more than one character slot, is all unnecessary and dated.

I wouldn't mind a cosmetic cash shop at all^^: I admit to spending a little more then I would have liked on tera skins and costumes even though I literally never play

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Anyone can express their opinion here, stop being a troll.

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I think you'll find that reading one or two posts and typing a reply takes much less time than reading all the posts and doing the same. I'm not as busy as Donald Trump, but I don't feel like wasting my time reading an entire thread when I merely want to communicate my opinion on the subject matter.

Edit - Sorry, I didn't mean to quote you. I meant to quote the other person. My apologies.

Okay guys, if you believe someone's opinion has already been addressed. Why don't you just copy posts and post quotes to someone who needs to know if s/he doesn't have time to read all of this thread?

Just saying... :3

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Originally Posted by Kyri

I wouldn't mind a cosmetic cash shop at all^^: I admit to spending a little more then I would have liked on tera skins and costumes even though I literally never play

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Yeah like the one WoW have, I think Blizzard has figured the perfect balance between a cash shop (I still think 20€ for a mount is way too much or 10€ for a pet) with purely cosmetic items that don't give any edge on the game, and a monthly fee.

I wouldn't mind a purely cosmetic shop for ARR at all.

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Originally Posted by Wicka

While I think the stigma of F2P exists for a reason, I also think that it can be done incredibly effectively. And when effectively done, it is preferable to the alternative.

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I'd have to disagree with you. I personally haven't experieced a F2P MMORPG that was worth hanging around longer than a year. The stigma you speak of, is usually warranted. I was surprised you used GW2 as an example, because I could use that as a clear example of how F2P systems ruin gameplay. GW2 has RMT built directly into their system, actually ENCOURAGING something that most players recognize as a blatent violation in other games. All functioning F2P models try to supplement income by separating the playerbase into basically a class system of those who don't mind funneling $$$ into the game vs those actually attempting to play it for free. But the fact is with F2P, the more money you got to spend this month, the more likely you'll continue to find enjoyment in the game.

Don't know if it's been mentioned (and hate to dig up skeletons), but the only f2p [former] SE product I know is/was Fantasy Earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Earth:_Zero
But I agree with most people. SE has never given in to the whole "Pay this for free! You'll get bored of it in 3 months anyways. There's a new game on the horizon! Buy some fake currency!" model that many kmmo's have established. If they ever do, ffxi will go first (they literally said that they didn't expect the game to last this long. But it's still making money so they keep it running/adding stuff.). If this game is/was, that big of a failure, they certainly won't go the f2p model. That's one thing I like about companies like square enix. They have a passion for what they're doing. They'd rather have a great product that failed than an army of shallow product that they can wh*re out.

The who consider it blatant violations only dk

Exn: you correct, something i have noted in not one, not two but ALL free to play games is that the community is divided in to two different camps. The people who pay, and pay more then a monthly sub would normally cost for stuff that should be included in the base. And the people who don't pay at all, who are to such a large extent penalized that they don't stay around long. Way i see it GW2 was a pure rip off, why? Because, even after you spend the 69.99 on your copy, and start playing you quickly realize that unless you keep burning money and the total ends up way over 14.99 a month... you see that you can't honestly keep up with the game speed. At cap unless you are bleeding your credit card like a pig. You can't even afford repairs, at cap the difference between people who pay ~50$ a month and those who choose not to is to the level like we are playing 2 different games.

This is the reason i prefer a p2p game with a monthly sub, we all get the same base and a persons pay at the end of the month does not influence the enjoyment of the game. Were i will give a penalty to p2p games is that they all seem hell bent on 14.99 a month. And yes some people to feel that's steep, and yet i see no MMO p2p braking out of that mold..