WoW's player housing will have no FOMO and private housing wards

Their approach is better (or rather more generous) on paper (obviously it's meant to be a competitor to ffxiv housing so obviously it needs to look better) but they have conflicting goals.

"We dont want too many zones to ecourage socialization" but "we want everyone to have a house", so there will be, in fact, many instances of these zones.

"We want everyone to be able to have a house and will never destroy them" means that these neighborhoods will eventually be littered with the abandoned houses of people who have stopped playing, also conflicting with socialization.

Also making it cheap and accessible means you'll have a lot of abandoned houses even from people who are playing. A lot of people will get a house just because they can but never use it.

Because people socialize in XIV housing wards? Are we playing the same game? They're all empty all day long.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Because people socialize in XIV housing wards? Are we playing the same game? They're all empty all day long.

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I was just pointing out the contradiction in blizzards post. They are overselling their approach a bit.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Because people socialize in XIV housing wards? Are we playing the same game? They're all empty all day long.

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I believe there is a community going in the housing wards.
But most western players just don the latest attire/haircut from the shop and do the bees knees at Limsa as their cute female Miqote/Au ra/Lalafell/Viera#23543 to feel special with it since they can flex with their wallet.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

Their approach is better (or rather more generous) on paper (obviously it's meant to be a competitor to ffxiv housing so obviously it needs to look better) but they have conflicting goals.

"We dont want too many zones to ecourage socialization" but "we want everyone to have a house", so there will be, in fact, many instances of these zones.

"We want everyone to be able to have a house and will never destroy them" means that these neighborhoods will eventually be littered with the abandoned houses of people who have stopped playing, also conflicting with socialization.

Also making it cheap and accessible means you'll have a lot of abandoned houses even from people who are playing. A lot of people will get a house just because they can but never use it.

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From what I took away from their post is as such.

Public Neighborhoods, which the game servers are responsible for creating as needed and maintaining.
- Made by blizzard, probably nice and pretty and serving whatever function blizzard wants (Think RL Golf Estate Housing minus the resident exclusivity, pretty, has features etc... but you cant change it), probably end up as social hubs.

Private Neighborhoods created by groups of friends or guilds to inhabit, progress, and customize together
- Whatever Chaos players want to create

It looks like they've basically looked at all FF players complaints about housing, since they directly reference the big ones.

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Blizzard, considering you are most likely reading this thread.
Please let housing zones feel alive and not be ghost towns that this game has, give a reason to actually use them and your game needs a social hub.
See you at end of year or sooner.

Thanks


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Good for WoW to, again, disprove the myth about system limitations once again (it was the transmogrification system before, now it's housing plots) by using the same format as FFXIV but actually offering virtually limitless wards. Bit weird they don't go for more zone options since each 'hood is limited to 50 plots anyways. They should expand the variety in the future even if I'll never get the zone I actually want, which is Winterspring.

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Originally Posted by NaoSen

Blizzard, considering you are most likely reading this thread.
Please let housing zones feel alive and not be ghost towns that this game has, give a reason to actually use them and your game needs a social hub.

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You're expecting way too much from blizzard. The only way they know to incentivize players to participate in something is to give rewards for it. And players in turn optimize for getting these rewards while interacting as little as possible with the feature that gives them.

So what will likely happen is that players will get houses and participate in housing just enough for the rewards. The result will be that those mostly inactive players house will litter the housing neighborhoods to the detriment of people who want to participate in the housing system in earnest.

I know it's going to play out like this because thats exactly what happened with world pvp. They gave rewards to incentivize players, and players optimized the world pvp out of the world pvp by massively switching to the same faction so they can get the world pvp rewards without doing any pvp.

I know that people like to think that the grass is greener elsewhere but blizzard is as incompetent overall as cbu3, just not in the same way.

It sounds like a very nice housing system. I see this as a positive because competition is always good. FFXIV lit a fire under WoW's ass and it has become a much better game for it. If that in turn does the same thing for FFXIV then everyone's a winner. :)

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

Good for WoW to, again, disprove the myth about system limitations once again (it was the transmogrification system before, now it's housing plots) by using the same format as FFXIV but actually offering virtually limitless wards.

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I don't disagree that FFXIV should keep working to improve its systems but your comparison doesn't make much sense. Other than both being MMOs they're two entirely different beasts under the hood which makes their system limitations completely irrelevant to one another. It's like saying a Prius should be able to go as fast as a top of the line Lambo because they're both cars.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

You're expecting way too much from blizzard. The only way they know to incentivize players to participate in something is to give rewards for it. And players in turn optimize for getting these rewards while interacting as little as possible with the feature that gives them.

So what will likely happen is that players will get houses and participate in housing just enough for the rewards. The result will be that those mostly inactive players house will litter the housing neighborhoods to the detriment of people who want to participate in the housing system in earnest.

I know it's going to play out like this because thats exactly what happened with world pvp. They gave rewards to incentivize players, and players optimized the world pvp out of the world pvp by massively switching to the same faction so they can get the world pvp rewards without doing any pvp.

I know that people like to think that the grass is greener elsewhere but blizzard is as incompetent overall as cbu3, just not in the same way.

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Right now, it's not hard for me to think the grass is greener. I started playing at end of SHB, I don't do Savage or Ultimate, come Endwalker I got to see SE continuously waste potential and do the absolute bare minimum of QOL, Criterion was a mess, Island Sanctuary was just a chore, Relics? What relics it's just tome weapons, Blue Mage's Exquisite version of their umbrella require Criterion Savage completion (Great SE, lock a jobs weapon behind content they can't even enter), got to see jobs become more and more homogenised, to see them removing the MMO from MMORPG with Trusts (I understand social anxiety people this helps but it showed a single player mindset in a MMO), housing item limits still ridiculous, solution to shortage just throwing more wards at housing.

When Dawntrail came along I was highly optimistic "Highest content expansion", "A New Beginning" etc... all looking great and thinking "They must have learned from endwalker", yet here we are 7 months later, we have a dual dye system, the tribe added is potentially the lowest effort to date, story was poor at best (I still think it will improve though). Not once have they gone and taken players concerns and went "Hey its a lot of work but they will really be happy having it".

Meanwhile I see GW2 added homesteads with great housing, tried PSO2 NGS (I know its housings been like that for a long time, nothing new) and saw how its instanced housing is amazing, companies mentioning player feedback etc...

How am I to have any faith in square enix at this point at them caring about what their playerbase thinks ? If a features bad I expect it to stay bad.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

You're expecting way too much from blizzard. The only way they know to incentivize players to participate in something is to give rewards for it. And players in turn optimize for getting these rewards while interacting as little as possible with the feature that gives them.

So what will likely happen is that players will get houses and participate in housing just enough for the rewards. The result will be that those mostly inactive players house will litter the housing neighborhoods to the detriment of people who want to participate in the housing system in earnest.

I know it's going to play out like this because thats exactly what happened with world pvp. They gave rewards to incentivize players, and players optimized the world pvp out of the world pvp by massively switching to the same faction so they can get the world pvp rewards without doing any pvp.

I know that people like to think that the grass is greener elsewhere but blizzard is as incompetent overall as cbu3, just not in the same way.

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There is definitely a bit of "grass is greener on the other side" going on, but that is not entirely it. I do not want to go too off topic, but there are many systems that current WoW just does better than ffxiv like world and dungeon content. It would not be surprising if their implementation of the housing system would be better too. Not saying WoW is without its faults, but I think a lot of people that play both games would at least be able to recognize that the tables have turned a bit in terms of game design quality.

Yeah, try WoW but will never return, not something I like.
There are many things I like FFXIV more than WoW, but housing really is a very poor implementation. Owned one as some point and eventually give it up. Not worth the sub just to keep the house. In many wards there are no neighbours.
If FC room or apartment have the same function of house, like planting, most of the complain will be gone.
SE prove they could do it just choose not to, hope WoW housing will have some impact and wake up SE

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Originally Posted by Buttobi

but there are many systems that current WoW just does better than ffxiv like world

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Wow's world pvp is fubar for a variety of reasons, so what world content? World quests aren't any better than fates.

But yes, there are things wow do better, like battlegrounds, or class design in general. Then there are things that are downright laughable such as character appearance and transmogs (like yes, the transmog system is great, but the visuals are crap), or everything regarding storytelling.

That's why i said blizzard is as incompetent as cbu3, just in a different way. A game combining the strong points of both wow and ffxiv would be amazing.

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Originally Posted by NaoSen

From what I took away from their post is as such.

Public Neighborhoods, which the game servers are responsible for creating as needed and maintaining.
- Made by blizzard, probably nice and pretty and serving whatever function blizzard wants (Think RL Golf Estate Housing minus the resident exclusivity, pretty, has features etc... but you cant change it), probably end up as social hubs.

Private Neighborhoods created by groups of friends or guilds to inhabit, progress, and customize together
- Whatever Chaos players want to create

It looks like they've basically looked at all FF players complaints about housing, since they directly reference the big ones.

--------
Blizzard, considering you are most likely reading this thread.
Please let housing zones feel alive and not be ghost towns that this game has, give a reason to actually use them and your game needs a social hub.
See you at end of year or sooner.

Thanks


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The pointed jabs at the housing system here doesn't mean that Blizzard has come up with solutions that will create a better overall experience or avoid some of the problems that still plague housing here.

I see 2 positive things from their article that I'm fairly certain they can deliver on: Warband sharing (in other words, alts will automatically be tenants of any house owned on the same account) and every player will be able to have at least one house.

Everything else is vague at best, especially considering they want the entire system to be deeply social yet some of the stated features will destroy any meaningful social aspect over time.

There are mentions of both "your house" and "your houses" so it's uncertain if players will be able to have multiple houses. "Your" could be referring to "you, the individual player" or "you, the collective player base".

Dynamic neighborhoods could be based on their sharding technology, which may end up no better than standard instanced housing (other houses you see around yours may just be generic backdrop filler) or which might mean you have a different set of neighbors every time you go to your house based on who is currently online (oh the irony of your house suddenly ending up next to one belonging to someone you hate).

Decoration may be interior only and not exterior. They only shared concept art for interiors and one of the neighborhoods, with the neighborhood showing the same art for every house location.

We know the cash shop will be involved but not to what degree. What if we're promised a starting item limit of 75 items but you have to go through the cash shop to increase it to 150 or 500? Someone mentioned RIFT's housing system earlier (which I think was one of the best housing systems ever) but the cash shop did have a heavy hand in a player's ability to upgrade their housing. There was a game currency option for upgrades to certain levels (excellent gold sink, btw) but the highest upgrade level could only be obtained through cash shop tokens.

"No high purchase costs" is going to vary in value depending on player status and WoW has seen some serious inflation during the 6 years I wasn't playing. Seeing "No purchase cost" would have been much more reassuring.

In the long run, I suspect what WoW does with their housing system is going to have little impact on what we see here. A large percentage of players have made their choice based on brand/franchise loyalty (or hatred) and housing comparison isn't likely to sway them from changing which game they want to play.

Mentioned this before but WoW will prolly turn out better in the long run. Its a very rough transition with Blizzard/Activision/Microsoft but now they can basically throw all sorts of money and developers at it...

To me, a good MMO housing system has four components:

1. It allows the player to be creative with few or no limitations.

Being able to place things wherever you want and having a vast number of decorative options is crucial for this. However, in FFXIV, the plugin which allows free placement of items is against the terms of service and the ability to choose a floor layout and house size are restricted by housing availability. The only layout that is accessible to all is the apartments which can't be customized.

2. It's a way to show your achievements.

Designs that you can only earn by achieving things in game should be included in housing. Sadly almost every furniture that drops in content is tradeable and as a result, meaningless.

3. There is an incentive to spend time at the house.

Being able to show off your creativity and trophies is pointless if nobody visits your house. There is nothing at the house you can't also access somewhere else, and also there are crucial things you can't access at the house. World travel, glamour dresser and grand company turn-ins frequently draw people away from their house and into major cities but there are no reasons to return to the house. When visiting other people's houses you can't interact with anything unless you've been granted access.

4. No predatory practices.

From requiring players to gamble to access housing, to destroying earned player furnishings in demolished houses after a time and selling them on the cash shop instead of keeping them available in-game, and having a FOMO chokehold on players who reluctantly subscribe monthly because they don't want to compete for housing again, it's clear that dev convenience and profits are prioritized over the enjoyment of players.

If WoW's housing can manage to hit those points it will be the thing that tips the scales and gets me to give that game another try. They have already improved other features of WoW (while this game downgraded) to the point where I honestly can't tell what FFXIV does better anymore.

Even though Square Enix has long since stopped caring about feedback, it's obvious from the blog post that somebody at Blizzard is reading this forum and paying attention. This post is aimed at them.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Mentioned this before but WoW will prolly turn out better in the long run. Its a very rough transition with Blizzard/Activision/Microsoft but now they can basically throw all sorts of money and developers at it...

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Wow have many problems that are not the result of a lack of developers. And as long as it generates a positive cash flow I don't see Microsoft investing a lot in wow. They're more likely to use warcraft ip for other games.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

Wow have many problems that are not the result of a lack of developers. And as long as it generates a positive cash flow I don't see Microsoft investing a lot in wow. They're more likely to decline the warcraft ip into other games.

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Except they're spending more on WoW's development than ever with the dev team being the largest it's ever been. Not to mention there's several versions of WoW Classic which are all fully funded alongside the modern game, all of which is made available to players under one subscription fee.

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Originally Posted by Johners

Except they're spending more on WoW's development than ever with the dev team being the largest it's ever been. Not to mention there's several versions of WoW Classic which are all fully funded alongside the modern game, all of which is made available to players under one subscription fee.

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I stand corrected. Nonetheless wow’s narration for example was not awful because of a lack of budget, so I remain unconvinced.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

I stand corrected. Nonetheless wow’s narration for example was not awful because of a lack of budget, so I remain unconvinced.

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On average I would say FFXIV does better with story; however, I do feel their more recent stuff has improved story telling a lot from ancient memories (if that is what you basing it off like I was), definitely more story and sometimes told in a way that is better (quest design is better, or the cutscene is higher polished). It doesn't rise to the challenge as often as FFXIV though, we have way way way way more MSQ quests (sometimes too much, but many of those are telling the story better).


I would say I prefer WoW's gravitas style of voice acting. I don't hate the voice actors here, many do very well, and id say none I want to mute (like I wanted to mute vanille in FFXIII), but I seldom feel gravitas (insert other synonymous words here) that I feel from WoW, or many other works (like Fromsoft, or even FFXVI). I imagine some of that is how the actors are directed / audio is mixed at the end and not even the actors control, having done very low skill variant of that myself (finding I can get my voice light and young to deep and boomy with relative ease, both sounding unedited.. but totally were lol).

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

Wow's world pvp is fubar for a variety of reasons, so what world content? World quests aren't any better than fates.

But yes, there are things wow do better, like battlegrounds, or class design in general. Then there are things that are downright laughable such as character appearance and transmogs (like yes, the transmog system is great, but the visuals are crap), or everything regarding storytelling.

That's why i said blizzard is as incompetent as cbu3, just in a different way. A game combining the strong points of both wow and ffxiv would be amazing.

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I will mostly be speaking about Dragonflight here, but that expansion had tons of interesting world content. It did not just have standard world quests, there were dynamic events like Fyrakk burning up different zones, dynamically changing them and having you clear out the surrounding zones of primalists. There were also the event quests that would have you do more than just talk to npcs for 15 minutes to collect your emote. I recall a couple where you had to create a giant soup with the community, or one where you had to lead a giant treant through the forest to safety while fending off waves of enemies.These are just a few examples but DF was filled with world content that was more than just world quests. I could go into the collectibles (similair to sightseeing logs from ffxiv which I like) or dragonriding content like racing and collecting essences for raid levels of gear. You get the idea. WoW just does more interesting things with its open world than ffxiv does at the moment. If it was not for field operations, all we have are hunts and fates. These are not bad content but it's just not varied enough and they only get updated in the .0 patch.

I will give you that the story is a bit boring, decent at best. But I just can not agree that the visuals are crap. Not that these previous two things matter too much to me cause the rest of the game I find enjoyable. Of course there are certain things that ffxiv does better, but at the moment I think the tables have turned into the favor of WoW on a lot of the game design. This housing system just being one other example. Granted, it gets implemented the way they are describing it.

WoW's world content is massively better than FFXIV's... The variety is substantially higher, and due to the flight system traveling is more fun. Though if we are patting MMOs on the back, GW2 deserves the gold star.

WoW is completely cooking FF right now. They know how to get players back and are always involved and updating with these last two expansions. FF seems like it's on life support where no one cares at the office anymore this last year and a half.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

On average I would say FFXIV does better with story

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I agree with this but also TWW was high literature compared to the bargin bin manga we got in DT and Dragonflight was even better than EW in a lot of ways esp the EW post patch story, so WoW is even winning on that front atm. And if you add content into that.....

I really hope everything going on with WoW, the massive loss of players and the poor reception of DT lights a fire under SE and they make a glorious comeback (again. Does lightning strike twice though?) instead of just resting on their laurels and letting the game slowly slip into maintenance mode. But at the same time it's very hard to have any confidence in CBU3 who is showing us nothing compared to Blizz who appears to be making a lot of effort. I hope they prove me wrong and this is just a blip, but it just really doesn't feel like it. Where WoW was the great who fell and picked themselves up, dusted themselves off and took the time to self reflect and improve, SE just seems to believe their name will continue to carry them and their fanbase will remain forever loyal. But as someone who was formerly extremely loyal but now spending the majority of his time in WoW, that can only take them so far before they lose us too. Some, as evidenced in these forums and on reddit, will just take longer.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Everything else is vague at best, especially considering they want the entire system to be deeply social yet some of the stated features will destroy any meaningful social aspect over time.
.

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This was the part that bothered me was the amount of hypocrisy or things that we know failed in the past when it came to being social. One of the things someone from WoW told me on VC yesterday was also a thing where, WoW doesn't have as good of a system surrounding the enjoyment of housing as what FF14 does. Even if they deliver on housing, the character models are trash compared to ff14, the plugin community for RP/QoL in that specific area is mediocre compared to ff14 (do not use these, these are against ToS), their emote system is trash compared to ff14 with me hearing they haven't added an emote since Obama was president, and the glam style of WoW is not versatile with them having casual clothing etc. They won't have nightclub attire, they won't have pajamas, and other themes for various housing environments, they won't have the visual quality, emotes and other animations for enjoyment of the housing in a social aspect as much compared to ff14. Their playerbase should fundamentally have less of a social interest in housing than what we do. Which makes them assume, they're going to go in some completely other direction for the appeal for housing to players. Paying to upgrade housing is something they predicted as well, and essentially leaning into a more company workshop-orientated system with surrounding decoration might be more accurate to what they planned. Their housing demand may be different just off them incorporating housing with PvE elements moreso than ff14 does, which could decrease it a lot or spike it to hell if it's like free company buffs on steroids. We don't really have our devs saying things like: "Housing isn’t something players should expect to “finish”, but instead continually look forward to the next housing release, be it new content or systems. " Like, this could go sideways very quickly and turn from a side project for fun to something that requires maintenance/updating.

I hope their housing system is fantastic. Maybe it will encourage SE to invest money in to FFXIV and improve the housing system.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

WoW is completely cooking FF right now. They know how to get players back and are always involved and updating with these last two expansions. FF seems like it's on life support where no one cares at the office anymore this last year and a half.

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WoW still makes numerous errors and keeps straining the goodwill of their player, time and again.
The recent big one was that 90$ mount along with other mount packs during their 20th anniversary.

The recent one is the mount recolors of the current trading post original being in the shop with extra Tender, 'in case you run short'.
RNG drops on limited time events is still a also issue they refuse to properly address.
And much needed character customization is glossed over by making a lean emote and minuscule height changes as a potion instead of just giving it directly to the player as a QoL feature.

It took them TWO mediocre expansions and massive internal drama to get halfway back on track, but they are still miles behind when it comes to Quality of Life features XIV has.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

WoW still makes numerous errors and keeps straining the goodwill of their player, time and again.
The recent big one was that 90$ mount along with other mount packs during their 20th anniversary.

The recent one is the mount recolors of the current trading post original being in the shop with extra Tender, 'in case you run short'.
RNG drops on limited time events is still a also issue they refuse to properly address.
And much needed character customization is glossed over by making a lean emote and minuscule height changes as a potion instead of just giving it directly to the player as a QoL feature.

It took them TWO mediocre expansions and massive internal drama to get halfway back on track, but they are still miles behind when it comes to Quality of Life features XIV has.

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but they are still miles behind when it comes to Quality of Life features XIV has

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I wont lie that was extremely funny to read I get what you did there.

Oh wait you werent joking...

I think SE just needs to take the L on their Housing system and start bulking it up in 8.0. Not expanding wards. Not adding new area for Housing.

Follow what your opponent is doing and build it better than it is now - because right now it’s a laughing stock how horribad Housing is. At best? I’ll get an Apartment and settle with that since getting a House is basically playing the slot machine at this point.

They seriously need instanced housing since mind that would actually blow WoW out of the water on that front - especially for your casual players. It’d actually allow them to engage in the rare thing that is the Gardening system that gatekept Thavnairian Onions for years.

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

I played Rift for years, and they had a very good housing concept. You bought a dimensional key for a specific location in the game world, and the game created a copy of this place for you as your private personal space.

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That sounds like a dream to me! My only other MMO housing experience is ESO, and what impressed me was the sheer variety of different housing options they had! XIV’s neighborhood system is cute, and I’m not in favor of removing the wards, but I do think it’s holding them back from innovation and improvement, and we need something more.

Things we should definitely have by now… a Z axis for furniture placement, the ability to share housing with alts, and an instanced system that allows any paying subscriber to have at least one fully functional housing plot, whether they prefer not to engage with the lotto, or are just unlucky. Bare minimum everyone is paying, everyone should have an equivalent housing experience: one personal plot, one FC plot if desired, one apartment, one FC room. The full spectrum should be available to all. At the very least, the instanced version should not be subject to auto-demo because it’s not taking up space in a permanently loaded ward.

Things I’d like to see… more variety and innovation through instanced housing, such as different shapes, sizes, and kinds of dwellings, and many different settings from this game’s beautiful world. Along with that, the ability to own multiple housing types, since instanced won’t take anything away from anyone else to have multiple spaces. The ability to add rooms on to personal houses, a personal storage chest like the FC has, and along with this, the ability for all your characters on the same account to have a room and use that chest for tradeable items. (And ward housing should have this already since housing is limited one to account!)

The experimentation we saw in Island Sanctuary and the new interior layout remodel along with the upcoming interior size change, are great steps in the right direction, but they’re not addressing the biggest issues players have with housing.

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

I wont lie that was extremely funny to read I get what you did there.

Oh wait you werent joking...

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They do not have a character customization that comes with individual colorable eyes and hair/highlights and can only choose presets when it comes to Heterochromia.
Neither have their gotten a height slider, and instead rely on potions and toys to have a effect on it. And guess what, the 'leaning potion' is a race exclusive one.
Neither do not have access to any of the new emotes the game constantly provides their NPC's with, or have reworked their emote system. Yes, you STILL need to type it out via /emote, and making macros for it clogs up the macro storage.

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Originally Posted by Clockworks

I wont lie that was extremely funny to read I get what you did there.

Oh wait you werent joking...

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It’s true though. There's a lot of things people take for granted in ffxiv that simply dont exist in wow. Like the ability to teleport pretty much anywhere, or the gathering log.

On the ui side you have to install a boatload of third party addons of questionable quality to arrive at something vaguely as functional as ffxiv (and it's all amateurish code ridden with bugs and performance issues) because small indy company can't build a good user experience.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

They do not have a character customization that comes with individual colorable eyes and hair/highlights and can only choose presets when it comes to Heterochromia.
Neither have their gotten a height slider, and instead rely on potions and toys to have a effect on it. And guess what, the 'leaning potion' is a race exclusive one.
Neither do not have access to any of the new emotes the game constantly provides their NPC's with, or have reworked their emote system. Yes, you STILL need to type it out via /emote, and making macros for it clogs up the macro storage.

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Eye color and height sliders are fluff. None of that matters is the game itself is hot garbage. The one advantage FF had was it's story. They have now even lost that with DT.

You don't actually need any addons to make the WoW UI good. They implemented a ton of addon features into the game as well. The only time I felt the need to get addons is for raidlogging (ffxiv is no different in this department if you're serious about raiding).

That being said, I do agree that we do take certain things for granted that ffxiv does. Both games got good and bad parts and can improve on each other by stealing each other's ideas. Personally I think WoW is winning out on being the better game at this very moment, but not long ago it was ffxiv that was far better (shadowbringers and shadowlands). This opinion differs from person to person of course. I got a couple close friends that do not agree and think ffxiv is still in a better spot than WoW in terms of being the better game. That's totally fair.

I am glad that a lot of people in this thread are able to see both sides. I hope SE takes steps to steal the good parts of WoW that it is missing currently, and vice versa whenever I play WoW.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

It’s true though. There's a lot of things people take for granted in ffxiv that simply dont exist in wow. Like the ability to teleport pretty much anywhere, or the gathering log.

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At the same time whats the point of going anywhere in XIV? Most ppl sit in their houses, a hub or in LL and just queue for everything. At least in WoW there are ppl out in the world doing stuff since the world is more than a backdrop for the msq. Having the ability to just teleport anywhere doesn't really matter much if there isn't a reason to teleport anywhere.

What it comes down to is XIV does a few things better than WoW and WoW does some things better than XIV. If you think XIV is the be all end all, that's great. But denying WoW does something better or is overall in a better place right now, even if you don't like it, is just delusional. This us v. them thing that has been engrained into every facet of our lives, esp the past 10 years, really needs to stop. It's exhausting.

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Originally Posted by YumieYumiki

It’s true though. There's a lot of things people take for granted in ffxiv that simply dont exist in wow. Like the ability to teleport pretty much anywhere, or the gathering log.

On the ui side you have to install a boatload of third party addons of questionable quality to arrive at something vaguely as functional as ffxiv (and it's all amateurish code ridden with bugs and performance issues) because small indy company can't build a good user experience.

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Teleporting everywhere being a convenience is another "Officeworker 1.1 hour gametime per week" function, that is used to cover up for the fact that we have:

- No open world to interact with, so therefore running in it or flying in it is simply not worth the effort.
- Not to mention all the goofy flavor text on why a crab or elephant can fly.

WoW is a dumpsterfire for a various amount of reasons, but FFXIV is an uncreative limited dumpsterfire where the "open world" makes you feel like a mime stuck in an invisible box.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Eye color and height sliders are fluff. None of that matters is the game itself is hot garbage. The one advantage FF had was it's story. They have now even lost that with DT.

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Fluff that WoW players desperately want for years now, and only get drip-fed by features that are not directly given to them.
I have seen a LOT of roleplayers that would go crazy when Blizzard finally would implement those properly to their game.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

is overall in a better place right now, even if you don't like it, is just delusional.

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I mean, overall better is going to depend on what you consider even relevant to the argument.
- Does WoW have a golden saucer replacement?
- Does WoW have a mahjong replacement?
- Does WoW have gpose?
- Does WoW have adventure plates?
- Does WoW have social media character accounts with 10-20k+ followers that get messaged by irl companies by accident to have their in-game character sponsor irl products?
- Does WoW have ()Mare Lamentorum()?
- Does WoW have a permanent float emote?
- Is WoW available on consoles at all?
- Does WoW have a venue scene?
- Does WoW have barding groups?
- Does WoW let you play other games easily?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and do custom matches with top pvp players regularly?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and answer questions in in-game chat randomly?
- Does WoW have a blue mage equivalent?

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

I mean, overall better is going to depend on what you consider even relevant to the argument.
- Does WoW have a golden saucer replacement?
- Does WoW have a mahjong replacement?
- Does WoW have gpose?
- Does WoW have adventure plates?
- Does WoW have social media character accounts with 10-20k+ followers that get messaged by irl companies by accident to have their in-game character sponsor irl products?
- Does WoW have ()Mare Lamentorum()?
- Does WoW have a permanent float emote?
- Is WoW available on consoles at all?
- Does WoW have a venue scene?
- Does WoW have barding groups?
- Does WoW let you play other games easily?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and do custom matches with top pvp players regularly?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and answer questions in in-game chat randomly?
- Does WoW have a blue mage equivalent?

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The whole list its just cancer and basically belongs to Second Life (Gold Saucer ad Mahjon I would exclude)

PVP scene have been dead since CC release and without Frontlines would be abandoned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VoidsentStatus

I mean, overall better is going to depend on what you consider even relevant to the argument.
- Does WoW have a golden saucer replacement?
- Does WoW have a mahjong replacement?
- Does WoW have gpose?
- Does WoW have adventure plates?
- Does WoW have social media character accounts with 10-20k+ followers that get messaged by irl companies by accident to have their in-game character sponsor irl products?
- Does WoW have ()Mare Lamentorum()?
- Does WoW have a permanent float emote?
- Is WoW available on consoles at all?
- Does WoW have a venue scene?
- Does WoW have barding groups?
- Does WoW let you play other games easily?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and do custom matches with top pvp players regularly?
- Does the creative director of WoW hop in game and answer questions in in-game chat randomly?
- Does WoW have a blue mage equivalent?

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WoW doesn't have blue because WoW would just make blue a normal job, FFXIV had to limp noodle it because they can't figure out how to make jobs unique. Solid L for FFXIV with how they approached BLU in my book.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

PVP scene have been dead since CC release and without Frontlines would be abandoned.

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For NA and EU. JP's PvP Scene is basically each Data Center there had 2 NA data center's worth of active players. While our scene was dying and had weeks without playing, JP had matches regularly the entire season without fail, holidays included, for longer time periods each day as well. Their PvP tournaments are more frequent, have had up to a bil gil in prizes, and irl company sponsorships. Meanwhile CN's LP scene for PvP is so big that from what I've heard, they have more active players than NA, EU, OCE, and JP combined. CN And KR have their top 100/30/rank 1 rewards in a tournament format officially sponsored as opposed to ladders that can be wintrade instead so they have motivation to take PvP more serious.