Reverse WoW exodus

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Originally Posted by Kranel_San

WoW have been trying to perform better these last few years to restore the players' faiths and the numbers. Now it's FFXIV turn to do the same.

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I doubt it's even possible. The resources are not even remotely comparable between the two, I am afraid. :(

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I feel like the normal reasonable people left. I genuinely do. What we have left is the mmo equivalent of sloppy seconds.

It's weird because at one moment, 14 feels dead as hell. Maybe not in people afking, but like when you try to engage socially or try to be civil, this game is a corpse. I'm not talking about the 1000k people in a zone breaking the hunt train. I'm talking about the game. The queued up for frontline or msq or leveling. That game is dead. Anti-social. Anti new player, whatever you want to call it. Either out of contept or fear from moderation, this game is socially dead. Sure, your FC or your friend group are lovely, but your average player doesn't care. Your average party member is just in it for the reward. The joy of doing it is dead.

I just feel like if you told me 11 years ago, the community would devolve twice, I wouldn't believe you, but here we are. From the indistinguishable Wow/FF14 players of 2.0 to the heavily moderated players of today. Both kin in their contept for a social aspect. Both content with getting theirs while leaving you to twist. The passive aggressive arrogant sort. The "My game is the best game ever!" sort. The hypocrites and those who prop them up.

If there is an exodus, it's of the people who cared about the game. About its health and future. Because it's hollow now.

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Not sure what you are talking about with queue. But about social part I can tell you I indeed "fear" the moderation. Whatever I could say, even to help would escalated super fast without saying anything afterward to not get it worse, some people just keep bringing it during the whole dungeon or simply refuse to play. It's not even anti new player, new players don't want anything from anyone too.
I don't want to be ban or kick right before the last boss because I dare to tell someone how to do something easier without any afterthought.
So, yeah no thanks won't talk anymore in duty.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

You'd not only have to pay me, including the sub fees and whatever expansions I'd need to purchase (I left in Legion, I have no idea which later expacs are included in the base game now), you'd also have to buy me a new PC, because I ain't doing it.

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you know that you dont have to buy expansions beside of the new one right ? anyway this posts are insae so someone tell you how much of dissapointing a new launch is and all of you like daaaah no wow , wow bad, ignoring that someone who played this game here for a long time leaving the sinkin ship

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Originally Posted by Sivante

I despise how much I felt this.

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I despise that I feel it. That it comes out like that. After 11 years, this game is not social. It can be sure, but it is not by default. Absolutely not in no way.

To be fair, that describes the world as it is in real life. It's just that this is meant to be an escape from reality, not a reminder of it.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

had this feeling that it's just designed specifically to waste your time. Dragonflight gives me a game to play in my time.

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I don't know about Dragonflight, but WoW was a huge time sink before. :)

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Originally Posted by TDawnstar

I doubt it's even possible. The resources are not even remotely comparable between the two, I am afraid. :(

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I don't know.
What CBU3 lacks in funding they have in goodwill of the players.
FF14 devs don't have to do much for the people to be happy just stop stepping into poop which they did quite a bit lately.

My opinion on all this:

A strong WoW is the best thing FF14 can have right now. The game has gone quite some time without any real opposition and it shows in parts.
There was a certain air of superiority in EW and thinking like they could do no wrong and the players would just eat it up.
They have already admitted fault with the combat design in dungeons, overcasualisation and lack of stuff to do in EW. Even their golden cow of job design was admitted to be wanting (what they do with that is to be seen).

No matter how much Yoshida want's to sell that as their own ideas in interviews ("we fell asleep in dungeons", "we think jobs are to samey") it was due to feedback in EW that got louder and louder and culminated in content creators.
DT's story for example might be a leftover of that.

So yeah, I think it's good they get competition again even though I will stay with this game for the forseeable future.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I despise that I feel it. That it comes out like that. After 11 years, this game is not social. It can be sure, but it is not by default. Absolutely not in no way.

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That's just because people avoid social spaces in the game (mostly out of not knowing that they exist). It is a social game. Here is where you can find it...

Hunt trains
S ranks
Spawner/conductor groups
Alliance Raids
Field Operation /shout chats
Free Companies (actually active ones)
Novice Network
Venues
Roleplay events/hubs
Joining PF for any content... raids, spell hunting, maps, FATE farms. Often they will socialize, depending on the people in there.
Discord communities (which can be for FCs, statics, PUG groups that made a discord server, roleplay groups, etc).
Obviously statics themselves.
Content like Ishgard Restoration (or soon Cosmisc Exploration) when it's actually current content.

I do agree it is often hard for new players though. They feel that there isn't any because a lot of this is endgame stuff or they haven't got used to using Party Finder, haven't got into roleplaying or venues, haven't joined any discords, haven't joined the right FC or the Novice Network and haven't tried hunting or anything like that. So they don't see the social spaces. I believe that is why SE made the Fellowship Finder - as a way to funnel people into some social spaces that they have struggled to find and contrary to popular belief, it does work. Often these fellowships fill up with hundreds of players rather quick, despite all the memes people make about fellowships.

I think the problem you have is with people not chatting in a dungeon or in PvP and this is really why:
1. They don't know anyone there.
2. They are too busy fighting.
3. If you actually start talking in PvP often there is chatter. Just got to take the initiative. Someone has to... I do and it works.

Riot MMO was the only feasible proper exodus target, but it's been indefinitely halted. We have two corpses of an MMO that don't have any incentive to be innovative because they hold the major market share of players and the rest just don't matter, to put it bluntly.

So hold onto your pants and "please look forward to it"

Honestly, they've done a lot of new stuff now which is GOOD, but took TEN HUGE steps back with promoting / hiring total rookies into their MAIN WRITING STAFF who have no idea how to write a proper narrative that is well paced, heck I'd go so far in my tinfoil hattery to say they probably don't even know what happened in the past story aside from cliffnotes or a whiteboard bullet point presentation. And the MSQ is one of their MAIN DRAWS. It's honestly baffling.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I feel like the normal reasonable people left. I genuinely do. What we have left is the mmo equivalent of sloppy seconds.

It's weird because at one moment, 14 feels dead as hell. Maybe not in people afking, but like when you try to engage socially or try to be civil, this game is a corpse. I'm not talking about the 1000k people in a zone breaking the hunt train. I'm talking about the game. The queued up for frontline or msq or leveling. That game is dead. Anti-social. Anti new player, whatever you want to call it. Either out of contept or fear from moderation, this game is socially dead. Sure, your FC or your friend group are lovely, but your average player doesn't care. Your average party member is just in it for the reward. The joy of doing it is dead.

I just feel like if you told me 11 years ago, the community would devolve twice, I wouldn't believe you, but here we are. From the indistinguishable Wow/FF14 players of 2.0 to the heavily moderated players of today. Both kin in their contept for a social aspect. Both content with getting theirs while leaving you to twist. The passive aggressive arrogant sort. The "My game is the best game ever!" sort. The hypocrites and those who prop them up.

If there is an exodus, it's of the people who cared about the game. About its health and future. Because it's hollow now.

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I don't share that opinion about the community. It's sort of an expectation that people are going to complain when something goes wrong and they are more likely to complain if they are still trying to play the game and want to play the game, then if they dislike something and just jump to another game. The main issue with the forums is that it often inflates minor issues into bigger ones due to herd mentality. If someone dislikes viper changes and makes a post they are going to have other people who are either going to disagree with them or agree with them post. Then it turns into an echo chamber because there is no outlet or summation to conclude the conversation. Typically, people talk about things because they want action done so a confirmation of inaction or action is generally all that is needed to conclude the conversation.

However, there's no community management on this forum nor a direct line to give feedback on the game anymore. Sure, they have moderators but what is the point of moderation if there is no person to conclude the conversation?

So my own conclusion is that the forums are a relic of FFXIV's original development and are only kept around for legacy purposes.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

So my own conclusion is that the forums are a relic of FFXIV's original development and are only kept around for legacy purposes.

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Welp. That stung. Truth hurts I suppose, but that stung.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

It's weird because at one moment, 14 feels dead as hell. Maybe not in people afking, but like when you try to engage socially or try to be civil, this game is a corpse. I'm not talking about the 1000k people in a zone breaking the hunt train. I'm talking about the game. The queued up for frontline or msq or leveling. That game is dead. Anti-social. Anti new player, whatever you want to call it. Either out of contept or fear from moderation, this game is socially dead. Sure, your FC or your friend group are lovely, but your average player doesn't care.

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That really isn't the case at all.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Your average party member is just in it for the reward. The joy of doing it is dead.

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People have been motivated by rewards since the inception of the genre. Nobody was camping NMs for hours in FFXI for the "joy of doing it," they were doing it for the drops. That doesn't mean you can't still have fun and be social as well, which is very much still the case in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

I didn't buy Dawntrail because I didn't like how it looked and didn't have faith in the developers, I was going to wait. And sadly I was right, I'm not satisfied with what I'm seeing in gameplay or narrative.

My bf got it, hated it, and ended up putting it down at a certain point where you have to walk around a big empty places turning off things. He went back to playing WoW, even. Which is bad. He isn't a long time WoW player or anything either, but I also think I'm going to check it out too to play with him instead of on FFXIV.

So, how about a reverse exodus? To anywhere really, any game you'd rather play than Dawntrail. May as well make it a boycott. No sense in wasting my time forcing myself to play something I don't care for like Dawntrail. The FFXIV fanbase is pretty blindly loyal though.

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I think this is exactly what you all should do!! I've kinda hated this community since the WoW players came over :)

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Originally Posted by Dante131

you know that you dont have to buy expansions beside of the new one right ?

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I did say I had no idea, so no, I didn't know.

I'm gonna try WoW now after 20 years but only because I heard they have dragon people now

I'm probably going to hop over to FFXI, I'll still do raid content here, but the MSQ is just horrible this expansion, I'd rather listen to a fork scratching a plate than sit through anymore of the MSQ if Wuk lamat is involved.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

It’s funny because the WoW community is currently complaining about the state of the pre-patch and what can be expected from TWW.

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Doomerism is, generally, the dominant mode on all social media about everything. While this forum is a doomer dumpster fire, that's not at all unique to FF14.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Doomerism is, generally, the dominant mode on all social media about everything. While this forum is a doomer dumpster fire, that's not at all unique to FF14.

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Every GD is a dumpster fire.

I think FFXIV is entering it's enshittification arc. It's the cycle of so many nice products and services in the world, unfortunately. All there is to do is hope that the company sees the warning signs and chances course, or abandon ship to another new online service while its still good and see how long you can ride that one out before it too gets enshittified.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

Anyone remember hanging around WoW's General Discussion forums in early MoP when everyone was talking about how the dumb pandas were for babies and MoP was going to kill WoW? And how it's now one of the most beloved expansions and no one seems to recall how absolutely reviled it was at the time?

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New expac bad, old expac good has been the meme for a while. Expect to see Shadowlands in a similar light (people already tried to do it in Dragonflight).

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

That really isn't the case at all.



People have been motivated by rewards since the inception of the genre. Nobody was camping NMs for hours in FFXI for the "joy of doing it," they were doing it for the drops. That doesn't mean you can't still have fun and be social as well, which is very much still the case in FFXIV.

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Camping nms back in the day might have been "boring" and not fun but at least the community and making new friends and talking to people is what made things fun and made the wait more tolerable then it would be if we had a similar system in ff14 where no one really seems to want to talk unless your in a discord call or server because no one wants to use in game chat in games anymore.

Look, pal. FFXIV is the most popular and critically-acclaimed MMO ever made with over 30 million players, it has 3x the players as WoW for a reason. The story is so good and it made me cry a dozen times. Also, don't you remember all that stuff from Cata and WoD? Like, they had this patch about 15 years ago and I didn't like it so I never went back. TERRIBLE! And remember those scandals?? No thanks! FFXIV stands on the right side of history. Go ahead and find something bad that FFXIV did 14 years ago. I'll wait. Exactly, you can't pay us to go back to WoW. Because whether you like it or not, FFXIV is a movement, not just a game. We stand opposed to corporations like Activision-Blizzard who make games for profit. The whole reason why FFXIV exists is to fight Blizzard for what they did with garrisons and the jailer. I'm still SO MAD AT THAT THING THEY DID 20 YEARS AGO, I'M SO ANGRY I CAN'T GET OVER IT! THEY DID A THING 20 YEARS AGO AND I STILL HATE IT. WE DON'T FORGIVE AND WE DON'T FORGET. SPEEEEEEEEEEEN

I mean l found gw2 during ew before the 6.1 pvp patch. Nothing wrong with trying another game. gw2 Is a great secondary game.
Also, l found this game because activision kept annoying me with their decision with cod. So Go ahead and try something new.
I like dt,. I love the second dye channel. I don't regret it

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

I mean l found gw2 during ew before the 6.1 pvp patch. Nothing wrong with trying another game. gw2 Is a great secondary game.
Also, l found this game because activision kept annoying me with their decision with cod. So Go ahead and try something new.
I like dt,. I love the second dye channel. I don't regret it

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I should really give GW2 another shot. I got necro to 80 and haven't touched it since launch.

Except MoP was always bad. Dawntrail is only bad because SBI took over production.

As a WoW player, I will say that unfortunately, the MSQ in that game has gotten worse and worse. You're more tied to completing it for certain progressions and features to be unlocked at endgame when previously, you just had to level to max and do raids and heroics without ever interacting with the story. And if you think FF14 has gotten more "woke", WoW has been there since BFA. Forced cutscenes and NPC interactions. You're going to be talking and walking with NPCs just like you did in FF14. And if that is not enough, the new expansion about to come out has even MORE of that. You have to interact with all the new diversity NPCs, and you do not get a say in skipping the quests. You have to sit there and literally "listen" as an objective. And just like DT, they are recycling models and landscapes for their new zones. It's rather sad really.

On the plus side, the combat and dungeons in that game are at least more fun. You just have to suffer past all the bad things I note. It really has gotten bad which is sad cause WoW could be a good game.

YoshiP literally said play when you're having fun, quit when you're not and play something else, come back if you think you see something you'd enjoy again.

I'm glad you're following his advice?

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

YoshiP literally said play when you're having fun, quit when you're not and play something else, come back if you think you see something you'd enjoy again.

I'm glad you're following his advice?

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Thanks! I don't know why you're confused though, given by the question mark.
I dont need to be told by yoshida to do that though, seems normal to me. I think the fanbase is so hardcore loyal and toxic about it that he had to say it though so you all dont rip each other to shreds.

I just play both anyway, taking breaks from one another.

While I do wish XIV had way more gameplay/battle content I dunno how anyone can just play one game.

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

I just play both anyway, taking breaks from one another.

While I do wish XIV had way more gameplay/battle content I dunno how anyone can just play one game.

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agree i play wow 14 and guild wars2 sometimes. But because i am doing it i would like 14 to adjust a bit and not beeing this old style 2012 mmo anymore :/

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Originally Posted by Mapleine

I dunno how anyone can just play one game.

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I play only 1...
https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...puw/giphy.webp

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Camping nms back in the day might have been "boring" and not fun but at least the community and making new friends and talking to people is what made things fun and made the wait more tolerable then it would be if we had a similar system in ff14 where no one really seems to want to talk unless your in a discord call or server because no one wants to use in game chat in games anymore.

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Well I can't speak for your experience but that hasn't been my experience with the game at any point. I can arrive at any populated area right now and start chatting with people and making friends. It's not difficult.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Well I can't speak for your experience but that hasn't been my experience with the game at any point. I can arrive at any populated area right now and start chatting with people and making friends. It's not difficult.

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From my 11 years of playing ff14 no one seems to want to talk or be social unless it's the rp community or it at least seems to have been that way when discord became the norm to talk. Before discord became a thing people would always talk in game and have random conversations which don't seem to happen anymore unless I'm just unlucky.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

From my 11 years of playing ff14 no one seems to want to talk or be social unless it's the rp community or it at least seems to have been that way when discord became the norm to talk. Before discord became a thing people would always talk in game and have random conversations which don't seem to happen anymore unless I'm just unlucky.

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nah i had a lot of talking earlier but then suddenly square adjusted the tos so that you can report everybody who is hurt your feefees with a simple hay whats up...After this many people told me in private they will never write in the in game chat again. I cant say if it speaks for everybody but i does for me since i got in GM jail for explaining how a tank swap works

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Originally Posted by Dante131

nah i had a lot of talking earlier but then suddenly square adjusted the tos so that you can report everybody who is hurt your feefees with a simple hay whats up...After this many people told me in private they will never write in the in game chat again. I cant say if it speaks for everybody but i does for me since i got in GM jail for explaining how a tank swap works

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I use to have a lot on ingame interactions then in stormblood it seemed to have started dying down but just assumed it was either tos changes so people only talked in discord or various other reasons.

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

I use to have a lot on ingame interactions then in stormblood it seemed to have started dying down but just assumed it was either tos changes so people only talked in discord or various other reasons.

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yeah i mean its just a guess. i think everyone have their reasons not to talk ingame but its a bit sad that really noone is writing anything. Rarely some explain a boss or something but i can understand everyone who just follow the wise advice of never write in the chat if you want to keep your account. This is on SE for the tos and peeps in the community who "abuse" it

Inshallah Blizzard will never get another cent from me, what they did to Arthas in Shadowlands was unforgivable.

Or you can just play WoW without trying to get people to mass exit FFXIV. It's okay to not like the current expansion. It's okay to like WoW. It's not okay to come to the forums to try to get people to mass exit. That's just bad form. If people want to leave, they can leave. That's it, it's not that deep.

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Originally Posted by Lazariah

Or you can just play WoW without trying to get people to mass exit FFXIV. It's okay to not like the current expansion. It's okay to like WoW. It's not okay to come to the forums to try to get people to mass exit. That's just bad form. If people want to leave, they can leave. That's it, it's not that deep.

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Yeah, people shouldnt *try* to get others to leave the game. They should all just play what they enjoy. But it's okay to talk about it when we do.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Yeah, people shouldnt *try* to get others to leave the game. They should all just play what they enjoy. But it's okay to talk about it when we do.

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I mean it's fine to talk constructive criticism. To talk about why you're leaving is useful. But the person who started this thread isn't that.

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Originally Posted by Lazariah

Or you can just play WoW without trying to get people to mass exit FFXIV. It's okay to not like the current expansion. It's okay to like WoW. It's not okay to come to the forums to try to get people to mass exit. That's just bad form. If people want to leave, they can leave. That's it, it's not that deep.

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But doesn't Naoki Yoshida want that? He said we should play other games. And given the state of Final Fantasy XIV, it seems odd that people would intentionally disobey the director if his advice solves the problems that we're facing. According to Yoshida, it's not a "mass exodus", it's "respecting your time", and I think that Dawntrial is the expansion that's most respectful of our time because it encourages us to go play other games.

Besides, isn't this whole "loyalty" thing what Blizzard does? And you hate Blizzard, right?