SE Please implement a Chonoscroll/PLEX system in FFXIV: ARR

Its not relevant anymore. quit kicking a dead horse.

Ouch, I feel cheated... no one grasped at straws to try and solve the dilema posed in my post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoxyLalonde

Ouch, I feel cheated... no one grasped at straws to try and solve the dilema posed in my post.

---

Its not an issue if its done through Crysta as other players wont be able to use their legacy status to buy it for you. edit: I mean buy and sell Crysta and players use that to pay for their subscription not buy a subscription item to trade with Crysta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Its not relevant anymore because I was wrong.

---

I fixed that for you.

If it will get you to stop whining, fine:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrien

if it works well in other games, then SE should implement it.

---

"If it works well" is objective. The feedback I have seen outside the OP assertion on games EVE and Tera is that the implementation in EVE was poor. That is not sufficient evidence to reliably assert that any mmo, let alone X|V, should implement it. If, however, for example, the argument is that a large sample size of MMO's have been successful implementing Auction houses, then that becomes a convincing argument. I inserted "all" into your quote above to point out that your assertion was lacking sufficient evidence, but I was doing it in a less verbose manner, so as to not force people to dwell too long on the matter, as there is supposed to be a core point to this thread, and that was not it.


TLDR: I know you are, but what am I, infinity.



Let us all get back on topic, please.

I've read through all the posts and I'm strongly against this.

Forget about how this affects other games. lets consider how this would affect ffxiv.
You're proposing to allow a system where people can purchase items with irl money and sell in game for gil. This would allow players to obtain gil without doing any work.

Dude put it quite nicely. a new player on day one could just buy a shit ton of it and get millions of gil. Highly unfair to pple who have spent weeks levelling their craft nd gathering jobs to get money.

Also. you tried countering an argument about being able to purchase gear by saying that in ARR, most of the best gear would be untradeable. Well, as almost all meldable gear are tradeable then no, that wont be the case.

Furthermore buying gear isnt the only way the so called "New rich player" would be able to cheat the game. You could use all the gil you got with irl money to get people to power level you and do a host of other things in exchange for gil.

It hasnt be so long since the last save so im sure you all wont have forgotten about how so many endgame linkshells on all servers were selling "White raven wins" for exorbitant amounts of gil. That would be an example of how a player who could trade irl money for gil would have an unfair advantage over a dedicated player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

If it will get you to stop whining, fine:



"If it works well" is objective. The feedback I have seen outside the OP assertion on games EVE and Tera is that the implementation in EVE was poor. That is not sufficient evidence to reliably assert that any mmo, let alone X|V, should implement it. If, however, for example, the argument is that a large sample size of MMO's have been successful implementing Auction houses, then that becomes a convincing argument. I inserted "all" into your quote above to point out that your assertion was lacking sufficient evidence, but I was doing it in a less verbose manner, so as to not force people to dwell too long on the matter, as there is supposed to be a core point to this thread, and that was not it.


TLDR: I know you are, but what am I, infinity.



Let us all get back on topic, please.

---

The way I phrase my comment I thought it would be a no brainer. There is no need for you to subtle slander, by saying I have no shame, and whining for calling you out on it. You can't prove my statement is wrong.

I'm against any exchange of real money for ingame stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GodseijuroHiko

Stop arguing with them. I had no idea models like this existed till I started Tera a few months ago. I have some friends who use this method to pay for their game. They don't have much money and basically play mmo's on a month to month basis. I don't have that problem and I'm 'almost' certain that everyone against this idea have no issue with the monthly fee as well. With all the Anti RMT methods SE used that hurt the player base, this one has the least amount of negatives. I don't know if people are deluded enough into thinking that there is a perfect solution. Low income people play?(check) Rich people give SE more money (check) Those in the middle *myself included* just continue to play. It's easy to convince yourself that other people have an advantage when you're the have not. I don't see myself getting salty just because a person's parents paid for their tuition when I had to work 2 jobs to pay for mine. Boo hoo for me. It is what it is, I worked hard, I made it, I take pride. This is all I see here. If people want to spend real money for fake money, let them. RMT has the potential to ruin the economy. Why not control the RMT to limit the damage. Have people pay for other people. I was honestly looking for a valid argument as to why it shouldn't be implemented. All I see is fear of the letters "RMT".

---

Very well said!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrien

You can't prove my statement is wrong.

---

My point, which I now repeat: Your assertion is lacking sufficient evidence.

Do you have reviews of how this benefits a plethora of mmos?
You have yet to prove your statement right, let alone give me sufficient subject matter to analyze.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrien

by saying I have no shame

---

Your words, not mine.

Edit: Twelve, can we please get back on topic?

Upon imposing that system or the free to play in FFXIV, I promise fails to play, why?, Easy. Throughout my life I have played very many MMO and I think I can say that one of the things that sets the FF, both the 11 and the 14, is the people who play. Generally, it is respectful to help people etc ... people I call good players. Let's say that the monthly added to the difficulty of the game makes people more empathetic playing it. If that system is now established or free to play, the game automatically access is out of control and began to lose value. I know I'm messing but just one example. If you go to a club with free admission you will abide there may be fights, drunks, brats etc ... however if a nightclub with Fee you know that the environment will be quieter and will have the right to demand quality. Other than that the system that monthly purchase more facilities will be giving even the gil sellers.

Sorry That text was traslator Powered By Google

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynthis

Very well said!

---

Like I said earlier, lets consider how this would affect THIS game.

Historically speaking, things have a hand of getting exploited in ffxiv, especially where gil is concerned, which is why the very possibility of implementing this scares me. I dont how things worked on other servers but I havent forgotten what happened on gugnir when atomos first popped up, b4 SE realized and nerfed him........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debola

I've read through all the posts and I'm strongly against this.

Forget about how this affects other games. lets consider how this would affect ffxiv.
You're proposing to allow a system where people can purchase items with irl money and sell in game for gil. This would allow players to obtain gil without doing any work.

Dude put it quite nicely. a new player on day one could just buy a shit ton of it and get millions of gil. Highly unfair to pple who have spent weeks levelling their craft nd gathering jobs to get money.

Also. you tried countering an argument about being able to purchase gear by saying that in ARR, most of the best gear would be untradeable. Well, as almost all meldable gear are tradeable then no, that wont be the case.

Furthermore buying gear isnt the only way the so called "New rich player" would be able to cheat the game. You could use all the gil you got with irl money to get people to power level you and do a host of other things in exchange for gil.

It hasnt be so long since the last save so im sure you all wont have forgotten about how so many endgame linkshells on all servers were selling "White raven wins" for exorbitant amounts of gil. That would be an example of how a player who could trade irl money for gil would have an unfair advantage over a dedicated player.

---

Agreed. RMT or no RMT, SE does not allow buying gil for RL money. For good reason. This post is like arguing since some people in the USA smoke crack, might as well make it legal so they can get less-expensive clean crack.
Being able to buy gil period hurts the game, especially for the reasons listed above. I don't want a legitimate way or an illegitimate way to buy gil. Keep it out of FFXIV altogether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

NOTE: This post is entirely hypothetical- I do not condone, and I am not encouraging the acts in any way- It is merely to make a point.

These numbers are also entirely not to scale. Merely to be used as an example:

Scenario 1: Buyable, tradeable Crysta


Scenario 1: True RMT


Both scenarios, at face value, have the potential free market appeal to them, one managed more by the present gil value of a subscription, the other by the dollar value of gil.

True RMT has an additional factor, that of encouraging gilsellers to use players and accounts by "camping" areas designed to be shared for profit. This issue, however, is largely preventable in present MMO game design, by isolating the activities between players, such as the leve system or a large selection of camps with similaly valued drops.

Apart from the above factor, very little is different between the two concepts. The above differences certainly cannot be the only reason why RMT is such a stigma, so I ask you what you think makes RMT so bad, and this so good? Please be specific.

---

As I see it the thought is that RMTs don't legitimately "play" the game. They use bots or other systems to make gil which causes inflation after they sell it and it is spent by the buyers. The thought is that in a system like the one proposed, people who play a lot and have more gil than they really know what to do with anyway can use some of that gil to essentially pay for their subscription. Of course this assumes that the gil legitimate players are holding would at some point be spent anyway but is now only being redistributed. I think that is a reasonable assumption since in the long run, if people feel there is nothing in the game to spend gil on then the game is probably in serious trouble because of a lack of content.

People with more money than time who really need the gil since they have little time to farm for gil can get that gil from these players instead of from RMTs. The difference being that there would be lower inflation and 2 different types of legitimate players would both be happier and continue to play.

Give them an inch, they will demand a mile. This is a slippery slope to the instant gratification mmo clones you find everywhere. I am glad others are equally skeptical.

Some arguments have been well researched, which I respect, however I will continue to show disapproval for anything that is player driven which outside of SE's design alters the game experience for the have's over the have-not's.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Give them an inch, they will demand a mile. This is a slippery slope to the instant gratification mmo clones you find everywhere. I am glad others are equally skeptical.

Some arguments have been well researched, which I respect, however I will continue to show disapproval for anything that is player driven which outside of SE's design alters the game experience for the have's over the have-not's.

---

....../nod

I've only come across this system once before, in a free text based game where donating gives a month of benefits that have everyone either donating themselves or using donator packs (aka DP's) that others have bought and sold to them. There is no RMT'ing in this game by the way, aside from buying the DP's from the creator of the game. In that game, I've seen a few typical observations from the buying and selling of DP's.

Special events like holidays spur a great jump in purchases because the items make great gifts. I buy from the site at least a dozen $5 DP's every Xmas for presents for friends, and another dozen to give away in community based competitions. I don't buy those 24+ DP's from other players but rather from the site itself. Each recipient only gets 1 DP from me and they either use it themselves or they sell it to other players for a handy 15-20mil of in game currency. To put that into perspective, rich players gamble 25 billion in game currency on big events while poor players tend to live in houses that cost about 3-5mil. This big splurge of mine happens once a year and I know many others do the same. Throughout the rest of the year, only about as many packs as are going to be directly used, are actually bought.

There are those who have never bought a DP for real money but do regularly buy them from other players using in game currency. A lot of people pay for donator privileges this way so the market flows quite freely in that regard. That is especially the case for children and others who don't have the real life money (or who don't believe in using real life money on a game) but are serious players of the game and thus can easily afford to play with in game currency that way. Casual players are more likely to throw the $5 at the site for their DP than the average 15-20mil for a DP.

Those who buy DP's in bulk (aside from special occasions) tend to fall into two categories: the professional reseller and the get rich quick casual. The professional reseller will typically buy DP's regularly but not in large quantities, attempting to stop the supply from flowing too loosely (which lowers the value of the item and thus lowers their profit) between themselves and the DP's bought by others. They are generally hard working players who see DP's as pocket money on the side and by no means see it (or try to use it) as a main source of income.

The get rich quick casual tends to not understand any of what the others do, other than buying this item with real cash = in game profit, and doing it a lot must = so much more... They tend to buy 20 packs at once and undercut the regular sellers drastically in hopes of selling everything fast and being really rich from their very first week in the game. These players usually get their wish, getting 200-400mil in their first few days. That's enough to buy a nice house and push their chests out about it. They generally have little to no experience actually playing the game before they do this and they don't understand much of the game as a direct result. They're also unlikely to have in game social interaction, unless they followed a friend to the game initially, which is unlikely as they're trying so desperately to make so much money this way when their friend probably could have helped them out with a much healthier approach. This type of player typically looses interest in the game fairly quickly. Their desire for wealth has gimped their understanding of the pride that comes from working for it and they are often easily frustrated by anything that challenges them, making them a big bang but quick quitter type of player. They're usually wealthy when they walk away from the game, so actually tend to take a lot of in game money with them out of circulation when they quit.

I buy DP's using real life cash for friends or prizes in bulk in that big end of year splurge but tend to not really have anything to do with them at any other time of the year. For my own donator status, I use the basic subscription (which is automatically continued and a little cheaper than individual DP's). When a special event for an individual is coming up, I tend to buy them a DP I've bought with in game currency just for that event. I don't sell DP's because I can't afford to buy them, but I see nothing wrong with others doing so.

For a while there, tradeable DP's became a thing of the past. The site was just introducing subscription based fees and they wanted to ensure reliable sales year round, rather than peaks and troughs all over the place. There was a great deal of player outcry at this decision as many people who couldn't (or wouldn't) subscribe were at a direct disadvantage in the game because of their real life money (or lack thereof) spent on the game. Note, no items or services are for sale by the site other than the DP's and subscriptions, but the DP's did provide a strong advantage compared to not having donator status (you had more energy to do things at all times and time required to recover from things was significantly shorter). Fairly recently (some time this year, maybe June-ish? I don't remember exactly when) tradeable DP's were reintroduced alongside the subscription payment model. It's virtually as if they never left, DP's being bought and sold regularly at a stable price pretty quickly and a lot more people with DP status once again.

The creators of the site haven't actually released financial reports (as far as I know) so I can't definitively state that this many DP's were sold, that's how subscriptions grew/dwindled, so much/little money came into the game as a result of this/that action/situation/whatever. All I can really do is give anecdotal evidence that I and people I know spent significantly more on the game with the ability to buy DP's, significantly more people within the game seemed to have donator status when using in game currency was a possible way to get it, the game did not die with the reintroduction of DP's, a lot of people I knew left when DP's became hard to get (because they couldn't/wouldn't spend real money on the game and saw no point in playing the game when they couldn't be on an even playing field with everyone else who paid for subscriptions) and in general, a lot of people found it OK to support the game via other people who had the cash to spare as opposed to through their own pockets while still being just as loyal to the game as any other player was (aside from those who quit because they felt the removal of tradeable DP's was a stab in their back).

I'm not saying that this sort of system will work in every game. I'm not trying to say that it's without flaws or that it's not a thinly veiled RMT attempt by a game creator who could have followed many other routes. I am however saying that in the particular case of the one game I've seen this system used, it has worked, it has worked well, it has not broken anything, it has helped a lot of people, and those who abused it usually quickly got bored and quit. I like the system as a whole and I believe buying and trading of crysta (sourced officially) would do wonders of both the company and the players. Some people may even simply want to donate to the company so buy a bunch of extra crysta and hoard it, never to be used/sold/given away. Perhaps this could even open up new payment options for people and places that don't meet SE's current systems (like Aussies can't buy crysta but we could buy it from another player and use it then).

This was a long mail of anecdotal stuff, mainly just observances of the system in a completely different game, but maybe it'll help others see what has been done in working financial models like that, what can be gained and lost with such things, etc. To those who got through the whole post, you have my sympathy and I'm sorry that I'm not more succinct... I tried to include details even though it made the whole thing so much longer because very few details have been given in this whole thread, and without details there can be very little firm understanding.

Good luck petitioning for tradeable crysta, but just as I don't believe the introduction of this system would break anything, I also don't believe that we'll break anything by not having it either. At worst, we'll have fewer subscribers, hard working folks who could easily afford to pay to play with gil from a week or two into their first free month, never actually paying another cent but working hard within the game, stimulating the purchasing of crysta by others, stimulating the in game economy with the many results of their hard work, etc. Yes, I'm biased towards the system; I think it would be a shame to lose people who can't/won't support a subscription based payment model if they are people who would love the game and be great fellows to us all.


PS. If anyone knows what game I've been talking about all this time, drop me a line over there and you'll get added to my Xmas DP list ;P Limit of 5 people who first apply if there's an unexpected flood of mails XD And no, I'm not going to say what the game was or encourage others to join it or anything like that. We just need other stuff to do while this game is down and it doesn't look like we'll get it back in time for an Xmas event this year :(

I think it would mess up the economy in the game. Stuff would get more expensive because gil would be easy to get for the people with a big wallet irl, leaving the other players behind. Remember that Atomos crystal exploit? Ward prices got crazy, only difference was that everyone in the game could do it.

I'm ok with buying stuff in the game with real money as long as those items are cosmetic only and untradeable. Anything that would give players an advantage will never get support from me, the ideas might be good but as soon as people can buy gil with real money this idea will become something else. The thing Ubisoft is doing with AC3 where you can buy yourself the best stuff in multiplayer is something that needs to die in a fire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

... however I will continue to show disapproval for anything that is player driven which outside of SE's design alters the game experience for the have's over the have-not's.

---

I completely agree! Now, I fully admit that this enhances the gaming experience for the "have's" but throughout this, and many similar discussions on the forum, I fail to see how it diminishes it for "the have-not's". If it doesn't, i.e. the "have-not's" have the same gaming experience, plus a few bucks making them overall better off and the "have's" get the enhanced gaming experience they are willing to pay for, I really don't see the downside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debola

Historically speaking, things have a hand of getting exploited in ffxiv, especially where gil is concerned, which is why the very possibility of implementing this scares me. I dont how things worked on other servers but I havent forgotten what happened on gugnir when atomos first popped up, b4 SE realized and nerfed him........

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lirion

I think it would mess up the economy in the game. Stuff would get more expensive because gil would be easy to get for the people with a big wallet irl, leaving the other players behind. Remember that Atomos crystal exploit? Ward prices got crazy, only difference was that everyone in the game could do it.

---

I agree that Atomos screwed up the economy because of the INSANE amounts of gil that were introduced into the Eorzean economy. The same argument can be said is the damage done by RMTs but I am not at all convinced it would apply to this suggestion. At most some people would spend a little more time crafting and gathering to make gil to pay for their subscriptions but that might also raise the liquidity of the market wards by bringing in more goods which at least on Ragnarok would have been hugely beneficial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lirion

I think it would mess up the economy in the game. Stuff would get more expensive because gil would be easy to get for the people with a big wallet irl, leaving the other players behind. Remember that Atomos crystal exploit? Ward prices got crazy, only difference was that everyone in the game could do it.

I'm ok with buying stuff in the game with real money as long as those items are cosmetic only and untradeable. Anything that would give players an advantage will never get support from me, the ideas might be good but as soon as people can buy gil with real money this idea will become something else. The thing Ubisoft is doing with AC3 where you can buy yourself the best stuff in multiplayer is something that needs to die in a fire.

---

There is no money being introduced into the game with this method, this is completely far different issue than Atomos.

I think this could make the RMT problem worse. All they do is farm gil to sell for RL money, and this system would give them the opportunity to play for free at the same time.

SE has been at war with RMT for years, why would they want to introduce anything that could help them? Or to turn their own player base into (reverse) RMT? That would be pretty hypocritical.

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy? I don't think there will be enough people willing to pay RL money for gil to keep up with the people who would rather just pay gil for their subscription.

They could always make the pass bought in game from an NPC for a crazy ammount of gil, so they could set the price... but gil doesn't pay the bills.

And finally, as we've seen time and time again: people will always find a way to exploit. So I think it's best if we just leave it alone.

I know this system from EvE Online and support the introduction of tradeable Crysta ingame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chardrizard

There is no money being introduced into the game with this method, this is completely far different issue than Atomos.

---

Gil might not be introduced but you're buying an item which you can sell making your player get more gil. Buy more items, sell, make gil. It will still have the same effect. Just like you got crystals, sold to npc, made more gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

I think this could make the RMT problem worse. All they do is farm gil to sell for RL money, and this system would give them the opportunity to play for free at the same time.

---

It doesn't help them because they don't need it. All they need to do (and what they currently do) is to use credit card fraud or to steal accounts to have infinite supply of accounts.

Quote:

---

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy? I don't think there will be enough people willing to pay RL money for gil to keep up with the people who would rather just pay gil for their subscription.

---

You may not think it, but experience proves you wrong. In both EVE and TERA there's never shortage of offer to match the demand.

Quote:

---

And finally, as we've seen time and time again: people will always find a way to exploit stuff like this. So I think it's best if we just leave it alone.

---

Again, an assumption born from lack of knowledge. In other games they aren't abused (and if there's a game in which the playerbase WILL abuse any system that gives them a chance to, that's EVE), because the system is ironclad, and you can't turn the items back into real money.

There's no reason to believe that the final fantasy XIV audience will manage where the EVE playerbase didn't in five years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lirion

Gil might not be introduced but you're buying an item which you can sell making your player get more gil. Buy more items, sell, make gil. It will still have the same effect. Just like you got crystals, sold to npc, made more gil.

---

Economy doesn't work like that. With this system while a person's buying power increase, anoter's buying power is reduced, so the total buying power remains the same.

By selling to NPCs you *create* money. Devaluing money itself in the process. With this system there's absolutely no money created -> No effect on the economy.



To put it down simply, and to be bluntly honest, whoever says that this system wouldn't work here because the final fantasy audience is somehow more exploit-ready than others either never played other MMORPGs or he's simply talking without the slightest knowledge of the market.

EVE online is the largest den of scum and villany in the galaxy. Final fantasy (XI or XIV) players are like harmless kids (exploiting potential-wise) compared to a large portion of the EVE online playerbase.

The fact that the PLEX system resisted exploit in that game is all the demonstration we need that, with the proper failsafes, it's a very safe system to use.

There's a lot to be learned by observing other games. Some people around here should learn that lesson. Luckily SE seems to have learned it already with the advent of Yoshida.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

I think this could make the RMT problem worse. All they do is farm gil to sell for RL money, and this system would give them the opportunity to play for free at the same time.

SE has been at war with RMT for years, why would they want to introduce anything that could help them? Or to turn their own player base into (reverse) RMT? That would be pretty hypocritical.

---

This system requires SE to be more strict and efficient about RMT. CCP (EvE dev) has eliminated almost all RMT simply by introducing PLEX, making game mechanics unappealing for RMT and cloasely watching the flow of currency. This idea is not meant to be THE cure for RMT, it's a way of taking power from them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy? I don't think there will be enough people willing to pay RL money for gil to keep up with the people who would rather just pay gil for their subscription.

---

Since the introduction of PLEX in EvE there wasn't single day without them being seeded on the market. Even if there are none available for the moment: Just buy a GTC from SE. It's ONE way of paying and they're not required to keep this way of "paying" available for players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

And finally, as we've seen time and time again: people will always find a way to exploit stuff like this. So I think it's best if we just leave it alone.

---

Then SE has to find the loophole and plug it.


Sorry for grammar, i'm not a native speaker.

I see couple of issues, and one is likely due to lack of understanding, and other is SE related ...

I have played EVE for over 1-1/2 years, started with one account, which is mostly paid via monthly subs with real cash. When I left when I finally got bored with EVE, I had three active accounts, the additional two were paid with PLEX.

First of all, it seems a lot of argument against the PLEX system has little understanding on how this system can benefit SE, and helps SE expand/retain its player base.

When I left over 2 years ago, CCP's quarterly statement was on avg with each player having 1.9 accounts. I myself knew of many players who has been playing EVE Online since the beta days, or over 6 years, and played hardcore players with 3-4 accounts, mostly with their accounts paid via PLEX.

How PLEX works, is that, the player must first spend $15 on CCP's website, get a generated CODE, then they have the option to either apply that code to their monthly sub, or convert the code ingame into the PLEX inventory item, which can then be sold to other players like any other in game item, or still apply it to your monthly sub. So in the end, someone has to pay CCP that $15 for the PLEX.

This is CCP's approach to reducing RMT transactions. Because as said in one of the posts, now the RMTs has to competite with the whole player base, and not just other RMTs. This also helps CCP to expand/retain their player base, because now players has a method to play the game w/o having to pay cash because they can exchange their in game money -> PLEX -> monthly sub. I was able to expand my one account to three accounts because I was making enough in game money so I didn't have to pay real cash for the two additional accounts. The price of the ingame PLEX is purely market driven. During the time period I played, it ranged from 270m to 330m. All of this ensures all the real cash is going to CCP, while players have a method to play the game for free.

I myself would like to see SE implement such a system.

However, this brings up the 2nd issues ...

In order for this to take place, SE must first implement a decent market trading system that and allows the player base to do buy/sell trading and hence player base controlled market. Many have claimed this PLEX system will destabilize the market because it allows influx of cash to ingame money. The truth of the matter is, it actually helps stabilize the market because people now must associate their wallet to ingame item prices. A relic double meld sold at 30m avg just got undercut to 25m because someone has too much time SBing/crafting will not as likely to happen when real dollar is associated to it. A level 45 item costing less then a level 8 item should also much less likely to happen, because now in game money = real money, and not some free-giveaway currency. In addition, ingame currency is removed from the game because some players are now using it to buy PLEX which fees their monthly subs.

Hope this shares some light on the matter ...

jc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

All they need to do (and what they currently do) is to use credit card fraud or to steal accounts to have infinite supply of accounts.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

an assumption born from lack of knowledge.

---

lol

Again, you say in those games they didn't exploit. Don't underestimate some of the XI/XIV community.

So answer me this, which one are YOU? Are you the one buying the scroll to sell, or the one buying the scroll to use to play for free? And if the latter, how much would you be willing to pay with gil?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

Also, what do you do when your subscription runs out, and there is no scroll on AH to buy?

---

This is why CCP has two ways for you to pay for your sub, via monthly cash payment, or appy a PLEX code in game.

You can always fall back to good old cash, and now with the option of making enough gils in game to pay for your next month's sub. ;p

jc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mamakat

lol

Again, you say in those games they didn't exploit. Don't underestimate some of the XI/XIV community.

---

I'm afraid you largely overestimate them.

EVE Online is a truly player-driven economy where exploit is part of the sandbox system and where people infiltrate corporations for years in order to spy, steal their assets or destroy them.

The fact that the PLEX system isn't exploited in that kind of environment is plenty insurance that it could be safely used here.

I'm sorry (and I don't mean it as a positive thing anyway, it's one of the reasons why I hate part of the EVE community), but the FF playerbase is made of harmless infants in comparison, exploit potential-wise.

We don't have Goonswarm here, thank goodness. If a large number of them were to move here for some reason, they'd own the economy in a month.

Quote:

---

So answer me this, which one are YOU? Are you the one buying the scroll to sell, or the one buying the scroll to use to play for free? And if the latter, how much would you be willing to pay with gil?

---

I'm neither. I normally pay my monthly fee and don't like spending real money on virtual items. I guess would possibly use the system to pay my account if my monetary situation were to get tight or if I had too many games to pay for with cash.

Making a comparison with TERA's prices, I'd probably be willing to spend 2-5 million gil (or 200k-500k considering the slashing by ten in ARR) for a month, but that depends a lot on offer/demand and my situation. Hard to determine how much I would spend when I'm not in need to do it yet.

Which one am I? I'm the one that would like to see SE put a spike in the wheel of RMT AND one that wants this game to be successful, knowing for a fact that a system like this would help the game retain more accounts from people on the fence if to resub or not (Because they don't play as much or because they play other games as well). As I said before it's also a lot easier to catch back the attention of players that retained their account in its active status.

This system removes a barrier between people and keeping their account active, increasing subscriber retention and giving SE more tools to show their users the evolution of the game.

I know very well (by experience and education) that the more options people have to give you money, the more likely it is that they will. More money for SE means a better/bigger game for me, and for everyone playing it. And that's the primary reason why i'm suggesting this system.

I think people are going the wrong way here. The main problem with this system, in my opinion is the unfairness it brings to the game. RMT's in the game already make it annoying by giving cheaters the ability to get gil with irl money. Y bring up a system that would do the same thing?.

RMT will exist either way you slice it. May as well let it be controlled RMT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debola

I think people are going the wrong way here. The main problem with this system, in my opinion is the unfairness it brings to the game. RMT's in the game already make it annoying by giving cheaters the ability to get gil with irl money. Y bring up a system that would do the same thing?.

---

There's no unfairness. It simply converts time into time through money. People that would pay to get more gil don't have that money grow from trees.

Your perception of unfairness seems to come from the idea that people that have disposable RL income for some reason don't deserve it. Reality check: Normally they do.

The problem of RMT doesn't come from the fact that they allow "cheaters" (careful choice of words here) to get gil. It comes from the fact that they bring in massive workforces 24/7 to compete against players for drops and the control of the market in order to maximize their gains, and from the fact that they spam players with their ads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charismatic

RMT will exist either way you slice it. May as well let it be controlled RMT.

---

This + Tera is all but dead in half of it's supported regions anyway. If you want to play, just pay for a sub. If you have little to not time to play and still want to play..pay for a sub. XIV doesn't have the luxury to pussyfoot with systems like this when they have much bigger hurdles to overcome: Like getting people to play and stay.

And people didn't join when it was F2P and you could get CE's, let alone standard games for under $10.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quesse

Agreed. RMT or no RMT, SE does not allow buying gil for RL money. For good reason. This post is like arguing since some people in the USA smoke crack, might as well make it legal so they can get less-expensive clean crack.
Being able to buy gil period hurts the game, especially for the reasons listed above. I don't want a legitimate way or an illegitimate way to buy gil. Keep it out of FFXIV altogether.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Charismatic

RMT will exist either way you slice it. May as well let it be controlled RMT.

---

...........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Abriael

There's no unfairness. It simply converts time into time through money. People that would pay to get more gil don't have that money grow from trees.

Your perception of unfairness seems to come from the idea that people that have disposable RL income for some reason don't deserve it. Reality check: Normally they do.

The problem of RMT doesn't come from the fact that they allow "cheaters" (careful choice of words here) to get gil. It comes from the fact that they bring in massive workforces 24/7 to compete against players for drops and the control of the market in order to maximize their gains, and from the fact that they spam players with their ads.

---

Don't make that assumption cos thats not were i was going. I just think any system which allows the use of irl money to interfere with the game is bad. period. I personally like it the way it is, the rmt's we currently have are annoying but we're used to em.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elexia

This + Tera is all but dead in half of it's supported regions anyway.

---

TERA is dead in europe because frogster handled it terribly. It has nothing to do with Chronoscrolls, even just because, as a matter of simple fact, chronoscrolls are only available on US tera, which is alive and well. They're not available in Europe at all.

Quote:

---

If you want to play, just pay for a sub. If you have little to not time to play and still want to play..pay for a sub. XIV doesn't have the luxury to pussyfoot with systems like this when they have much bigger hurdles to overcome: Like getting people to play and stay.

---

Guess what? Helping to get people to play and stay is exactly the primary purpose and effect of this system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debola

Don't make that assumption cos thats not were i was going. I just think any system which allows the use of irl money to interfere with the game is bad. period. I personally like it the way it is, the rmt's we currently have are annoying but we're used to em.

---

Personal taste is a tad weak as an economy-related argument. Telling that something is "bad" or "unfair" doesn't make it so.

Hell, GW2 is making a killing on sanctioned RMT, especially because they know most people will want the easy(ier) way out instead of grinding. Like for the commander book, on some days you can spend more money than you would on other stuff, like dinner, bills etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debola

...........

---

I would actually argue that people should be able to get less-expensive clean crack (so long as it is used responsibly and in private) but that is a topic to be discussed elsewhere.

I'll stand on the side of those saying confidently, "No thanks. We don't want this in FFXIV."

It may work well for other games, but it won't work well in FFXIV for many reasons. One is, SE need the funds from the subscriptions at the game's launch to float happily and be able to pay costs. After such a terrible start with v1, I don't know how anyone can not realise the significant importance of this fact. They lost a lot of money and need to recoup costs, get subscription numbers up and drum up interest for new players. You might argue they'd get the funds eventually, but until all the transactions are sorted out ... the money technically doesn't exist. "Free" subscription fees certainly don't help here either.

After seeing the debacle with Atomos gil-hoarding and selling what is effectively a win on certain fights (Garuda, Rivenroad - Hard), I have no desire to see these people earn even more gil and certainly not real-life money. Was a guy in a social ls I was part of. Bragged about having over 90m gil from Atomos event alone, his attitude became very ignorant and egotistic against those who had less money. He would throw gil at materia, getting people to do things in-game for him, paying for NM kills; basically making himself better geared than others. I have absolutely no desire to see this type of behaviour become even more common. You've all seen how an over-saturation of gil raises prices in general, because sellers start to get greedy and the rich are too rich to care.

It also costs money to design and introduce a system like this, and right now, SE most likely have neither the resources or the desire to introduce it. Let's not try and overcomplicate things. Some of us won't be convinced however much others think it works in other games, and we'll just have to agree to disagree.