#WukLamatMustDie

Can't edit. She does just her nephew run a entire city state never did she considered harm that might cause she install child as leader just as Alexander did to Sphene which harm Sphene she wasn't given time grow up what of people now suffer withdrawal for soul devices and death of family and lost of memory how is their help them the people happiness is meaningless if the city state people don't know who there or how run they city state

Her people could enslaved them they happy that all that matters and she turn and ignore it all to people happiness. Her people happiness could turn her into the villain if it becomes all she care about

In fact that a great way of changing my Wuk Lamar slowed in slave the people of solutions nine they service a purpose turn them into a servant class the WoL realized she unfit to lead and opposed her aswell she then banned the scion and WoL for yet the people slowly realize that WoL is right Wuk Lamar has be put down as they leader

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

I present a slightly different take.

Snip

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This is my favourite take to be honest.

Adding my own perspective to this I think Wuk Lamat isn't an inherently terrible character. I liked her in the 6.5.8 patch. The patch itself was really bad of course because setting up DT in a sub patch was a really poor decision. But at that point we were only presented with Wuk Lamat as a character premise. And this premise could have become a very enjoyable character if they had just gone differently about her writing.

I think reducing the intense focus on her to give the story as a whole and other characters besides her more room to breathe and unfold would also have made her better. If other characters are more complex Wuk can also have more complex interactions with them.
They should also have had more genuine moments of failure and reflection as learning experiences.

Lastly I also think they should have handled her world view differently. A big problem in my eyes is that, with most players being adults, and a rather notable portion probably being 30+ by now, we probably have a world view that is a lot more mature than that of the average shounen anime teenage protagonist. Even if we are optimists, many people's optimism is a lot more realistic. And then there are many of us who are just plain realists, pessimists, disillusioned or cynical.
So for many of us, Wuk's repetitive "peace is good" attitude will feel childish and simple-minded because it's just shallow "Because I say so"-moralising without any actual substance that demonstrates proper understanding of what war, peace and conflict between cultures means.

So all in all, I don't think the starting trope of an insecure big mouth that needs to find herself and her place in the world (and that may very well be the throne of Tural) while trying to achieve something that is too big for her at the beginning of the story is a bad one.
You can successfully write the arc of such a character growing into the person she needs to be to achieve the feat that was previously impossible for her.

Wuk had everything she needed to be a good character.
As everything else with Dawntrail the writers just decided to...not use it and instead just completely undermine her potential with their abysmal writing.
As if they were handed good concepts, somebody said "Challenge time: turn this idea into the worst possible story you can come up with" and the writers eagerly accepted...

I don't think Wuk should literally or metaphorically die. If they vastly improve her writing with those three points I'd give her a chance again (though I don't think this will happen because then patch Wuk's characterisation would have to be inconsistent with 7.0 Wuk and they probably don't want to do that).

But if this is not the case I'd prefer if her presence is reduced. I wouldn't care about a random cameo here and there because in those cases she would by defition not be the hyper-focus of the story.

I just don't want a repetition of what happened in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

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Agree.
I think the biggest question Yoshida and his devs need to ask themselves is:
“For whom do we want to make FF14 the next ten years?”

If the answer is
“for the fans and players from all those years before” then they need to go back to the old worldview of Etherys.
It was gritty, it was grey but with an underlying message of “we can overcome this if we work together “
I don’t say they shouldn’t shake things up and take risks but there are other places to do that like sidequests or Raid storylines.

If the answer is
“for new players and a younger audience” then they have to spell that out clear and open so everyone knows what to expect and if they should quit or if they are ready to go along that new direction.

Can both sides swap? Yes.
A longtime fan can still like the DT story telling and a new fan can come in because of DT but still like the old stories better.
I would think though that the majority has their view and expectations and don’t really want to stray from it.

The writing can be criticized and it deserves it but over everything there sit the higher ups like Yoshida.
This direction ultimately comes from him and his team and I don’t believe he didn’t knew what this expansion is.
He gave his ok probably in best faith and really thinking this would be the correct way.

FF14 was always a game with shonen tendencies but even Shonen can have a deeper and better writing than DT and it has proven that before.

Mary Sue has become the biggest writer trop today in desire appease the culture left the Mary Sue. The best way to deal with is to break it. See this may be goal of SE the western FFXIV has a Wuk Lamar. Then when they eye turn elsewhere make her the villain. A villain can have best desire but if she does at except of others it still evil

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

Her people could enslaved them they happy that all that matters and she turn and ignore it all to people happiness. Her people happiness could turn her into the villain if it becomes all she care about

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Taking 'protecting my peoples happiness' to horrifying extremes was what they did with Sphene in order to contrast her with Wuk Lamat. It'd just be boring, lazy and out of nowhere if they flipped a switch and did a 180 with Wuk Lamat.

I get it, people don't like her, but that doesn't mean suddenly spinning her into a villain would make the story good. Especially if not handled by a better writing team.

Go outside

Wuk Lamat doesn't need to die, she just needs less screen time, and to be humbled.

Killing Wuk Lamat actually highlights an even worse problem - The Scion's plot armor. Everyone dies around them and they never die even when they should have (looking at you Ysh). There's only so many times they can pull that and we're nearing the limit.

Now, if you have Wuk Lamat try to befriend a foreign entity only to have it take advantage of her good nature then horribly betray her by killing people she's close to (like Koana), then you'd get a massive chance to have her mature fully into the role of a leader.

Why Koana? No one else is really built up to be as meaningful to her as him. If it were someone else they'd need to build that person up first which is fine, but don't kill random guard B or newly introduced cousin C then expect me or for that matter Wuk Lamat to really care.

How does this avoid Scion plot armor? Simple, you don't have the WoL or the Scions present. You have a fight, Koana is bleeding out before Wuk Lamat's eyes, and you play as Wuk Lamat to save him. She isn't fast enough, he passes away, she's left with regret, guilt, and the "what if" scenarios because there was a chance to save him. She's also filled with anger, like pure rage (we've done despair in EW), and it is up to the WoL to help guide her through that rage using their experience with Nidhogg to help.

Hell! You could bring Wuk Lamat to Ishgard, walk her through Nidhogg's story, the story of what you get from pure rage, have her speak with Hraesvelgr and Haurchefant's brother who can speak to how his brother's death devastated his father, and finally you can introduce her to our boy Aymeric, a man who had to put aside his own rage / bias for a friend in prefer to bring people together and rule.

This would actually be really good.... Please do this.

I'd be happier if she just fell into obscurity. Not even because I think wanting her death is overreacting, but seriously--we all know that if Wuk Lamat died it would completely command yet another scene.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Taking 'protecting my peoples happiness' to horrifying extremes was what they did with Sphene in order to contrast her with Wuk Lamat. It'd just be boring, lazy and out of nowhere if they flipped a switch and did a 180 with Wuk Lamat.

I get it, people don't like her, but that doesn't mean suddenly spinning her into a villain would make the story good. Especially if not handled by a better writing team.

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Honestly? I think the reality is Wuk Lamat missed the decent into the underworld portion of the Heroes Journey. I think she needs to have a colossal failure and disappear similar to how Gaius did and return so that we can get some exposure to her in a more controlled enviroment as side content similar to how folks did the Weapon chain in SB.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

Wuk Lamat doesn't need to die, she just needs less screen time, and to be humbled.

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Don't worry, she will.

What I'm concerned for is that after Zero and Wuk Lamat, having the WoL in the background and focus the story on a single character became the "core" of every story told.
I'm absolutely not concerned about Wuk Lamat role in the futur, she will suffer Aymeric and Lyse fate, world-leader that we just meet time to time but no longer relevant in the story being told.

I want Wuk Lamat's death just to spite the writers (cos its obviously their super beloved pet) call it my revenge for making me Wuk Lamat's personal cheerleader for 40 hours

Too bad it wont happen :/

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

Pretty sure Wuk tempered this entire forum with how obsessed you all are over her...

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You must not have gotten to the tempering cutscene. You'll need to talk to Wuk Lamat again to continue the questline.

LMAO
Wuk is fine the main issue is she gets too much screentime.
People complained the same about Zero and she didn't have anywhere near as much screentime
You will forget Wuk when we leave Tural and she goes the way of Aymeric/Hien/GC Leaders, relegated to unvoiced roles and side content.

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Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

LMAO
Wuk is fine the main issue is she gets too much screentime.
People complained the same about Zero and she didn't have anywhere near as much screentime
You will forget Wuk when we leave Tural and she goes the way of Aymeric/Hien/GC Leaders, relegated to unvoiced roles and side content.

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I guess all relatively speaking. Zero never bothered me, although for those that don't want to have a supporting role of any sort I get the argument. Wuk Lamat does, though.

Honestly even if Wuk Lamat falls into obscurity I'll never be happy that Krile was done dirty :(

Not related to Wuk Lamat, but I wonder if OP and everyone who believed we were going to get a "vacation" and a "low-stakes adventure" were the same people who completely misunderstood and thought that we were going to go around kicking puppies and being evil in Shadowbringers.

Not sure how that would even be compelling enough to draw people for a whole expansion.

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Originally Posted by Morphiana

Killing Wuk Lamat actually highlights an even worse problem - The Scion's plot armor. Everyone dies around them and they never die even when they should have (looking at you Ysh). There's only so many times they can pull that and we're nearing the limit.

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Uhm ... you know the Scion has seen several casualties right?

Milfinia? Moenbryda was invited but died before the could join. Papalymo?

I think you're confusing "they never die" with "I want to see one of them die every expansion" or "I want this specific character to die".

About Y'stola I'm pretty sure she's often put in that situation on purpose, it's the cat joke.

Giver her to us as a trial or something. I am all aboard killing her as a Boss or something. Maybe we can let the Story turn in a way that she can't handle the pressure of being the Ruler after all and turns crazy. Then we can remove her from the FFXIV World and let her Brother rule.

personally, I think killing her off is kinda overkill but I do see the story potentials for it. Like, what if Wuk was tragically taken out and then Koda had to take full leadership? It would be kinda the reverse of the Dawnbreakers position for the last few years, instead of the Head of Reasoning being silent, the head of resolve is the quiet one. What happens then? and that is just a quick thought with it haha

I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't rewrite the entire Dawntrail MSQ because I think the general outline of the story is fine, but it absolutely should have some alterations done. For example, all the "talk to these 3 NPCs" quests? Cut. The infamous "The Promise of Peace" quest? Cut or changed to be Krile instead, I could even live with it being Wuk Lamat, but it should be instead her having a crisis and serious doubts about trying to become the Dawnservant when she has little to offer besides peace over the other contenders.

The biggest changes however should be the second half, Wuk Lamat absolutely should NOT have gone with us to the dome. Easiest way to write this to make sense is for her to have been injured during the invasion so she would have been forced to do diplomacy instead of Koana, who should have been the one to come with us. There is no need to even mention Wuk Lamat part of the final trial, that is an easy cut.

I wonder if the people who support this thread just wake up every day angry at some videogame character cuz they weren't written like they wanted it.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I wonder if the people who support this thread just wake up every day angry at some videogame character cuz they weren't written like they wanted it.

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While I don't much support killing her or the wording of the thread title... yes I am angry.

Because I care for the story and the usual story telling of the writers.
Instead I got this half baked childrens book.

Being angry if something you care about is just not good anymore is completely human.
It's the same with all hobbies and entertainment. Surely you also had stuff in the past were it made you angry that it was drastically changed?

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

While I don't much support killing her or the wording of the thread title... yes I am angry.

Because I care for the story and the usual story telling of the writers.
Instead I got this half baked childrens book.

Being angry if someone you care about is just not good anymore is completely human.
It's the same with all hobbies and entertainment. Surely you also had stuff in the past were it made you angry that it was drastically changed?

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I don't feel very strongly about the character myself, but...

Putting the whole weight and flaws of the expansion on a single character is kind of silly, especially when all the complaints about her character feel half-baked, and border on bigotry.

You're entitled to your feelings, but this is either a rot-brain obsession or a weird chud agenda and I don't like either of that for our community.

Please don't kill her. I don't want to spend the next 10 years looking at Wuk memorials. I've gotten enough "hear, feel, think" quotes to last me a lifetime. I don't need everyone talking about how they love peace and happiness in an attempt to memorialize her.

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Originally Posted by Lady_Silvermoon

Please don't kill her. I don't want to spend the next 10 years looking at Wuk memorials. I've gotten enough "hear, feel, think" quotes to last me a lifetime. I don't need everyone talking about how they love peace and happiness in an attempt to memorialize her.

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Wuk Lamat, the new Ghost Nappa -shudders-

VEEEGEEEETTTAAA

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I wonder if the people who support this thread just wake up every day angry at some videogame character cuz they weren't written like they wanted it.

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I'm more upset that anytime I get the trial in my roulettes I have to deal with "sphene! listen to me!" shouted in lowercase.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I don't feel very strongly about the character myself, but...

Putting the whole weight and flaws of the expansion on a single character is kind of silly, especially when all the complaints about her character feel half-baked, and border on bigotry.

You're entitled to your feelings, but this is either a rot-brain obsession or a weird chud agenda and I don't like either of that for our community.

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Not all complaints are half-baked or border on bigotry. That's just deflecting of criticism. There are more then enough good takes like "she had too much story focus" or "her flaws are too shallow, instead of having sea-sickness, why not make her extremely extrovert self a weakness that is mentioned".

Feeling strongly about a hobby is not an "rot-brain-obsession" or an agenda.
You complain about the thread but just throw out insults on the same level of that thread-title.

This is the only part of the voice acting for Wuk Lamat that I dislike.

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Originally Posted by St0rmy

I'm more upset that anytime I get the trial in my roulettes I have to deal with "sphene! listen to me!" shouted in lowercase.

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This is only part of the acting I dislike about Wuk Lamat. Outside that she’s leagues above Alyse and Hien in terms of written character.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

Not all complaints are half-baked or border on bigotry. That's just deflecting of criticism. There are more then enough good takes like "she had too much story focus" or "her flaws are too shallow, instead of having sea-sickness, why not make her extremely extrovert self a weakness that is mentioned".

Feeling strongly about a hobby is not an "rot-brain-obsession" or an agenda.
You complain about the thread but just throw out insults on the same level of that thread-title.

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No no, I mean it when I say it's a rot-brain obsession, because the thread and many threads I've seen you in, are on how we should eliminate this character so completely we should ask yoshi p to remake the story without her. Alphie and a lot of characters were kind of boring in ARR, and yet, they got 5 other expansions to develop and have arcs to fully flesh out their characters.

However Wuk Lamat and by extension, Lyse, who could definetly use more time and arcs don't get that grace, not from the community at least.

And I say it's a rot-brain obsession because the forum has 1000 threads about hating her, about bringing the community together to hate her, and spout the worst amount of takes towards her.

There isn't criticisim here, not in a way to that can help develop the character, it's just outright hatred.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

No no, I mean it when I say it's a rot-brain obsession, because the thread and many threads I've seen you in, are on how we should eliminate this character so completely we should ask yoshi p to remake the story without her. Alphie and a lot of characters were kind of boring in ARR, and yet, they got 5 other expansions to develop and have arcs to fully flesh out their characters.

However Wuk Lamat and by extension, Lyse, who could definetly could use more time and arcs don't get that grace, not from the community at least.

And I say it's a rot-brain obsession because the forum has 1000 threads about hating her, about bringing the community together to hate her, and spout the worst amount of takes towards her.

There isn't criticisim here, not in a way to that can help develop the character, it's just outright hatred.

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Eh, no. Just because I comment in those threads doesn't mean I agree with everything there, it's just a mini discussion in a thread most of the times. Alone in this topic here are quite a number of people who disagree with OP's take.
You can show me a comment where I wanted them to rewrite the story without her or that I want them to kill her outright? At best I probably said somewhere that I don't really care if she meets her end or something, nothing more.

Just because this thread here is overdramatic letters doesn't mean there aren't others out there that aren't.
I agree that there are too much topics about the story right now and that all should be focused on three threads maybe but that's another topic in itself.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

No no, I mean it when I say it's a rot-brain obsession, because the thread and many threads I've seen you in, are on how we should eliminate this character so completely we should ask yoshi p to remake the story without her. Alphie and a lot of characters were kind of boring in ARR, and yet, they got 5 other expansions to develop and have arcs to fully flesh out their characters.

However Wuk Lamat and by extension, Lyse, who could definetly use more time and arcs don't get that grace, not from the community at least.

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There's difference between Wuk Lamat and all the other mentioned characters. Everyone else never hogged all the screen time and got constantly pushed in your face, with no way of escaping. Every other character eventually went off to do their own things off-screen, while the player went adventuring.

We go through a full expansion of Wuk Lamat basically being the main character, from wanting to be Dawnservant to actually accomplishing her goal. If in that entire time you can't accomplish to give her some character growth (no, overcoming her fear of Lamas and getting random powers boosts doesn't count), then I am not willing to sit through another 30+ hours for them to fix a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Let's move on, keep her being busy on the throne, and let us finally experience the adventure that we didn't get in Dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

However Wuk Lamat and by extension, Lyse, who could definetly use more time and arcs don't get that grace, not from the community at least.

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You're seriously asking for WL to get even more time? For real?

Alyse and Hien are league above Wuk Sue. first her ideal are wrong too happiness is important but safety and security are more important. a leader who cares about these thing will be less likely to go to war with other nation a leader who care about these thing will be will more like look interest the food supply work with faction inside they nation to keep the peace for inter faction fighting. for safety and security happiness come if all people are safety and security they less likely to take up arm against they neighbor or you. this were she fail lyse and hien understood this both because they were denied these things as children. so they fought like hell for they people to have them. leader who face hardship make the best leader they who face challange become stronger for it. this why Hien and lyse are better the Wuk Sue they face they share of hardship and came out better for it. Wuk Sue didn't she got everything hand to by more expreince fighter the WoL what should happen really is WoL should just been moderator in fight watch each canidate guide them give them council be a neutral councilor. take her blood thrist brother the WoL should have challange him to a fight to first blood and beat him and leave him to reflect of his lesson point out to him it by WoL skill that there is peace in west it by her hand they waring is at end if he threat the peace she or he will stomp him to the mud let him learn for that. humiliated build character

This is not a rage bait or troll thread. This is a thread to voice the dissatisfaction of the many players who have been using the forums and gathering information for the horrific MSQ experience. As you can see from the resource section, I wouldn’t have been able to make my statement if not for the many who had the displeasure to go through with suffering from Wuk Lamat throughout the whole story and then more from side content.

Due to the worries of our voice not being heard, I took a stand to create this thread to hopefully raise our anguish for the ears of the content creators and YoshiP. It is not just my word that you agree with, but your fellow players who have gone through the trouble of gathering information through their discussion on the forums. If I were to fight this fight, it was because you all have been fighting this fight for me and your many brethren. Day by day, more examples are brought to light. Of the ones I chose, it was due to the word limit of the forum else I’d add more to the initial post.

So it should be that we scream our sorrow to the world so that it will answer us. If YoshiP rejects the notion of our displeasure, then we will know where we must go from there. If the path he wishes to take is one that will hurt us, then we should walk away and let him learn alone what he has forgotten. Tell your friends, your family, and companions alike to not be afraid to request for a better story, experience, and game. Shout out to the world… #WukLamatMustDie !

A bit theatrical, but it’s more fun to read and write that way. Whether you wish she dies, or just be gone, we should all work together to make YoshiP hear us. If you wish to argue back, please do so and give us your statement, reasoning, and selection of resources to prove your point and not just name call the side that is not happy with our current situation.

These are the voices of your fellow players who are dissatisfied with Dawntrail:

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Originally Posted by SwadTheFrog

Yeah, VAing so bad it made me sign up on the forums just to add my voice to it. Kind of incredibly insulting to have my own culture be represented by an american putting on a really fake accent. As an actual native speaker of both portuguese and spanish, I cringed with every line. And I was excited to finally have some South America love.

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Originally Posted by SwadTheFrog

As a South American, I sure did love having my culture reduced to "MEZCAL AND TACOS". Oh, and funny very colorful clothes - literally goddamn everyone in this supposedly "diverse" city dresses in one way - that being traditional Andean wear. Really good, really inclusive. Absolutely not COMICALLY insulting at all.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

I‘m doing some sidequests right now and enjoy them but…
Man Wuk Lamat is mentioned in quite a number of them in one form or the other.

It’s getting really, really annoying at this point. No matter the character I can‘t imagine anyone being happy with this much.
Imagine if Cayde in Destiny was treated like that (not that destiny has a story in game)...

Every character who mentions her loves her, praises her and almost never mentions Koana.
I would laugh if it wasn‘t so sad.

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Listen to Me! w/ Zepla

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Originally Posted by Barachim

There's difference between Wuk Lamat and all the other mentioned characters. Everyone else never hogged all the screen time and got constantly pushed in your face, with no way of escaping. Every other character eventually went off to do their own things off-screen, while the player went adventuring.

We go through a full expansion of Wuk Lamat basically being the main character, from wanting to be Dawnservant to actually accomplishing her goal. If in that entire time you can't accomplish to give her some character growth (no, overcoming her fear of Lamas and getting random powers boosts doesn't count), then I am not willing to sit through another 30+ hours for them to fix a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Let's move on, keep her being busy on the throne, and let us finally experience the adventure that we didn't get in Dawntrail.

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I mean I can go here and debate you on whethever she had character growth or not, but that's not the point I am trying to make. This weird circlejerk you guys have around hating a single character is off-putting, it's pure brainrot. How often do we have to make posts about hating a character and nodding to each other and keep investing in fanning the flames?

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

You're seriously asking for WL to get even more time? For real?

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Sure, if they make a new more compelling arc, why not? I don't have a hate boner for her.

Posts like this are why I believe the Wuk haters are wrong. This is such a reach, I just can't take it seriously.

*sigh*

Can we please bring down the hyperbole here? What is up with this hashtag thing? I'm not a Wuk Lamat fan but I don't want the team to literally kill her character over it, that's ridiculous. She shouldn't have been nearly as prominent in the second half and needed to share the spotlight better, but she is not the end-all-be-all problem with the abysmal writing in Dawntrail, just a symptom of the broader problem with flat characters and lazy world building.