What XIV can take from XI to make it better

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

24 hour pop NM's were my favourite part of XI, my LS always got claim because we had dedication. we used one of those packet sniffer bots.

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True story.

it can take all the ff11 players who wont stop trying to make 14 into 11 and put them back into 11.

its okay to rip ideas right out of another game as long as its not XI.

who the hell wants those skilled people cluttering up a game clearly meant for people with half a brain and one arm. this is what will happen if any idea's or systems are copied from XI, it will bring people with patience and logical thinking skills and we cant have that.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

its okay to rip ideas right out of another game as long as its not XI.

who the hell wants those skilled people cluttering up a game clearly meant for people with half a brain and one arm. this is what will happen if any idea's or systems are copied from XI, it will bring people with patience and logical thinking skills and we cant have that.

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Clearly they're just all masochists. I did enjoy HNMs and even NMs that didn't respawn in 5 minutes or instantly, it not only kept certain gear rare it also gave you a challenge in the earlier days (HNMs) which broke up the event pattern.

When I heard the guy behind CoP was one of the main directors for XIV, I had high hopes for an amazing MMO.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I did have a HNM shell. Rampant botting was a common misconception, and an excuse used by those who weren't dedicated enough to get claim. "wah he botted for claim wah"

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Which is how you were able to beat the droves of players using Mr. Argus / Teleport n Claim bots?

On a serious note I have to agree with others on a number of points, so I'll try to do this in order of relevance:

1. Storyline & Lore: A storyline that is in depth and of interest, including a number of distinct individuals. One that begs to be read instead of skipped through. Lore that is relevant, that puts the game into a historical context. Maybe even mention Vanadeil as having existed in one of the past Umbral eras, could explain why we still have the same races but slightly different through evolution (tailess galkas, smaller headed tarus etc). I'm the kind of guy that reads those dusty tomes in the conjurers guild abut how each era, year, month, day, hour and second in game are associated with a specific element. It's a shame the elemental time frames aren't of more importance other than cosmetic...

2. Jobs and Classes: Leveling up should be fun. It shouldn't be tedious, boring and repulsive. The problem with FFXIV, as others have mentioned, is that lvling up can be so mundane via levequests that you are inclined to PL the rest of your jobs to 50 after having legitimately lvled up your first job. This game encourages PLing on a level unparalleled to others, and I think it is ruining the journey from 1 to 50. Crafting also falls into this category, you just spam enter essentially. Sure you can get a lot more exp per synth while paying attention to your quality but in the end if you are aiming for the luminary tools you may as well spam enter through the achievements while watching a movie and you will get 50 eventually.

3. Leveling: Remove power leveling. Increase level cap and make it difficult to lvl up. Add more transitory environments to level up in with a variety of mobs and surroundings. I personally don't like that leveling is so casual friendly and can be done solo via levequests an the like. I would have prefered a party play lvling system that was challenging and forced players to focus on their role. E could have added a couple of solo friendly classes like they did with BST in ffxi.

4. Environment: varied landscapes would be nice. Like Gramul (i think?) said, there is nothing exciting about running through yalm after yalm of the same colored stone in the middle of a huge friggin desert (thanalan). The same can be said for la noscea and gridania. Although there are minor details that change from place to place, the general theme of the geography hardly changes from lvl 1 sheep farming (outside limsa) to lvl 40 raptor farming (iron lake). It's bland and repetitivee - one more reason to PL through the ranks. At least in XI there was a sequential progression from valkrum dunes to quifim island and so on through crawlers nest etc. Each zone was highly distinctive from the other and begged to be explored.

5. NMs and HNMs: What's the point in "camping" an NM that spawns every 5 minutes? Where is the pride or sense of accomplishment in that? Remember the terms U/U meant unique and untradeable - and in XI these items were relatively "unique" due to their rarity. Joyeuse? You RDMs know what I'm talkin about. I don't see anything wrong with NMs that have 3, 5, 8, or 12 hour respawns in conjunction with HNMs that have 24, 36, 48 or 72 hour timers. Drop rates can be adjusted. SE just needs to be vigilent against teleport claim bots and the like. These mobs should drop great loot, U/U or not, this generates an economy, an event around which linkshell's can crystalize and builds a sense of competition and community. I know: roaming Primals blah.

6. Stats: Stats should make a difference. No more Ifrit reindeer / swimsuit runs. That's just wrong. I want to see a noticabe difference in my HQ rate if I wear all the +HQ rate gear in the game. It shouldn't be too hard to do. As a cnj/whm MND/PIE should be favored, but there should be a sacrifice made at the expense of one or the other. If yo uwant max mnd you have to lose some pie, if you want max pie you have to lose some mnd, if you want the best of both worlds you wont max out either. Both should have their pros and cons depending on the content being faced and the player style (spells used).

7. Chocobo Digging: I'm just using this an an example of a side element of the game that was largely ignored at first due to a hidden skill that led players to believe chocobo diggind was useless. Lo and behold turns out you could dig up elemental ore and a variety of valuable objects after having leveled up your hidden chocobo skill in various zones. I would love the implementation of lucrative yet occult activities. Which leads me to my next point...

8. Gardening: I know, it's comming in 2.0 along side chocobo farms and player housing. Thank the twelve...

9. Danger: Goblins are passive, dafuq? The only sense of danger in FFXIV is when you are trying to get past level 60-70 dragons, raptors, toads and pigs to get to some completely useless Aetheryte node in some utterly useless and reclusive corner of the map which awards you with a witty achievement... Greeaaat. I used to hate exp loss on death in XI but it actually forced me into being utra aware and carefull of my surroundings and my actions in a group. We need more of this. Remember mining for ore in Ifrit's Cauldron? Who DID NOT think that was fun? I get an drenaline rush jsut thinking about it. Yes, Please.

plus other stuff

FFXI had some unique endgame. I loved Limbus, so I'd like to see something like that again. It'd have to be instanced though.

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Originally Posted by PalidorCarbuncle

If anyone is better than me, they are using bots.

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Cool story, bro.

The variety of jobs and the subclass system for the jobs (kinda already have it with classes) or make advanced jobs

thaumaturge to black mage to black wizard.

Gladiator to Paladin to Holy warrior

Class/Job/Carrier

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Absolutely nothing, keep both games unique rather than try to make them both into one.

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Yes because it's not like any majorly successful game has ever taken things that worked well in other games and tweaked them for their own purposes.


:rolleyes:

The long leashes mobs had.

The danger.

An MMO designed around open-world content rather than heavily instanced.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

24 hour pop NM's were my favourite part of XI, my LS always got claim because we had dedication.

There needs to be more long term events with low(ish) drop rates, so the dedicated players will have something to do.

what else from XI would you like?

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Keep posting please. Your words are rare bits of intelligence floating in this sea of bad. What you're saying was true on release and it's true right now. Just because one pays 60 bucks for a game does not mean that they should get baby-stepped to every item that want, which they game pretty much does to be honest.

Making content "Challenging" is nothing but a farce. The "challenge" is only there until the majority of the population becomes aware of a strategy. I know probably 95% of this forum is made up of lower tier casual players from XI who have nothing positive to say about the end game system, or even worse, people who didn't even experience XI's end game system yet criticize it to no end; but this is doesn't change the truth. Nothing in this game is really "rare".

Darklight bodies?

http://i45.tinypic.com/b5jotw.png

Having a body abjuration from a king HNM meant something in XI. It meant dedication. The high tier bodies in this game just mean you stood in the right spot during the same repeatable instance that you can do whenever you want with whoever you want.

Relics? White Ravens?

http://i47.tinypic.com/wit203.png

This sums up my feelings on that. Complete jokes.

2.0 needs to have something worth playing the game for.

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Originally Posted by bobbygunz

The long leashes mobs had.

The danger.

An MMO designed around open-world content rather than heavily instanced.

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The leash range should be based on monster type and overall damage/eminity.

We have a lot of monsters chasing vast ranges for wrist flicking but give up in 2 seconds when you beat their ass silly and just need more mp or something.

I would love to see a more expansive world, the same 5 zones gets a little boring. I loved XI because each zone was unique and made exploration fun.

I'd also like to see more cities and places you can actually go to and do things in, not just a cluster of NPCs sitting out in the middle of nowhere. I think it would be neat if there were more in depth story lines tied to each city/town or faction.

I would also like to see XIV use more of the vertical axis when it comes to navigation. Meaning, in other MMOs, you're able to climb up and down on top of buildings and really explore a city in your own way. I've played DnD online and my favorite past time was running around on the rooftops. Why should we be limited to the fences and the majority of invisible barriers that keep us safe on the ground? Wouldn't it be more fun to be able to take that short cut by jumping over the railing in the coliseum to get to the lower level? :D Or jump off towers or docks in Limsa and go for a swim? Sure some jumps could end in peril, but that's what makes it fun. :)

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

-snip-
2.0 needs to have something worth playing the game for.

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This, however people say MMOs like that are "dead" or "Go back to (insert)"..we'll see how long ARR lasts if it's easy to blow through and no long term goals.

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Originally Posted by Lumia

I would love to see a more expansive world, the same 5 zones gets a little boring. I loved XI because each zone was unique and made exploration fun.

I'd also like to see more cities and places you can actually go to and do things in, not just a cluster of NPCs sitting out in the middle of nowhere. I think it would be neat if there were more in depth story lines tied to each city/town or faction.

I would also like to see XIV use more of the vertical axis when it comes to navigation. Meaning, in other MMOs, you're able to climb up and down on top of buildings and really explore a city in your own way. I've played DnD online and my favorite past time was running around on the rooftops. Why should we be limited to the fences and the majority of invisible barriers that keep us safe on the ground? Wouldn't it be more fun to be able to take that short cut by jumping over the railing in the coliseum to get to the lower level? :D Or jump off towers or docks in Limsa and go for a swim? Sure some jumps could end in peril, but that's what makes it fun. :)

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You know the maps are being completely changed right? With smaller but more specialised zones and the inclusion of jump, you may yet get your wish :D.

mmm 24 hour pops for a quest related NM

pass the popcorn please

interesting zones with atmosphere

ie sactuary of zi toh (w/e)
tornadoes
beadacine glacier (add a rock/ice climbing mini game please)

Might be a long read but this sums up how I feel. Some say I'm simply being nostalgic and some have even said "don't compare FFXIV to FFXI, but I say "why not?" FFXI was Square's first entry in the MMO market and a few major flaws aside, it was fantastic. Every attempt by Square to create another MMO is going to be benchmarked against FFXI.

http://boredom-inspires.blogspot.com...our-trust.html

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Absolutely nothing, keep both games unique rather than try to make them both into one.

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I read this many times, but taking inspiration from a beautiful game like FFXI it's not lack of originality. Yoshi-P said several times how his team is focused on "Modern MMORPG", and this also means that something will be copied from other games. There are points that don't need "originality" (The concept of Dungeon/Raid is quite old, isn't it?! :) ) and others, for example Battle System and World Immersion that should be renewed in each new game.

High Notorius Monster:
In a "softer" way. Not 72h repop time, or similar absurdities. Maybe with a Summon System, based on droppable seals from other minor NM. (Nothing comparable to actual system, with funny and weak NMs)

Unforgettable Music:
I'm quite sure this is already in their plans.

Dangerous Places:
That feel of terror you have while walking in a cold and dark land... Mor Dhona with its Basilisk LV 90+ it's not what I mean. :p

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You're right, but that doesn't mean they need to take more stuff from XI. FFXI is still running- there is no need whatsoever to go out and clone it.

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Sorry dont mean to come off like an ass but FFXI is not running. at least not the game most of us fell in love with. this is my most hated statement i see on these forums. believe me i would play it again if that were the case.

The only thing I can think of: make travel worthwhile. The one thing I miss most from FFXI was that feeling of adventure just from travelling. My first time going from Bastok to San D'oria, being afraid of the goblins and not being sure if I'd make it or not was amazing. It's my opinion that fast-travel systems destroy that feeling, and GW2's teleport system really drove it home for me. I used to fight for the Aetheryte teleports, but now... maybe make fast travel a little more meaningful? A spell or scrolls or whatever. I'm not sure how it could work in today's market, if at all.

Before I left FFXI.. I made Almace+1, full creed+2 and Mavi+2 sets, reached lv90, and I started since PC launch. With that long history, for me the most fun challenging things in XI is contents like storylines, Magian Trials, Dynamis, Salvage, ZNM, Sky, Sea, and Abyssea. The content that I listed here kept me busy and involved with leading random people in my party, and doing stuff with my small ls. I did all that without bothering with HNM.

In fact for me, the most frustrating thing in XI was HNM. Again, to me that is more frustrating than challenging because there is only one thing you have to keep track of and that is time. Factor in third party cheating tools, mpk, and stealing attempts from other LS with that, and that is enough to take fun out of the game and make you more frustrated than anything else which is why I didn't do it.

Now if the dev team make HNM with long term goals with elite drops, I think that will only lead to disaster because further down the line when level cap is increased there will be more suitable equipment for the new levels. I don't mind if the dev team put HNM in this game, but I think it is too soon for it. Lv50 or 60 is just not high enough for super elite stuff in my opinion.

Gear swapping. An AH that does NOT display the current prices for stuff (undercutting is absolutely insane in this game). Long term goals. Slower leveling (as it is it's just WAY too fast).

And to those of you who like to exaggerate saying shit like "carrying 60 pieces of gear for 1 job, no thanks", remember that we didn't even have half the inventory space we have in XIV. It was 1/4th of XIV's inventory space in XI for a long time, and while I had about 4 sets for one of my jobs and 3 for another, I could still carry gear for 2 of my jobs at a time and still have a little bit of extra space to carry stuff around. <.<

Not to mention people already carry all of their gear for all of their jobs and classes on them as is in XIV..so can't exactly use the argument about carrying "a lot of gear" lol. People even carry around crafting mats all the time.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Gear swapping. An AH that does NOT display the current prices for stuff (undercutting is absolutely insane in this game). Long term goals. Slower leveling (as it is it's just WAY too fast).

And to those of you who like to exaggerate saying shit like "carrying 60 pieces of gear for 1 job, no thanks", remember that we didn't even have half the inventory space we have in XIV. It was 1/4th of XIV's inventory space in XI for a long time, and while I had about 4 sets for one of my jobs and 3 for another, I could still carry gear for 2 of my jobs at a time and still have a little bit of extra space to carry stuff around. <.<

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AH that doesn't display prices? GTFO How am I supposed to know what something is worth ? Google it take your word for it?

As everyone has mentioned in previous posts, I agree with a bunch of the additions. I think they have to raise the level cap right away to 60 and make the time from 50 to 60 take at least as long as it did from 1-50. This might encourage some exp parties and also give some meaning to gear you get. In fact I would increase the amount of exp needed for every level starting at 10 so that gear has more meaning throughout the leveling process. Why get that bow of owls when you will be level 30 in 2 hours and the level 30 bow is much better?

One of the very few things that I miss in this game is a battle menu. I may be forgetting a little, but I don't remember any FF that did not have one. Maybe after level cap it will make more sense to make one when/if there are tiered spells.

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

AH that doesn't display prices? GTFO How am I supposed to know what something is worth ? Google it take your word for it?

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The community eventually sorts it out. Take XIV for example, you have someone selling something for 36k based on NPC/mat prices, people will undercut by 7-26k+ just to get their stuff sold quicker. This is why seeing active prices is bad only in a community who can't use a little common sense let alone courtesy when selling goods. When you start dropping things below NPC price you're just trying to screw people out of a decent profit.

If the past 12 sales says 70k you have no reason throwing it up for 17k, this way with only history shown even if you do undercut it won't display the 17k, it'll display the past sales and you just made 70k simply because you were selling under someone else and yours sold faster.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Now if the dev team make HNM with long term goals with elite drops, I think that will only lead to disaster because further down the line when level cap is increased there will be more suitable equipment for the new levels.

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how is that in any way disastrous? was it disastrous to XI when they raised the level cap, in spite of much of the best gear in the game being from HNM prior to that? (rhetorical question. the answer is clearly 'no')

i don't understand your logic whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

biggest thing for me would be to not treat the overworld as a teleportation hub that is to be skipped at ones lesuire.

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Agreed. I almost feel like they implemented anima to combat how difficult travel could be in XI

Since everyone -should- have their own personal chocobo, I would be okay with a complete revamp of teleporting.

I also liked the blind bidding system from XI. Undercutting and market cornering is much harder to do when you can't see active pricing.

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

AH that doesn't display prices? GTFO How am I supposed to know what something is worth ? Google it take your word for it?

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You would still have a list of what the item was sold for previously. It's not like it becomes a random guessing game.

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Originally Posted by fusional

how is that in any way disastrous? was it disastrous to XI when they raised the level cap, in spite of much of the best gear in the game being from HNM prior to that? (rhetorical question. the answer is clearly 'no')

i don't understand your logic whatsoever.

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The majority of lv75 HNM gear, and relic became obsolete in just one update. Many was dissatisfied because of this because it took months to obtain some of that. I don't know if I can elaborate that any simpler for you, but if you still don't get it, you probably have some of the symptoms for romnesia..

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Originally Posted by Andrien

The majority of lv75 HNM gear, and relic became obsolete in just one update. Many was dissatisfied because of this because it took months to obtain some of that. I don't know if I can elaborate that any simpler for you, but if you still don't get it, you probably have some of the symptoms for romnesia..

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and yet you played to level 90. so maybe explain to me again how it was so devastating ...that you and so many others kept playing anyway, because you have all of the symptoms of awful logic.

or maybe next time just try telling a story that backs up your point a little better.

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Originally Posted by fusional

and yet you played to level 90. so maybe explain to me again how it was so devastating ...that you and so many others kept playing anyway, because you have all of the symptoms of awful logic.

or maybe next time just try telling a story that backs up your point a little better.

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To further simplify things, I didn't take part in HNM camping, I wasn't that group of people that complain and rage quit. Did you read my original post? oops you most likely forgot..As I said you have the symptoms. There is a cure for that you know.

listen, swifty. let me explain something to you very simply and very slowly. in your post you never mentioned anything about HNM people complaining or quitting or being devastated by the level cap increase. you went from "i played to level 90 and did blah blah" to "i didn't do HNM because it was frustrating" to "HNM with good drops would be disastrous due to a level cap increase"

maybe your brain doesn't function correctly but any person with even the slightest ability to puke out a remotely well-reasoned argument would see that you just jumped around to three unrelated topics in some meandering tangential attempt to flail your way to... some... point. a point which doesn't make sense.

according to you- having HNM with good drops would destroy the game. and yet you played it to 90, and apparently other people stuck with it even longer than that- because the game isn't destroyed just yet. so apparently having HNM drop gear didn't destroy the game.

so explain to me how it would destroy this game, and what evidence you're basing this upon. because your logic is bad and your evidence doesn't prove anything.

so try again.

I think a summoning system with HNM's could be fun - so people can watch but there is no silly "stealing" going on (since summoning group gets claim and then is locked out afterwards).

Or just make them more like semi-schedule server events - would be difficult to balance dynamically though without a sense of guaranteed win with attrition.

Anything more community driven without disrupting the challenge would be preferred.

I'd hope it tries to straddle the line between the old and the new without it completely going 'theme park'

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Originally Posted by Reyko

Sorry dont mean to come off like an ass but FFXI is not running. at least not the game most of us fell in love with. this is my most hated statement i see on these forums. believe me i would play it again if that were the case.

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The game is still running. Whether you like it or not in its current state is a matter of opinion. The only things that have truly changed wildly are the speed of leveling and the currently popular endgame events. The "old" XI is a relic of the past that should stay in the past. Spending multiple hours a day doing absolutely nothing while you wait for an HNM to pop, events that take several hours to complete, and multi-day reentry timers are all things I don't miss one single bit. Slow leveling works the first time you play but after that, most people just want to get it over with. You're totally welcome to disagree with these points, as it isn't really important for the crux of the point I'm trying to make.

Regardless of how much you love XI or loved it sometime in the past, this game is not and should not try to be just like the current or the past XI. It should try to be like its own thing- naturally some ideas may be borrowed from other games here and there, to strengthen the "FF feel" - but there is no point in even making a new game if it's not really going to be any different from the only other game in its category.

Every MMO changes over time, and everyone has nostalgia they'd like to live again- This is why it's so difficult to accept change- but if XI or XIV were frozen in that ideal state that everyone loved, they would have eventually gotten bored with that. If you don't change things and introduce new stuff, any MMO will die a slow death.

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Originally Posted by fusional

listen, swifty. let me explain something to you very simply and very slowly. in your post you never mentioned anything about HNM people complaining or quitting or being devastated by the level cap increase. you went from "i played to level 90 and did blah blah" to "i didn't do HNM because it was frustrating" to "HNM with good drops would be disastrous due to a level cap increase"

maybe your brain doesn't function correctly but any person with even the slightest ability to puke out a remotely well-reasoned argument would see that you just jumped around to three unrelated topics in some meandering tangential attempt to flail your way to... some... point. a point which doesn't make sense.

according to you- having HNM with good drops would destroy the game. and yet you played it to 90, and apparently other people stuck with it even longer than that- because the game isn't destroyed just yet. so apparently having HNM drop gear didn't destroy the game.

so explain to me how it would destroy this game, and what evidence you're basing this upon. because your logic is bad and your evidence doesn't prove anything.

so try again.

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I don't think you can comprehend what you read.

Let me further break it down with numbers, because it seems you also lack common sense along with your memory loss.

1. Read my post again slowly word for word.
2. I never said HNM should not have elite drops.
3. People spend months camping a certain item then all of a sudden it became obsolete in one patch.
4. Putting in HNM with elite drops at max lv50 pose a high chance of people complaining when the Level cap goes up higher in the future because there will be better gears, and weapons suited for those new levels.
5. If SE were to do this right now, history has a good chance of repeating itself.
6. SE should wait longer before implementing elite gear drops from HNM.

I put all that in 3 easy to read paragraph explaining the entire situation from my point of view because I've seen HNM LS fall because of this. I'm thinking about those individual that like to spend hours and months camping, and then to have their most prized gear obsolete was enough to make them quit. I don't want that to happen again.

Now I'm no medical doctor but seriously, get a thermometer, check your temperature..

I didn't like the lvl cap cause it took for it to be implemented, after i had to do more work for new gear i just didn't wanna do it again after chasing gear for my pld for 7 years,

so there shouldn't be HNM with elite drops at level 50, but elite gear like darklight and relic is okay? elite triple/quad melds are ok? people with those pieces will somehow be less upset about a level cap raise than people who got their gear from HNM?

again, your logic doesn't compute. you really didn't think this through, did you?

so i guess there just shouldn't be any elite gear in the game, period, so nobody will have anything to bitch about when the level cap is raised in a year or three?

help me understand, aristotle.

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Originally Posted by fusional

so there shouldn't be HNM with elite drops at level 50, but elite gear like darklight and relic is okay? elite triple/quad melds are ok? people with those pieces will somehow be less upset about a level cap raise than people who got their gear from HNM?

again, your logic doesn't compute. you really didn't think this through, did you?

so i guess there just shouldn't be any elite gear in the game, period, so nobody will have anything to bitch about when the level cap is raised in a year or three?

help me understand, aristotle.

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Relic weapon will be upgradable. Darklight gear is something for us players to pass the time until ARR.
http://images.cheezburger.com/comple...99891015dc.gif