Is it time for enrage timers in normal content?

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Originally Posted by gllt

My implication is that the decisions that led to the current state are bad because they are the trying to keep people at any cost. No one actually wants you to unsub. They want your money no matter what they say or do.

I agree that good decisions would be a better way to keep people and I agree they aren't making them. But I still think they're make decisions to try and keep (the wrong) people. Like making healers the way they have.

Maybe it's more like this.

The FFXIV team wants to do anything it can to keep you because it's their job and the big Square boys above them need the cash to spend on more bad business decisions. And between budget constraints and trying to keep the playerbase growing at the same time while making choices that discourage some of the current veteran players, as long as it's not too much and the number of concurrent players gets higher overall and makes the number bigger for now, we get bad game design.
All is in service of big player number.

That's how I feel, hopefully that clears it up a bit.

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You are correct. It's not keeping anyone at any cost. It keeps a select group of people at any cost...people who are not even IP or brand loyal and just want a dev team that will do whatever they say.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

How many vuln stacks you sporting? I'm more impressed with a dps who can stay alive because they don't have many options and can't take vuln stacks. Tanks can eat them like candy and it barely makes a dent. Our ability to shrug off mechanics doesn't make us better.

To the OP, I'm fine with soft enrages like M4. It exists so there is an upper limit but it's very forgiving. Or even something like Deathgaze Hollow in Dun Scaith. Still very forgiving but also a definite hard stop on the fight timer.

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Zero? I know the fights and know how to play the game. Hilarious that everyone's retort is to seemingly think that I get vuln stacks in the first place.

Oh yes pls yoshi

make a p8s like dps check in normal content

i want this forum to be full of casuals crying :o

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Originally Posted by Karious

Zero? I know the fights and know how to play the game. Hilarious that everyone's retort is to seemingly think that I get vuln stacks in the first place.

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Whether you eat vuln stacks or not, the reason you're alive isn't because you're awesome, it's because you're a tank. If you do all the mechanics perfectly and you are a healer or a DPS, you're not going to be soloing the boss from 20%.

I think the best solution is still a compromise between both sides: If the game detects the tank(s) is the only one left alive in light/full party, the game immediately starts a 180s countdown to a hard enrage.

With that one simple change, if a tank wants to kill the boss when the healer goes down, they're now forced to work together with the DPS and keep them up or face a 180s hard enrage.

This means tanks can still kill bosses after the healer goes down if they work with the DPS, it also means that tanks can no longer waste everyone's time by focusing only on themselves and then soloing the boss from 80%.

Plus, since the enrage only counts down when the game detects only tanks are left alive, that means there's no pressure on the casuals either.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Whether you eat vuln stacks or not, the reason you're alive isn't because you're awesome, it's because you're a tank. If you do all the mechanics perfectly and you are a healer or a DPS, you're not going to be soloing the boss from 20%.

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Adding onto this as a healer main, I've seen more tanks refuse to use their abilities that help fellow party members, so they could focus on keeping themselves alive (even if I can keep them alive, and have), or just focus on DPS.

I saw so little of it that when it happened, I was surprised to actually learn tanks had abilities that can keep the party alive.

How about instead of antagonizing the tank because the party sucked, he get a stack-able and permanent 2x damage buff every 30 sec ? Everyone is happy, the tank got his anime moment and the losers on the ground other players don't wait for too long.

Let's go even further to make it more dramatic, at 5 stack you get a 30 sec doom debuff and unlock a new damage lb for the tank that reduce his hp to 1 and make him invulnerable until it's over.

Only available in normal/alliance raid.

I’d rather not have all bosses require a fixed number of players to be alive for the fight to continue, because this would also outright prevent soloing even if you didn’t enter with a party in the first place. “Boss enrages if (insert number) players have been dead for (amount of time)” would be preferable.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Everyone is immortal if they do the fight correctly. :)

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This is objectively untrue, especially for DPS. They’ll eventually die to raidwides and other unavoidable damage without outside intervention. Nobody will die if everyone plays perfectly, but playing perfectly as an individual isn’t enough to guarantee your own survival on most jobs.

Having a generous enrage timer wouldn't really place any pressure on the casuals...
There should be room for error in normal difficulty, but you should be required to at least be able to perform some basic DPS and be able to avoid telegraphed attacks.

No, they should only be for High end duties and not normal ones.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Having a generous enrage timer wouldn't really place any pressure on the casuals...
There should be room for error in normal difficulty, but you should be required to at least be able to perform some basic DPS and be able to avoid telegraphed attacks.

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Pretty much. Setting it to 5 minutes after the average midboss, boss, trial, and etc; completion time should make it a non-issue.


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Originally Posted by Aravell

I think the best solution is still a compromise between both sides: If the game detects the tank(s) is the only one left alive in light/full party, the game immediately starts a 180s countdown to a hard enrage.

With that one simple change, if a tank wants to kill the boss when the healer goes down, they're now forced to work together with the DPS and keep them up or face a 180s hard enrage.

This means tanks can still kill bosses after the healer goes down if they work with the DPS, it also means that tanks can no longer waste everyone's time by focusing only on themselves and then soloing the boss from 80%.

Plus, since the enrage only counts down when the game detects only tanks are left alive, that means there's no pressure on the casuals either.

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This is also a good idea.

Also, making phoenix downs usable in battle so we can throw one a healer if they go down would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Shinku_Tachi

Also, making phoenix downs usable in battle so we can throw one a healer if they go down would be nice.

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Careful making too much sense. The dev's might promise to put it in the game during the 11.x patches. Please look forward to it

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Originally Posted by hynaku

No, they should only be for High end duties and not normal ones.

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They're already in normal content.

I hate hard enrage timers, but love soft enrage. I think Wicked Thunder's final mech in Normal is done really well. Though I doubt it will be much of an enrage in a patch or two when healers won't have any trouble covering the damage. The only hard enrage I've liked in XIV is Deathgaze Hollow's Death IV.

tl;dr: Do soft enrages. If there's a hard(ish) enrage then it should fit with the mechanics of the fight and not just be "12 Minutes are up GG" *Boom*.

Honestly, all this thread has told me is that there are tanks who don't understand their tank privilege and assume being alive means they're good and deserve to hold others hostage.

Normal Fights in raids and dungeons are between 5-10 mins.

If a enrage ahould come, it should be after 15-20 mins after atarting boss battle.

And a enrage of full time would be nice, if the content time is over, so just hildu appears from above and his landing kills the whole ppl in there

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Originally Posted by hynaku

No, they should only be for High end duties and not normal ones.

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The new Gaius fight in the Praetorium has an enrage mechanic if you let his gauge fill up. Had a group let it fill just to see what happens before. It's kind of impressive when it goes off.

Ultima Weapon also has an enrage mechanic if you don't kill him before Ultima goes off. Those are both level 50. They're not based on timers but they function in the same manner to instantly wipe the party.