7.1 - More Wuk Lamat

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Originally Posted by Asari5

dont skip the cutscenes in 7.1 you wont be able to critizise wuk if you just skip

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They will skip them anyways and rush straight to stuff lol

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Frankly, I think some of us are looking at this as a litmus test for the game. To see how serious and commit Yoshi is about "making thing right" ... and so far, it's not looking good. You can make any number of excuse on their behalf you want, all I see is the same "business as usual". My sub already ran out, and I'll keep an eyes on the game till the end of this year. Unless I see some real and honest afford putting into the game by that point, I probably won't come back. And I don't care if there are a laundry list of reasons showing how is that a short table or I'm being unfair ... I just don't care, some of us just tired of waiting. This is not when they can continue business usual, this is when they need to go the extra mile, or miles.

Especially now, unlike 5-6 years ago, these days there are A LOT better options out there for that 15$/month. Even if none of what I had said so far really matter to Yoshi and his team, than at the very least this I think they should be waking up to this fact.

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What I think people aren't getting is even rewriting a whole story isn't what is expected, you can shuffle lines around, give Wuk's lines to Koana or Krile. If it can't be voiced it can't be voiced but you can definitely shuffle around lines and reduce the amount a character is on screen heavily. They don't have to scrap everything for their 7.1 MSQ but they can remake chunks of it pretty easily in 5 months.
You can also not feature them in marketing material whenever they're an incredibly unpopular character that sparks issues whenever she shows up.
I'm in agreement that SE could make changes if they really wanted to but it seems to be a case where they are personally offended and a bit stubborn about the fact that players didn't like the stuff that they thought would be a home run. It's going to probably take a lot more cancelled subscriptions to get the money people to come down and tell CS3 to stop it, and that's probably going to be in 6-9 months at least.

Something I've said before and I'll say again is if you look at other games like Zenless Zone Zero,
-launched almost the same day as DT
-They had a top-down dungeon crawler section called TV mode
-this was integral to the game and their version of the MSQ
-streamers and youtubers hated it, player base was split but seemed to find it boring
-last month they ripped this TV mode out, and made huge changes to the structure of the game to account for this
Other games are kicking SE's butt at managing live service games. They're more receptive, quicker to give freebies to calm down upset players, make changes faster, and monitor player sentiment on social media to cut off issues before they become a problem.
SE is stuck in the past.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

dont skip the cutscenes in 7.1 you wont be able to critizise wuk if you just skip

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The patch will be filled with the same non-skippable cutscenes and long stretches of dialogue with Wuk on screen. Just to force people to waste as much time with her on set as possible. Square has to hit those cringe check boxes.

I’m afraid I’ve been out of the loop, was that voice acting onion dispute solved or are we likely to get silent cutscenes/characters?

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Originally Posted by fulminating

I’m afraid I’ve been out of the loop, was that voice acting onion dispute solved or are we likely to get silent cutscenes/characters?

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Don't think we know for sure but at least one VA is streaming the game again and the VAs are doing the convention circuit so it's likely whatever company is contracted for lines has a temp deal with the union.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

This is not true, there was a dev talk linked above from earlier in the month where Yoshida mentioned the changes they had made and are making to Wuk from 6.55 and 7.0 feedback.
How is that possible if these patches are locked down a year in advance like you and others are saying? If it's impossible to change anything about the patch quests right now and these are locked down a year in advance, how is it that Yoshida can say they are focusing on making Wuk much more confident and showcasing her strength because of the feedback from 7.0?

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Failed to see any substantial changes requested with Wuk Lamat from 6.55 to 7.0. Even with a year advance, thats what, like 3 pushing 4 major patches... so yeah sounds about right. Im certain well see a change to the story but AT THE VERY END, if only to resolve as much as they can and start off on a new story with the next expansion...

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Originally Posted by Mortex

Sry that we don’t like a bad story and writing in the MMORPG that is famous for a amazing story (and a decent chunk plays it for the story, because let’s be real here there isn’t a lot of content at the moment that is engaging)

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I honestly feel like Wuk Lamat is the best thing that happened to this forum, half of the enjoyment over here seems to hate her guts and her voice actor as much as possible.

That being said it's a nothing complaint, Wuk Lamat won't stay after 7.3, so all you haters have to do is wait until then to pick up the game again if you feel like she ruins the experience this much.

the post was just yesterday and now we are in 9th page,

dear god do this team even listen to feedback?

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Originally Posted by Volgia

That being said it's a nothing complaint, Wuk Lamat won't stay after 7.3, so all you haters have to do is wait until then to pick up the game again if you feel like she ruins the experience this much.

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dumbest take i've read in a while.

and btw ppl hate her VA not for her work but because of her takes on twitter (like calling ppl not liking smile racists). like i'm ok she doesn't deserve threats, but she deserve to be fired.

my unpopular opinion on this is : if SE had listened to feedbacks, they should have not put any msq in 7.1, to take time to have a better writing done (and anyway msq will be, at best, 1-2 hours long so not having msq for once wouldn't have done any harm but heh better stick to a stale formula and don't give a crap about your players opinion), let's be realistic : not having these 1-2 hours won't change a thing in the waiting time to 7.2. just had to put the new lvl 100 dungeon to a side quest and oh ! job done (because next trial will be in 7.2), and everything else is already tied to side content.

i know it'll be a really a very unpopular opinion but still better than the writing we got so far that felt like done by chatgpt.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

dumbest take i've read in a while.

and btw ppl hate her VA not for her work but because of her takes on twitter (like calling ppl not liking smile racists). like i'm ok she doesn't deserve threats, but she deserve to be fired.

my unpopular opinion on this is : if SE had listened to feedbacks, they should have not put any msq in 7.1, to take time to have a better writing done (and anyway msq will be, at best, 1-2 hours long so not having msq for once wouldn't have done any harm but heh better stick to a stale formula and don't give a crap about your players opinion), let's be realistic : not having these 1-2 hours won't change a thing in the waiting time to 7.2. just had to put the new lvl 100 dungeon to a side quest and oh ! job done (because next trial will be in 7.2), and everything else is already tied to side content.

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I mostly agree and saved me the effort of responding, but I will say that for her VA (which I don't even think came up before this person posted) - I think she both does a bad job and is bad PR due to her personality on social media. But I prefer the conversation stays to the bad character writing and focus on that then go down the VA rabbit hole and get another thread locked. Which I guess could have been the intention.

Also the comment about it being a "nothing" complaint and then recommending people just not play for over a year until 7.4 is quite an odd thought process.

Hey hey guys guys i guess this starts the player base villian route xause story skipping is gonna be the main route for ppl.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Sometime I wonder if you just genuinely miss the point

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I don't miss the point but rather I respond to specific aspects of posts. So if I didn't quote the other aspect then perhaps I was not particularly disputing that part of the post.

In this case though we've had all sorts of posts being like "oh they could have just remade the whole expansion after the reaction to 6.55". That's ridiculous enough on its own, so it's rather important to clarify how the circumstances aren't the same as 1.0 and nor are the development timeframes.

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they surely can rewrite a 1h story segment in 4-5 months.

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Well, my personal experience usually isn't just 1 hour, but I don't time it.

In any case, let's say you write Wuk Lamat out of what clearly takes place in Solution Nine / Heritage Found. Who replaces her as the person to talk to Gulool Ja? That could be a difficult void to fill potentially.

The writing of 1 patch can affect the other, and the other after that, so that potentially means rewriting a whole lot more than just that, and then the writing can affect how the assets need to be.

Now let's say they did something drastic and moved us away from the controversial aspects entirely. We never visit Solution Nine or Wuk Lamat ever again and instead go to Othard or Ilsabard to build the new expansion. Then the rewrite and asset creation is even more drastic. But that would be the easiest way to move away from Wuk Lamat.

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Sure, they gonna have to re-recording a few line, rebuilding a few scenes but common

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I think they are doing this, based on what they said, but not in the way most people here want. They're re-recording lines and rebuilding a few scenes to "make her look more confident" and "explain why she had these complex feelings of inferiority".

So sure, they can re-record a few lines but doing that in a way that removes Wuk Lamat is a whole lot more complicated than just changing her words and expressions a bit.

If you mean you're alright with Wuk Lamat staying but want her to express her lines differently, then how would you suggest she express herself?

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

dumbest take i've read in a while.

and btw ppl hate her VA not for her work but because of her takes on twitter (like calling ppl not liking smile racists). like i'm ok she doesn't deserve threats, but she deserve to be fired.

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You quoted the wrong part of my post so I was a bit confused to what you were responding to.

People hated her work back 6.55, making snide comments about her gender identity, misgendering her, deadnaming her, background checking her every take on twitter to make a case that she should be fired and changed, that post is still around here somewhere if you want to read it.

As for that tweet and whenever she should be fired for having a take/opinion on Twitter you didn't like, I disagree.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

You quoted the wrong part of my post so I was a bit confused to what you were responding to.

People hated her work back 6.55, making snide comments about her gender identity, misgendering her, deadnaming her, background checking her every take on twitter to make a case that she should be fired and changed, that post is still around here somewhere if you want to read it.

As for that tweet and whenever she should be fired for having a take/opinion on Twitter you didn't like, I disagree.

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I'd like to request you create your own thread if you want to discuss the voice actor. My topic is about the character's writing and role in the story. I'd prefer this not turn into an identity politics/locked thread. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

What I think people aren't getting is even rewriting a whole story isn't what is expected, you can shuffle lines around, give Wuk's lines to Koana or Krile. If it can't be voiced it can't be voiced but you can definitely shuffle around lines and reduce the amount a character is on screen heavily. They don't have to scrap everything for their 7.1 MSQ but they can remake chunks of it pretty easily in 5 months.
You can also not feature them in marketing material whenever they're an incredibly unpopular character that sparks issues whenever she shows up.
I'm in agreement that SE could make changes if they really wanted to but it seems to be a case where they are personally offended and a bit stubborn about the fact that players didn't like the stuff that they thought would be a home run. It's going to probably take a lot more cancelled subscriptions to get the money people to come down and tell CS3 to stop it, and that's probably going to be in 6-9 months at least.

Something I've said before and I'll say again is if you look at other games like Zenless Zone Zero,
-launched almost the same day as DT
-They had a top-down dungeon crawler section called TV mode
-this was integral to the game and their version of the MSQ
-streamers and youtubers hated it, player base was split but seemed to find it boring
-last month they ripped this TV mode out, and made huge changes to the structure of the game to account for this
Other games are kicking SE's butt at managing live service games. They're more receptive, quicker to give freebies to calm down upset players, make changes faster, and monitor player sentiment on social media to cut off issues before they become a problem.
SE is stuck in the past.

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Exactly. Given Yoshi P's remarks, it is clear things are going to get worse before they get better. I had such high hopes for Dawn Trail; yet, the story has been such a letdown that I've put my main character on the backburner.

I just don't want to play through this expansion. Period.

We could have and should have received something a lot better.

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I'd like to request you create your own thread if you want to discuss the voice actor. My topic is about the character's writing and role in the story. I'd prefer this not turn into an identity politics/locked thread. Thank you.

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You do have to admit that for a small portion of the playerbase these two things are one and the same, even if they'll never admit it. That's just the sad state of things these days.

I personally didn't mind the character too much and I'm honestly surprised that some folks are so up in arms over this. My bigger problem was the writing/tone in general. Wuk Lumat was the face of the expac but the issues were much larger than her. She actually wasn't my least-fav character.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

That being said it's a nothing complaint, Wuk Lamat won't stay after 7.3, so all you haters have to do is wait until then to pick up the game again if you feel like she ruins the experience this much.

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Very optimistic of you to expect people to pick up the game again in a year.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Hey hey guys guys i guess this starts the player base villian route xause story skipping is gonna be the main route for ppl.

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I rather they made like BG3 and allowed me to kill one character of my choosing. I'd killed Wuk Lamat even if it locked me out of content.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The DT story was set in stone long time ago. They will not change it in a very short period of time.




Cheers

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I mean they might as well could have, their patch rythm is already rediciolous, might aswell make it 6 or 7 months and actively used feedback thats not JP forums only

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I will give feedback as I like, thanks. It ruined my morning seeing the brand new 7.1 site and being immediately affronted with Wuk pictures.

Given the info about the patch is new, it’s not a dead horse to talking about her prominent presence reconfirmed when many hoped she’d just take a back seat.

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Everyone has the right to give feedback; some are more reasonable and thought out than others. No one knows how prominent Wuk will be in 7.1. We see images of her, sure, but that is about it. But what about 7.2, 7.3, and beyond? I'm pretty sure we'll get an image that has Wuk in it, and the cycle will repeat again. Just the question is how many are going to continue to kick the horse?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'd like to request you create your own thread if you want to discuss the voice actor. My topic is about the character's writing and role in the story. I'd prefer this not turn into an identity politics/locked thread. Thank you.

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I wasn't even the one who brought it up.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Very optimistic of you to expect people to pick up the game again in a year.

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You wanna bet? These forums are an echo chamber of negativity because it's the closest this game has to customer complaints. If you hang out here long enough you're gonna end up convincing yourself that everyone hates the game which is just untrue.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

You do have to admit that for a small portion of the playerbase these two things are one and the same, even if they'll never admit it. That's just the sad state of things these days.

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If I seem annoying - I've been around for months of Sena/VA threads getting locked and a good number of posters banned. Supporters were also banned, not just people who dislike Wuk. Those threads brought out the worst in people here.

No one was really talking about that aspect that I saw so I'm just trying to avoid that here. Fans/supporters may want to post about it in the Wuk fan club thread perhaps if they are discussing it there or make a thread if they want to go down that road again.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

As for the larger theme of the thread here... whether players like her or not, Wuk Lamat is an important person in the space where the story is currently operating, and I would much rather see her participation brought to a logical conclusion than swept away prematurely in response to complaints.

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Yeah. It'd be weird for her to not be in the story at all.
I expect she'll follow a similar arc to Lyse, and be around while we're directly dealing with issues in her home land but not for much else.

Edit: Maybe in response to the feedback SE will have us hang out more with other characters instead of just her. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect no interactions with her at all.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I figured, but considering the writing for a patch MSQ is like a total of 1 hour of content, and they now take 4 to 5 months per patch, I hoped they could have course corrected just a tad.

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Considering SE moves at a glacier's pace when it comes to any sort of adjustments or feedback responses. Yeah...

Granted, in this particular case, it's not just the writing they'd have to scrap but animation, VA and etc. It's not like a balance change that is mostly numbers, thus warranting more criticism when they take forever and a day to address. That being said, I'm very tempted to just hit ESC throughout 7.1 for the first time through a MSQ patch release. I just can't be bothered with Wuk Lamat scene hogging.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I figured, but considering the writing for a patch MSQ is like a total of 1 hour of content, and they now take 4 to 5 months per patch, I hoped they could have course corrected just a tad.

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Maybe they did. As I said a few month ago, the story was probably already set, but there is a possibility that they might have tweaked what they could. Like WL would still be there but they but other characters getting the spotlight during the quests, without totally removing it, or reworking the script. We still don't know. This whole thread is kinda making a moutain of one screenshot. The complete absence of W.L. was something that never was going to happen in 7.1, and those who thought so are delusionnal.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I honestly feel like Wuk Lamat is the best thing that happened to this forum, half of the enjoyment over here seems to hate her guts and her voice actor as much as possible.

That being said it's a nothing complaint, Wuk Lamat won't stay after 7.3, so all you haters have to do is wait until then to pick up the game again if you feel like she ruins the experience this much.

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Why does bad and awful writing for a Mary sue character is the best thing that happened to this forum ? The character is the most boring goody two shoes we had since ages. She can do nothing wrong and character bend over backwards to fit wuks character. How can you make a decent character introduction and drive it so bad against the wall. Like how can you make a character so despised by a majority of people for an around 15 hour story arc when she has the most lines.

Wuks voice actor and in general the English VA direction is abysmally bad. Like the last trial that is supposed to be the highlight of the Expansion made me almost pierce my eardrums with a metal rod after the famous “Sphene listen to me” part. Doesn’t help that wuks VA is also a sh*tty human being and takes valid criticism as phobia talk. Or calls people racist for not liking a song and calling it “black gospel” when it isn’t even that (A PR Nightmare in any normal case but not for LGBTQ people as we can see because we had the same thing happening before but with a singer and if I remember correctly that person only liked some stuff on twitter year and years ago and got mob cancelled)


We will see because from the way they aggressively try to force wuk on use we could have a bad written black hole sue for longer.

Oh I get to post again coz of free logins lol and checking out the forums it seems the Wuk discourse is still present and coming back for 7.1 xD

People that say they can't pivot the story obviously only had FFXIV as their only game (in 5+ months of production no less lol) and has no experience or knowledge of how good the production value of other live-service games are today

I am definitely not buying or subbing anymore, Yoshi-P and the dev team is so out of touch and the quality is awful

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Originally Posted by Mortex

We will see because from the way they aggressively try to force wuk on use we could have a bad written black hole sue for longer.

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The salt is REAL.

I found her to be fine, this is her story and I enjoyed it. It's the best thing that's happened to these forums because people like you really love to moan and whine about her nonstop.

I don't want them to drop her and skew the story just because a couple of people dislike her, I want them to finish it and move on.

Honestly. I think it was a mistake to make your overall enjoyment of Dawntrail hinge on whether or not you enjoy Wuk as a character. Because if you dislike her too bad so sad - deal with it till the credits roll.

While I personally fancied her - and my dislike of Dawntrail revolves around the overall plot - I can understand why folks are sick of her outright.

'but wuk lamat is such a complex and great character. pls give her another chance, im sure you gonna like her'... doesnt sound like they wann have any less wuk lamat anytime soon

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Originally Posted by EchoingPulse

I rather they made like BG3 and allowed me to kill one character of my choosing. I'd killed Wuk Lamat even if it locked me out of content.

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We should roll for intimidation check and stealth checks on wuk lamat assassination hopefully a nat 20

I expected as much by now, and I understand that they prepared the story probably before releasing 7.0 already.

However...

Seeing those screenshots destroys any anticipation that might have been left. Kills it right off the bat. I know I'll just have to resort to skipping to maintain my sanity.
I can't even wait for the trailer to make things even worse.

I play this game because I found friends in it. Because it became a part of my life 9 years ago. And because I don't want to lose my big house. But many of my friends have already quit...
And I don't know how much more disappointment I can take. :(

It's highly inappropriate to assume she'd get removed THIS fast. But. If they keep her to a minimum and eventually delete her. Them I'm happy. For me. I just want my wol to be important again, not for me but for him. It's an rpg isn't it? Shouldn't the protagonist be... a character too?

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Originally Posted by Aniise

I play this game because I found friends in it. Because it became a part of my life 9 years ago. And because I don't want to lose my big house. But many of my friends have already quit...
And I don't know how much more disappointment I can take. :(

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I see that you play on shiva , I play on twin. Why not come hang out and make some new friends. We can find something together at the very least in hating wuk lamat. It's just a suggestion ofcourse. I really hate to see players alone needlessly

i dont care if im not the main character... but at least make my replacement better than me... which shouldnt be that difficult xD

you were delusional if you thought they would get rid of her so soon

Point on the doll where Wuk Lamat touched you.

Then go speak to Wuk Lamat.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You realize this stuff was already set in stone by the time your feedback was presented, yes?

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Exactly. If she's still around at the halfway mark, then we are in for it. But I expected this.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

dumbest take i've read in a while.

and btw ppl hate her VA not for her work but because of her takes on twitter (like calling ppl not liking smile racists). like i'm ok she doesn't deserve threats, but she deserve to be fired.

my unpopular opinion on this is : if SE had listened to feedbacks, they should have not put any msq in 7.1, to take time to have a better writing done (and anyway msq will be, at best, 1-2 hours long so not having msq for once wouldn't have done any harm but heh better stick to a stale formula and don't give a crap about your players opinion), let's be realistic : not having these 1-2 hours won't change a thing in the waiting time to 7.2. just had to put the new lvl 100 dungeon to a side quest and oh ! job done (because next trial will be in 7.2), and everything else is already tied to side content.

i know it'll be a really a very unpopular opinion but still better than the writing we got so far that felt like done by chatgpt.

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dont insult chatgpt. It can write better storys

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Originally Posted by Volgia

The salt is REAL.

I found her to be fine, this is her story and I enjoyed it. It's the best thing that's happened to these forums because people like you really love to moan and whine about her nonstop.

I don't want them to drop her and skew the story just because a couple of people dislike her, I want them to finish it and move on.

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dude after see all this after steam after meta critique and other stuff you still think its just a few people ? btw not liking something is not whining just for your information.