how well did SE represent your cultures in dawntrail?

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

They list SE as a client, and we know they worked on Forspoken. Still haven't seen any confirmation that they worked on Dawntrail specifically though.

This all seems kind of conspiratorial, no? If you were SE wouldn't it make more sense to just hire a different consulting firm if SBI has such a bad rap that you have to hide the fact that they worked on your game?

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Dawntrail development started a long while ago, before SBI had their horrible reputation. Kind of hard to restart and rework the whole MSQ and development when you're about 6-9 months from launch date, much eaiser for SBI to say "just edit the credits out, and we'll not claim it." Plus, remember, extortion tactics. "Use OUR services OR ELSE." I've said in other post of mine, I'm fine with such consulting companies and such as a whole, as long as they do it right. SBI on the other hand, they are the worst. They are openly bigoted, violent, and downright corrupt.

Plus, from a "DEI consultant" standpoint, does it make any sense at all SBI wouldn't be involved? Dawntrail is literally about "DEI" Learning of others cultures, heritage, being diverse and inclusive of everyone (except one of course). Plus, when it comes to money and "sending the message", why on earth wouldn't they want to be involved in SE's largest most lucrative IP that has one of the LARGEST audience's in the world? It doesn't make any sense for them NOT to be involved, but it does make sense why they wouldn't want people to KNOW they were involved, do to recent public backlash at their... "practices".

I don't have a problem with a lot of things, but I DO have a problem with SBI specifically. When one of the employees openly admits she refuses to hire white people cause of skin color. When the CO-FOUNDER literally says publicly "If game developers say no, go have a cup of coffee, and TERRIFY THEM IF THEY DON'T GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT." (Which they did with Black Myth : Wukong. As soon as that developer said "No, i'm not hiring you", Kotaku wrote a hit piece slandering them as sexist.) Another tries to get a guy fired from his job cause they had a disagreement (Kris Kindred). There is tons of examples where they openly admit they hate white people, gamers, and use every mafia tactic in the book to get what they want.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

Sweet Baby Inc. is the "Consultant Company" they hired. They've been involved in many of SE's titles now, and have SE listed as clients. That's why "representation" sucks in DT, and is more akin to "Tourist Level". Sweet Baby Inc. only has surface knowledge of anything other than African American and LGBTQ++ pandering, while falsely claiming to be "experts" in others, while also spread a message of hatred toward "CiS Gender white people" most of all "Straight White Male Gamers", which apparently are the literal incarnation of Satan to them.

Side Note : I loved Coco. Mostly when abuelita asked "Do you want some more Temales?" and he says "No, gracias". Abuelita says "I ASKED IF YOU WANT SOME MORE TEMALES?!" and he goes "Si, gracias" and Abuelita says "That's what I thought you said!" That is a trick question, when abuelita ask if you want more temales, she's not asking if you want more temales period, she's asking HOW MANY more you want. You do not get to say no more.

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Was it confirmed they used SBI for DT? I know SQEX used them for other titles, and there's been a lot of speculation, but until there's an actual confirmation that they were the actual consultants used, then I'll hold off. If they were confirmed to be used, I'll probably sell my FC house and take an extended break.

Sidenote about coco: My favorite is when his abuela pulled out la chancla to scare off the mariachis. I laughed and had minor PTSD.

It's either SBI or Kate, because Kate was the one who hired Sena and Luis and those two have a thing of hating white people on their twitter. Kate knew all of this and hired Sena specifically for Wuk Lamat. It may not be SBI but Kate does seem to share their ideology and talking about putting the progressive stuff into the writing, and that's why we have they/them fairies when they have genders in the JP version. Kate is also the lore person and look what happened; Kate became extremely racist and made the culture about tacos after spouting about diversity. If it wasn't Kate then it's SBI, it can't really be anything else. It all comes back to lore, so it has to be one of those two that did the work.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

and that's why we have they/them fairies when they have genders in the JP version.

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That’s because of the languages we have, only English has acceptable non-binary pronouns. In French and German at least, Titania is still referred to with a masculine title (monarque and könig) despite looking extremely feminine so it’s not like it’s not there.

I don't see any hint of dei I played all through twice or make white the villain. What do I see the AI is evil family can betray each. American is melting pot different cultures realized. You want read stuff a orange hair young man shot blond corrupt lawman. See this reflect on two politician. Second if the whole western alot this reflect on Americans tried work with native Americans. Dei man be tried push their influence but they get spit in face when they do. It to early in expansion to tell. Plus assissan creed hasn't dropped I doubt dei will have much power after it drop. A gay black samurai

I for to much it gay Muslim black samurai. So if who works SE may cost themselves they job dei only work till offended the you and your culture

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I don't see any hint of dei I played all through twice or make white the villain. What do I see the AI is evil family can betray each. American is melting pot different cultures realized. You want read stuff a orange hair young man shot blond corrupt lawman. See this reflect on two politician. Second if the whole western alot this reflect on Americans tried work with native Americans. Dei man be tried push their influence but they get spit in face when they do. It to early in expansion to tell. Plus assissan creed hasn't dropped I doubt dei will have much power after it drop. A gay black samurai

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I for to much it gay Muslim black samurai. So if who works SE may cost themselves they job dei only work till offended the you and your culture

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https://i.imgflip.com/eo62r.jpg?a477984

Are you okay?

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

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Got it, you have no proof and are just making stuff up. If you have proof I would love to see it because that would be a bit of a problem for me that SE would trust their cash cow's story of 10 years to an outside source and would make me question a lot of the decisions from the top and from Yoshida himself.

They really represented my shard traveling mini race well... and my wife said their representation of native bunny tribes was first class >_>

I points dei won't be issue in FFXIV after assissan creed shadow because it will offended the Japanese. One thing don't mess with someone culture or history if it is a problem right now

I also pointed out the version of yosuka will insult the Japanese. Yosuka is see as coward who refuses to commit speku twice chosen exile instead of it. Any attempt to make him honorable will be deserved to the Japanese

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Got it, you have no proof and are just making stuff up. If you have proof I would love to see it because that would be a bit of a problem for me that SE would trust their cash cow's story of 10 years to an outside source and would make me question a lot of the decisions from the top and from Yoshida himself.

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Got it, you're ignorant either because you don't think, or have investment in SBI and DEI. Again, my proof is SE is listed as a client and Yoshi P said he hired a "Consulting Group". Do you have anything other than "Uhh, yeah they didn't list FFXIV SPECIFICALLY so... trust me bro." Also, who said SE "trusted" them? Trust isn't an issue when you're being extorted with fear mongering. "Love your game, would be a shame if Kotaku, IGN, and all the Social Media platforms blew up with allegations of you BIGOTRY, RACISM, AND SEXISM wouldn't it?"

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Originally Posted by Skyclaw726

All I want from the next expansion is for the main villain to have a really thick Welsh accent. I would die for that, they could mess up the rest of Welsh/Celtic/Galic culture for all I care just give me cosmic horror Rhod Gilbert.

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Mao Greats Grandpa was Welsh. Mao was just little one when Mao first met Mao Greats Grandpa. Mao saw sooper tall mans (hims was like 6 feet 5 inches) walkings toward Mao speakings weird alien language. Mao was SCARED!

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I also pointed out the version of yosuka will insult the Japanese. Yosuka is see as coward who refuses to commit speku twice chosen exile instead of it. Any attempt to make him honorable will be deserved to the Japanese

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I only know who Yasuke is because I played Nioh, a game by Team Ninja, who are a Japanese studio. And they liked Yasuke so much he was in Nioh 1, Nioh 2, and you can get his armor in Rise of the Ronin. Was Japan going to get mad about a Japanese studio featuring Yasuke? haha Like, the main people that make media that reference him are Japanese (Koei Tecmo in particular really like him)

Check the in popular culture section if you would like to be better informed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke

i can verify that my state is filler content and ffxiv depicted it well

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Originally Posted by Asari5

am i the only one who think its weird how the cowboys and their cities who are in the wild west for the oil all are named like native americans?

i mean most of them are native americans but it feels very weird

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That is because

They are natives, but Koana went to Old Sharalyan, did research, then introduced that to the natives. You even hear very early on that the wooden wild west style towns that exist there and also the ceruleum processing plant is because of him. The natives who cling to their traditions seem to live in homes that are either tents or ones made of clay. I did the sidequests there and honestly the natives there seem fine with it as long as they are the ones becoming industrial. The only apprehension I could find to new technology, is just more cautious optimism from the ones that live in tents because of how the trains spook the rroneks (basically buffalo). The Whalaqee, at least of 7.0, do get mentioned when it comes to ceruleum, but its more just that tribe viewing ceruleum (aka phosporous water) as sacred and that they revere the blue flames it makes.

Maybe I am wrong in my speculation but

This honestly kind of sounds like a recipe to cause conflict. Where industrial folks learn of Lapis Canyon, a massive ceruleum deposit, and this causes hostilities with the Whalaqee.

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Originally Posted by ViaDesperare

The rubber bullets really showed the 4kids aspect of the writing, like how Nami used the rubber knife on Usopp in Once Piece for the 4kids dub.

Also be careful on using Latinx/Latine. Kind of racist to take someone else's language and bend it for an ulterior motive. I raid with people from South America, and they don't take too kindly to that language, and they'll call out that stuff in their community. That term is mainly a USA-term.

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This is false, it is a term created by queer people of Latin American descent, they are not being racist to themselves.

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Originally Posted by Midare

Do you know why the crime statistics are so high in latin america?

Perhaps you need to find out.

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Because of high levels of poverty caused by American imperialism. Google Banana Republic.

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Originally Posted by Mukouda

Is just such a simple thing to do, go straight to the source, do not go to a diversity consultant or whatever. Hire someone from the place you want to do or go there yourself if you are able. Learn as much as you can the good, the bad, the ugly, the strange, etc.

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That is literally what Sweet Baby Inc does, they are a consulting firm that puts game studios in contact with people from the locations who have the credentials to tell game designers what the architecture, culture, etc is like.

But oh noooooooooo that would be bad, right?

Is true though. Here there is a push to use words with the letter e as gender neutral. It would be latines at any rate.

So they're Americans pretending to be Latino.

That's not what they do, and you know that.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

That is literally what Sweet Baby Inc does, they are a consulting firm that puts game studios in contact with people from the locations who have the credentials to tell game designers what the architecture, culture, etc is like.

But oh noooooooooo that would be bad, right?

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Considering I watched their CEO publically boast about using intimidation tactics on stage at GDC, I have doubts as to their capabilities.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

This is false, it is a term created by queer people of Latin American descent, they are not being racist to themselves.

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Wasn't it created by English-speaking Latin Americans in the United States?

I only ask, because the "x" in Latinx is allegedly difficult to pronounce for a native Spanish speaker who doesn't already know or speak English. (X's in Spanish can sound like the "s" sound or even the "h" sound).

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Originally Posted by ronibosch

Wasn't it created by English-speaking Latin Americans in the United States?

I only ask, because the "x" in Latinx is allegedly difficult to pronounce for a native Spanish speaker who doesn't already know or speak English. (X's in Spanish can sound like the "s" sound or even the "h" sound).

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Latino/Latina is also a term created by Latin Americans living in the US and is most commonly used to describe people of Latin American origin living in the US. Latine/Latinx was made as a gender neutral option by queer people of Latin American descent living in the US.

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Originally Posted by Mukouda

Is true though. Here there is a push to use words with the letter e as gender neutral. It would be latines at any rate.

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This is true, Latine is more popular than Latinx.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

This is false, it is a term created by queer people of Latin American descent, they are not being racist to themselves.

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And? Still is a north american person trying to be "cool" while not understanding why people who live or even was born in any latam country despise both terms with a passion. It may be one of the very few things people from all those countries agree, me included lol

Like the not only we have proper ways already to call them but also we hate being banded together as "latino" to begin with.

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On topic: considering most of the stuff people relate to my country on media is futebol, samba and Copacabana Beach, SE did a great job. Lot's of details here and there, kind of enemies, names of itens, food, fish species etc, all most with their own twist or even mixed with other stuff bc well we have 33 different countries here, all with their own cultures, accents (some with several different accents due the size of the country), local languages, dialects, etc, it would be impossible to make stuff 1:1 and represent everything. Like Brasil alone would need the whole xpac + patches in terms of maps and still would barely scratch in terms of everything unique we have here alone.

Tbh the only thing I found offending in terms of culture and in a more general way was both Tulliyolal music themes. Like with so many unique music genres and rhythms we have in latam as whole it was extreme disappointing to hear jazz styled themes, way more after the banger we got with Radz-at-Han in EW.

I like that we're often depicted as lizard or cat people in fantasy games. I happen to like both.

As someone born and raised in Tuliyollal, I think the cultural accuracy is about 1:1. It's a big improvement on Garlemald, which differed greatly from what I experienced when I visited there around six years ago.

[QUOTE=FlowerMilk;6561456]Latino/Latina is also a term created by Latin Americans living in the US and is most commonly used to describe people of Latin American origin living in the US.

You couldn't be more wrong.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

Because of high levels of poverty caused by American imperialism. Google Banana Republic.

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Ah yes, I'm sure you know about that better than me even if I was born here.

To me it felt like somebody saw a ten second video snip of a cinco de mayo festival in the whitest city possible, thought that was enough to make them a cultural expert and then wrote the Dawntrail script off of that.

They haven't done Indonesia / South East Asia yet but they added Nasi Goreng so...it's fine I guess.

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Originally Posted by FlowerMilk

That is literally what Sweet Baby Inc does, they are a consulting firm that puts game studios in contact with people from the locations who have the credentials to tell game designers what the architecture, culture, etc is like.

But oh noooooooooo that would be bad, right?

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The only credentials they have is to tank every single game they have ever worked on by being roundabout racist.
If you take in a culture, you take.in both the good and bad, not just some fantasized perfect version of said culture .

That disrespects everything they've done and have gone through to get where we are today.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

#waiting for the drop bears.

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NGL, Drop Bears and swooping Maggies have to be included in Mercydia, or I will be disappointed.

I won't mind if *we* play a trading game from a paper-clip to a jar of Vegemite as maggie repellent either.

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Originally Posted by Midare

Ah yes, I'm sure you know about that better than me even if I was born here.

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Welcome to the American Extreme Left Wing, where "consulting companies" know the culture better than the locals of that area.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

NGL, Drop Bears and swooping Maggies have to be included in Mercydia, or I will be disappointed.

I won't mind if *we* play a trading game from a paper-clip to a jar of Vegemite as maggie repellent either.

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Will we also get bicycle helmets to wear so we don't get our skull caved in by the Maggies? Though I guess that would be preferable to getting the clap from a Drop Bear who thought my bearded face looked pretty.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

Welcome to the American Extreme Left Wing, where "consulting companies" know the culture better than the locals of that area.

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Been on X lately? It's more like the mainstream left-wing.

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Originally Posted by Retsu90

Been on X lately? It's more like the mainstream left-wing.

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I only ever get on X for updates to games I play. I mainly just get notifications about Dead By Daylight and Hunt : Showdown, with a few CC's I watch sprinkled in. I've heard about the crap that goes on X, so I avoid it for the most part.

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Originally Posted by LuciferMournstar

Welcome to the American Extreme Left Wing, where "consulting companies" know the culture better than the locals of that area.

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this is centrist neo lib garbage--no leftist I know likes these stupid corpos and their 4kids-esque sanitizing of everything they touch.

But before this just turns into a No True Scotsman back and forth, I want to say my actual thoughts: I think depicting cultures as shallow and sanitized of any actual conflict like they did here is a huge disservice to what could have been such a politically interesting area. Instead it's just tacos and ponchos and alpacas. And that's all well and good, but maybe a little bit more would be nice? Like any depth or real conflict that isn't immediately resolved by Wuk Lamat showing up? At least the maps are pretty, I guess...