Difficulty of normal content.

Maybe try being better.

Back to my two cents on the difficulty of these dungeons, by the time we are in dawntrail we have played literally hundreds of instances. If i were teaching you chemistry (for example, subject doesn't matter), and I patiently helped you do 100 chemistry problems, I'd expect you to get better. I don't expect you to be a pro chemist or anything, but we should be better than we started and hence the difficulty should increase. What FFXIV has been doing through its fight design has been to slowly ramp up the difficulty and teach you new mechanics. I too found some of the dodging on normal raid 2 difficult, but it was nice to finally have an example where I had to try at a normal raid mode and TBH, not all the normal raids were complete cakewalks on release day (eden 6 comes to mind), so I don't think it's so out of step with what FFXIV has been doing over the years. As for the dungeons, it was finally nice to have some new mechanics where i had to pay attention to not die.

I'm surprised we aren't talking about it, but I thought the last fight of this expansion was the most difficult MSQ fight we ever had. Personally, I loved it.

Remember, it is OK to feel fear and anxiety. This is so amazingly normal that it would be extremely strange if you didn't.
It is ok to try and fail. EVERYONE tries and EVERYONE fails. I am not sure a person exists who has never failed, and if they do, that failure will crush their soul. We should honestly fail early and often.
The key point is to GET UP AND KEEP TRYING. Life is literally a long process of dealing with some emotionally upsetting, obnoxious stuff that makes your life harder, possibly a failure that compounds it, but getting up and performing well anyway. That is literally how anything ever happens.

Keep going strong friends!

P.S. If someone you know has issues with Alcohol, try to get them help. Alcoholism makes everyone's life worse and trust me, liver failure looks a million times worse than it sounds. No one wants that.

Super tight timing windows and constantly running around isnt fun. That is going past the happy medium of dodging an aoe attentively and moving to react to the enemy.

Dialing it up is just lazy, bad and uncreative design. The game *has* to be different going forward. Making normal content closer to savage will just make the game not appeal to normal players anymore, and it still wont appeal to savage raiders. And it wont get normies into savage either.

Midcore players and casuals want more difficulty, sure, but not all of them. And there is implementing feedback and there is doing it well. Difficulty needed to increase, but this is a bad way of doing it.

No one likes untelegraphed instakill mechanics that you can only know by memorizing when it happens after the fact, or researching the content with guide videos beforehand. How lame is that? I dont want to do homework, I want to play. Thats why i dont play savage.

Stacked mechanics are usually equivalent to instakills unless performed perfectly and that even eats into the problem with healers having nothing to do. If youre too busy running around, you cant heal. And if people are either 100% hp or dead, theres also nothing to heal.

It's poor game design, but i think better than striking dummy bosses at least.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

lol @ the people saying "well, it needs to be harder because it's level 100 now", I've seen a couple of those comments by now.
I hope you are just trolling and understand why that doesn't work in a live service game.

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I don't think its unreasonable for the developers to expect people to learn how to play the game after 300 hours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Super tight timing windows and constantly running around isnt fun. That is going past the happy medium of dodging an aoe attentively and moving to react to the enemy.

Dialing it up is just lazy, bad and uncreative design. The game *has* to be different going forward. Making normal content closer to savage will just make the game not appeal to normal players anymore, and it still wont appeal to savage raiders. And it wont get normies into savage either.

Midcore players and casuals want more difficulty, sure, but not all of them. And there is implementing feedback and there is doing it well. Difficulty needed to increase, but this is a bad way of doing it.

No one likes untelegraphed instakill mechanics that you can only know by memorizing when it happens after the fact, or researching the content with guide videos beforehand. How lame is that? I dont want to do homework, I want to play. Thats why i dont play savage.

Stacked mechanics are usually equivalent to instakills unless performed perfectly and that even eats into the problem with healers having nothing to do. If youre too busy running around, you cant heal. And if people are either 100% hp or dead, theres also nothing to heal.

It's poor game design, but i think better than striking dummy bosses at least.

---

1) the new normals are nothing like what a savage fight is like

2) there is no untelegraphed instakill mechanic in the new normals

3) normal stacks are tuned to only he lethal under 5 people

It's normal content, press your buttons and open your eyes, it's really that simple.
Dungeons and Normal trials have actually been fun to do in this expansion, not Extreme level obviously (they shouldn't be), but fun compared to most normal content of previous expansions.

You people that refuse to press your buttons and engage with the game need to get use to the basic video game concept of dying being a part of learning, and to be perfectly honest, you can survive eating most mechanics because very few kill you outright.

I don't understand how you can get so far into the game and be upset at this level of difficulty, it's nonsensical.

The first raid doesn't even ask anything of you other than to move left and right, but clearly such complicated concepts have overly taxed your limited faculties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

Super tight timing windows and constantly running around isnt fun. That is going past the happy medium of dodging an aoe attentively and moving to react to the enemy.

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Yeah its not like you have 3-5 seconds to react when you look at the boss instead of waiting for the orange telegraph on the ground lmao.
Or do you have a reaction time of an 80 year old.

I'll say it again. Pay attention to the cast bar of the boss. There's plenty of time to react to everything. If you're waiting for yellow markers to appear, obviously you'll take the hit. You have 3 to 8 seconds to react depending on the mech.

In fact : bosses are just reusing old markers besides a few (like R1) from past raids or trials.

I do not understand why you would complain about this, I have heard a lot of people saying their passion for fights have been revitalized me included, the fights so far have been ABSOLUTELY AMAZING and I hope the devs continue on this path. Not just this, you should keep in mind this IS OPTIONAL content of course its going to be harder (its not even hard imo, I got my clears without 1 wipe except the platforms on m4)

Lmaooooooooooooo. Skill issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

Just so we are perfectly what I am asking for is to return to the same difficulty level of SB, ShB and EW when it comes to normal dungeons, trials and raids.
And to all the people giving me tips on how to play, thank very much but I've been playing for 6 years, might not be a 1.0 players but I know how to play the game, and I stand by what I wrote in the OP, there is a clear jump on difficulty in normal content compared to the last 3 expansions and if you don't notice it congratulations on being a big d!ck player, I guess.

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You say you know how to play but then you also get filtered by normal raids which makes me doubt you actually know how to play. Many telegraphs should be self explanatory to someone who knows how to play the game because they are atmost remixes or stuff that has to be logical to anyone paying attention like the short fuse, long fuse bombs on Round 3.
Yes, you can get caught off guard. It happened to us on the donut shape attack Round 2 opens with or with the half arena cleave in Round 3 that actually works like a hashmal dash but please when you are in the raid for the first time, focus on looking at the mechanics over looking at your hotbar. I think many players have their eyes glued to their hotbars and then wonder why they couldnt react to boss tells in time. Bosses telegraph their attacks through other means than just orange puddles on the ground.

Weird angle but I don't agree with either side here. I'm both okay with the difficulty of these raids and also don't think there's been any escalation in difficulty from EW. Like, I ran all of these repeatedly today and none of them seem as prone to wiping groups as the sea horse or the bird on launch back in the day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

And to all the people giving me tips on how to play, thank very much but I've been playing for 6 years, might not be a 1.0 players but I know how to play the game

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6 years? Lol. And you still can't be bothered to do mechanics and learn? This expansion so far has done nothing but hold your hand up until the raids that released today. I've been playing since 1.0, but calling players d!cks just cause you can't be bothered to learn? You want everything to be face roll easy and afk with 1 button wins, from what it sounds like. People thinking this is darksouls level of difficulty on an expansion that's been holding your hand through all the content up to the cap lmaaaaooooo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emitans

I don't think its unreasonable for the developers to expect people to learn how to play the game after 300 hours.

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After level 50-- you should have a understanding of "some" mechanics and using all your abilities, really. Sprint is an amazing tool that I see players still DONT use on most of the content at all (for whatever reason)

I'm a very casual player, I mostly craft, but I still do raids and other dungeons, I don't think the content has become difficult, it's even become interesting.
Sorry for bad english, this is google translate.

Hi Devs please ignore this thread, this is the best normal raid series in forever and better than the yawnfest of EW normals.

I got P4N in normal raid roulette after doing R1-4 and the difference is staggering in how sluggish P4 felt.

I registered an account just to reply you.

First of all, I'm a player that came back to FF14 at around 6.1, I've never really done anything starting day 1 from new expansions. The first time I ever played FF14 was when 4.1 or 4.2 came out, and I only played for like a few months at the time.
Much has changed from then to now of course.

So as someone who's never really experienced day 1 min IL runs, I have absolutely no problem with the new NR. I find it very interesting and fun to play, and they are not hard to understand.

This is not about how long you've played the game, but whether you've paid attention and actually understand how the mechs in the earlier content worked. If you are familiar with how the mechs worked before, the NR should not be any difficulty for you.

It is not about reaction time, I probably play on 300+ ping because I'm not in NA, and I still don't have a problem with dodging the mechs.
I am not a hardcore player, the first time I've ever done savage is P12S with echo, and I got carried by 7 people I knew. (still didn't finish it btw)

The mechs in the new NR are just, repeated mechs, except they add 2 mechs together, they have done this in SHB and EW NR as well.

Getting a few wipes during first time tries is absolutely NORMAL. It's ok if you don't do it right one the first few tries. UNDERSTANDING how a mech works is different from KNOWING.

If you have a hard time figuring out the mechs while DPSing, you can stop attacking and focus more on the mechs first before getting any more damage out.
I won't tell you how to play the game, but understanding basic mechs and how they work IS part of the game, or else why bother playing a raid when it's main point is about the fights?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

I wanted to wait to see the raid tier before I say anything. There are already post about dungeon and trial difficulty, and now normal raids should be thrown into the discussion too, and I might repeat points already said but I think we should really make a point of this, we (the people not ok with this difficulty) need for the devs to hear it to hopefully make a course correction. . .

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Aye.

Things are more challenging now than before.

But I'll give you the secret - you're a human being just like me.

And Humans are incredibly good at adapting.

You may feel stressed now because maybe this level of difficulty is new to you.
But you have the skills to make it work. You can. You will acclimate.

Right now yer bloodied but it is up to you to be unbowed.

Have faith in yourself.
Back when I first started I've been a white mage main for nearly 10 years now. Whenever I would struggle. Whenever I got frustrated.
I'd go back and I'd do the thing I failed at over and over.

I'd watch guides... over and over and over again before any fight, any dungeon. Because so much relies on a healer knowing fights better than anybody.

Nowadays, I do things blind. I adapt on the fly. I jump into partyfinder for even the most difficult content with basic understanding of strategies and I succeed.

I'd never have done that maybe a couple years ago. Healing a random group of strangers in the most difficult content... maybe I should wait for friends or FC members to help me.

I feel like I'm better now because I learned to help myself. I'm still learning and improving even now. Little by little. Failure after failure because there can be no achievement without errors and shortcomings.

You can do it too because we're the same.

I hope that helps encourage you.

Fight and struggle. Seek salvation by your own hands.
Though the losses be grave, endure them. Though the victories be hollow, claim them

If you're really struggling stick the dungeon in PF and you will get people to help you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CinaedhVik

And furthermore, players need to understand ITS OKAY to fail. It's okay to get a vuln stack, or fall off the arena, or get KO'd and wipe. You don't lose EXP like in FFXI for dying. You just start again. This raid tier is tuned properly: there's a challenge, but that challenge is not so difficult that you can't overcome it in a few pulls or, if things go really awful, a single lockout. You're not meant to be able to queue into any duty blind and clear without a single mistake every time, unless you're some hardcore type gamer who can read ahead. Even so, those of us who do savage raids still make mistakes now and then. Mistakes are okay. It's too bad you're quitting before even trying.

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This 1000% this comment, Normal Raids are supposed to be mid content, designed to be challenging to the player but not so hard its punishing like Savage if you get hit but AOE's or die, though I'm starting to think you've only made this post to bait responses (Talking to OP), I've been hit and died many times, the DOT you receive after getting hit by some AOE is a bit nasty but still manageable by using own self healing and healing from healers :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

I wanted to wait to see the raid tier before I say anything. There are already post about dungeon and trial difficulty, and now normal raids should be thrown into the discussion too, and I might repeat points already said but I think we should really make a point of this, we (the people not ok with this difficulty) need for the devs to hear it to hopefully make a course correction.

The problem with the difficulty on normal fights as I see it is:
-Use and abuse of non standard telegraphs.
-Nasty mechanic overlaps, stuff you would see on extreme and harder fights.
-Mechs resolving too quickly for the mental capacity they demand to process.
-One too many "catch this!" mech (mechs that have you running around like headless chicken evading seemingly random patterns).

All this has been making fights in this expansion frustrating and exhausting.

The Honey B fight had me wishing for the healer to not raise me, I was there in the floor, dead for the Nth time, thinking that I don't really want to be on that duty.

And it's not an issue of learning the fight, because that I can do, but we don't do this content alone, you know? I think it was the 4th time I was doing Valigarmanda when I finally managed to finish without dying myself, but that's a moot point when half the party was dead half of the time, even knowing the fight doesn't make it any less of a disheartening experience.

And yes, this concerns normal raids too even if they are optional content. In fact I gonna take the skip option for this raid tier, something I haven't done since I started playing in SB. And that's the point really, for the most part in the past 3 expansions difficulty for normal content was fair outside of some hiccup here and there.

I firmly believe that content meant to be done via the duty finder (where you don't choose who you playing with) shouldn't be this level of punishing. And I know that JP people do savage in the duty finder but we don't do that in NA or EU, for better or worse western players doesn't behave like JP players.

Finally I think that people that thrive with difficulty (the ones that demand harder content) already have extremes, savages, ultimate, criterion dungeons, and more (Yoshi-p is even touting of savage alliances), this people is eating really, really good. Do they need to take normal content too? Can casual players have something easy-ish to play? Please?

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You've had 100 levels to become competent at the game.


Normal raids are meant to be moderately challenging but less punishing than Extreme or Savage.



https://media.makeameme.org/created/...bc7313b795.jpg

It's reassuring to see a lot of people happy to have content that cannot be completed while being sleeping ������

This is my favorite first tier and, for sure, my favorite raid serie already, because it actually needs me being focused on the game. Dawntrail is a banger, thanks Square <3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emeline

It's reassuring to see a lot of people happy to have content that cannot be completed while being sleeping ������

This is my favorite first tier and, for sure, my favorite raid serie already, because it actually needs me being focused on the game. Dawntrail is a banger, thanks Square <3

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Indeed.

Normal raid is mid tier content along with Extreme, it should present a moderate challenge.

It's okay to not be good at something first try. Just keep trying and improve. And if you don't want to do that then just play the MSQ (with the solo duties set to very easy ofc) and ignore trials/raids/alliance raids.

Heaven forbid there's more than a spread and a stack marker in a fight

Nearly ten years and five expansions later, and here we are, crying out about the "extreme" difficulty of level 100 content. Imagine having resources, guides, forum posts, videos and people explaining everything, and you still can't be bothered to improve and learn the fight. No, it's much easier to whine and complain, demanding the devs dumb everything down. You had almost a decade to get better, but you'd rather the game be reduced to a braindead walk in the park. Let’s erase the sense of achievement and thrill of victory entirely. Everyone gets a trophy, because effort is overrated. The developers design challenging content for a reason. It’s meant to test players, to provide a sense of progression. But why bother with their vision? Let’s pressure them into making everything easier. Let’s make it monotonous and uninspired. Repetitive gameplay is what everyone really wants, right? Let’s ensure the game evolves to cater to the lowest common denominator. That’s the real goal, isn’t it?

If the Content is too hard for you just dont do it?

I can understand and im the Opinion MSQ Dungeons and MSQ Story should be piss easy while optional Content should be harder, sorry to say it but you cant complain about everything because its not perfect suited for your own "Skilllevel" you need to accept there is Content you cant do and you have to accept there is Content which is for a other kind of Playerbase, instead of complaining and hoping Square makes everything piss easy, the Game isnt 100% Casual, there are Player even amongst Casuals who likes atleast a bit of a Challenge, if you none of them just dont do the Content.

Day one of the new raid tier and people already complaining about artificial difficulty.

To my best knowledge Endwalker was designed around the solo player and it was so clear in anything considered casual content being the most boring content I have done when it comes to the normal modes.

Now they have slightly upped the stakes and it's just right, when doing msq and first run of a dungeon and being surprised by a mechanic instead of it being the over used standard stuff brought so much thrill. And every instance in Dawntrail feels amazing. A small bump up of difficulty that atleast on EU, now it's been a few weeks is having zero issues with.

Now back to my original point. This is day 1 normal raids. People will mess up until they have a good feeling. The 2nd fight has a unique mechanic not used in casual content before (in this kinda style anyway) and is probably the outlier I imagine people are feeling like trash over.

It's time FF players stop having their hand held, and accept wiping once or twice in casual content. It's a MMO... we are supposed to play with others and learn and grow from mistakes.

Please reconsider your stance on the content in the expansion. The battle content has been the best it has ever been.

Personally I really enjoyed the Normal mode content so far, it's not overly punishing, most failed mechanics still only result in a vuln stack or two.
Having to learn a fight by doing it more than once isn't difficult, once you've run a piece of content a couple of times it becomes easy, as for 'non standard telegraphs' the game definitely needed to mix it up a bit, 'don't stand in orange' only has so many mechanics it can result in.

The toss mechanic in M1 was very fun, Honey B is manic but enjoyable, M3 is fair pattern recognition and M4 was very enjoyable all around. For a 1st tier it was good in my opinion. Even with a team of 5 randoms we cleared each one with only a single wipe on Honey B, I feel you may have just had poor luck with DF, that happens, especially on day 1.

Languishing in the same few mechanics is boring, it made old Expert Roulette dungeons a chore, but TV and TSD are the best optional dungeons I've played in years and the experimentation done in the levelling dungeons really spiced up what was a very dialogue heavy MSQ.

I am very happy with the content provided. I suppose this is the struggle of balancing a game for so many people though, others might not gel well with it. But in terms of pure difficulty this is a small step up once you take the time to take in the mechanics. Having a small amount of learning for normal content is not a bad thing at all for me.

I've been getting my ass kicked and i love it.
I have a reason to rivisit the content.

For me:
M1 toss was the best mechanic of the series.
M2 was hilarious but outstayed its welcome (obviously that'll fix itself as dps escalates).
M3 was okay.
M4's slow reveal of the clones has readability issues to me. I have to kinda squint at them.
All four, especially M4 were a huge step up in terms of cinema.

I still don't think any of them are as hard as P2/P3 were at launch. By hard I mean my anecdotal experience of how reliably they could wipe groups early on, though I think I managed to see a wipe at least once of each (so they're harder than Eric, I guess lol).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mlem

For me:
M1 toss was the best mechanic of the series.
M2 was hilarious but outstayed its welcome (obviously that'll fix itself as dps escalates).
M3 was okay.
M4's slow reveal of the clones has readability issues to me. I have to kinda squint at them.
All four, especially M4 were a huge step up in terms of cinema.

I still don't think any of them are as hard as P2/P3 were at launch. By hard I mean my anecdotal experience of how reliably they could wipe groups early on, though I think I managed to see a wipe at least once of each (so they're harder than Eric, I guess lol).

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There's still not a whole lot of mechanics that will actually kill a tank though.
I did it as a dps once and got my arse kicked. I reckon i'll probably be able to do it without dying next time, but yeah.
Tanks are basically immortal demigods in the current state of the game.

They should increase the difficulty of normal content across the board to at the very least match the level it was during launch.

It's literally wasted resources to have most of the game's content defeatable by standing in everything and pressing 2 buttons.

This raid follows the same pattern in difficulty as the 3 expert dungeons, we are still in the "now you have to pay attention and move your camera or else you will get a bleed or die" era in normal content which I really like, I still feel bad for those people that are basaically getting a wake up call this expac

The mechanics arent new but they're being overlapped in great ways where now you have to look at things

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

There's still not a whole lot of mechanics that will actually kill a tank though.
I did it as a dps once and got my arse kicked. I reckon i'll probably be able to do it without dying next time, but yeah.
Tanks are basically immortal demigods in the current state of the game.

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Oh yeah. I unironically started rolling kardion on my cohealer when doing SGE.

Because I forgot to put it on a tank at the start (as you do) and then was like "Well, nobody's noticed but that WHM sure is bleeding lots."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

3) normal stacks are tuned to only he lethal under 5 people

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I'm surprised he had an issue with the stacks. My co-tank and I three-manned a stack with a healer in M2 while he LB'd. A few mits at close-to-full HP and he walked it off.

I wondered how long it would take for a post like this to come up, OP says they play since SB and so have I, I started raiding in SB and the last two expacs the content was so dull and not engaging and now that we're getting something that requires more than a minimum of 0 braincells people are complaining. Maybe the content just isn't for you but the devs did it for a reason because they realized ShB and EW the content was incredibly boring.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deslyxic

I wanted to wait to see the raid tier before I say anything. There are already post about dungeon and trial difficulty, and now normal raids should be thrown into the discussion too, and I might repeat points already said but I think we should really make a point of this, we (the people not ok with this difficulty) need for the devs to hear it to hopefully make a course correction.

The problem with the difficulty on normal fights as I see it is:
-Use and abuse of non standard telegraphs.
-Nasty mechanic overlaps, stuff you would see on extreme and harder fights.
-Mechs resolving too quickly for the mental capacity they demand to process.
-One too many "catch this!" mech (mechs that have you running around like headless chicken evading seemingly random patterns).

All this has been making fights in this expansion frustrating and exhausting.

The Honey B fight had me wishing for the healer to not raise me, I was there in the floor, dead for the Nth time, thinking that I don't really want to be on that duty.

And it's not an issue of learning the fight, because that I can do, but we don't do this content alone, you know? I think it was the 4th time I was doing Valigarmanda when I finally managed to finish without dying myself, but that's a moot point when half the party was dead half of the time, even knowing the fight doesn't make it any less of a disheartening experience.

And yes, this concerns normal raids too even if they are optional content. In fact I gonna take the skip option for this raid tier, something I haven't done since I started playing in SB. And that's the point really, for the most part in the past 3 expansions difficulty for normal content was fair outside of some hiccup here and there.

I firmly believe that content meant to be done via the duty finder (where you don't choose who you playing with) shouldn't be this level of punishing. And I know that JP people do savage in the duty finder but we don't do that in NA or EU, for better or worse western players doesn't behave like JP players.

Finally I think that people that thrive with difficulty (the ones that demand harder content) already have extremes, savages, ultimate, criterion dungeons, and more (Yoshi-p is even touting of savage alliances), this people is eating really, really good. Do they need to take normal content too? Can casual players have something easy-ish to play? Please?

---

Play Tetris

I was completely hopeless at my first run through these new raids. I guess I'll concede that I'm really quite bad with adapting to new content in this game, which is entirely down to me. And I know I need to do better.

However, all these "skill issue" and angry replies are really disappointing - I mean, there are a few 'it's okay to struggle' comments here and there but otherwise quite a few of the replies are overly aggressive and derogatory (toward the OP) and there is just no need for that. And that's a damn shame, because I don't think we should be creating this idea that it's NOT okay to say "I don't find this easy". Granted, the way the OP presented the post might have aggravated the situation by, basically, calling for a nerf (which some clearly took a high degree of offense to) - but nonetheless, I don't think there was any need for the numerous, sometimes insulting, "skill issue" type replies that people felt the need to add to the already growing number.
I mean, what IS this mindset of "I find it easy, so you should too!" anyway?

As already said, I suck at the game and whilst I don't really completely stink at knowing my job rotations, I am way too slow learning mechanics - however, that's something that I need to deal with and not something the Devs should adapt to suit my (low) skill level.

But I still don't think we should be discouraging anyone from admitting that they don't find the game easy.

TBH it gives me more courage to know there's a lot of people enjoying the diffculty rather than wanting to make the content easier. I was anxious Dawntrail would just become content you'd sleep through.