Yoshi suggests playing WOW for a year

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Originally Posted by Felis

They have. WoW was only 1 example.

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I figured they would have. Was just throwin it out there. I completely trust Yoshi right now.

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Originally Posted by Ralos

I figured they would have. Was just throwin it out there. I completely trust Yoshi right now.

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They have, Yoshi recenlty mention SWTOR, GW2, etc etc

Source : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...IV-Q-A-Summary
go to the end

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Of course, now that 1.0 has ended, we want to deliver ARR to the players quickly. However, we have seen some world class MMOs released in this past year, or year and a half, such as Rift, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars 2, and so forth. The staff and I have spent sleepless nights looking into these titles, and we feel that, this time, we want to be able to compete with these world-class games--and we don’t want to lose. For now, we ask that you give us more time to make adjustments, and we hope to release a new roadmap around the end of November or beginning of December. As for the beta test, we’re hoping to start beta phase one at the end of January or the beginning of February. We’ve already begun work, so we ask for your patience in the meantime.

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So much ridiculous stuff in this thread.

Contrary to FF-fanboy-belief, WoW actually did a lot of things right. Not looking to the things they did right for inspiration would be idiotic.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

So much ridiculous stuff in this thread.

Contrary to FF-fanboy-belief, WoW actually did a lot of things right. Not looking to the things they did right for inspiration would be idiotic.

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Contrary to WoW-fanboy-belief, FF11 actually did a lot of things right. Not looking to the things they did right for inspiration would be idiotic.

I can do that too.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Contrary to WoW-fanboy-belief, FF11 actually did a lot of things right. Not looking to the things they did right for inspiration would be idiotic.

I can do that too.

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Contrary to WoW/FFXI-fanboy-belief, WoW has technically more subs than any MMO market, Company seek to want atleast 30%-50% of those WoW subs, therefore, going FFXI hardcore team play just wont do it.

I can do that too.

Tellitubbies was very successful, but hurt the education value of th e youth.

There are many simple things many will flock too because of peers, but some prefer stimulation, and at least a developed story.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

Contrary to WoW/FFXI-fanboy-belief, WoW has technically more subs than any MMO market, Company seek to want atleast 30%-50% of those WoW subs, therefore, going FFXI hardcore team play just wont do it.

I can do that too.

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how many of those subs are active? how many of those subs are new players? how many of those subs have decent PC hardware. all my buds from school generally say pretty much the same thing, if they didn't already have at least 1 capped character and couldn't play it on they laptop they would never sub for it.

WoW may have been revolutionary for its time stomping out those 2D MMO's, but that day is over. stop looking at it for inspiration your only going backwards if you do.

I couldn't play WoW because it was so cartoony, FFXI ruined me with it's beauty. Of course FFXIV has me in its thrall now, and with WoW mechanics I feel like I will get to have more time outside my moghouse, thanks content finder!

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

how many of those subs are active? how many of those subs are new players? how many of those subs have decent PC hardware. all my buds from school generally say pretty much the same thing, if they didn't already have at least 1 capped character and couldn't play it on they laptop they would never sub for it.

WoW may have been revolutionary for its time stomping out those 2D MMO's, but that day is over. stop looking at it for inspiration your only going backwards if you do.

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No matter how many are actually active, they are active more than what FFXI active is. Therefore your argument is invalid. All your buds =/= 9 million people.

WoW may have been revolutionary, FFXI didn't get to do standardized the market. Therefor WoW > FFXI in terms of Business. What FFXIV is doing is making another revolutionary via inspiration of many MMOs including both FFXI and WoW.

If you want me to say the same thing lol here...

FFXI may have not been revolutionary for its time stomping out those 2D MMO's, but that day is over. Stop looking at it for inspiration your only going backwards if you do.


Your whole argument therefore are invalid.

I'm more than looking forward on how FFXIV will revolutionarize the MMO market industry than rather hearing people talking backwards about how bad is that other MMO that actually make more millions money than FFXI currently does.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Contrary to WoW-fanboy-belief, FF11 actually did a lot of things right. Not looking to the things they did right for inspiration would be idiotic.

I can do that too.

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Nice try, but I've played FF11 for about 10 times longer than I have played WoW, and I still play it too.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Nice try, but I've played FF11 for about 10 times longer than I have played WoW, and I still play it too.

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I <3 FFXI
It's old now and Abyssea has kind of made it ridiculous, but it's still a great and fun game.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

No matter how many are actually active, they are active more than what FFXI active is. Therefore your argument is invalid. All your buds =/= 9 million people.

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you don't know how many subs WoW has, therefor your counter argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

WoW may have been revolutionary, FFXI didn't get to do standardized the market. Therefor WoW > FFXI in terms of Business. What FFXIV is doing is making another revolutionary via inspiration of many MMOs including both FFXI and WoW.

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no we generally call that a patchwork doll of game concepts(and those usually tank hard), WoW was successful do to timing (breaking the 2D era) and originality.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

I'm more than looking forward on how FFXIV will revolutionarize the MMO market industry than rather hearing people talking backwards about how bad is that other MMO that actually make more millions money than FFXI currently does.

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yeah, you probably wont even be around when it flops as you would have just moved on to the new latest in greatest in inspirational achievements.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Nice try, but I've played FF11 for about 10 times longer than I have played WoW, and I still play it too.

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good for you. want a cookie? i was punning you for your opinion on what you would call "right". WoW didn't start getting anything right until its second expansion.

your actual status as a player for either game, doesn't concern me.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

you don't know how many subs WoW has, therefor your counter argument is invalid.

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You dont know how many subs WoW has either, therefor your re-counter-argument is invalid. So you are denying that WoW has 9 million subscribers? even if i'm wrong, i can say is above 9 million subscribers, i don't know why you say i do not know.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

no we generally call that a patchwork doll of game concepts(and those usually tank hard), WoW was successful do to timing (breaking the 2D era) and originality.

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WoW is much more accessible then FFXI. It is indeed due to timing and originality, but mind you that it has come a long way far more reaching out then FFXI ever was, not to say FFXI is bad, there is many FFXI good point, but not entirely all that bad either for WoW too. Nevertheless WoW still is, the most popular MMO ever.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

yeah, you probably wont even be around when it flops as you would have just moved on to the new latest in greatest in inspirational achievements.

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Who say i wont? i've been sticking with WoW, RO, Tera, GW2, Dota2, and many MMOs and still play em'

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

You dont know how many subs WoW has either, therefor your re-counter-argument is invalid. So you are denying that WoW has 9 million subscribers? even if i'm wrong, i can say is above 9 million subscribers, i don't know why you say i do not know.

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neither one of us can make an argument on this point, neither one of us has proper information

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

Who say i wont? i've been sticking with WoW, RO, Tera, GW2, Dota2, and many MMOs and still play em

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who says you will? looks like you've got quite a full plate of MMO there. sure you have time for leftovers of all those games?

I feel like you all are arguing now just for the sake of arguing....

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Originally Posted by Ralos

I feel like you all are arguing now just for the sake of arguing....

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pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

neither one of us can make an argument on this point, neither one of us has proper information

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Welp, the source of 9 million subs came from news it self, therefor it is legit. (Reuters, BBC, etc news) as WoW is also involving in the Financial news.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

who says you will? looks like you've got quite a full plate of MMO there. sure you have time for leftovers of all those games?

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Yeap, is not that i can't play them all, i play them according to my scedhule, like how those MMO gamers journalism does.

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Originally Posted by Ralos

I feel like you all are arguing now just for the sake of arguing....

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Debates are always like that no?

I think the reason why WOW > FFXI was because SE didn't listen to their fanbase and 95% of time SE made whatever they want and not to make what players want and need (thanks to PS2's limitation.) Now, Yoshi-P is the only one in SE can listen to us so I am sure FFXIV will do fine. ^^

Just mind you, SE still have a lot of haters out there anywhere in the world to make the company look bad.

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Originally Posted by Zehira

I think the reason why WOW > FFXI was because SE didn't listen to their fanbase and 95% of time SE made whatever they want and not to make what players want and need (thanks to PS2's limitation.) Now, Yoshi-P is the only one in SE can listen to us so I am sure FFXIV will do fine. ^^

Just mind you, SE still have a lot of haters out there anywhere in the world to make the company look bad.

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I have to agree. I spent 9 years on XI, and a majority of those years we were pretty much cut off from any sort of involvement with the devs. It was frustrating to go to the FanFests just to have Sage Sundi repeat the same "I don't know" "We'll look into it" responses, then wonder if it ever got past him or whatnot.

With Yoshi-P we have it soooooo good. I think he spoils us a bit even :p XI has since gotten its own official forums, and there is some dev feedback, but still nowhere on the level we have with Yoshi-P. Heck I even remember a few years back, the subject of having official XI forums came up, and Tanaka's response was "It would be difficult to implement forums because we would have to moderate in different languages". Yet as soon as he was gone, o snap, we gots forums!

I also see why Yoshi-P says "go play WoW for a year". It's more of an example than a strict order to play WoW though lol. His basis for saying that I also agree with. Nobody creates something that is 100% original. We are always influenced by someone and/or their work. Music inspires, art inspires, anything that activates your senses can be an inspiration for a created work. This is what Yoshi means when he says "go play WoW". =)

Most of you remind me of my grandmother. Only hearing or reading the bad overlooking the whole picture/context, then poorly quoting it.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

No matter how many are actually active, they are active more than what FFXI active is. Therefore your argument is invalid. All your buds =/= 9 million people.

WoW may have been revolutionary, FFXI didn't get to do standardized the market. Therefor WoW > FFXI in terms of Business. What FFXIV is doing is making another revolutionary via inspiration of many MMOs including both FFXI and WoW.

If you want me to say the same thing lol here...

FFXI may have not been revolutionary for its time stomping out those 2D MMO's, but that day is over. Stop looking at it for inspiration your only going backwards if you do.


Your whole argument therefore are invalid.

I'm more than looking forward on how FFXIV will revolutionarize the MMO market industry than rather hearing people talking backwards about how bad is that other MMO that actually make more millions money than FFXI currently does.

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Some people cant be swayed by this, simply because they WANT to move backwards, back to the sandbox.

fanboys will be fanboys, and hate on everything else.

what is it about wow that people hate so much? and what about FFXIV is so great?

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Originally Posted by Radacci

fanboys will be fanboys, and hate on everything else.

what is it about wow that people hate so much? and what about FFXIV is so great?

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And what so great about FFXI either eh? seriously.. =.=

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

And what so great about FFXI either eh? seriously.. =.=

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never played it, so i dont know :)

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

And what so great about FFXI either eh? seriously.. =.=

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Mostly nostalgia. For many of us it was our first real MMO and we'll always look back on it fondly.

It did also have a great sense of achievement when it came to completing something or getting an item since you had to invest a lot of time and research into getting it, which was both good and bad. Good because you felt like a total baller when you got what you were going for, and bad because it pretty much just took time instead of legitimate skill.

A game like WoW is much more accessible, but I would argue heroic raids in that are considerably more challenging than FFXI's endgame, even when the game spells out exactly what every ability you'll encounter does. WoW's PVE is also incredibly fun, partially because of the accessibility (I gotta say, LFR is the best idea in a long time) but mostly due to the mechanics.

Screw that PvP though.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

A game like WoW is much more accessible, but I would argue heroic raids in that are considerably more challenging than FFXI's endgame, even when the game spells out exactly what every ability you'll encounter does. WoW's PVE is also incredibly fun, partially because of the accessibility (I gotta say, LFR is the best idea in a long time) but mostly due to the mechanics.

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I think you make a perfectly valid point but it is a matter of taste.

I have too played WoW. LFR raids nowadays have nothing to do with raiding or sense of achievement. I would even say that LFR killed WoW. This is not rage but you see subscriber numbers dropping drastically, especially since the annual passes are running out.

Comparing a "Deathwing LFR" to a Vanilla WoW 40-man raid of BWL, there is really nothing to compare. LFR has no sense of scale or achievement. You just enter, push a few buttons and win. It's a dull zerg and it doesn't matter at all if some people are standing around idly other than dodging a few ground AOEs. Back when you had to assemble 40 people on your own, you really felt like you achieved something, even tho the battle mechanics were mundane to follow.

While being able to just jump into a raid might sound awesome on paper, it removes one of the most important things an MMO offers—a community and achieving something together. The LFR would be exactly the same if you just did the encounter on your own with a bunch of bots, except that the bots wouldn't shout at you from time to time. If you dumb down an MMO so that everything is soloable (soloable even being raids where no one communicates or has to bring teamwork skills), you could just release it as a single-player RPG. And it wouldn't be good at that.

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Originally Posted by kazaran

Tellitubbies was very successful, but hurt the education value of th e youth.

There are many simple things many will flock too because of peers, but some prefer stimulation, and at least a developed story.

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This comment is win... too bad the world is full of silly faces who are amused by shiny objects.

Just read the quote in context. It's not that he's telling US to play FFXI. It's that he's telling his development team to play it.

The OP and title are misleading, as it sounds like Yoshi-P did the unthinkable and told us to play a different company's MMO. In actuality the quote was a hypothetical statement not directed at us at all.

Reading comprehension: is it a dying art?

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

Just read the quote in context. It's not that he's telling US to play FFXI. It's that he's telling his development team to play it.

The OP and title are misleading, as it sounds like Yoshi-P did the unthinkable and told us to play a different company's MMO. In actuality the quote was a hypothetical statement not directed at us at all.

Reading comprehension: is it a dying art?

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We were talking about what's so great about between FFXI and WoW. We know Yoshi-P didn't tell us to play a different MMO and at least we can discuss on why he has decided to play other MMO to make FFXIV look a standard MMO. Other than that, you are free to remind idiots who are thinking Yoshi-P told us to play something else.

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Originally Posted by Seirra_Lanzce

Contrary to WoW/FFXI-fanboy-belief, WoW has technically more subs than any MMO market, Company seek to want atleast 30%-50% of those WoW subs, therefore, going FFXI hardcore team play just wont do it.

I can do that too.

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It is unfair to exclude FFXI for inspiration towards FFXIV. While many technical aspects of FFXI are clearly outdated, that doesn't mean that FFXIV can't use other forms of it's successes, like it's approach to story telling in an MMO.

In FFXI, I felt so immersed in that game that I basically called it a second home. It's atmosphere was incredible compared to other MMO's that feel more generic to me (WoW nailed it on atmosphere also.). When I entered a dungeon, I felt that sense of danger and mystery. I felt a rewarded being able to enter Lemuria in CoP for the first time. You had that feeling that you were the central character to the world, you felt like you were the one that had to save it.

Like I said, FFXI is outdated on a technical scale, but it's style sure isn't. Even FFXIV 1.xx succeeded in this in some aspects. It doesn't have to have not out of date gameplay to bring in some inspiration.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is unfair to exclude FFXI for inspiration towards FFXIV. While many technical aspects of FFXI are clearly outdated, that doesn't mean that FFXIV can't use other forms of it's successes, like it's approach to story telling in an MMO.

In FFXI, I felt so immersed in that game that I basically called it a second home. It's atmosphere was incredible compared to other MMO's that feel more generic to me (WoW nailed it on atmosphere also.). When I entered a dungeon, I felt that sense of danger and mystery. I felt a rewarded being able to enter Lemuria in CoP for the first time. You had that feeling that you were the central character to the world, you felt like you were the one that had to save it.

Like I said, FFXI is outdated on a technical scale, but it's style sure isn't. Even FFXIV 1.xx succeeded in this in some aspects. It doesn't have to have not out of date gameplay to bring in some inspiration.

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They know this more than anyone else, and they are taking stuff and improving them into FFXIV ARR.

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Originally Posted by tobyx

I think you make a perfectly valid point but it is a matter of taste.

[snip]

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Gah, lost a giant post. Here's the short version:

Nobody takes LFR seriously. LFR isn't raiding. LFR is like jumping into a random match in TF2 -- it's fun, you get to see some stuff, and sometimes you come out with some sub-par gear to show for it.

Heroic raids are miles more difficult than anything in WoW's past. I could compare how many LFR fights actually require more player skill to complete than BWL fights. This is where a sense of accomplishment and teamwork will come in.

What I want out of FFXIV:ARR is a game where there aren't tedious and stupid tasks that need to be performed for each raid. There's no skill or fun involved in trying to line up 40 people's schedules just to enter a raid that is, let's face it, really easy. If the hardest part of a raid is getting the people online (or any other silly task, like waiting for a boss to spawn at all) then the developers have failed at creating good end-game content.

There's a reason limited lives leading into "Game over, try again from the start!" went the way of the dodo in good game design years ago. That's not challenging, that's tedious. MMOs have also started to evolve in the same way -- make the CONTENT ITSELF challenging, not GETTING TO the content challenging.
Edit - And again, LFR isn't challenging, it's just good ol' superficial fun. It's just as challenging as BWL when you get down to the actual fight mechanics, it's just more accessible.

Could only play WoW for 4 days until I lost interest. For some reason the FF mmo's I can really get into. We'll see how it turns out in beta/release but I just can't turn to another mmo at this point.

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Originally Posted by tobyx

I think you make a perfectly valid point but it is a matter of taste.

I have too played WoW. LFR raids nowadays have nothing to do with raiding or sense of achievement. I would even say that LFR killed WoW. This is not rage but you see subscriber numbers dropping drastically, especially since the annual passes are running out.

Comparing a "Deathwing LFR" to a Vanilla WoW 40-man raid of BWL, there is really nothing to compare. LFR has no sense of scale or achievement. You just enter, push a few buttons and win. It's a dull zerg and it doesn't matter at all if some people are standing around idly other than dodging a few ground AOEs. Back when you had to assemble 40 people on your own, you really felt like you achieved something, even tho the battle mechanics were mundane to follow.

While being able to just jump into a raid might sound awesome on paper, it removes one of the most important things an MMO offers—a community and achieving something together. The LFR would be exactly the same if you just did the encounter on your own with a bunch of bots, except that the bots wouldn't shout at you from time to time. If you dumb down an MMO so that everything is soloable (soloable even being raids where no one communicates or has to bring teamwork skills), you could just release it as a single-player RPG. And it wouldn't be good at that.

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LFR in WoW the the equivalent of easy mode which anyone can play which offers the worst gear. You can't play like Halo on easy mode then proclaim your the best player in the world. Normal and Heroic raids are the real content and are much more challenging.

The reason LFR was good is that it gave people who aren't skilled enough to do Normal or Heroic raids something fun to do and they get to see the content that real raiders get to see. What people get out of doing Normal and Heroic difficulties is way better gear and more of a sense of accomplishment because you beat something hard. An easy mode like LFR definitely has its place for people who aren't that good at the game or are casual can't dedicate time to a raiding guild. Normal and Hard mode raiders are kept happy with better gear drops then LFR. Last I check Blizzard still had 10m WoW subs which is a lot for a MMO, in their most recent press release on their earnings.

Can you imagine a developer suggesting playing FFXIV 1.0 for a year?

wowclonne no thanks. WoW is a horrible game.

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Originally Posted by Ruri

Could only play WoW for 4 days until I lost interest. For some reason the FF mmo's I can really get into. We'll see how it turns out in beta/release but I just can't turn to another mmo at this point.

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Aye, is norm for some people to not like it.

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Originally Posted by Riv

wowclonne no thanks. WoW is a horrible game.

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Do you even read? Lol

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Originally Posted by Riv

wowclonne no thanks. WoW is a horrible game.

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Prepare to be dissapointed then whenever you get in alpha/beta. AAR is at its core an HD WoW clone with a Final Fantasy skin painted over it. If you don't like WoW's quest chain leveling, faster paced combat, jumping, dungeon finder you probably won't like ARR.

It's not a secret Yoshi and his team did get some inspiration from WoW.

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Originally Posted by PinkamenaDiane

Prepare to be dissapointed then whenever you get in alpha/beta. AAR is at its core an HD WoW clone with a Final Fantasy skin painted over it. If you don't like WoW's quest chain leveling, faster paced combat, jumping, dungeon finder you probably won't like ARR.

It's not a secret Yoshi and his team did get some inspiration from WoW.

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Fine with me.

Though inspiration != clone. And WoW's ideas != Only / all originating from WoW.. Not saying you meant that but.. it seems to be a common misconception, didnt want it to be included in my post lol.