2.0 Grass: please change!

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Originally Posted by Punainen

So let me get this straight... You win arguments by having a God-complex, and attempting to belittle the intelligence of the competition. Noooot exactly a way to win against people who ACTUALLY think for themselves. You've spent too much time debating against children. Welcome to the bigleagues, where 'hinting' that you think I'm stupid wont cover the fact that you can't carry your argument on real merits.

Come back when you can actually make a competent argument as to why, after complaining about the copy-paste environment, you think they should make all the plantlife look identical, all be the same color, and magically rotate; and should waste countless hours UNDOING what they've already done to 'fix' an issue that no one ever complained about until you just now.

GRASS will not spell the life or death of this game. Ever.


Edit: Also there was absolutely nothing wrong with my 'phrasing'. Try actually knowing how to construct a proper sentence and use words in their proper context before you attempt to lord over me with your 'superior intellect'. For that matter you may as well just stop trying if you don't know how; as a flamboyant sentence structure and eloquent (misused) phrasing doesn't actually convince me that I'm being outwitted.

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Small minded =/= stupid

He never pointed out his superior intellect. For someone who is apparently in the "big leagues" of internet debates (lol) you seem a bit behind.

They haven't done any resolution comparisons yet so i'm not going to call foul. I personally find those ground textures to be really bad. They don't need to be perfect and I probably will deal with them but if that really is what I have to deal with on high settings i'm not impressed.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Small minded =/= stupid

He never pointed out his superior intellect. For someone who is apparently in the "big leagues" of internet debates (lol) you seem a bit behind.

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Apparently you missed all of his other comments which were implying I was stupid and didn't know how to read or understand what he was saying. This isn't too hard, so try to keep up, big guy.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I mean, it's really stupid to think that SE has a high budget and specialists who know how to code better than an amateur.

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Yeah, its so stupid to think that they shouldn't spend lots of money and many hours redrawing, rendering, and coding GRASS at the behest of ONE dude who just can't stand that they didn't make a marked improvement on the GRASS from 1.0. 'Cause y'know...its not like SE actually wants to get the game made any time soon, or want to leave themselves any PROFIT to be had, and they definitely should cater to every single whim or every manchild who doesn't know how to deal with anything less than lifelike plant-life. And its so stupid that anyone could fail to comprehend how important and vital an issue like GRASS is.

If you want to see realistic grass, go outside.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Okay I just have to laugh at this.. hahahahahaha,

Okay Neptune, if Crappy grass is what it takes to help the frame rate etc.. I gladly will take the crappy grass :p.

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No way man! Grass is the most important part of the game!! If they don't make fully realtime 3D rendered grass, this game will FAIL!!! Every tiny detail down to the grains of sand on the beaches of Limsa are of vital importance!! We don't need content, we need better grass!

Forget how beautiful the trees and the shadows look! Forget about the new genders, better battle mechanics, and improved UI! Its all about the grass, man! THE GRASS!!!!

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Apparently you missed all of his other comments which were implying I was stupid and didn't know how to read or understand what he was saying. This isn't too hard, so try to keep up, big guy.

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Hypocrisy, thy name is Punainen.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Yeah, its so stupid to think that they shouldn't spend lots of money and many hours redrawing, rendering, and coding GRASS at the behest of ONE dude who just can't stand that they didn't make a marked improvement on the GRASS from 1.0. 'Cause y'know...its not like SE actually wants to get the game made any time soon, or want to leave themselves any PROFIT to be had, and they definitely should cater to every single whim or every manchild who doesn't know how to deal with anything less than lifelike plant-life. And its so stupid that anyone could fail to comprehend how important and vital an issue like GRASS is.

If you want to see realistic grass, go outside.

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A general improvement of textures will do.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Hypocrisy, thy name is Punainen.

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Haha, I like how the point I was making completely flew over your head just because I was implying you were stupid. I know it can be hard to connect the dots, sometimes. Just keep trying, you'll get there someday.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

A general improvement of textures will do.

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Yes, give me lagging and low framerates! I WANT BETTER GRASS!!

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Haha, I like how the point I was making completely flew over your head just because I was implying you were stupid. I know it can be hard to connect the dots, sometimes. Just keep trying, you'll get there someday.

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You're still doing it. The exact thing you complained about, you're doing. In fact I would say more so. Are you in the minor leagues now? Is that how internet debating rankings work?

From the look of the presentation the grass looks good in motion, its just the screenshot which makes it look ugly

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Yes, give me lagging and low framerates! I WANT BETTER GRASS!!

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Yeah, because every game with better textures lags. It's completely impossible to have good textures and no lag. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

You're still doing it. The exact thing you complained about, you're doing. In fact I would say more so. Are you in the minor leagues now? Is that how internet debating rankings work?

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Look, you clearly have NO idea what I was saying, so... Just learn to accept that there's just some things you can't understand, okay?

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

Yeah, because every game with better textures lags. It's completely impossible to have good textures and no lag. ;)

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MMOs? Actually, yeah. We have good textures in 1.0...hence the lag and poor framerates. On offline games, textures are fine, because the system doesn't have the extra workloads that MMOs have.

Soooo.... How about that grass?

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Originally Posted by Wyyote

Soooo.... How about that grass?

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IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE REAL GRASS!!

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Look, you clearly have NO idea what I was saying, so... Just learn to accept that there's just some things you can't understand, okay?

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Apparently you missed all of his other comments

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I missed his other comments (I didn't).

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Originally Posted by Punainen

which were implying I was stupid and didn't know how to read or understand what he was saying.

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He wasn't (you are.)

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Originally Posted by Punainen

This isn't too hard, so try to keep up, big guy.

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You're doing the same thing that you're condemning him for, which turned this post:

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Originally Posted by Punainen

So let me get this straight... You win arguments by having a God-complex, and attempting to belittle the intelligence of the competition. Noooot exactly a way to win against people who ACTUALLY think for themselves. You've spent too much time debating against children. Welcome to the bigleagues, where 'hinting' that you think I'm stupid wont cover the fact that you can't carry your argument on real merits.

Come back when you can actually make a competent argument as to why, after complaining about the copy-paste environment, you think they should make all the plantlife look identical, all be the same color, and magically rotate; and should waste countless hours UNDOING what they've already done to 'fix' an issue that no one ever complained about until you just now.

GRASS will not spell the life or death of this game. Ever.


Edit: Also there was absolutely nothing wrong with my 'phrasing'. Try actually knowing how to construct a proper sentence and use words in their proper context before you attempt to lord over me with your 'superior intellect'. For that matter you may as well just stop trying if you don't know how; as a flamboyant sentence structure and eloquent (misused) phrasing doesn't actually convince me that I'm being outwitted.

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Into delicious irony.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

MMOs? Actually, yeah. We have good textures in 1.0...hence the lag and poor framerates. On offline games, textures are fine, because the system doesn't have the extra workloads that MMOs have.

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lol

Didn't you say you were designing a video game?

<.< >.> You two do realize it's a really bad sign when everyone but you has evacuated the thread right? I don't usually get involved in these types of things, but this is an intervention.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I missed his other comments (I didn't).



He wasn't (you are.)



You're doing the same thing that you're condemning him for, which turned this post:



Into delicious irony.

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Its not delicious or irony, nor even hypocrisy for that matter, because the point I was making flew so far over your head that you apparently can't even begin to comprehend its existence, much less what it actually was. And I'm not going to spell it out for you, because if you need to be told, then that's just sad. When you actually contribute to the debate at hand, maybe I'll dignify you with a respectful response. But until then, I'll only respond with what your comments warrant, which is a mixture of amusement and pity.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

lol

Didn't you say you were designing a video game?

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And this has anything to do with it because...?

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Originally Posted by Hulan

<.< >.> You two do realize it's a really bad sign when everyone but you has evacuated the thread right? I don't usually get involved in these types of things, but this is an intervention.

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Lol, what? I'm having fun. How can you not when people get so heated and up in arms over a thing as minute as how realistic videogame grass is? :) Join us...its fun!

Though it is getting less and less fun the more this guy makes totally disjointed remarks that have no connection with anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Dev team, do you think you could adjust the grass before 2.0's launch? :D

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...349/rea_14.jpg
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...349/rea_14.jpg

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...349/rea_03.jpg
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/img/...349/rea_03.jpg

I think the grass looks particularly bad in this last one. Notice that the grass is indeed 2D grass. It's painfully obvious. There is a better way to do 2D grass though:

http://i.imgur.com/5IIFT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5IIFT.jpg

Wow! Xenoblade's grass is so much easier on the eyes. It's because every piece of grass is identical, and it auto-rotates to face the camera. It's an illusion that is broken if you stare at one piece of grass while you move around, but as an ambient component of the overall scene it is quite pleasing to the eyes. Also the Xenoblade grass would result in even better framerates.

Do it!

Also I know the trees are a little more of a stretch, but who thinks the trees in Xenoblade look better? They are 2D.

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I'm fine with it, still better looking than any other MMO on the market, and please stop using offline titles as comparison.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Its not delicious or irony, nor even hypocrisy for that matter, because the point I was making flew so far over your head that you apparently can't even begin to comprehend its existence, much less what it actually was. And I'm not going to spell it out for you, because if you need to be told, then that's just sad. When you actually contribute to the debate at hand, maybe I'll dignify you with a respectful response. But until then, I'll only respond with what your comments warrant, which is a mixture of amusement and pity.

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You called someone out for calling you stupid.

You called someone stupid.

There is no other point, I would say that you're using subverted support, but you're not even trying to explain the phenomenon. (it doesn't exist.)

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

You called someone out for calling you stupid.

You called someone stupid.

There is no other point, I would say that you're using subverted support, but you're not even trying to explain the phenomenon. (it doesn't exist.)

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Is it really that complicated? Really? I'm sure if other people WISHED to subject themselves to having to deal with you, that they could explain to you what my point was, but frankly I'm a little astonished. Honestly, I don't believe you tried. There's a few key words in my statements that you apparently merely skimmed over. Go ahead, give it another go around, think a little harder. I have faith that you can get those old cogs rolling and figure it out without me having to give you the cheatsheet.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Is it really that complicated? Really? I'm sure if other people WISHED to subject themselves to having to deal with you, that they could explain to you what my point was, but frankly I'm a little astonished. Honestly, I don't believe you tried. There's a few key words in my statements that you apparently merely skimmed over. Go ahead, give it another go around, think a little harder. I have faith that you can get those old cogs rolling and figure it out without me having to give you the cheatsheet.

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I've broken down your post. If you have another point the burden of proof is on you to explain it. The whole "You're too stupid to get my point!" argument is a logical fallacy as it stands, but lets not delve into that, shall we?

I'll wait.

Seriously? Whining over grass? And then using single person games for comparisons? Some people really need to get a grip.

I'm going to have to agree this grass really looks bad. It was the first thing i noticed when i seen the new pics. I think it would be alot better if they just cut down on how much grass there is visible.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I've broken down your post. If you have another point the burden of proof is on you to explain it. The whole "You're too stupid to get my point!" argument is a logical fallacy as it stands, but lets not delve into that, shall we?

I'll wait.

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Oh, my faith in humanity has died a little.

Well I'm about to get off here anyway as this has totally derailed and thereby become no longer fun; so as a farewell present, I'll explain what my point was.

My point was that he had stopped contributing to the debate about the grass, and had boiled down into mere insults; thus I informed him that he couldn't expect to win and have me go away just because he insults me, and that he needs to provide a substantial argument toward the subject of his debate if he's going to expect to win it. But you stepped in and quite immediately went into the 'no substance, all insults' stance as well, and thus I was not going to dignify that with serious responses. You may have noted, that in the instances in which you DID attempt to debate the TOPIC of this thread, I also responded in kind. With sarcasm when you dealt sarcasm, and seriousness when called for. But the majority of your comments were irrelevant to the topic, and thus didn't warrant any more of a respectful response than the one I gave Neptune.

Case in point, I wasn't complaining about him throwing insults, I was complaining about his use of insults and LACK OF SUBSTANCE as an attempt to win the debate. I was not insulting you as an attempt to win a debate over grass. He WAS insulting me as an attempt to win a debate over grass.

Now, I really do hope that you have the capacity to grasp my point now that I've laid it all out for you.

And with that, I bid you adieu and good day.

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Originally Posted by Lum

I'm going to have to agree this grass really looks bad. It was the first thing i noticed when i seen the new pics. I think it would be alot better if they just cut down on how much grass there is visible.

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It actually looks a lot better in the live demo. I think it's the moving shadows on the grass that makes it look grainy and badly textured.

It doesn't help that the screenshots are in a pretty low resolution either. I'm actually more excited to see Thanalan than the shroud though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM6bi4RP25o

I don't really feel like taking the time to describe in depth how stupid your request is.

All I want to say is, Rendering grass the way it is done in Xeno is very graphics intensive and to doing it in an MMO causes a painful amount of lag.

It looks good enough.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

My point was that he had stopped contributing to the debate about the grass, and had boiled down into mere insults

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You did the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

he needs to provide a substantial argument toward the subject of his debate if he's going to expect to win it.

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You said "u mad" which is about the worst possible argument to use on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

But you stepped in and quite immediately went into the 'no substance, all insults' stance as well, and thus I was not going to dignify that with serious responses.

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There was substance mixed with the insults, like a delicious cocktail.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

You may have noted, that in the instances in which you DID attempt to debate the TOPIC of this thread, I also responded in kind.

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Actually you tried to deflect with sarcasm:

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Yes, give me lagging and low framerates! I WANT BETTER GRASS!!

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Case in point, I wasn't complaining about him throwing insults, I was complaining about his use of insults and LACK OF SUBSTANCE as an attempt to win the debate.

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He used both sparingly. He countered with insults when you said "U mad" like the lyrical assassin that you are.

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Originally Posted by Punainen

Now, I really do hope that you have the capacity to grasp my point now that I've laid it all out for you.

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http://i47.tinypic.com/2f0dqvp.jpg

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Originally Posted by Punainen

And with that, I bid you adieu and good day.

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http://i46.tinypic.com/ve6gy1.jpg
I know you're reading this :)

To EVERYONE complaining about graphical stuff in the screenshots/video : THE GAME DIDN'T EVEN REACH PRE-ALPHA! It will most likely be made better later. A few yeaks ago, Yoshi P said that they were stilling optimizing the graphics. I doubt that the version they are showing us today is the latest version.

Soooo....why is this thread continuing? :o

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Originally Posted by Randelmire

To EVERYONE complaining about graphical stuff in the screenshots/video : THE GAME DIDN'T EVEN REACH PRE-ALPHA! It will most likely be made better later. A few yeaks ago, Yoshi P said that they were stilling optimizing the graphics. I doubt that the version they are showing us today is the latest version.

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They are also, most certainly, not playing at max settings. Demos never do. Too much risk of lag.

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Originally Posted by Randelmire

To EVERYONE complaining about graphical stuff in the screenshots/video : THE GAME DIDN'T EVEN REACH PRE-ALPHA! It will most likely be made better later. A few yeaks ago, Yoshi P said that they were stilling optimizing the graphics. I doubt that the version they are showing us today is the latest version.

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This is technically pre-alpha. Alpha start in 1-2 month.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

/insert insult here

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^
Order of business:
Gameplay > Framerate & UI/Server response > Anything else > Graphics

You know what? If all you guys can find to complain about is the grass then I'd say SE has done an absolutely fantastic job with 2.0 lol.

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Originally Posted by Synfrag

^
Order of business:
Gameplay > Framerate & UI/Server response > Anything else > Graphics

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I disagree personally.

Gameplay = UI/server response > Graphics > Music > Anything else