Community name "Gathering Fatigue"

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

It's not like this game is the primary target of RMT the way it is, so you'd do well to give us a bit more leeway with it.

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Here's the reality. Ever since the involuntary shutdown and subsequent reup of the servers, there has been a marked increase in RMT activity on Besaid. A lot of bot-followers and hordes appearing all over the place.

Gathering is not where RMTs are earning their gil. They're earning it through battlecraft leves. Get rid of all these penalties, and make the levequests reward players with guild marks and the occasional item instead of mountains of gil.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Here's the reality. Ever since the involuntary shutdown and subsequent reup of the servers, there has been a marked increase in RMT activity on Besaid. A lot of bot-followers and hordes appearing all over the place.

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Really? I haven't noticed them at all, though I've been primarily hanging around inside of cities or at Broken Water/Halatali.

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Originally Posted by Josef_Jortunn

A significant issue with this course of action is that RMTs are free to create as many characters as they like, overcoming the fatigue issue; regular users, attempting to rank up, do not have this option. This hurts us more than it hurts them.

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An example: There was a party of 10 RMT botters in Horizon the other day. All with identical names. So that's 10 accounts for the same person. So yes, the system hurts us more than it does them. What we need is a more active system of hunting the RMT like the Anti-RMT task force in FFXI. That is the only truly effective means of minimizing the impact of RMT.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Really? I haven't noticed them at all, though I've been primarily hanging around inside of cities or at Broken Water/Halatali.

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They don't appear as often at rank 30+ camps, because I imagine they tend to re-roll their combat characters by that point, so they can continue to farm random junk for NPC gil.

Im not an RMT. I mine iron ore/sand and limonite for my blacksmithing and armoring. I shouldnt have to suffer because of the threat' or RMT gathering ><. Just get rid of their accounts as you see them, EASY FIX.

And RMT's are actually earning most of their money through alchemy. You know how many alchemy bots I have spotted in limsa of karnak? i reported to the special tasks group, but they are still there ><. Who else has retainers full of 999 stacked shards? RMT BOTS!

Please SE, remove the sub-fatigue for gathering.

S-E put the cart before the horse on this one. In FFXI, people bought gil because it was difficult/time-consuming to obtain and you pretty much couldn't progress without certain items or spells. This game doesn't have that problem because gil has very little value at this point and most of your abilities are learned by leveling up.

Someone else in another topic a while a go pointed out that it seemed as if most of the elements in the game were created to deter RMT. The Market Wards, fatigue, NMs dropping crafting materials instead of items etc. As many of you have already pointed out, most of these come at the cost of penalizing legitimate players. The reason why FFXI (and other games) have RMT is because they are popular. S-E should have focused on designing systems that were easy and fun to play with to draw players in, then dealt with RMT if and when they became an issue. Instead we got systems designed with RMT in mind at the expense of usability.

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Originally Posted by quantumsaint

Instead we got systems designed with RMT in mind at the expense of usability.

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THIS. I blame Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

THIS. I blame Tanaka.

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Seriously, I think RMT did something awful to Tanaka to build a whole game around deterring them (and also slamming so many areas of profit generation on FFXI)

Please remove the RMT countermeasures for now. If RMT ever become a problem in this game (which is unlikely for a number of reasons) then I would understand putting some roadblocks in. If the GMs are doing their jobs, and SE does a good job of shutting down the websites that power them, RMT will never touch the game.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Gathering is not where RMTs are earning their gil.

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You might want to ask yourself why. Clearly this anti-RMT measure is doing its job.

If they got rid of gathering fatigue they would have to significantly reduce the amount of items obtained per gather. So how would you feel getting one log per gather, or one iron ore per gather maximum? How would you feel having to mine or log for eight hours to get what currently takes three?

You simply can't have it both ways. No matter which method SE uses, there HAS to be a limit on the amount of items a single gatherer can bring into the economy each day.

SP on the other hand, that's an entirely different thing but I've already made my points on that. Get rid of half SP on fails, make it full SP and there's the problem with gathering fatigue solved. A quick two minute fix that makes a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

You might want to ask yourself why. Clearly this anti-RMT measure is doing its job.

If they got rid of gathering fatigue they would have to significantly reduce the amount of items obtained per gather. So how would you feel getting one log per gather, or one iron ore per gather maximum? How would you feel having to mine or log for eight hours to get what currently takes three?

You simply can't have it both ways. No matter which method SE uses, there HAS to be a limit on the amount of items a single gatherer can bring into the economy each day.

SP on the other hand, that's an entirely different thing but I've already made my points on that. Get rid of half SP on fails, make it full SP and there's the problem with gathering fatigue solved. A quick two minute fix that makes a huge difference.

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have you seen how many shards are for sell in the wards? Do you think they should limit how much you can craft in a day before all your synthesis actions are all massive explosions, causing you to be inable to create anything? because there are RMT taking advantage of the fact the easiest crafting job to make money with has no such limitation.

This helps nothing in regards to RMT. RMT are still going to gather regardless, hit fatigue on one? bring out the next character, its pointless to try to stop them through gathering.

These wouldn't even be needed if the task force did their job. Since launch i have personally reported about a hundred names of RMT on Lindblum and the only ones that never came back was the group glitching their way through walls and mountains. So i ask SE, whats the point of having that taskforce box on your support site if you don't take action against OBVIOUS RMT?

As to what players said about flooding markets with items.. it's no different then getting drops off mobs that can flood markets. And they could easily make more DoL quests where you gather items for a cause and you dont get to keep them, you'd get your sp anyway.

As Xenor stated, remove the SP penalty, and leave the fail to acquire resources.

Without a limit to the influx of gathering goods, there would be a flouding/overflow that would crash the econmy value of any harvestable item.

I don't even play anymore because the game is mind numbing, but my primary goal was 50/50/50 DoL and Fatigue is one of the reasons I don't come back.

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

And they could easily make more DoL quests where you gather items for a cause and you dont get to keep them, you'd get your sp anyway.

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Being able to carry more levequests for a particular DoL would be REALLY nice! This could partially solve the problem with the reduction of sp/ xp somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Reika

have you seen how many shards are for sell in the wards? Do you think they should limit how much you can craft in a day before all your synthesis actions are all massive explosions, causing you to be inable to create anything? because there are RMT taking advantage of the fact the easiest crafting job to make money with has no such limitation.

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Crafting is different because it doesn't bring new resources into the game (apart from gil from NPCing items), you're simply using materials that already exist.

No sane gatherer wants there to be a situation where a player can bring unlimited mats into the game because the prices of everything you gather would hit rock bottom within days. They would be worth barely more than the price you get from an NPC. Look what happened to zinc, silver and obsidian ores during the period when everyone was soloing doblyns to rank up. Those ores because almost worthless.

As a crafter you may feel happy paying 500 gil per ore, but then why bother playing gathering classes at all? Only the rank 50s would benefit, because they won't need to gather again until new mats are added and then they can charge you 100k per darksteel ore while your MIN is sat at 1 because you had no motivation to rank it up due to everything being worthless.

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Originally Posted by Purplenv

As Xenor stated, remove the SP penalty, and leave the fail to acquire resources.

Without a limit to the influx of gathering goods, there would be a flouding/overflow that would crash the econmy value of any harvestable item.

I don't even play anymore because the game is mind numbing, but my primary goal was 50/50/50 DoL and Fatigue is one of the reasons I don't come back.

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No no no, they need to just remove the fail to acquire material crap. Like Raagnar said, This doesn't stop RMT AT ALL. they have like 12 characters mining at once. and the special tasks force are either slow or completely unresponsive when you report them. I reported a few myself, after 10 days they are still in limsa making shards with the same r1 gear they started with. I even have pictures, but cant upload them for reports.

This just hurts the legit player, does nothing to the RMT. I bet they dont even care that it is in place and are just laughing at SE for trying to stop them, only hurting the players that use the stuff they gather for their crafts.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

Seriously, I think RMT did something awful to Tanaka to build a whole game around deterring them (and also slamming so many areas of profit generation on FFXI)

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Answer: They wrecked FFXI on his watch. :P

If the task groups did proper investigating into RMT activities, i doubt they would have wrecked it too badly.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

Crafting is different because it doesn't bring new resources into the game (apart from gil from NPCing items), you're simply using materials that already exist.

No sane gatherer wants there to be a situation where a player can bring unlimited mats into the game because the prices of everything you gather would hit rock bottom within days. They would be worth barely more than the price you get from an NPC. Look what happened to zinc, silver and obsidian ores during the period when everyone was soloing doblyns to rank up. Those ores because almost worthless.

As a crafter you may feel happy paying 500 gil per ore, but then why bother playing gathering classes at all? Only the rank 50s would benefit, because they won't need to gather again until new mats are added and then they can charge you 100k per darksteel ore while your MIN is sat at 1 because you had no motivation to rank it up due to everything being worthless.

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Not everyone sells their materials. Like I said, I'm one of the people that uses the stuff. If I want to go out and gather 4 stacks of Iron ore for my projects, I should be able to. Not be restricted and treated like some RMT. And they didnt even say the reason for doing this was to stablize the economy, they specifically said this is an anti-RMT action. and as said, you will see tons of gathered mats in the wards anyways, because RMT's gather in packs. they will come back with 30 stacks of material, while I can barely gather over one. fair? no.

Special tasks group should be the only anti-RMT system in place. and they should do their jobs faster on that note..

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Hello fellow adventurers!

To clear up your questions, we have checked with the Dev. team and found out the following.

As a countermeasure against RMT activities, the probability of gaining items through gathering will start to decrease after repeated attempts over a long period of time. After a certain number of attempts, items will no longer be obtainable through gathering.

To explain a little more on what goes on behind the scenes, there is an internal counter which measures how often a player has attempted gathering activities. Players will start with a maximum pool of 2,500, which will decrease by 10 each time a gathering attempt is successful and yields an item. Once this number decreases to 1,000, players will find it harder to obtain items. At 0, items can no longer be obtained through gathering.

Stopping gathering for some time will bump this number back up. The recovery rate is currently set at 100 per hour.

If you have ideas and feedback on this topic, please don't hesitate to let us know.

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Please let SE know this. The best way to slow down the RMT is by not making gil hard pressed to obtain like it was in XI. a RMT can easily get 15 different people and gather a load while the legitimate players won't go that far. You're hurting us more than the RMT as of now. Just keep gil not that hard to get and a majority of people won't feel the need to waste RL money to prevent being uber gimped(with some gil sinks so we all don't have a trillion gil in a month). Please take off fatigue. If I want to excessively grind then let me. I don't need anyone telling me how long I can have fun. I could be having a blast leveling a class then BAM fatigue hits and already knowing the outcome the game gets really boring. It's like having your mom come to your room and saying you only have another hour before bedtime. It's an instant buzz kill for anything you was doing. I love to excessively grind if I have the time because I don't know how long before I get that luxury of freedom again.


I hope you pass this off or inform SE something similar. Its hurting XIV legitimate base more than it is for RMT.

As long as gaining enough currency to suit most players needs is a by-product of playing the game, no one will see the need to buy from RMT's.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Not everyone sells their materials. Like I said, I'm one of the people that uses the stuff. If I want to go out and gather 4 stacks of Iron ore for my projects, I should be able to. Not be restricted and treated like some RMT. And they didnt even say the reason for doing this was to stablize the economy, they specifically said this is an anti-RMT action. and as said, you will see tons of gathered mats in the wards anyways, because RMT's gather in packs. they will come back with 30 stacks of material, while I can barely gather over one. fair? no.

Special tasks group should be the only anti-RMT system in place. and they should do their jobs faster on that note..

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It's no good saying "RMT can do this, RMT can do that" because RMT AREN'T doing it, and that's why the economy hasn't been wrecked yet for gathered materials. If RMT did what you said nothing you can gather would be worth anything and SE would be forced to make drastic changes such as limiting the amount of materials gathered even further than now. What you're asking for is all mats to be made pretty much free. That's not a healthy economy.

I think some people just don't get basic economics on these forums. When you flood the market, the price crashes. Allowing you to bring back 300 walnut logs or iron ore per day is not going to help you, it's going to make them worth nothing. Then you'll not even want to gather them to craft because your time would be better spent making money other ways and buying them off people stupid enough to gather worthless items.

It takes what, 300 yew logs to get from 30-40 and 600 walnut to get from 40-50? Do I really want to be able to gather all of that within a few days? Why bother playing botany afterwards then? To sell logs? No, the market is flooded now. It's no good saying "not everyone sells their materials" when you've not levelled a gathering class very high. You WILL be selling your materials because you will get way more logs than you will ever need taking botany to 50. The same applies with mining and any mat obtained there. You will want those materials to be worth something when you go to sell them correct?

I think I'll just leave this thread now. I've made my points and some people will just never get it.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

To explain a little more on what goes on behind the scenes, there is an internal counter which measures how often a player has attempted gathering activities. Players will start with a maximum pool of 2,500, which will decrease by 10 each time a gathering attempt is successful and yields an item. Once this number decreases to 1,000, players will find it harder to obtain items. At 0, items can no longer be obtained through gathering.

Stopping gathering for some time will bump this number back up. The recovery rate is currently set at 100 per hour.

If you have ideas and feedback on this topic, please don't hesitate to let us know.

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Instead of making it so people just fail every attempt the devs should cause a third situation to happen within which the items that are succesfully gathered are too poor quality to use. (ex. Pine Branch -3) Make these items result in normal SP gain but totally useless in any synth. Also, give them a default value of 1 gil so people have no reason to keep them or try to sell them. As far as I can tell, people don't really care about the loss of items. It is the feeling that we are being double penalized for attempting to Grind SP that is so controversial.

All anti-RMT countermeasures programmed into the game need to go.

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Originally Posted by Reika

All anti-RMT countermeasures programmed into the game need to go.

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Yes. Just keep a database of where all the money is going.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Im not an RMT. I mine iron ore/sand and limonite for my blacksmithing and armoring. I shouldnt have to suffer because of the threat' or RMT gathering ><. Just get rid of their accounts as you see them, EASY FIX.

And RMT's are actually earning most of their money through alchemy. You know how many alchemy bots I have spotted in limsa of karnak? i reported to the special tasks group, but they are still there ><. Who else has retainers full of 999 stacked shards? RMT BOTS!

Please SE, remove the sub-fatigue for gathering.

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I have a friend who makes his money through alchemy and making shards and crystals and he is not an rmt in the least bit >.> granted he might not have that many stacked shards to sell but you shouldn't judge those who do excessive alchemy as their way of getting gil.. especially when they do not have ah high DoW or M job to do guildleves.

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Originally Posted by Moth

I have a friend who makes his money through alchemy and making shards and crystals and he is not an rmt in the least bit >.> granted he might not have that many stacked shards to sell but you shouldn't judge those who do excessive alchemy as their way of getting gil.. especially when they do not have ah high DoW or M job to do guildleves.

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Yea, you can tell who is the RMT tho. Retainer with 10 stacks, 999 fire shards. Retainer near it with 10 stacks, 999 wind shards. Retainer next to it with 10 stacks, 999 earth shards. Thats the peeps im talking about. I just mention alchemy because it is the only crafting job that can be really used by RMT's, because every crafter needs shards eventually.

Gathering and crafts are now actual jobs in this unlike at FFXI, why not focus on make them more challenging and fun instead setin penalties to it, changing them in a way it needs more interaction of user than it is now or even make them not so repetitive in tasks, so RMTs be unable to use bots, i think that would helps more and even make game more fun.

Maybe the issue relly in crafts and gathering beign repetitive so RMT can actually use bots and go lazzy.I think the answer relly on make gathering and crafts actions with more variables in midle actions (Note: don't mean make them hard or easier, but make harder the implementation of bots,) like in the case of crafts seting somesort of images a bot be unable to interpretate with the points of make some kind of shape for crafting, wathever, idk.

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Originally Posted by BadOmen

Gathering and crafts are now actual jobs in this unlike at FFXI, why not focus on make them more challenging and fun instead setin penalties to it, changing them in a way it needs more interaction of user than it is now or even make them not so repetitive in tasks, so RMTs be unable to use bots, i think that would helps more and even make game more fun.

Maybe the issue relly in crafts and gathering beign repetitive so RMT can actually use bots and go lazzy.I think the answer relly on make gathering and crafts actions with more variables in midle actions (Note: don't mean make them hard or easier, but make harder the implementation of bots,) like in the case of crafts seting somesort of images a bot be unable to interpretate with the points of make some kind of shape for crafting, wathever, idk.

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Oh I mentioned somewhere in a different thread that they should make use of that crafting timer implement indicators on there bar when it will be best to perform a synth action, and increase the outcome of that synth, while making it so spamming it right when the action becomes available will have reduced outcome. that will make it harder for craft botters.

This will penalize normal players. RMT will log chop mine automatic, they dont care about the time. But we players do and I dont want to be limited even further and further in this game. I like gathering and if I find good spot I can stay and log until I am fatigued. Sorry, another thing that is out of mind in case game is going to be pay to limit. :/

If you want to stop RMT remove leve quests = 15 RMT member party Adsaf sdf with quite normal names as well re doing these to gain gil.

Oh, well SE could also put a "Loot fatigue" on loot from common enemies, so after a while of farm we will not get items anymore. And that could work with gametime as well. If you play too much you could be restricted from access to the game. Alright, this would slower rmt a bit. I hope they will implent all of these features to fatigue RMT and players. :-)

Remove all forms of fatigue. Counter RMT by tracking them down and banning them. Also keep database of gilflow and ban people buying gil aswell. (ofcourse give them option to explain themselves if they got the gil by other means than buying it online.., this is what not happened in FF11)

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Players will start with a maximum pool of 2,500, which will decrease by 10 each time a gathering attempt is successful and yields an item. Once this number decreases to 1,000, players will find it harder to obtain items. At 0, items can no longer be obtained through gathering.

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That is 150 chops for me, then I will have a hard time to find items. Why should I bother even go below 1k when I miss log spot. RMT will still try (automation), they dont care and this will not stop them.
You give player 150 chops and then he will be fatigued with this "cant obtain item" limit ? This is not good for gathering at all. I often gig up 50 of silver ore + 60 items of lower quality, 50 logs and 50 items of lower quality. Thats over 150 limit. Well I endured fatigue, alright why not. But another limit ? I think games what are pay to play should not limit players so much. Why should I be limited with "you damaged item" when my stats are good enough to bring it up.

Is this me alone ? Why ppl are like "cool ! we need this." Lol. Everyone who shouts this is not gathering.

Remove the sp loss for a fatigued success. That is the only change that needs done.
Bada bing bada boom, next issue!

Removing all types of fatigue is honestly what needs to be done. They server little purpose at this point in the game.

SP fatigue was originally put in to keep people from hitting 50 too quickly at launch, so they could put out more content before that happened. That did not work and at this point there's no reason for it to still be around. People who level quickly will do so regardless, it's not helping anything.

Gathering fatigue is even worse. At this point in the game Gatherers are being treated like dirt. Awful SP rates outside of leves (also no party bonus, leve link or Guardian's Aspect), gathering fatigue limits the usefulness of the class as a whole, the only changes that have been made have been to the speed of gathering.

RMT isn't using gathering as a means of generating income because it's inferior to combat tenfold in terms of both gil generation and item acquisition. Also it seems to me that the GMs are doing a good job of getting rid of the bots/RMT so far. There aren't any shouting in towns that I ever see, I rarely see the bot groups and if I do I usually only see them once before they're taken care of.

Hell in Aion the GMs couldn't even be bothered to walk through the main cities to ban the RMT bots just sitting in plain sight spamming public chat.

If RMT had my account and there were no gathering fatigue, their ass would be out mining all damn day. End of story. They would not be rerolling level 10's for wind shards.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

As a countermeasure against RMT activities, the probability of gaining items through gathering will start to decrease after repeated attempts over a long period of time. After a certain number of attempts, items will no longer be obtainable through gathering.

If you have ideas and feedback on this topic, please don't hesitate to let us know.

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I think the team needs to realize the effect their supposed RMT countermeasures have on the enjoyment of legitimate players. I do believe that the community is more negatively affected by the countermeasures than RMT are.

For example, in this case, there's nothing stopping the RMT from having multiple characters on one account so when one hits this "fatigue" they simply log onto another and continue. At the same time, a legitimate player trying to earn gil or materials through proper means is penalized and their efforts are slowed.

RMT are always going to be a part of games in this genre. Nothing will stop that, but their efforts are better hindered by active means, not passive. I.E. having a Special Task Force member logging onto servers and actively seeking players engaging in RMT strategies. Using this as a basis for futher investigation into the accounts in question would be much more effective while having a minimal impact on legitimate players. As many players can attest, it's not difficult to spot bots.

Understand you'll never create a RMT-proof MMO, and an active approach is the most effective.

Want sabotage the RMT, sabotage their tools, the bots, not something that affect legitim gamers :(

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Originally Posted by Reika

If the task groups did proper investigating into RMT activities, i doubt they would have wrecked it too badly.

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The task force was created as a result of the damage done to the FFXI economy by RMT groups. The task force actually made a huge difference once it came in.

They havent gotten rid of the taru army on my server >.> maybe they dont come to Karnak. lol.

I like the thought of sabotaging their tools. Make it so when when the special tasks groups find them, they curse their account with bad tools that break items on each hit every time every day.