Give back pre-DT models back NOW

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Originally Posted by ConantSivrha

I’m the person who made the character shown in this comparison image, so I’d like to add my thoughts.

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What I personally take issue with is the feminized look of the new face. The nose looks smaller, the lips look doll-like, the eyelashes look bigger, and so on. This character’s appearance is now more in line with generic anime girl beauty standards (or, as one might say, “better”), but this is the opposite of what I intended for this character’s design. Beyond my own character, I think the changes to face 4 have reduced the variety of potential female miqo’te faces in an unfortunate way, since face 4 now looks more like the other three faces.

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THIS! 1000 times this. It is not unreasonable to feel this way either.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

That would be a great reason if they actually did anything with it, but instead we got the exact same canned animations and expressions as always. Nothing has changed.

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7.0 was most likely animated with the old models, since making an expansion takes a long time and the new models weren't done yet. Going back and redoing every cut scene would've caused delays, and good luck getting the shareholders on board with that. We'll need to wait for 7.1 to see what they actually do with the new models.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

7.0 was most likely animated with the old models, since making an expansion takes a long time and the new models weren't done yet. Going back and redoing every cut scene would've caused delays, and good luck getting the shareholders on board with that. We'll need to wait for 7.1 to see what they actually do with the new models.

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There is no evidence to suggest that 7.0 was animated with the old models, there is no evidence that they had to redo an entire cutscene to slap an updated expression on it- bringing shareholders into the argument to make it sound more reasonable is just moving into fanfiction tier. This entire reasoning is nothing but baseless speculation for an excuse

It's patch 7.0, these improved expressions promised in 7.0 are not here. That's all there is to it

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Who is "we"? Cause I do welcome the new models.

If you don't know how 3D models and textures work in FFXIV, then you should probably look it up. Stop asking for old models, t's just a massive work load on the dev team.

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Maybe stop asking people who don't like them to shut up and go away. We are not pleased with the changes. Many changes are worse. Many are better but no, they all are not better. So shut up, touch grass, and let people tell the devs what they did wrong. If your character looks great, good, I'm glad you got lucky, many of us didn't. Many faces or eyes in the game are worse than before. And this should be adknowledge instead of saying you know better than others.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

Maybe stop asking people who don't like them to shut up and go away. We are not pleased with the changes. Many changes are worse. Many are better but no, they all are not better. So shut up, touch grass, and let people tell the devs what they did wrong. If your character looks great, good, I'm glad you got lucky, many of us didn't. Many faces or eyes in the game are worse than before. And this should be adknowledge instead of saying you know better than others.

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But yall are still gonna go play with your characters right?

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I'll be honest here: as someone who has been through this in World of Warcraft (I was ridiculously attached to my Draenei).... this level of attachment to a temporary video game character is unhealthy.

The models most certainly did not change "beyond recognition". Yes, there are subtle changes (to my Keeper as well) but they are not night/day differences.

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It's not unhealthy, if you don't understand about it better not comment on attachment or go talk with a psychologist to understand why it's not bad.

And yes, they have changed beyond recognition, from having opened eyes and clear iris with the little shine to have the eyelids closed over the eye, obscuring the iris color and devoided of shine, these eyes are now expressionless and makes the character look angry/ dead, and etc. Some eyebrows are now thinner than before for NO reason. Lips gloss are now in all the models no matter if you tick a lipstick color or not. Etc. It's not an improvement, in many faces they are ruined.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

But yall are still gonna go play with your characters right?

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Because I don't have any other option? I will mod them to how they were if the actual devs don't listen. You really think I was happy playing with my character changed? Because it made me want to quit. His expressions in the cutscenes are not the same, this is not the character I have been playing for years. This is not him, and no matter how many fantasias they throw at me, I can't fix his eyes. It's saddens me, it makes me depressed and not want to play. I want my character back, if this continues and they don't listen, I won't play anymore after this expansion. It's just NOT FAIR.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

Because I don't have any other option? I will mod them to how they were if the actual devs don't listen. You really think I was happy playing with my character changed? Because it made me want to quit. His expressions in the cutscenes are not the same, this is not the character I have been playing for years. This is not him, and no matter how many fantasias they throw at me, I can't fix his eyes. It's saddens me, it makes me depressed and not want to play. I want my character back, if this continues and they don't listen, I won't play anymore after this expansion. It's just NOT FAIR.

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I mean, you're still choosing to play the game ultimately.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying to quit. I'm just saying that if it genuinely bothered anyone in here, I don't understand the mindset of still continuing to play the game with the character you're trying to protest over. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me and shows that you're still willing to compromise and be okay with things. It's like if a healer in the healer strike still played healer despite posting tons of comments hating on healer.

So is this something that is genuinely going to upset people for a while or will we be back to normal in a week or two?

P.S. If you are feeling depressed over something, it's probably better to not force yourself to do that thing and take some time for self-care. Not being depressed and feeling happy and satisfied with life is more important than a video game character.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

But yall are still gonna go play with your characters right?

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I haven’t. I played about 2 or 3 hours in early access before I gave up and admitted I just wasn’t feelin it. I gave it a real honest try, even tried gaslighting myself that I could get used to it. No success. My attachment to my character is gone and that was pretty integral to my enjoyment of the game. I enjoyed the story and the glams and the adventure because I felt immersed in it all through my attachment to my character. My friends are trying to get me interested again, even buying me game time. But this is the kind of game that many people will enjoy for different reasons and my foundational reason is gone now. Best I can do is try to make reasonable outreaches here and do my best to offer feedback in hopes that they will tweak my features.

But you gotta be subbed and active in game at least every other week to even post here and leave that feedback so…

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

I haven’t. I played about 2 or 3 hours in early access before I gave up and admitted I just wasn’t feelin it. I gave it a real honest try, even tried gaslighting myself that I could get used to it. No success. My attachment to my character is gone and that was pretty integral to my enjoyment of the game. I enjoyed the story and the glams and the adventure because I felt immersed in it all through my attachment to my character. My friends are trying to get me interested again, even buying me game time. But this is the kind of game that many people will enjoy for different reasons and my foundational reason is gone now.

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And this is the first person I will take seriously.

So many heartless people who don't understand the attachment other people can have to their characters and their appearance

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

And this is the first person I will take seriously.

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Hey you should probably take anyone seriously who are being sincere about how they feel. Maybe I seem more palatable because I’m civil and articulate, but you don’t have to quit playing like I have so far for complaints or feedback to be valid. As long as someone truly feels and means what they say, their opinion is valuable, yours included.

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Originally Posted by Aurumis

It's not unhealthy, if you don't understand about it better not comment on attachment or go talk with a psychologist to understand why it's not bad.

And yes, they have changed beyond recognition[...]

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If such a small face change has people up in arms and sobbing all night (in another thread a poster literally claimed that), what will happen when the servers eventually go down?!

Or what do you say to your partner in life if he/she changes her make-up, hairstyle .. or heaven forbid: grows old and wrinkly.
"Sorry honey, your face has changed beyond recognition!" ...

It IS unhealthy, every psychologist will confirm this to you.

Yeah I'm not too thrilled with the shiny lips and the Cataract eyes myself. I deliberately picked "no lipstick" when I created my kitten and always loved her big, bottomless pupils.
But it's not the end of the world. Realistically, human lips do have a little shine to them. Certainly not "changed beyond recognition" WTF.

They definitely have some more work to do, but reverting ain't it. 95% of everything looks demonstrably better.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

If such a small face change has people up in arms and sobbing all night (in another thread a poster literally claimed that), what will happen when the servers eventually go down?!

Or what do you say to your partner in life if he/she changes her make-up, hairstyle .. or heaven forbid: grows old and wrinkly.
"Sorry honey, your face has changed beyond recognition!" ...

It IS unhealthy, every psychologist will confirm this to you.

Yeah I'm not too thrilled with the shiny lips and the Cataract eyes myself. I deliberately picked "no lipstick" when I created my kitten and always loved her big, bottomless pupils.
But it's not the end of the world. Realistically, human lips do have a little shine to them. Certainly not "changed beyond recognition" WTF.

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You’re calling others dramatic and over the top and then dropping hyperbolic posts like this? You should probably take a step back and re-engage later more civilly.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No offense, but that miqo face was emotionless even before the update.

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Thank you, finally someone said it loud and clear.

Also OP, don't you go on with the whole "We" business. You, you're the one with the issue in this matter.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

You’re calling others dramatic and over the top and then dropping hyperbolic posts like this? You should probably take a step back and re-engage later more civilly.

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This is me being civil. He started the hyperbole, I merely responded in kind to make it obvious how absurd his claims are.
People rage in here for days now over the smallest of details, blowing them completely out of proportion.
You can't expect the DEVs to rake you seriously when minute changes are moaned about as "unrecognizable".

So far, the only really valid complaints I've seen were bad Elezen face texture quality (green splotches, which are compression artifacts) and a rather embarrassing bug on Au'Ra hands.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

This is me being civil. He started the hyperbole, I merely responded in kind to make it obvious how absurd his claims are.
People rage in here for days now over the smallest of details, blowing them completely out of proportion.
You can't expect the DEVs to rake you seriously when minute changes are moaned about as "unrecognizable".

So far, the only really valid complaints I've seen were bad Elezen face texture quality (green splotches, which are compression artifacts) and a rather embarrassing bug on Au'Ra hands.

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Valid in your eyes is subjective. What you observe to be problems or not is subjective. Others will have differing experiences and notice different things. Come to terms with that. I saw you being toxic and I spoke up. I think you should re-examine how you’re engaging with others.

Count me another who likes the new models.

I tend to view this as my character having aged very slightly and matured a little - I feel the new look has ever so slightly shifted her toward looking a little more mature than she did pre-DT:
https://i.imgur.com/dDYIW0r.png

But that's just my view on the matter.

They are never changing it back. Too many folks love their updated characters and to drastically change things now would risk everyone having to fantasia again.

I want my old Au Ra face back. Before 7.0 my characters body never clipped with outfits. Now in Dawntrail cutscenes I can see my shoulders and neck clipping thru outfits.

If they do that then we will just see a "Give us back the DT models NOW" thread. Can't please everyone - I'm in the pro update crowd, if they went back, I'd be unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Cheapshot

Valid in your eyes is subjective. What you observe to be problems or not is subjective. Others will have differing experiences and notice different things. Come to terms with that. I saw you being toxic and I spoke up. I think you should re-examine how you’re engaging with others.

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You are not wrong ... but not right either. You need to differentiate between obvious issues and matters related to personal taste.

A part of Auri hands not being colored correctly and heavy compression artifacts on Elezen faces and the baked reflections bugging the housing lighting are OBJECTIVE issues.
Everyone can see them and they are BUGS that need to be FIXED.

You disliking the lips being shiny or how the light displays the mesh or me disliking the slightly clouded new Keeper eyes are SUBJECTIVE issues and we are entering the realm "some may like it, others may not".

There is no "right" and no "wrong" in this area.
Change it now: you may be happy but others may be unhappy and take your place in here and complain about these 2nd round of changes and round and round we go. No matter what SE does here, it's impossible to please all of us.

The best we can hope for, is that SE expands upon the options available for all players but knowing their track record, I would not hold my breath on that one.

Your only other option would be occult, forbidden practices. Your friendly neighborhood beast tribe shaman will be able to tell you more.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

I want my old Au Ra face back. Before 7.0 my characters body never clipped with outfits. Now in Dawntrail cutscenes I can see my shoulders and neck clipping thru outfits.

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Yeah that sounds like a bug (bone weighting issue, to be exact) that needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

And this is the first person I will take seriously.

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No one asked or cares whose feedback you take seriously. It's not for you, it's for the devs who told us to post it.

The same goes to anyone else who is under the misconception that their opinion about someone else's character, feedback or playstyle matters.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Count me another who likes the new models.

I tend to view this as my character having aged very slightly and matured a little - I feel the new look has ever so slightly shifted her toward looking a little more mature than she did pre-DT:
https://i.imgur.com/dDYIW0r.png

But that's just my view on the matter.

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I love this idea. After everything WoL went throught, the idea that they matured and learned from everything really sells it.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The same goes to anyone else who is under the misconception that their opinion about someone else's character, feedback or playstyle matters.

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Of course providing a counter point matters, if the other person clamors for changes that might affect me as well.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Of course providing a counter point matters, if the other person clamors for changes that might affect me as well.

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You'd have a point if the counter points were just people commenting on their own race and not a-holes gatekeeping feedback that doesn't concern them.

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

There is no evidence to suggest that 7.0 was animated with the old models, there is no evidence that they had to redo an entire cutscene to slap an updated expression on it- bringing shareholders into the argument to make it sound more reasonable is just moving into fanfiction tier. This entire reasoning is nothing but baseless speculation for an excuse

It's patch 7.0, these improved expressions promised in 7.0 are not here. That's all there is to it

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The fact that they didn't take advantage of new updated models, a selling point of the entire expansion, is pretty big evidence that they models weren't finished in time to actually use them. We can also look back to all the problems people had during the first benchmark just a few months ago, which would've been well after the point that 99.9% of the work for the expansion was done, for more evidence that they weren't ready. And if you actually think that money isn't a motivating factor in every decision SE makes about the game, I have to conclude that you don't know how corporations work.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The fact that they didn't take advantage of new updated models, a selling point of the entire expansion, is pretty big evidence that they models weren't finished in time to actually use them. We can also look back to all the problems people had during the first benchmark just a few months ago, which would've been well after the point that 99.9% of the work for the expansion was done, for more evidence that they weren't ready. And if you actually think that money isn't a motivating factor in every decision SE makes about the game, I have to conclude that you don't know how corporations work.

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A likely story. And complete speculation on your behalf again, based on nothing but your imagination and idea that you have any clue as to what's going on inside SE right now.
How about you quit making up excuses on behalf of SE and demand a better product? Or even, the product that you paid for?

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

A likely story. And complete speculation on your behalf again, based on nothing but your imagination and idea that you have any clue as to what's going on inside SE right now.
How about you quit making up excuses on behalf of SE and demand a better product? Or even, the product that you paid for?

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You say excuses, I say applying logic. There is absolutely no reason they wouldn't take advantage of the new facial rigging if it had been available in time, especially considering how often food comes up in the MSQ. They didn't. You can get mad, or you can think about why. And the age-old "SE is just lazy" story is just as speculative while offering no shred of logic.

I know "outrage before reason" is just how the internet is, but if people stopped getting mad as their first response, it'd be so much easier to take these forums seriously.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

You say excuses, I say applying logic. There is absolutely no reason they wouldn't take advantage of the new facial rigging if it had been available in time, especially considering how often food comes up in the MSQ. They didn't. You can get mad, or you can think about why. And the age-old "SE is just lazy" story is just as speculative while offering no shred of logic.

I know "outrage before reason" is just how the internet is, but if people stopped getting mad as their first response, it'd be so much easier to take these forums seriously.

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That so called "logic" falls apart immediately when you apply it to any aspect of this game. You can think of a million ways that this game would be easily improved, and a million ways why "they didn't do it already".
Meaningless speculation is useless, the only thing which is of any concern is what's delivered, and what we have here now.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

You'd have a point if the counter points were just people commenting on their own race and not a-holes gatekeeping feedback that doesn't concern them.

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No one is "Gatekeeping" anything, since no one here can actually hinder another person from posting.
Spare me the Social Media nonsense buzzwords.

Fact is: I don't want the old models back. I don't want the old lighting back.
I like the new models and I am looking forward to SE actually capitalizing on their capabilities (kind of a bummer that they don't, chars even have actually rigged tongues now Oo).

SE can go ham in terms of adding more options, I'll never be against more variety but I DO NOT WANT CHANGES to what is there right just to please a few people that are obsessed. And I am certain that I am not alone with this sentiment.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

You say excuses, I say applying logic. There is absolutely no reason they wouldn't take advantage of the new facial rigging if it had been available in time, especially considering how often food comes up in the MSQ.

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There is another theory: SE wants to introduce things in a more gradual way.
Right now some things about the models changed, there is no denying that. By sticking to the old animations for now, SE doesn't exacerbate the perception of "everything changed OMG where is my character!"

I vividly remember being quite displeased not just with the new model of my Draenei but specifically her new animations that changed her character much more than any model could.

If people are raging about some mouth being a few mm shorter, imagine them raging against new animation work that goes completely against their imagined WOL behavior.

Not sure if SE will ever have the courage to go ham with animations for our WoL during MSQ or whether they restrict themselves to optional emotes and NPCs.

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Originally Posted by Alesandra

We never asked to destroy the game like this, so many years being so perfectly good and now is pure sad and irritating to play with these cartoonish, foolish, emotionless and lifeless models

Why?

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New models are better and absolutely close enough to the old ones to pass as "the same character". 98% of people wouldn't notice if you changed details of their character without telling them. I have been using the same moonie face 3 since 2014 and, while it was weird to see it changed to the new model for the first hour or so, I really can't get over how much better the characters look now. Especially the eyes. New models are 10/10.

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

That so called "logic" falls apart immediately when you apply it to any aspect of this game. You can think of a million ways that this game would be easily improved, and a million ways why "they didn't do it already".
Meaningless speculation is useless, the only thing which is of any concern is what's delivered, and what we have here now.

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I freely mention my complaints when relevant, but when there's a simple and fairly obvious reason for something, I make note of that too. What can I say, I have more important things to get mad about than a video game. Meaningless outrage is as useless as meaningless speculation, it just requires less thought.

i think they need to touch the models up some more, not just smooth them out and make them shiny
add actual tone to them and more hairstyles unique to them, more options overall. and better eyebrows.

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Originally Posted by Alesandra

We never asked to destroy the game like this, so many years being so perfectly good and now is pure sad and irritating to play with these cartoonish, foolish, emotionless and lifeless models

Why?

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Give me back my chocolate, I prefer the other one there...
Hmm...

The thing I’m not getting is, if so many of you are telling others that the changes are so little and subtle that you don’t even notice them, then why be so hostile to people who want a few more subtle changes to recapture some of their original look? You didn’t notice or care about the differences so why would you notice or care about more? The lighting and some of the textures are improved. Your characters are still going to look “better”.

Bemoaning people complaining that they were attached to the features they spent years with sounds a bit silly coming from people acting attached to features they’ve spent a week with.

if the old textures were optional and dont affect people who like them, i see no harm in giving them back to players who want them

I get it, i was attached to face 4 on miqo but it isn't as pretty now so I swapped faces

I'm very happy with my new model.

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Originally Posted by Alesandra

We never asked to destroy the game like this, so many years being so perfectly good and now is pure sad and irritating to play with these cartoonish, foolish, emotionless and lifeless models

Why?

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They really could have done better.