No Arrows in ARR?!

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Fact: Both the BRD and WAR have that option, BRD doesn't have the option not to use arrows.

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This defeats the earlier claim that only ARC/BRD spends gil to level. But everyone should be happy now, SE is making everything easy to play, so no one will have any worries about needing gil for anything, especially consumables.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

This defeats the earlier claim that only ARC/BRD spends gil to level. But everyone should be happy now, SE is making everything easy to play, so no one will have any worries about needing gil for anything, especially consumables.

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Well it should be "Only ARC/BRD has to spend gil to level"

inb4 auto attack punching the mob.

And yes I'm happy, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be. Assuming the arrows are the same, and that all you're losing is the constant gil cost, it's win win for everyone.

Well I guess carpenters lose, but you can still make furniture and weapons.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Archers need arrows to simply function.

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Your point? When they add Musketeer, I would fully expect the job to require ammunition, a gun is pretty much useless without bullets, and even energy weapons would need an energy source. Your argument might actually have merit if the game locked the player into one job or role, since it doesn't, your argument is invalid. (Case in point, despite my sig, I am a main job Brd, and i've never felt like my job was harder or more expensive than say a mnk or pld, which I also play.)

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It wasn't harder, but it was more expensive.

Ammo shouldn't be a concern when leveling a job. It puts off new players and is a constant gil drain.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Your point? When they add Musketeer, I would fully expect the job to require ammunition, a gun is pretty much useless without bullets, and even energy weapons would need an energy source. Your argument might actually have merit if the game locked the player into one job or role, since it doesn't, your argument is invalid. (Case in point, despite my sig, I am a main job Brd, and i've never felt like my job was harder or more expensive than say a mnk or pld, which I also play.)

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Then get ready to be disappointed. Likely they'll have guns as weapons and no need to buy ammunition.

This isn't to say ARCs wont use arrows and MSKs wont use bullets in ARR. You just won't have to buy/equip them.

Not all games with guns require you to purchase ammunition. It's part of playing a virtual game to not have to worry about EVERY aspect of reality.

It was done in FFXII. You bought quivers.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Then get ready to be disappointed. Likely they'll have guns as weapons and no need to buy ammunition.

This isn't to say ARCs wont use arrows and MSKs wont use bullets in ARR. You just won't have to buy/equip them.

Not all games with guns require you to purchase ammunition. It's part of playing a virtual game to not have to worry about EVERY aspect of reality.

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Basically this. It is a fantasy game and stuff doesn't have to be realistic. When they took away arrows and bullets in WoW nobody complained, they just magically shoot their ammo. People were happy they didn't have to keep buying arrows and bullets on the AH.

To the same extent carrying 5000 arrows at one time isn't realistic either.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

To the same extent carrying 5000 arrows at one time isn't realistic either.

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Neither is carrying well over 9,999 different kinds of crystals, yet we are.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Neither is carrying well over 9,999 different kinds of crystals, yet we are.

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Sometimes I actually worry that you have the most posts on these forums.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Neither is carrying well over 9,999 different kinds of crystals, yet we are.

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The point is people arguing its not realistic for Bows or Guns not to use ammo, but there's tons of stuff in the game that isn't realistic so in the end it doesn't really matter.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Basically this. It is a fantasy game and stuff doesn't have to be realistic. When they took away arrows and bullets in WoW nobody complained, they just magically shoot their ammo. People were happy they didn't have to keep buying arrows and bullets on the AH.

To the same extent carrying 5000 arrows at one time isn't realistic either.

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This is FFXIV, if Elexia didn't complain at every positive change something would be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

This is FFXIV, if Elexia didn't complain at every positive change something would be wrong.

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Funny, according to Zam forums I'm a "White Knight", which means praising everything SE does by forum logic.

YAY ANOTHER DOWNGRADE!

Easy mode foreveryone!~

Seriously each new info that has been comming out this past week, has been terrible....

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Originally Posted by Zumi

The point is people arguing its not realistic for Bows or Guns not to use ammo, but there's tons of stuff in the game that isn't realistic so in the end it doesn't really matter.

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Which when you look back to 2010, we had smaller "realistic" quiver sizes (12+ rather than 999) yet people were crying about inventory space, but were then content with 999 sizes along with 9,999 crystal/shard sizes due to retainers losing max stack sizes in trading.

It seems to only be an issue once SE changes something, it tends to go:

"Oh yeah now I remember I hated that!" even though you really never seen people cry for SE to make magical arrows, the most you seen were people wanting them to implement the original design of different arrow types having different implementations.

I love you too, Yoshida-san :D

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Carpenter just lost some money lol - or whoever made arrows. (unless quivers are really expensive...)

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As I said in the other thread about this, you lose arrows and gain furniture. Seems like a win for carpenters.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Then get ready to be disappointed. Likely they'll have guns as weapons and no need to buy ammunition.

This isn't to say ARCs wont use arrows and MSKs wont use bullets in ARR. You just won't have to buy/equip them.

Not all games with guns require you to purchase ammunition. It's part of playing a virtual game to not have to worry about EVERY aspect of reality.

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This. And

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Considering SE's history of never being able to properly balance cost of ammo, I don't see why this is a bad thing.

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I can't say that I have any complaints about this, but boy, look at this debate!

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Originally Posted by Rokien

YAY ANOTHER DOWNGRADE!

Easy mode foreveryone!~

Seriously each new info that has been comming out this past week, has been terrible....

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Lol...

Rokien thinks purchasing and using arrows adds depth of skill to the game.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Lol...

Rokien thinks purchasing and using arrows adds depth of skill to the game.

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Depth yes. It adds to the economy, playing the economy adds skill.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

YAY ANOTHER DOWNGRADE!

Easy mode foreveryone!~

Seriously each new info that has been comming out this past week, has been terrible....

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What's this? Rokien displeased about something? NO WAY!

On topic:

While this does tear away from realism, is this really going to make such a huge impact on people either way? For people who were selling arrows, they'll find something else to sell. For the people buying arrows, they'll have a little more change in their pocket than usual.

If anything, now ARC/BRD is on equal footing in the cost market. All jobs, including ARC/BRD, have to constantly pay out in order to min/max. However, ARC/BRD also had the additional cost of ammunition. No matter how insignificant the cost was, it was still an additional cost over other jobs. Now they pay out the same way any other job does.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

As I said in the other thread about this, you lose arrows and gain furniture. Seems like a win for carpenters.

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Assuming there's an actual market for it as we know nothing about housing. Will it increase house storage space? Is it just for looks? Will the materials be easy to get? Will it be plentiful? Can it even be placed around your house and visually show it? Will it all have unique graphics or will it just be stuff you find in cities? We don't know how much of a market there will be for it since we haven't seen it in action or even if it's similar to the Mog Houses from XI, which you did have a market on people who loved going all out on decorating that little box, we do know the lost of arrows is already a profit hit on people who leveled carpenter, that much is already 100% confirmed with this news.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Depth yes. It adds to the economy, playing the economy adds skill.

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Funny, because all I did was do leves to scrape enough money for +1 arrows and then bought them.

I guess we have very different opinions on skill.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

YAY ANOTHER DOWNGRADE!

Easy mode foreveryone!~

Seriously each new info that has been comming out this past week, has been terrible....

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If buying arrows is your idea of hard mode that's pretty funny

This is an amazing quality of life improvement in my opinion, and I will be much more likely to play my BRD knowing that I wont literally be firing off gil at the mobs with every attack. Its not like any other class/job had this inconvenience. In my opinion, if BRD has to pay for ammo, they should have the highest DPS...

If a large part of the Black Shroud is getting burnt(?) and large areas of Coerthas snowed under, I guess that explains why theres no wood to make arrows in v2 =P

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Sometimes I actually worry that you have the most posts on these forums.

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She was pointing out the hypocrisy of Zumi's statement.

You also seem to have forgotten one other important thing, many people level carpenter for ammunition, either to sell, or for thier own personal use, in addition, the arrow recipes are pretty easy to gather materials for, making them good to level on. If you get rid of them, you might as well get rid of carpenter as well, seeing as furniture would require more materials to craft, and it leaves the class with no expendable items worth crafting. (idk about you, but most of the levels I have gained in crafting have been grinding out simple to make, single-use items.)

I'm curious to see what they will have in place of the arrows. Will archers need to buy a "quiver" of sorts that essentially is unlimited arrows?

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

She was pointing out the hypocrisy of Zumi's statement.

You also seem to have forgotten one other important thing, many people level carpenter for ammunition, either to sell, or for thier own personal use, in addition, the arrow recipes are pretty easy to gather materials for, making them good to level on. If you get rid of them, you might as well get rid of carpenter as well, seeing as furniture would require more materials to craft, and it leaves the class with no expendable items worth crafting. (idk about you, but most of the levels I have gained in crafting have been grinding out simple to make, single-use items.)

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They still make bows and lances as well. CRP will be far from useless.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

She was pointing out the hypocrisy of Zumi's statement.

You also seem to have forgotten one other important thing, many people level carpenter for ammunition, either to sell, or for thier own personal use, in addition, the arrow recipes are pretty easy to gather materials for, making them good to level on. If you get rid of them, you might as well get rid of carpenter as well, seeing as furniture would require more materials to craft, and it leaves the class with no expendable items worth crafting. (idk about you, but most of the levels I have gained in crafting have been grinding out simple to make, single-use items.)

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I'm sure that if Carpenter is left in a sorry state, they'll fix it.

I'd stop acting like this is the end of the world though, I'm fine without the price gouging on arrows personally. It's not impossible that they'd add more easy to grind items for carpenter.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

If buying arrows is your idea of hard mode that's pretty funny

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No, but gaining gil, playing the economy is a lot harder than "here ya go, hand holding more!"

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

you might as well get rid of carpenter as well

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But Uni.. how will I repair my staff? :(

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I'm curious to see what they will have in place of the arrows. Will archers need to buy a "quiver" of sorts that essentially is unlimited arrows?

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I hope so. Different quivers with different arrow styles would be cool.

I still remember this:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2wrhoqh.jpg

Which never happened, but would have been cool.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

No, but gaining gil, playing the economy is a lot harder than "here ya go, hand holding more!"

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Yeah. Gaining gil is so skill based.

Really Rokien?

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I hope so. Different quivers with different arrow styles would be cool.

I still remember this:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2wrhoqh.jpg

Which never happened, but would have been cool.

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That would be a very nifty idea. I would like something similar to that.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Yeah. Gaining gil is so skill based.

Really Rokien?

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He just wants it to be 1.0 launch all over again. Please don't mind him.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

They still make bows and lances as well. CRP will be far from useless.

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A lot of carps gil came from the cobalt arrows, you'll get a bit of gil from say 20k-80k+ on a new bow/lance, but the constant sales of arrows is where a lot of money came in for many carps, especially since for LNC/DRG for example, the U/U weapons are a lot better than a lot of the crafted ones. You can argue charging for melding, but no one really charges for melds, especially with the randomness of the system.

So they won't be useless, they'll just lose a very lucaritive source of income. No one will buy low level bows if you're still leveling very quickly, also the fact you don't monster grind pretty much kills the need to constantly upgrade yourself, since quests won't require that much in terms of consistently upgrading your gear to do them if they're following the general Quest Grind style.

End-game you can argue, given the loss of Skirmish Weapons and maybe primal weapons, but much like any other class, ARC/BRD still benefits from U/U drops more so than the crafted ones, some exceptions, but for the most part, you'll see either Relic, Primal or Skirmish (Melded) bows simply due to level speeding and easy of access to the content.

I think converting arrows to being non-consumable is like saying food is non-consumable. Doesn't make sense to have infinent arrows!(1/1) So where you pulling them out of, your @$$-Box?? Will arrows go in off-hand and loose durability too?

Think that's pretty realistic and RPGish??

GG SE, you mock the integrity of RPGing everywhere and every time.

This might make arrow[s] more expensive making carpenters charge more for their craft.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

In his defense... You're spending money trying to min-max. That's perfectly normal. ARC/BRDs are spending money just to deal white damage. From Lv1, all the way to 50, and at end game.

Maybe they don't spend as much money as someone that is min-maxing but to say that they don't spend more money flat out for doing basic things is not only disingenuous, it's not true.

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Quoting myself again because it seems the idiots missed it. Shut the fuck up and stop this stupid argument already.

If the only thing that carpenter was good for was making arrows, then carpenter needs to be fixed. It's not an issue with arrows, it's an issue with the entire class.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Yeah. Gaining gil is so skill based.

Really Rokien?

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OH SORRY, forgot it was SUUUUPPPERR easy to get gil right now....

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

If the only thing that carpenter was good for was making arrows, then carpenter needs to be fixed. It's not an issue with arrows, it's an issue with the entire class.

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Leveling speeds makes the grand majority of what any DoH makes useless as you blow past it, arrows were just a large income for carpenters from people who won't spend GC seals on lower level ones or buy from the guild NPC. (excluding Cobalt and Mythril.)