Dawntrail's 8-man raid discussion

It sucks ASS as a melee. First time I've ever considered swapping to ranged. It's not even about the hitbox size. They just move WAY too much. Screw positionals. Even True North can't save you.
I'll do it once a week to get my shit, but if I get it in roulettes otherwise I'll be leaving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justausername

It sucks ASS as a melee. First time I've ever considered swapping to ranged. It's not even about the hitbox size. They just move WAY too much. Screw positionals. Even True North can't save you.
I'll do it once a week to get my shit, but if I get it in roulettes otherwise I'll be leaving.

---

I admit, I was just doing some sad meditation over in the safe-zone on the final boss as she destroys the floor and stands off in Can't-hit-me land for 10 seconds.

Really impressed with these raids! I look forward to what kind of nonsense they do in savage. The story is also a ton of fun!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Toutatis

Storywise, I also find it stupid that my WoL suddenly lowers herself to arena fighting.

---

The Blue Mage that is my WoL not only lowers herself, but wishes she'd get more opportunities to knock some heads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isala

The Blue Mage that is my WoL not only lowers herself, but wishes she'd get more opportunities to knock some heads.

---

Blue mage is a complete side game. Raids are expected in every expansion and normally bring a complement to the main experience but this brings absolutely nothing to the story. I guess it's in line with MSQ where you do a lot of quests that don't advance the plot. The Blue Mage arena is also not vulgar WWE style.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justausername

It sucks ASS as a melee. First time I've ever considered swapping to ranged. It's not even about the hitbox size. They just move WAY too much. Screw positionals. Even True North can't save you.
I'll do it once a week to get my shit, but if I get it in roulettes otherwise I'll be leaving.

---

Opposite to me, better than sitting still in one spot versus a target marker the size of the arena and mechanics that take a week to resolve. The fights are designed to be chaotic and non-maximum uptime, the better you are at playing the higher your DPS will be. Isn't that what people have been asking for?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

A disease is supposed to make me interested in what's next? We are in the middle of a technological paradise where no one can even die.

---

The fact that the disease, or rather how they go about hiding it, involves actually letting these people die for real is part of the hook. They're specifically detached from the Endless system, not that it actually works anymore, in order to keep people in the dark about how these people are dying because everyone remembers them so clearly they're just living it up in retirement somewhere.

For me till now probably the best 8 man raid in the game.

The story is separate from the MSQ and it’s actually funny how interesting it can be. Wonder who wrote it?

Our character is actually acknowledged, we aren’t forced to just agree with the soul using stuff but have an actual goal with ending it and the fights are omg great.

Like… the first fight is just fun with the tile and sucker punch mechanic.
The second fight is so hectic it’s nuts while being fun.
The third for me was the weakest but still great.
The last one has an actual enrage! Like a real enrage and healer check. Awesome!

I actually want to know how the story unfolds compared to Pandemonium.
The stakes are actually pretty high for ourselves with our soul on the line and I wonder how it will be further down the line.

Also Eutrope is my new waifu. 10/10 can have my soul anytime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justausername

It sucks ASS as a melee. First time I've ever considered swapping to ranged. It's not even about the hitbox size. They just move WAY too much. Screw positionals. Even True North can't save you.
I'll do it once a week to get my shit, but if I get it in roulettes otherwise I'll be leaving.

---

You see. As a magical ranged main since forever I like that for once melee are not in a blatant favored position for most of the fight. In EW it was starting to annoy me that I sometimes had to play blm perfectly only for a melee to just get automatic high numbers almost.
An entire expansion was in your favor fightwise AND damagewise.

Don’t worry, savage will have strategies again for everyone else to adjust. It’s already happening with the first EX and that one has a dps check the last raid here laughs on.

I really had a really Bad Experience with the 2nd Fight yesterday.. That Queen Bee Fight made me so angry that I twisted my neck and now everykind of movement or rather my neck hurts still.. pugs man.. which makes me wonder why they don't add trusts to normal mode +getting my 92 drop rolled by 98 also isn't fun.
Overall:
1st Fight is okay, though I recommend to put Otherworld from FFX as BGM on loop.
2nd Fight is from hell
3rd Fight is kinda funny
4th Fight is gimmicky but good

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

It's a disease caused by using souls that destroys your own soul. I'm not hooked.

---

You're not curious at all about how there's someone out there with the ability and/or authority to circumvent the system in place?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

It's a disease caused by using souls that destroys your own soul. I'm not hooked.

It's like if you sat down and thought "hmm what could be a major downside of using feral souls??" and picked the very first thing you thought of. "Well what if you just destroy your own soul?"

---

I actually like it.
The plot starts slow but not too slow.
The thing with the soul detoriating was actually already implied in the MSQ with how the soul device works. (“Fills” your missing aether of the soul after death and a feral soul almost overrides your personality)

I’m sure it won’t stay there. Alone the implication to use our more dense soul as a medicine is… kinda nightmare fuel with how nonchalant they talk about that. It’s really creepy and with the fighting to the death because they have spare souls just shows how far gone the entire system is.
I’m also pretty sure the entire thing with the “champions having their soul safes for later” will get important and is probably the main goal why they wanted us in the first place.
To use the WoL’s soul as an amusement system in the future.

Gives me nightmares tbh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

The fact that the fights even got me to consider coming out of raid retirement for Savage is a huge compliment, since even Ultimate wasn't doing it.

Story is just Chapter 3 from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door and I am absolutely here for it.

This was enjoyable overall. A direct hit. Honey B Lovely, I have high expectations for your fight.

---

I feel less insane knowing I'm not the only one with that story opinion.

I found the MSQ so bad it was offensive and insulting. However, I'm really pleased with the raid series! The concept of a tournament arc for a raid is inherently exciting, it's great.

The fights themselves are so silly and campy in the best way possible. I love the focus on female stories, characters, and dynamics. The announcer is great, the crowds are great, the colours pop. Folks don't know we're the WoL, so us being special because we don't use souls is satisfying. Using beast souls for entertainment, people recognizing the WoL's strength, us chilling with Black Cat, the plot with her sister (it makes sense, there's stakes, there's a dilemma, it's topical), everything lands. I love that Black Cat admires us and isn't a sore loser, she's my homie. The raid series doesn't take itself seriously and it's very effective.

It goes without saying that the fights themselves are great too. Love the mechanics, and the thought put into the fights is very charming (the ref-bot, the funny attack names, HONEY B. LOVELY <3, Cheater McCheaterFace, etc). Everything was such a fresh air and returned my agency after Wuk Lamat. It just oozed pure fun. This gives me a good feeling about FRU, which is a huge deal to me because I want FRU to be my ultimate Ultimate. :)

The 2nd fight kind of puts me off of the tier not gonna lie, I really dislike the whole themeing and the bullet hell nature of the fight (it just doesn't work with FF's snapshot), and as if Moogle King and Titania weren't already brainrot-inducing enough with their soundtracks...

But the rest were ok. Nothing special, just ok. More of the usual. I'm not really seeing the "fresh mechanics" people keep describing, I guess I'm just burned out on "dodge aoe telegraph, stack, spread, tower" which is most of the normal raid mechanics that have been reused and recycled and telegraphed 5 seconds in advance for the past 3 expansions now. I think there's like 1 truly new mechanic with the knockbacks on Black Cat but that's about it? So idk, not exactly enough to surprise me or keep me engaged at this point.

Fun meets the bare minimum. But things do need to be new and creative from here on. Choreographed dancing into the correct places to stand wont carry the game another 10 years, let alone 3.

Arcadion was great - It was a short, simple and fun story with likeable characters

I also like that I get to be myself again and not Wuk Lamat's mind controlled slave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkCobalt

The 2nd fight kind of puts me off of the tier not gonna lie, I really dislike the whole themeing and the bullet hell nature of the fight (it just doesn't work with FF's snapshot), and as if Moogle King and Titania weren't already brainrot-inducing enough with their soundtracks...

But the rest were ok. Nothing special, just ok. More of the usual. I'm not really seeing the "fresh mechanics" people keep describing, I guess I'm just burned out on "dodge aoe telegraph, stack, spread, tower" which is most of the normal raid mechanics that have been reused and recycled and telegraphed 5 seconds in advance for the past 3 expansions now. I think there's like 1 truly new mechanic with the knockbacks on Black Cat but that's about it? So idk, not exactly enough to surprise me or keep me engaged at this point.

---

I think it’s less about all mechanics being new but having those in normal in the first place.

The knock back with the breaking tiles makes it so players have to pay attention and not just move out and move in again.

The heart mechanic makes it so players actually have to quickly agree who takes what towers instead of just standing together.

The bomb one with the left right mechanic can quickly throw players of with the directiona being random.

The last boss is just aoes sure but they can have quite the snap shooting and the left right up to 5 times really has to make you memorize it.

All those are simple mechanics true but they are in normal mode where there are no position macros.

I like it. It’s not too hard but you have to pay attention again.
Reminds me of Stormblood raids.

The fresh mechanics were said to start in later patches also.

I criticize the devs for the MSQ and some job changes but this time I really have to give them credit here.
Sure it’s all not groundbreaking but it’s a nice “bleeding” of dormer harder content into normal now without overtuning it.
That’s just my opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voidmage

I actually like it.
The plot starts slow but not too slow.
The thing with the soul detoriating was actually already implied in the MSQ with how the soul device works. (“Fills” your missing aether of the soul after death and a feral soul almost overrides your personality)

I’m sure it won’t stay there. Alone the implication to use our more dense soul as a medicine is… kinda nightmare fuel with how nonchalant they talk about that. It’s really creepy and with the fighting to the death because they have spare souls just shows how far gone the entire system is.
I’m also pretty sure the entire thing with the “champions having their soul safes for later” will get important and is probably the main goal why they wanted us in the first place.
To use the WoL’s soul as an amusement system in the future.

Gives me nightmares tbh.

---

It's a very cyberpunk story.

Using souls to let your prized Gladiators fight to the death while making them use steroids that'll kill them in a way the general system for increased life expectancy isn't set up to help with. All to enterain the masses and make a Profit.

Add a Rival arena/Fighting Organisation to try and support is in breaking this one/exposing it's secrets next tier and we'd need be in full on 'Corpos hiring mercs to mess each other up' territory.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sani2341

It's a very cyberpunk story.

Using souls to let your prized Gladiators fight to the death while making them use steroids that'll kill them in a way the general system for increased life expectancy isn't set up to help with. All to enterain the masses and make a Profit.

Add a Rival arena/Fighting Organisation to try and support is in breaking this one/exposing it's secrets next tier and we'd need be in full on 'Corpos hiring mercs to mess each other up' territory.

---

yet none of it feels right. the storytelling is just off. They are trying to transplant a different games story into the game. the one scene after finishing a round i felt like my wol was a Kardashian. Everything about dawntrail is like that though as if they rolled dice to choose what tropes to use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astronema

yet none of it feels right. the storytelling is just off. They are trying to transplant a different games story into the game. the one scene after finishing a round i felt like my wol was a Kardashian.

---

Hm , and here I more got the Impression of being an athlete making the mistake of Walking Out the public exit after an Event.
Probably was even tame for that considering how easily some sport fans throw fists over their favorites losing.

I will be annoyed if the Savage version of the second fight has the bullet hell part, otherwise it’s a great time

Most fun normal raid in a while, hope the devs keep it up with this pace for normal raids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsuchii

Why is it 1 VS 8?? It's so unfair!!! Other than that plot hole, it's been great.
I love Dawntrail and the raids are a good addition.

---

That was addressed. It's because they have feral souls at their disposal and we don't wear a regulator.

To the OP, love the raids. They were fun, music was great, and story is intriguing. I would love to see the president is someone like Kuja to fully bring the IX references home.

I love how the commentor is basically a vocal version of the "I see you f*cking up" meme though he also praises you if you do exceptionally well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I feel like this raid tier is being overhyped. The combat is great but come on. This is no Eden raid or even Pandaemonium. At least not in terms of a complete package.

---

No, it's not Eden or Panda. It far surpasses oth of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ayalu

Raid Gear is underwhelming tbh but Raid itself certainly was fun :)

---

I HOPE the next set is mexican luchador inspired! Colorful with capes and all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilyPendragon

No, it's not Eden or Panda. It far surpasses oth of them.

---

Pretty much. This is the most fun I've had in a Normal mode in ages.

And with screwups giving DoTs instead of just standard Vuln stacks now, I get to actually do the healer thing of "I did not give you permission to die!" instead of "Whelp. Guess you're just dead at the next roomwide."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

There's no reason for our WoL to do or care about this outside being an adventurer.


People say Wuk Lamat is Naruto. And? These are all human npcs with the same personalities except less Naruto and more DBZ, down to the "now you'll face my sister" final act.

---

And the chance of freeing the trapped souls?

Am I the only one thinking a big, or maybe even main reason for our presence here is hoping to inspire Alexandrian to eventually forgo the use of regulator and soul?

After the MSQ, Wuk said it's ok for the Alexandrian to keep their way of life. It's one of her better decision, because forcefully make them change probably is a bad idea.

But the WoL journey, in the short term allow us to free the trap soul in the short term, to free all arena soul at the end in the long term after becoming a champion.

But the real end game for us is to show the Alexandrian that what they can do even without a regulator and usage of soul. Already that element is being set as our center piece in the raid story.

Not sure about you, but that's good enough for me. Also not sure how you RP your WoL, my head cannon is while my WoL is a hopelessly good natures Azem, doesn't mean they don't enjoy the thrill under the stage light.

Quote:

---

A disease is supposed to make me interested in what's next? We are in the middle of a technological paradise where no one can even die.

---

Ok, the MSQ sucks, but I still had to go through it 4 times, so you know what I know? I know what you just said is flat out incorrect. The system only prevent them dying from accidental trauma. They still suffer/die of natural cause and decease. One of the side quest in the last zone introduced you to what the Alexandrian's equivalent to the US's CDC.

Quote:

---

Visuals, music, encounter design carry the raid.

---

They greatly add to the raid yes, they didn't carry the raid because ATM the raid doesn't need carry.

But like I said, I felt pointless to judge a tier's design and mechanic before seeing savage. Right now it's about the vibe, and they absolutely getting the vibe right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

You're not curious at all about how there's someone out there with the ability and/or authority to circumvent the system in place?

---

It's that's shards version of Lolorito, I'm calling it now

My prediction is that the president is one of the remaining Ascians we've yet to discover. The shard was being prepped for a rejoining so it makes logical sense that one of the remaining Ascians was working on it. An Ascian was also likely behind Solution 9's technology. I also just refuse to believe that the Ascians haven't done anything in the New World at any point throughout history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

And the chance of freeing the trapped souls?

Am I the only one thinking a big, or maybe even main reason for our presence here is hoping to inspire Alexandrian to eventually forgo the use of regulator and soul?

After the MSQ, Wuk said it's ok for the Alexandrian to keep their way of life. It's one of her better decision, because forcefully make them change probably is a bad idea.

But the WoL journey, in the short term allow us to free the trap soul in the short term, to free all arena soul at the end in the long term after becoming a champion.

---

The level of characters in game just glancing over the soul stuff is pretty jarring.

Understanding and accepting cultures is pretty crazy if it reaches to munching of souls.

Like… this is a setting we’re souls are known to exist and were people know there is a live stream and they just go and „I accept your culture“.
Dude, that practice should have been turned off as soon as the story was over, culture be damned.
Solution 9 was already annexed with a „puppet ruler“ under more or less dawnservant rule.

The voidsend were rightfully contempt for doing that and now it’s ok? Heck the voidguests showed that even the voidsent had some who were disgusted by that and regretted it.

No you are not the only one thinking that.
That’s more or less the reason the WoL keeps fighting in the tournament with their soul on the line if they lose.

For once I'm glad we're just fighting super powerful humans using their own powerful tools and transformation.
The same way WoL has Azem's crystal, they use their technology to fuse with the soul of beasts.

I wish next raid would include this shard's version of Ilberd of Ran'jit, just to give them the actual bossfight they deserve. Ran'jit battlestyle would fit pretty well on top of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voidmage

Like… this is a setting we’re souls are known to exist and were people know there is a live stream and they just go and „I accept your culture“.
Dude, that practice should have been turned off as soon as the story was over, culture be damned.
Solution 9 was already annexed with a „puppet ruler“ under more or less dawnservant rule.

---

Because then it will be too far from the Disney-like mutual understanding theme that the developers want for FF14. They already pushed it as far as they can by making the Alexandrian under Wuk's protectorate thing. And a section of the forums already cried about "why we genocide the endless" (lol?)

You noticed never once in any expansion we rarely or ever force change, but only inspire change unless there is no option left. Remeber after the shit they did, when the Alliance marched into Garlemald also under the mutual understanding and friendship banner.

If you want to follow real life logic, the whole story doesn't make sense. The Alexandrian just slaughtered a bunch of Tulirian, then themselves got slaughtered by a King from Tuliyollal. Than Tulilyollal's queen herself came in and kill the Alexandrian queen, then put the child of the previous king in charge under threat. But now everyone just hug and be merry instead of screaming for blood?


If this is real life, Garlemald would be told to shove their pride up their arse, forced into total disarmament and every drop of the Celeribrium would be mine to pay for war reparations.


If this is real life, Gulool Ja's head would depart from from his neck the moment we turned around, and the Alexandrian go into full war if Wuk dare to followed through with her threat.


When you put the raid story line next to those ... it's ... not that absurd in this universe really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

If this is real life, Garlemald would be told to shove their pride up their arse, forced into total disarmament and every drop of the Celeribrium would be mine to pay for war reparations.

---

...yeah the last time we did that, we got a bigger war 20 years later. That one had fewer trenches though.

"Real life" does not equal bloody. Alexandria and Tuliyollol agreeing to put down weapons after both get their noses bloodied is ironically more realistic, particularly for semi-medieval and feudal societies which, outside of Asia, had far fewer deaths and were more displays of force outside of certain conflicts.

The Garlemald operation meanwhile was *specifically* to avoid a recovered Garlemald from kicking off again down the road.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigBoom550

...yeah the last time we did that, we got a bigger war 20 years later. That one had fewer trenches though.

"Real life" does not equal bloody. Alexandria and Tuliyollol agreeing to put down weapons after both get their noses bloodied is ironically more realistic, particularly for semi-medieval and feudal societies which, outside of Asia, had far fewer deaths and were more displays of force outside of certain conflicts.

---

Maybe if I had been the case of 2 countries goes to war and call a truce after a stalemate. The one in the game is really convoluted with the whole child king at the end, and if you listen to Wuk's speech in front of the Alexandrian in S9, she's basically turning them into her protectorate all but in name. The only way a nation would take that lying down is because they can't fight back (yet), not because they don't want to. It only works this way because it's a Disney story.