Bullying on FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Ricky

Wow you guys are wimps, you can blacklist to avoid 4 out of 5 of your problems, and if someone MPK you, you can just do it right back or leave the area and try whatever you were doing at a later time

If someone seriously does all that stuff to you, you did something to deserve it most likely... I have played online games for like 12 years and I have never experienced people doing such crazy things

and responding to trolls counts as "something to deserve it" imo

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Maybe people like me aren't a**holes and don't like to MPK people? Some people take pride in being an honest player and don't enjoy "revenge" tactics.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

Have you heard of a social networking internet website called Facebook? It's hardly anonymous, but that doesn't stop people from using it as a tool to harass and bully people.

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I'd be interested to see just how close the two parties ("victim" and "bully") actually come to physically interacting with one another. I've read a handful of case studies involving high school students but these stand out as, well, outliers. Also, please understand that I am using the term "victim" and "bully" very loosely. In 3 out of 4 studies I've found that both parties are actually "bullies" and that Facebook has only acted as an alternative medium for the behavior.

In short, the likelihood of physical repercussion is very slim from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Presbytier

This what Real Id would prevent. If someone had to face the idea that everyone could see the kind of person they are online they would fall back on the same social niceties that enables us as a society to get along. Now I know some worry about the security risks involved, but there are good solutions to that as well.
http://www.nist.gov/nstic/

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No, this sort of thing is dangerous. Let me put it like this; if it's NOT dangerous to do, why would it be a safeguard against bullying?

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Originally Posted by Yves

In short, the likelihood of physical repercussion is very slim from what I've seen.

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From what I've seen someone with bad intentions finding your personal information online leading to action is 100%. But I guess I would be biased.

I am only speaking up about this because it is dangerous territory and there are MUCH safer methods than plastering your personal info online. GM action is all it takes.

i say lets give the power to decide to the corporations that run our games, i mean it's not like they don't have our best interests and not do anything to get the most money output from it. then the sheeples can be happy.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

No, this sort of thing is dangerous. Let me put it like this; if it's NOT dangerous to do, why would it be a safeguard against bullying?



From what I've seen someone with bad intentions finding your personal information online leading to action is 100%. But I guess I would be biased.

I am only speaking up about this because it is dangerous territory and there are MUCH safer methods than plastering your personal info online. GM action is all it takes.

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Unfortunately by that logic we should always use pseudonyms in everything we do in life do to the risk of one nutcase using that information nefariously. In these conversations what we must realize is the not only will the victims name be known, but so would the bullier. i firmly believe that removing the wall of anonymity would force people to actually think about their actions in a real life consequential matter.

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Originally Posted by Presbytier

Unfortunately by that logic we should always use pseudonyms in everything we do in life do to the risk of one nutcase using that information nefariously. In these conversations what we must realize is the not only will the victims name be known, but so would the bullier. i firmly believe that removing the wall of anonymity would force people to actually think about their actions in a real life consequential matter.

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And I disagree. Just look at Facebook. Literally put your real life image on it yet people still act the same. It only causes safety issues and just because "it doesn't happen a lot" doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

There is a difference between real life situations and plastering your info online for any nutcase to see.

Cyber bullying is a bullshit politician term used to enact laws against internet free speech. I'm sad you fell prey to their propaganda. Be a bigger person and just ignore it. It can't hurt you if you don't let it because YOU are the one in control of YOUR emotions.

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Originally Posted by Presbytier

Unfortunately by that logic we should always use pseudonyms in everything we do in life do to the risk of one nutcase using that information nefariously. In these conversations what we must realize is the not only will the victims name be known, but so would the bullier. i firmly believe that removing the wall of anonymity would force people to actually think about their actions in a real life consequential matter.

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I don't think that she is saying this. What I think Amy is trying to say is that there are safer alternatives then placing information into a public pool. She's right, too - there are alternatives. This is why police encounters in the United States are kept fairly private. True, some information is available via public records (states differ) but it isn't as vast and detailed as people suspect.

Here's a better way of looking at her argument:

There are safer alternatives than full public disclosure
Full disclosure is an option but public disclosure puts individuals at risk
This risk is unnecessary due to alternatives
Therefore, alternatives ought to be utilized

the rule to internet bullies is to not acknowledge they exist, ignore them and they will go away. the rule to physical bullies, is to beat the ever loving sh*t out of them by any means necessary. the general rule against both types of bullies is to show them how very little and insignificant a spec they are on the arse of the world.

if more of the physical aspect were to occur, there would be a lot less bullies in the world. cyber or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Yves

I don't think that she is saying this. What I think Amy is trying to say is that there are safer alternatives then placing information into a public pool. She's right, too - there are alternatives. This is why police encounters in the United States are kept fairly private. True, some information is available via public records (states differ) but it isn't as vast and detailed as people suspect.

Here's a better way of looking at her argument:

There are safer alternatives than full public disclosure
Full disclosure is an option but public disclosure puts individuals at risk
This risk is unnecessary due to alternatives
Therefore, alternatives ought to be utilized

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Nailed it on the dot, thank you for getting it.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

Cyber bullying is a bullshit politician term used to enact laws against internet free speech. I'm sad you fell prey to their propaganda. Be a bigger person and just ignore it. It can't hurt you if you don't let it because YOU are the one in control of YOUR emotions.

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Which free speech laws are you referencing? If you're a U.S. Citizen I highly suggest that you take a gander at our founding documents and some of the hearings that have occurred.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Which free speech laws are you referencing? If you're a U.S. Citizen I highly suggest that you take a gander at our founding documents and some of the hearings that have occurred.

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Oh yes, they pay sooo much attention to that don't they. rofl.

I want to add here that people understand also that when someone runs around and /laughs at you or something that in the silent public eye they look like an ass and they loose credibility. The attacker always looses in the eye of public opinion next to the peacemaker.

I'd be so lucky to have ppl I don't like do this to me.. it'd give me enormous cache.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Which free speech laws are you referencing? If you're a U.S. Citizen I highly suggest that you take a gander at our founding documents and some of the hearings that have occurred.

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i always have a laugh at folks who take the whole free speech out of context, however he is quite correct about the Anti-CyberBullie movement trying to impose unfair and unjustified censorship/tracking on the internet, even the MPAA/RIAA have started using it as a benefit to censorship/tracking and blacklisting of the internet.

One word to families in tears over there kids taking there own life, the bullies didn't do it. if anything the parents are to blame even more for lack of involvement in there child's day to day life.

Megan Meier
School Student from Japan (unnamed for legal reasons)
Jamey Rodemeyer

As players of an online game I can safely assume that most of us are above the age of 18.

We're old enough, ugly enough, and wise enough to know that bullying is a sad way to justify an existence. I for one do not expect GMs to come riding from the distance to stop someone from harassing another player, but you can be sure that I step in and tell that person off if they do. And no I'm not trying to be a 'hero', but merely indicating that we have as much of an ability as the bully to stop them from incurring harm to another person, because they're not just characters in a game; there is another human being sitting at their computer trying to enjoy their time.

*Expletive Removed* bullies...

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Originally Posted by Jadi

Oh yes, they pay sooo much attention to that don't they. rofl.

I want to add here that people understand also that when someone runs around and /laughs at you or something that in the silent public eye they look like an ass and they loose credibility. The attacker always looses in the eye of public opinion next to the peacemaker.

I'd be so lucky to have ppl I don't like do this to me.. it'd give me enormous cache.

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1. What does the first line mean? What are you trying to imply? I'm asking because it is unclear.
2. No, this is incorrect. You are talking about stigma and it is a very real sociological concept. Take the McCarthy Trials, for example. Many of those accused of communism never recovered despite the fact that they were clearly innocent. But, because the accusation was made and repeated, people were flagged in society as "red."

FFXI is another fantastic example of stigma. Was the game horrid at launch? Yup. Did it suck for another 8 months? Sure did. But was the game playable and even fairly enjoyable at the time that 1.23a hit? For the most part, yeah. But did we have people frequently posting that the game was "unplayable" and referencing the old market wards? Yeah, we did despite the fact that many of the qualms had been remedied. In fact, there is a post on here from just the other day that committed this!

The point is that stigma is a real thing and once someone is "branded" and the public accepts it the "brand" becomes real. This is what bullying does - it creates a stigma.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

i always have a laugh at folks who take the whole free speech out of context, however he is quite correct about the Anti-CyberBullie movement trying to impose unfair and unjustified censorship/tracking on the internet, even the MPAA/RIAA have started using it as a benefit to censorship/tracking and blacklisting of the internet.

One word to families in tears over there kids taking there own life, the bullies didn't do it. if anything the parents are to blame even more for lack of involvement in there child's day to day life.

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Oh totally agree on the last point. Suicide isn't usually driven by just bullying - there are many perpetuating circumstances that go along with it. And yes, Amendment I has been leveraged unscrupulously many times. Thankfully, the Supreme Court has called shenanigans on it.

What Jadi is trying to is accidental inference - he is misapplying a general rule to a specific case when the rule is not applicable. This is really common with freedom of speech and the right to bear arms and it is an informal fallacy. While it may be emotionally convincing (depending on viewpoint) it is entirely uncogent.

Also, sorry for spam posting but it's a pain to cut and paste quotes ><

It's also important to keep in mind that there will always be a disconnect if you can't see and hear a person face to face. Especially if you've never met them in real life.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

Wow you guys are wimps, you can blacklist to avoid 4 out of 5 of your problems, and if someone MPK you, you can just do it right back or leave the area and try whatever you were doing at a later time

If someone seriously does all that stuff to you, you did something to deserve it most likely... I have played online games for like 12 years and I have never experienced people doing such crazy things

and responding to trolls counts as "something to deserve it" imo

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12 years eh? I call BS

But that's a topic for another duiscussion.

Let's talk about bullying in regards to this game (FFXIV in case you forgot)

Let's use an example:

So your in a pt, and you're the puller
You accidentally pull too many mobs, and one of the members gets upset and decides to bully you
He calls you names, makes fun of you etc etc

following me so far ?

He then decides to go a step further

do you know where I'm going with this?

He then tells his friends and linkshell members that you are a terrible puller and shouldn't be invited to parties ever

all without yourknowledge of course
do you know where I'm going with this?

Some Bully has just trashed your reputation, all because it makes him feel better/important/usefull
This may or may not cause problems for you the next time you are looking for a party

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Originally Posted by heit

Megan Meier
School Student from Japan (unnamed for legal reasons)
Jamey Rodemeyer

As players of an online game I can safely assume that most of us are above the age of 18.

We're old enough, ugly enough, and wise enough to know that bullying is a sad way to justify an existence. I for one do not expect GMs to come riding from the distance to stop someone from harassing another player, but you can be sure that I step in and tell that person off if they do. And no I'm not trying to be a 'hero', but merely indicating that we have as much of an ability as the bully to stop them from incurring harm to another person, because they're not just characters in a game; there is another human being sitting at their computer trying to enjoy their time.

*Expletive Removed* bullies...

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Good Job! If everyone would be like you , we wouldn't suffer from Cyber Bullies but sad part is that we got too many people that will actually join them. Like the spreading rumors part. We got more people that like gossips and believes in them than people actually putting themselves on the victim's position for once. Like some here are actually saying ignore or BList them. what about when they do more than just talking stuff to you directly or /tells. Like using their virtual body to taunt you or MPK you? What about rumors? Don't you know that peer pressure exists in this game too like if we were kids? Also FFXIV is sometimes based on reputation as well. How you feel if someone out there is accusing you of things, true or not true, doesn't matter at this point. How would you feel that half the server is talking about it? and as the telephone chain game, the main point of the rumors would change at then end of the line. People add, over exaggerate and take stuff out. We are smart and old enough to know that there is a type of harassment that doesn't neccesarily involved physical actions. It is as important as the physical one. People are too selfish sometimes to put theselves on the other side's position.

I just have to say this:
Love this song and we should liste to it form time to time

NICKELBACK - IF EVERYONE CARED LYRICS

"If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died"

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Originally Posted by Yves

1. What does the first line mean? What are you trying to imply? I'm asking because it is unclear.
2. No, this is incorrect. You are talking about stigma and it is a very real sociological concept. Take the McCarthy Trials, for example. Many of those accused of communism never recovered despite the fact that they were clearly innocent. But, because the accusation was made and repeated, people were flagged in society as "red."

FFXI is another fantastic example of stigma. Was the game horrid at launch? Yup. Did it suck for another 8 months? Sure did. But was the game playable and even fairly enjoyable at the time that 1.23a hit? For the most part, yeah. But did we have people frequently posting that the game was "unplayable" and referencing the old market wards? Yeah, we did despite the fact that many of the qualms had been remedied. In fact, there is a post on here from just the other day that committed this!

The point is that stigma is a real thing and once someone is "branded" and the public accepts it the "brand" becomes real. This is what bullying does - it creates a stigma.

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If you think the government gives one shit about the constitution you are sorely mistaken. 90% of what the federal government does is unconstitutional.

"Stigma".. lol bullshit.. I've been in the public eye before in my life more than once and I've seen the worst said about me. I speak from experience.. My reaction to hate and threats has always been the opposite of what the attackers intend and it's always blown up in their face. People ask me about this shit privately from time to time.. They say "such and such says this, whats the deal?" I shrug and say, thats what they say isn't it. :-) ..well ya know I can't do much about what they say... but here is what really went down.. as far as I know I've never had anyone not believe me.. ppl seem to know the truth when they hear it.

Slanderous attacks don't work because people don't reciprocate or enjoy negativity by in large.. if you have positive responses to them then it turns around on people like a mirror. Take my word for it. You don't need to fear this kind of thing because it does more harm to the person initiating it. Be confident and know yourself and and you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

Some Bully has just trashed your reputation, all because it makes him feel better/important/usefull
This may or may not cause problems for you the next time you are looking for a party

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They can't trash your reputation.. because your reputation comes from your own actions. This is just fear getting to you.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

lol, PUGs? no wonder you cant get anything done


om nomnom

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Huggin aren't you getting a little bit aggressive?? This is the exact opposite of the why of my post. No need to get this way >.>

Jadi, it is very obvious that you are one person that doesn't understand the point of someone been harrased by another human being. You can't ingore it that easily. If you are in control of your emotions , I don't what to see you crying if somehting really bad happens to you. Lose your job, someone , get into a figh, a neighbor spreading really messed up rumors about you and the whole neighboorhood looking down on you. You are in contol of you emotions. Very reasonable. If everyone actually thought like you, I think we wouldn't have bullies but again many listens to them and follows them. Can you control how they make you feel?

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Originally Posted by Aethelinda

Huggin aren't you getting a little bit aggressive?? This is the exact opposite of the why of my post. No need to get this way >.>

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Sorry, i was just trying to point out that joining pick up groups will expose them to bullies and not let them get anything done. a small linkshell or group of friends is way better to get stuff done. no one is going to get anywhere with pick up groups. not sure what you think was aggressive about it. but the fact that i cant see the aggression probably comes from me being abused by authority figures as a child.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

Sorry, i was just trying to point out that joining pick up groups will expose them to bullies and not let them get anything done. a small linkshell or group of friends is way better to get stuff done. no one is going to get anywhere with pick up groups. not sure what you think was aggressive about it. but the fact that i cant see the aggression probably comes from me being abused by authority figures as a child.

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You def got a point Huggin. Agree. I experienced that myself.

in all seriousness, the whole idea of bullying being touted by the mainstream medium outlets is just ridiculous. and i am disappointed in mankind for willfully eating up the brainwash. this whole attitude toward bullying does not help, it only makes things worse, and we do have scientific studies to prove that, just do a quick search for "anti bullying programs make bullying worse."
You guys are always on a witch hunt, funny thing is, you are also the type to condemn witch hunts that were actually witch hunts.
think for yourselves, you do not need to agree with something just because oprah said you should.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

in all seriousness, the whole idea of bullying being touted by the mainstream medium outlets is just ridiculous. and i am disappointed in mankind for willfully eating up the brainwash. this whole attitude toward bullying does not help, it only makes things worse, and we do have scientific studies to prove that, just do a quick search for "anti bullying programs make bullying worse."
You guys are always on a witch hunt, funny thing is, you are also the type to condemn witch hunts that were actually witch hunts.
think for yourselves, you do not need to agree with something just because oprah said you should.

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True but here is the thing Huggin. Is not a movement or at least not trying to create one. what I want is to people listen that we got some on the game and sadly they are making the time play of some miserable. By raising awareness is not about going against them but to not feed the troll. Like for example, when someone makes up a story about you and half the server believes it? is really messed up. If we all act together and really judge by ourselves everything would be fine. But many choose to listen to them and believe them. We can ignore them but what about the rest, would they do it? Also about in an MPK situation? Really hard to deal with. You will have to stop , then come back for a while to see if he or she is gone. Why? you pay for this game, why would you let someone ruined your gaming time, you happy moment time? This is why I'm posting. We need to find a better alternative to deal with these problem. Going against them or becoming them is no the solution and def promotes even more bullying. Agree 100%

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Originally Posted by Huginn

i am disappointed in mankind for willfully eating up the brainwash.

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I hear ya.

Yes, I can control my emotions, we all can, I'm not special or super human. I just learned something others did not.

Ah.. Oct is National Bullying Prevention Awareness Month.. you guys are victims of an ad campaign I think.. whopping you into a fervor about this topic I thinks. Was this on Facebook?

Call me suspicious that this just suddenly appears up here coinciding with the stupid month.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

Yes, I can control my emotions, we all can, I'm not special or super human. I just learned something others did not.

Ah.. Oct is National Bullying Prevention Awareness Month.. you guys are victims of an ad campaign I think.. whopping you into a fervor about this topic I thinks. Was this on Facebook?

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mmm.. Jaid, I posted this because what I witness las night. Did you ctually read it? I didn't know about Oct and def not the media working subliminal messages on me because I don't get involved with the media. At least where I live, never heard of it. However then it was a good moment to post it. Good opportunity!

And about the emotions k, I'm very proud of you. Not many are as strong as you and of that I'm aware of so I will speak up for those who can't. Glad I don't have to worry about you. You can help out by maybe giving more tips on how to do it. It will be welcome

I actually didn't know that was a thing either.

Kinda intriguing Jadi. Really didn't know. But then I really don't thing it was a bad timing then. Very coincidental lol ^^

bullys online are LOL, i wish smart asses would say it to my face all you can do is ignore it.

also a reason some people go postal and kill the bully if they know who it is. the other person might be crazy so people need to watch it, who knows what can happen.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

Slanderous attacks don't work because people don't reciprocate or enjoy negativity by in large.. if you have positive responses to them then it turns around on people like a mirror. Take my word for it.

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Okay, let me explain very simply why this is incorrect.

Your inference is a very basic syllogism when ordered.

C: Slanderous attacks don't work because

P1: people don't reciprocate or enjoy negativity by in large

P2: if you have positive responses to them then it turns around on people like a mirror.

Before ordering we need to break things down. I'm not going to use symbolic logic because the forums don't support the characters.

C: Therefore (because), (slanderous attacks don't work) X
P1: Some (by in large) (people) S are ([those who] don't reciprocate or enjoy negativity) P
P2: If (you have positive responses to them)R then (it turns around on people like a mirror)M

Now that this is broken down we can order it correctly as such:

Some S are P
If R then M
Therefore, X

This is absolutely invalid. Furthermore, it is incoherent. While each premise is true (P2 is debatable but we will assume truth) the conclusion doesn't flow from the premises. Replace the variables with simple terms and you see what I mean.

Some dogs are animals
If this is a cat then it is a tabby
Therefore, dolphins can't walk.

Each premise is true but it doesn't support the conclusion. Even if we filled in the blanks with implied inferences it doesn't work.

Some people are those who do not enjoy negativity
Those who do not enjoy negativity are those who will respond to positive reactions
Thus, some people may respond to positive reactions
If stigma exists then slander cannot be nullified
If slander causes an unexpected positive reaction in people then it will render the slander impotent
Unexpected positive reactions render slander impotent
Therefore, if slander is nullified then stigma cannot exist

Here we have a fleshed out version that flows better. I'm not going to break this one down but it does.

While this flows nicely and is also valid it isn't sound. Why? Well, because you are stating that only "some" ("by in large") will follow this rule. You are admitting the possibility of an alternative response potentially exists. The only way you get this to work is if you state that all people are subject to this rule which is simply not the case.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

They can't trash your reputation.. because your reputation comes from your own actions. This is just fear getting to you.

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Your reputation is actually how others view you. If someone can alter that perception to others then it can alter your reputation.

All S are P
All P are A
Therefore, all S are A

You can argue that your actions are what drive your reputation but if you do that then you're admitting that a reputation is indeed an outside view and therefore defeating your own argument. And that leaves you arguing a definition which you cannot win.

You may wonder why I took the time to do this. The reason is really simple: your argument is entirely absurd and stating it as fact is absolutely ridiculous (the math doesn't lie) and I believe that there is some responsibility to illustrate it as such when the topic is actually relevant and may have some import. This is the kind of idiotic reasoning that actually makes people dumber.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Okay, let me explain very simply why this is incorrect.

Your inference is a very basic syllogism when ordered.

C: Slanderous attacks don't work because

P1: people don't reciprocate or enjoy negativity by in large

P2: if you have positive responses to them then it turns around on people like a mirror.

Before ordering we need to break things down. I'm not going to use symbolic logic because the forums don't support the characters.

C: Therefore (because), (slanderous attacks don't work) X
P1: Some (by in large) (people) S are ([those who] don't reciprocate or enjoy negativity) P
P2: If (you have positive responses to them)R then (it turns around on people like a mirror)M

Now that this is broken down we can order it correctly as such:

Some S are P
If R then M
Therefore, X

This is absolutely invalid. Furthermore, it is incoherent. While each premise is true (P2 is debatable but we will assume truth) the conclusion doesn't flow from the premises. Replace the variables with simple terms and you see what I mean.

Some dogs are animals
If this is a cat then it is a tabby
Therefore, dolphins can't walk.

Each premise is true but it doesn't support the conclusion. Even if we filled in the blanks with implied inferences it doesn't work.

Some people are those who do not enjoy negativity
Those who do not enjoy negativity are those who will respond to positive reactions
Thus, some people may respond to positive reactions
If stigma exists then slander cannot be nullified
If slander causes an unexpected positive reaction in people then it will render the slander impotent
Unexpected positive reactions render slander impotent
Therefore, if slander is nullified then stigma cannot exist

Here we have a fleshed out version that flows better. I'm not going to break this one down but it does.

While this flows nicely and is also valid it isn't sound. Why? Well, because you are stating that only "some" ("by in large") will follow this rule. You are admitting the possibility of an alternative response potentially exists. The only way you get this to work is if you state that all people are subject to this rule which is simply not the case.



Your reputation is actually how others view you. If someone can alter that perception to others then it can alter your reputation.

All S are P
All P are A
Therefore, all S are A

You can argue that your actions are what drive your reputation but if you do that then you're admitting that a reputation is indeed an outside view and therefore defeating your own argument. And that leaves you arguing a definition which you cannot win.

You may wonder why I took the time to do this. The reason is really simple: your argument is entirely absurd and stating it as fact is absolutely ridiculous (the math doesn't lie) and I believe that there is some responsibility to illustrate it as such when the topic is actually relevant and may have some import. This is the kind of idiotic reasoning that actually makes people dumber.

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You understand that psychiatry is not an absolute science in the same way that physics is right? This is the same with biology. Where as we can say most mammals do not have two heads, occasionally one does. This does not break the laws of biology. This is different than saying sometimes objects on earth fall at 9.80 m/s^2 but hea.. sometimes they just fly off into the corner of the room and turn into mushrooms.. So you can see where your reliance on consistency in this mater is where your argument fails.

Should be As people are attracted to S they are repulsed by the opposite of S being R.

Furthermore I don't believe someone can alter your reputation as by doing so they would affect their own, as theirs declines by talking shit yours will be restored in the eyes of others.

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Originally Posted by Jadi

You understand that psychiatry is not an absolute science in the same way that physics is right? This is the same with biology. Where as we can say most mammals do not have two heads, occasionally one does. This does not break the laws of biology. This is different than saying sometimes objects on earth fall at 9.80 m/s^2 but hea.. sometimes they just fly off into the corner of the room and turn into mushrooms.. So you can see where your reliance on consistency in this mater is where your argument fails.

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This is philosophy. More specifically Aristotle and Boole...

Seriously, man. Are you really going to try and use argumentum ad hominem? Hey, if you can discount hundreds of years of modern and traditional logic then by all means please reference our conversation and cite me as an inspiration.

Bottom line is this:

1. Your arguments are bogus (fallacious and invalid)
2. Yes, bullying is a real thing
3. Yes, it drives stigma, which is again, a fundamental concept that has been studied for centuries
4. Yes, there needs to be some form of control on the internet and in games
5. No, there are no easy answers
6. The OP has a right to raise the point

P.S. - You're again using fallacious arguments at the end of your post by using an appeal to ignorance. Sorry, couldn't resist.

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Originally Posted by Yves

This is philosophy. More specifically Aristotle and Boole...

Seriously, man. Are you really going to try and use argumentum ad hominem? Hey, if you can discount hundreds of years of modern and traditional logic then by all means please reference our conversation and cite me as an inspiration.

Bottom line is this:

1. Your arguments are bogus (fallacious and invalid)
2. Yes, bullying is a real thing
3. Yes, it drives stigma, which is again, a fundamental concept that has been studied for centuries
4. Yes, there needs to be some form of control on the internet and in games
5. No, there are no easy answers
6. The OP has a right to raise the point

P.S. - You're again using fallacious arguments at the end of your post by using an appeal to ignorance. Sorry, couldn't resist.

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I think I got ya. ;-) because your abandoning the argument.

I want to know how many people in this thread have relics, probably why they're getting bullied.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

I want to know how many people in this thread have relics, probably why they're getting bullied.

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I want to know what does that prove? That you need to have more time in your hands to be able to play and thus get respect as a human. Wow, says a lot from you. Let me assume you are under 18 and avoid some extra comments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Blacklist doesn't stop someone and his friends from following you spamming /laugh at you.
Blacklist doesn't stop someone from getting his buddies to send horribly rude things to you.
Blacklist doesn't stop someone from spreading lies or bad things about you.
Blacklist doesn't stop someone from MPKing you.
Blacklist only works when or after being bullied and even then it only stops messages and it goes far beyond that.

I've been bullied a little in this game and it's not pleasant and it generally hurts your feelings even if you do blacklist them. I think that's the part you may not be getting, the emotional part of being cyber bullied. The major fix would be just to have a GM service that actually DOES something other than delete forum posts and tell people that they are "investigating the issue" even if it was simply light punishment. Not everyone has thick skin and people do have feelings on the other side of the computer monitor. Though, some other suggestions here are completely bad and unwarranted.

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All of this sounds like a minor annoyance at best. Compared to real bullying it doesn't seem like a big deal.

When I was in highschool I saw real bullying. People physically assaulting people. Taking their money..their bus passes. Taking thier food during lunch or knocking it on the floor for no reason. Throwing stuff at them during class. Ripping their clothes or book bags for fun. Or dumping the contents of their bookbags in the trash. Breaking their belongings. All that in addition to the "emotional" stuff like name calling. All this was pre Columbine when telling the teachers didn't help much. I used to see people go through that everyday and it's not like a game where you can just log off.

You really thing someone spamming /laugh really compares to that?

Ah, this thread is depressing. Not because it's a "lost cause"or anything similar (which I think it isn't), but because I can relate to the OP.

I've been bullied in the past, I've witnessed bullying in the past, and neither has been a pleasant experience.

In my opinion, the worst thing you can do to a bully is bite back. Things just get further riled up and it gets more dramatic.
In the case of the forums, that means instead hitting the "report" button, which can be found in the bottom left hand corner of every post. I've used it a few times myself and it has always seemed to pay off better than witnessing others reach to the alternatives.