The Hypocrisy of 'Sinister' (M9): Lyrics vs. Player Conduct Standards

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Originally Posted by lievaordiea

i think the issue is
why tell them? unless they ask you.

you could ask them if they want pointers. but never give unasked for 'advice'

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Because as a DPS, it's quite painful to end up in a dungeon where the tank won't turn on their stance or the healer won't Esuna, yet being forced to remain quiet the entire run because even saying "stance please" or "esuna please" will get you GM'd. It's simply too risky to say anything in either scenario (or in others where someone keeps doing something that gets everyone killed, like making a pull they can't handle or doing a mechanic improperly), because they "didn't ask for your advice" and even saying it one time will be deemed "insistent". The only other option is to leave, but I'm trying to NOT get punished, and that's what the 30 minute penalty is made for, to force you to stay regardless of how bad things are going, and praying the other person figures it out on their own.

Even when wiping repeatedly there's pretty much nothing you can say or do to explain what happened, because again, it's rude and actionable no matter what words you use or how politely you try to flower up your language. I can only assume the people who say they never get in trouble for trying to help are running with friends/FCmates/static and not randoms, so of course the chance of being reported is nil. Personally I've never been reported myself, but that's because I refuse to say anything no matter how badly things are going (I just take the leaver penalty), it's simply too dangerous to speak up pretty much anywhere or at anytime.

I highly doubt people have been banned/thrown into gaol for requesting/informing a healer to use Esuna (especially if it's to cleanse Doom), or reminding/telling a tank to turn their tank stance on.

Has the misinformation/fear mongering around "being banned for giving advice" really gotten this bad?

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Originally Posted by Cambra

It's the definition of "rules for thee, but not for me." As players, we're held to a strict, family friendly filter in our words. Also if I repeated these lyrics in Limsa Lominsa's shout chat? I'd get a violation faster than you can say "safe word."

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A lot of people watch adult content. So, is it okay that you walk up to people and use pornographic language then? No, because that would be harassment. I hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I highly doubt people have been banned/thrown into gaol for requesting/informing a healer to use Esuna (especially if it's to cleanse Doom), or reminding/telling a tank to turn their tank stance on.

Has the misinformation/fear mongering around "being banned for giving advice" really gotten this bad?

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If other people want to give advice thinking they're safe, that's up for them to decide, but I'm never taking the chance after all of the stories I've heard.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

If other people want to give advice thinking they're safe, that's up for them to decide, but I'm never taking the chance after all of the stories I've heard.

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Thing is..

People have a habit of retelling the story. The amount of times I've seen "I did nothing wrong, I only gave advice", whilst also subsequently providing a screenshot which shows they are chanting out slurs and other inflammatory remarks like they are going wholesale.

You can also see it in abundance on the forums, albeit after a different fashion... Not that I'm any better on occasion, but some people have no accountability whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Cambra

Nobody said anything about rules being stupid. If anything it was about how much I like rules and that the company isn't following their own rules.

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If you think this is new for the game, you've never actually played much of this game. Go check out some of the ARR side quests. They make very explicit sexual jokes.

this is bait

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

legit all was said was telling someone to f off

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If you genuinely can't tell the difference between your comments and why you got banned for them and why a songtext such as this is okay... I honestly don't know where to start. I'm serious. I'm out of ideas. I don't know where to begin.

dont let this thread die its hilarious

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Originally Posted by Carighan

If you genuinely can't tell the difference between your comments and why you got banned for them and why a songtext such as this is okay... I honestly don't know where to start. I'm serious. I'm out of ideas. I don't know where to begin.

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Gonna be frank but I’m pretty sure they’re a ‘character’ and not giving actual genuine opinions/viewpoints at this point. Just pushing the ‘weird edgy kid’ (as a grown ass adult) persona because it so consistently provokes reactions

Makes you wonder how many design decisions the devs have made that were informed by ‘bad faith actors / forum trolls ’…

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

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Not really beating the allegations though by refusing to have a normal conversation. Also as like a basic internet safety thing please don’t post personal information online for your own (financial) safety. Scammers will have a field day with that kind of info. Nobody needs literal physical evidence you are a human lol, insisting the point would have been enough.

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

im not human.. that just a tag and I was proofing my name for one day I will drink every drop from your veins human come to were i live Ill show u what a child of death can do when i drain every drop from you... your lucky that my cg keeps me in check most the time irl and im scared of him and his punishments but you are nothing but a dog below me ill feed upon you and my ghouls will to hell Draculaura might feed on on you to even though she a vegan vampire...

you want proof you got my address and ill show you im not some worthless human i am the daughter of death, i dont have to care about safety because there is nothing you humans can do to a daughter of death himself

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Ok but again please just don’t reveal sensitive personal information to make the point, it’s dangerous and unnecessary. Death does not want you to be scammed it wants you to be safe online (and die a natural death I guess lol). I don’t need to know your address on this video game forum about video game feedback.

And I mean maybe it doesn’t matter anymore but I mean ‘human’ as in ‘non-ai or otherwise fictitious for the purposes of deception’, not ‘someone who identifies as human’. If you determine yourself as ‘non-human’ that’s your choice (and I don’t mean facetiously either despite how it sounds).

I mean, it’s my own fault for derailing but isn’t this thread about the lyrics to the soundtrack for M9, ‘Sinister’? I still personally think they’re pretty ‘suggestive’ (for want of a better word) but not unacceptably so. And I do still wonder as to the motivations of those so vehemently against what’s effectively just a standard pop song these days. Like, don’t they sing about much worse stuff? And the game itself already has plenty of ‘crude’ / ‘suggestive’ jokes so it’s not like it’s massively out of left field

toasting in le epic bread xDD

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Originally Posted by Connor

Not really beating the allegations though by refusing to have a normal conversation. Also as like a basic internet safety thing please don’t post personal information online for your own (financial) safety. Scammers will have a field day with that kind of info. Nobody needs literal physical evidence you are a human lol, insisting the point would have been enough.

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This person has been banned multiple times from the forum already, and it's going to happen again. At least, I assume that's why they vanish for a few months and then come back with a new name.

This thread was an insane morning read, so thanks for that I guess.

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

sadly if my cg catchs me.. i wont be able to ever return to any online forum .. and i have legit admited that i have nothing to fear because the humans are wrong the rules are bs.. which pisses me off if i do get banned this time he will see the email and i wont be allowed on any online forum at all outside my little space group.. which means no online games either which is why im extra pissed if if that happans iwont be allowed to be any places that he thinks im 2 so called "immature for" which is bs and that is really unfair so no.. im not playing around with this when these hypocrtical bs rules are now putting me at risk from loosing the prvilage of being online games/forums

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You posted a photo of your legal ID to a public forum!! That's putting yourself in danger. Should you get banned again, I'm sure you'll be able to return someday when you show enough self-restraint not to do dangerous things like post your legal ID to public forums.

For now though, you reeeeeally should delete that.

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Originally Posted by Astronis

You posted a photo of your legal ID to a public forum!! That's putting yourself in danger. Should you get banned again, I'm sure you'll be able to return someday when you show enough self-restraint not to do dangerous things like post your legal ID to public forums.

For now though, you reeeeeally should delete that.

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That's either a fake ID or a true lunatic who is a dangerous person themselves.

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Originally Posted by yesnt

That's either a fake ID or a true lunatic who is a dangerous person themselves.

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They are someone showing clear signs of needing a welfare check.

TOS applies only too players.

Final Fantasy XIV is rated T for Violence, Blood, Sexual Themes, Partial Nudity, Language, and Use of Alcohol, and Tobacco.

It's upfront about it.

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Originally Posted by HammAndCheese

They are someone showing clear signs of needing a welfare check.

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Yeah, this stopped being funny a while ago. Either their caregiver is incompetent or an enabler, and given what they said about leaving their "shrink"/meds after moving in with them I'm leaning towards the latter. Either way can we please get a moderator on this? :/

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

please don't and also its a new town it takes time finding a new shrink, and if u tell a moderate he will find out i been hiding pills under my bed.. and using the under tongue trick.. I already got a lecture today.. over the id

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LMAO. Look how this thread has degenerated to this point.

What...the...hell? - Henry Townshend

https://withaterriblefate.com/wp-con...13-300x225.png

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

There's a huge difference between these things and no inconsistency whatsoever.

A song is just content.
Choice of words in public is about treating people with respect.

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too bad the player base cant actually treat each other with respect tho.... play savage and ultimate to see what i mean....also you get people on forums who get all weird honestly

this thread is banger

PS im not sorry.. really just have to say it when i deleted and I HATE YOU ALL ITS YOUR FAULT good bye

The thread of all time

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Originally Posted by NecroprincessCleo

PS im not sorry.. really just have to say it when i deleted and I HATE YOU ALL ITS YOUR FAULT good bye

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Wait before you leave....can i have your music collection :o i mean you wont need it if your gonna leave XD and your savage gear ;) and your materia, and gil, and house :D im broke help a homie out haha

sadly this thread died

This game was rated for at least 16 years old and above is it not?

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Originally Posted by Cambra

The lyrics i'm talking about are:

"Looking for pleasure"
"You groaned, yeah you did"
"Got you in my sight, baby it's my first time, I'll take it slow yeah"
"Now get down on your knees, I'm asking please"
"Release the leather"
"Don't stop"
"I'll take all I wanna, Gotta take all I wanna, Don't let me down"
"Never let me surrender"
"Now watch me grow"
"Going hard, going soft"
"Free for all, consensual, I thought I'm in the clear"
"Ready or not, bottom or top, what you got in mind?"
"A little more I'll give you more, I couldn't choose this honey"
"Under my heels, twist and turn, I don't hear a safe word"

My problem is the inconsistency.

The game's rules and the GMs are crystal clear: we have to keep things PG13 in public chat. Why? Because, as a GM told me when I got warned for calling someone "cringe," I should "assume someone could be 13." That's the standard we have to live by.

So then I log in and hear this song, with lyrics that are deliberately sexual to an extreme degree.

My question for Square Enix is simple: Are you aware your players can be 13?

If not, why tell me to assume I'm talking to a 13-year old?
If so, why make a song like this?

It's the definition of "rules for thee, but not for me." As players, we're held to a strict, family friendly filter in our words. Also if I repeated these lyrics in Limsa Lominsa's shout chat? I'd get a violation faster than you can say "safe word."

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Firstly, your reading of the lyrics is wrong. It's "in lace and leather", not "release the leather" (lol).

Secondly, these are all tongue-in-cheek, heavily veiled references to S&M. You understand the references, but that's because you're an adult. The teenagers who play this game are not going to get these references, and even if they do, that's why the ESRB rating is PG-13. It means "Parental Guidance, 13 and up." These references all fall comfortably within the PG-13 guidelines, and don't even try to say this is hypocritical. Open ERP is NOT the same thing as a veiled reference to S&M. Square Enix will handle this reference more carefully than you will. Just keep it out of /say chat.

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Originally Posted by soymalklatte

Firstly, your reading of the lyrics is wrong. It's "in lace and leather", not "release the leather" (lol).

Secondly, these are all tongue-in-cheek, heavily veiled references to S&M. You understand the references, but that's because you're an adult. The teenagers who play this game are not going to get these references, and even if they do, that's why the ESRB rating is PG-13. It means "Parental Guidance, 13 and up." These references all fall comfortably within the PG-13 guidelines, and don't even try to say this is hypocritical. Open ERP is NOT the same thing as a veiled reference to S&M. Square Enix will handle this reference more carefully than you will. Just keep it out of /say chat.

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What about ARR quests and all those cheeky sexy things that they wrote for npcs to say? Are those "just in your head thing, only adults understand" ?? How many quests in ARR are named after sex jokes? Side quests where creeps watch miqote girls from afar hidden as they bath? That's not offensive? But it's offensive when someone says "cringe" word kek. Surely teenagers won't understand the name of quest "once you go black..." and so on.

i think we should remove all weapons from the game. tools for killing are no good!

after that we can move to the traumatizing 'sexual' stuff.

nah the song is banger keep it

Of all the things to be upset about... wowzers. Anyway, banger raid tier.

Might as well ban the beehive and entirely remove that from the game, further to that THAT one specific emote that EVERYONE wants? Yeah. That too. No fun for you.

Now I'm all for accurate ratings and such but at the end of the day you have to remember who the majority players are and who pays the subs, generally working adults who can afford this crap.

You also seem to forget that more often than not, children who WANT to involve themselves in this absolutely will and they will lie about it. Doesn't make it right, but it's the unfortunate truth.

Don't tell OP about the female NPCs in Sastasha.

I love all these people throwing "PG-13! PG-13!" when this isn't even a Hollywood movie, it's a freaking videogame.
I've heard and seen way worse in PG-13 movies than the tame af lyrics of Sinister.

To quote someone from a post years ago: (Emphasis my own)

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The ESRB rating is T for Teen. The description associated with that rating, as described on the ESRB site itself includes:
Blood
Language
Sexual Themes
Use of Alcohol
Violence

The game is not rated E10+ or E, which are the appropriate ratings for children.

The Japanese rating is "Cero C", which is 15+.

The general European rating is "PEGI 16", which is 16+.

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If they were really trying to skirt the lines of their ratings, then they wouldn't have bleeped out the f-bomb during "Not Afraid" from M7/AAC CW M3.

Honestly, spare us all the pearl-clutching and puritanical nonsense. Like other people have pointed out, there was probably more to the story as to why you got reported aside from calling someone "cringe."
If you can't talk to people respectfully, then the Mordian Gaol is calling for you, simple as that.