Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

Wuk is good for the dev team, she is a lightning rod of hate that will keep people from thinking about how boring the whole storys been so far. Think about vauthry/ardbert/elidibus/zenos/yotsuyu/emet and some of the companions we had in other expansions. Now compare it to this trash. They even gave us the worst scions to hang out with.

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Originally Posted by Swad

Wuk is good for the dev team, she is a lightning rod of hate that will keep people from thinking about how boring the whole storys been so far. Think about vauthry/ardbert/elidibus/zenos/yotsuyu/emet and some of the companions we had in other expansions. Now compare it to this trash. They even gave us the worst scions to hang out with.

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The character is only complete -redacted- in the EN version, not the JP version.

Not a lightning anything, just annoying. A character that should be redone with a real woman that knows how to voice act like in the JP version.

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Originally Posted by Graveyardprincess

A. Naruto wasnt written good are you joking lol the dude legit by the end dismisses everything from the past Exams: neji to naruto its fate wrather w/e happans it was destiny "naruto no its not" by the end everything neji said was right naruto was born to be hokage has the strongest tailed beast- family of kages basiclly and neji sacrficed himself like his father proving destiny just one example of how bad that was written.

B. if you think being stupid is her only trait your not paying attention to the dt story at all lol, she more empathic and ya "dumb" amongest other traits your just hung up on when because admitly se goes overboard with comunity ...


and c. your opinion is auto trash by consinder naruto good written lol Wuk is 50x better written from what ive seen than naruto was lol anyone who says naruto was good written is just stupid af lol.


Wuk is emotionally driven and Im willing to bet if she was given the damn personality test that some ppl had to take she would fall under infp

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I see you are trying to persuade us with a detailed, well structured, ad hominem-free debate. I look forward to your next entry ...

No, Wuk Lamat is not the problem. it is Krile, she is easily the worst character ever written.

Ok in the Japanese version she's now seriously growing on me. I'm still in the beginning (alpaca village) but she already sounds a lot more balanced and realistic to my ears. Significantly less over the top and more humble. I think the voice acting does a good job conveying that and makes her come across very endearing now.

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Originally Posted by Brian25

No, Wuk Lamat is not the problem. it is Krile, she is easily the worst character ever written.

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The reason I play in Japanese wasn't to avoid Wuk Lamat's VA, I dislike her character but have no problem with her voice. Krile's English VA is the reason. I have always hate her voice and won't be able to stomach it for a whole expansion. I don't know the reason or intention behind the English casting for Krile, but she sounds like the exact opposite of her Japanese VA.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Ok in the Japanese version she's now seriously growing on me. I'm still in the beginning (alpaca village) but she already sounds a lot more balanced and realistic to my ears. Significantly less over the top and more humble. I think the voice acting does a good job conveying that and makes her come across very endearing now.

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In my experience the reason why Japanese VA tend to sound better is because they have a simple job - and that is just be their characters. But English VA seems to always be saddled with a bunch of extra baggage on top of that, for example it's known that English VA has to match whatever regional/race accent that imposed on them for some imaginary reason . In some case when it works out, it does elevate the performance above the Japanese VA, but most of them just come across forced and flat.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Ok in the Japanese version she's now seriously growing on me. I'm still in the beginning (alpaca village) but she already sounds a lot more balanced and realistic to my ears. Significantly less over the top and more humble. I think the voice acting does a good job conveying that and makes her come across very endearing now.

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I've been playing on JP dub the whole time now. I admit, she is a still clumsy and derpy.
But I can definetly say, she is very lighthearted person and her character growth begins somewhat later. Plus, she stops complaining too.
I don't know where the hate comes from, but my gripe is rather that we're being used as an errand boy, not really as an adventurer. Hope this will change further down the story.

I agree with the thread starter. Wuk Lamat is catastrophy and i have no motivation to play the MSQ further. -.- It kills the immersion for me to be forced to support someone who is so awkward and stupid like her. I still hope, that she will turn evil and i can kill her. It would be really a redemption for such a miserable existence.



Cheers

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

The problem isn't that she's stupid, there are plenty of well written stupid characters in fiction, whether that be Hodor, Naruto, the Hulk or Forrest Gump. The problem is that it never works well to have a character whose sole defining trait is their stupidity. In order to not just annoy viewers they need some connective character trait so the viewer/player can feel a hook and look past their stupidity (or goofiness) and find them lovable (for want of better term). She's pretty shallow at this point and hasn't really shown any such trait, she hasn't struggled or been persecuted like a Hulk or a Hodor so you can't feel bad for her, she also isn't really earnest or oblivious or loyal or courageous like Forrest or Naruto so you can't see her as "worthy". You may find some element of relatability in her which is good, so she'll be a good character for you but a lot of other people see no real trait other than "goofy and stupid" which works badly by its lonesome.

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Yeah, she is naïve and perhaps a bit stupid - I don't like the over emphasis on 'goofy' overly much, but that leaves her wide open for character development.

Eitherway, I'm enjoying it so far. Fair enough that there are plenty who feel that this one character ruins the whole setting - each to their own; by the same token 'I' quite like her and am hoping the slow shift away from the 'goofy' behaviour in favour of the subtle character development starting to slip through the cracks will continue.

Even ProJared, who is an Endwalker apologist, is hating Dawntrail's first 3-levels worth of MSQ...

I'm not very far into the story. I just did the first dunegon. But seriously - the number of times someone had to pat her on the head and tell her she's not useless, while at the same time praising her for something she had barely any input in - its' just embarassing.
There is zero reasons my WoL would ever waste time trying to put ther on the throne. Zero.





We should have just skip her in 6.55 and do it all about Krile's letter. Then when we get to Tural, the king can blackmail us - either we help Wuk or there's no chance we ever find the golden city. That would make more sense then just blindly agreeing to support her because reasons...

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

I've been playing on JP dub the whole time now. I admit, she is a still clumsy and derpy.
But I can definetly say, she is very lighthearted person and her character growth begins somewhat later. Plus, she stops complaining too.
I don't know where the hate comes from, but my gripe is rather that we're being used as an errand boy, not really as an adventurer. Hope this will change further down the story.

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Yeah I can totally see what you mean. She is certainly still clumsy and dorky but, hm, how do I put it, she sounds closer like a real person to me in JPN? As in, her clumsy traits definitely come through but they sound a bit more realistic/restrained/toned-down vs. very clear "roleplay" acting that often exaggerates character traits and dialogues beyond how a person would articulate themselves in everyday life.
I'm glad to hear she has character growth later on.

And yep, totally agree on the errand boy part.
I'm happy we have Erenville as your perpetually grumpy commentator though. He is a true hater and criticises everything. Very relatable.

I personally think that every time Wuk Lamat isn't on screen, a character should ask "Where's Wuk Lamat"?

Oh and we should give her a time machine too.

Jokes aside, this is the worst Poochie I've seen in a while.

By the way, the game is not doing well on Steam.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I agree with the thread starter. Wuk Lamat is catastrophy and i have no motivation to play the MSQ further. -.- It kills the immersion for me to be forced to support someone who is so awkward and stupid like her. I still hope, that she will turn evil and i can kill her. It would be really a redemption for such a miserable existence.



Cheers

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arnt you cheery

I've found a really really easy way of making Puke on the Mat more tolerable. All you need to do is the following, every time a cutscene starts which she's in, you press the escape key and then click yes. Works almost every time.

I personally like her :3

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I personally like her :3

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Then I hate to be the one to tell you this, you have awful taste. She is intrinsically a poorly written character, she has zero redeeming qualities, no real addition to the plot, she does nothing useful, offers nothing of value but we are expected to root for her because guys, she really really cares. Who wrote this, I can't imagine it was the same people that wrote shb because this is literally trash. She's written as if she is a 14 year old girls self instead fan fic.

The warrior of light is on her side, because he believes in her, thanks for making that decision about my character for me. We have no reason to get involved in any of this political stuff. The idea is we are on and adventure, remember when we went to literally the end of the universe, well apparently that wasn't adventurous enough so now we climb a mountain path trading alpaca wool, lol aren't we so funny uwu. Jesus I don't think I've seen worse writing since WoW shadowlands. Also can anyone further in the story than myself answer a simple question, does anyone at any point in time mention the monsters that came down from the sky like a year ago that turned people into monstrosities and was trying to destroy the world? Cause it definitely feels like it's all being a just don't think about it.

Jannies seem slow on the uptake on this one. Glad we can just wish other (non-fictional) people dead and get away with it.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Jannies seem slow on the uptake on this one. Glad we can just wish other (non-fictional) people dead and get away with it.

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In Minecraft. I miss mid 2000s forum/BBS trolling. It's now a lost art.

Wuk Lamat is a great character and without saying anything bad about the other expansions, then this one is way better than anything else we got.

Stop creating problems, where there is none and apparently the OP and likewise others did not pay attention to the story as well at all.


EDIT:
Also most persons here has something against everything if it is not a male who is in charge of stuff, it is kind of pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Wuk Lamat is a great character and without saying anything bad about the other expansions, then this one is way better than anything else we got.

Stop creating problems, where there is none and apparently the OP and likewise others did not pay attention to the story as well at all.

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Explain how she is a good character please, plenty here have explained how she is a terribly written one from a pure literary standpoint. So please explain to the class how she is anything but a 2d uwu meme creation by someone who needs to be made redundant?

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Wuk Lamat is a great character and without saying anything bad about the other expansions, then this one is way better than anything else we got.

Stop creating problems, where there is none and apparently the OP and likewise others did not pay attention to the story as well at all.

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I kind of see your point. In a vacuum I think she isn't bad. However, the way we are written into the story with her is really flawed. I'm not sure if the authors really intended to "Poochie" her but they did it anyways to probably not intended outcomes. I jokingly called G'raha Tia Poochie Tia in the past before during ShB and post ShB content, but Wuk is easily worse. Though G'raha actually did have a time machine.

A good character should have flaws but also redeeming qualities, Puke has none. She would have been fine if she was left as a character you meet for 5m and helps you get a boat to the continent then leaves, but as a main character of an expac she is pure 2D garbage.

In fact I believe she's what haurchefant would have been if he didn't rightly get killed of. A tedious 2d character shoved in your face every 5s

Now I remember who Wuk Lamat reminds me off ... she's basically Widargelt 2.0, someone who can't do anything without a constant injection of positive reinforcement. Heck, I won't be surprise if it's the same writer behind both of them, the similarity is ... uncanny. Widargelt is one of the main reasons why I don't miss job quest.

Wuk Lamat probably will be developed into something decent, that's almost certain, but I don't think the bad taste will ever leave my tongue. First impression is important, because you only get it one. You don't have to start a character at the bottom to have room for growth and development. Or maybe the writer know Wuk Lamat is an average character so they have to start her at the bottom and the only way to go is up.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Explain how she is a good character please, plenty here have explained how she is a terribly written one from a pure literary standpoint. So please explain to the class how she is anything but a 2d uwu meme creation by someone who needs to be made redundant?

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Pretty much everything, is good, I don't need to go into details, maybe you don't like it, but most of all you are either stubborn, a troll, or simply rushed to 100 skipping every little bit of the game, my take is that is not exactly American or close to British English that is your problem... which I am happy for that they went in directions of giving her and others a heavy accent, which has been seriously needed.


Stop claiming that you actually took part in the story, because it is clear, that you did not.

EDIT:
Also you must be an elderly person, who is extreme conservative, it shows, I am in my 40s as well, and I like the approach and different ways we get, I like and love change.
And if not Elderly, extreme conservative youth, that need to open the eyes to the world, be it isolated too much in own country or not, there is a whole new world out there for you to explore.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Wuk Lamat is a great character and without saying anything bad about the other expansions, then this one is way better than anything else we got.

Stop creating problems, where there is none and apparently the OP and likewise others did not pay attention to the story as well at all.


EDIT:
Also most persons here has something against everything if it is not a male who is in charge of stuff, it is kind of pathetic.

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Yeah, stop creating problems by giving your opinions folks! All you sexists just need to read the story! Maybe then you can appreciate how one naive catgirl goes from being stupid and liking peace to... Being slightly less stupid and liking peace. This is the riveting character development we've all been waiting for!

I'm toward the end of the MSQ and her "development" is as basic and boring as you can get. I like Dawntrail overall, but Wuk Lamat is a blackhole that actively destroys any interesting writing and turns all the other characters into infantilized mouthpieces that spout platitudes like "friends are important" and "everyone is special" and "peace is good" around. I dislike her as a character, but I really hate her for her affect on the overall story and characters.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Pretty much everything, is good, I don't need to go into details, maybe you don't like it, but most of all you are either stubborn, a troll, or simply rushed to 100 skipping every little bit of the game, my take is that is not exactly American or close to British English that is your problem... which I am happy for that they went in directions of giving her and others a heavy accent, which has been seriously needed.


Stop claiming that you actually took part in the story, because it is clear, that you did not.

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First of all I tried I skipped nothing in the crappy first zone but had to close the game take a break and retry to push through, twice. From that point on yeah I am just zoning out on the story until she becomes less relevant, by some miracle is a completely different character or dies. Pretty much everything is not an example of something being well written. She has no redeeming qualities. Not rushing through still only level 92, in the second zone. Also I resent your implication that I dislike her cause of her accent, I've not mentioned that once, in fact I'm probably one of the few that doesn't have an issue with the VA, it's not amazing but I don't think it's the problem with the character, a VA can't do jack if the writing was done by someone in highschool.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

First of all I tried I skipped nothing in the crappy first zone but had to close the game take a break and retry to push through, twice. From that point on yeah I am just zoning out on the story until she becomes less relevant, by some miracle is a completely different character or dies. Pretty much everything is not an example of something being well written. She has no redeeming qualities. Not rushing through still only level 92, in the second zone. Also I resent your implication that I dislike her cause of her accent, I've not mentioned that once, in fact I'm probably one of the few that doesn't have an issue with the VA, it's not amazing but I don't think it's the problem with the character, a VA can't do jack if the writing was done by someone in highschool.

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Then your claims is false and irrelevant.

The elderly 40 year old with many posts has spoken, FFXIV is saved.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Then your claims is false and irrelevant.

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What?
That response didn't even make sense, what claims are false. That she's a 2D poorly written background NPC that's been pushed to the front of the plot?

She has no depth, her entire story to this point is, I want to lead my people because I do. She impulsive, ignorant of the world around her, insecure, again basically written as a cliché of a teenager.
I asked you to name a single redeeming character trait that she has and you couldn't

I'm torn honestly.

Her consistent, early on self-deprication and mewlings gets really grating. I believe I understand from the perspective of the writers. Wuk Lamat is supposed to be a sort of foil for the Warrior of Light and the Scions in general, too. She's not some battle-hardened hero, slayer of gods, or diplomatic savant. She's a young girl who is in over her head and having to learn that the world is far more vast, intriguing and complicated than her proverbial back yard.

However, as someone who regularly plays other JRPGs alongside this game, that is a very tired and overused trope that I really didn't want to see used in this game.

The issue is compounded by Sena Bryer's lackluster delivery. She's fine a majority of the time, but my god.. I don't know if her Wuk Lamat is far removed from her normal voice or if she's just very amateurish and not skilled at projection, but every time her character has to yell or just speak beyond a normal six-inch voice it sounds absolutely horrendous and forced. Completely takes you out of the experience.

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Originally Posted by Tsurayu

I'm torn honestly.

Her consistent, early on self-deprication and mewlings gets really grating. I believe I understand from the perspective of the writers. Wuk Lamat is supposed to be a sort of foil for the Warrior of Light and the Scions in general, too. She's not some battle-hardened hero, slayer of gods, or diplomatic savant. She's a young girl who is in over her head and having to learn that the world is far more vast, intriguing and complicated than her proverbial back yard.

However, as someone who regularly plays other JRPGs alongside this game, that is a very tired and overused trope that I really didn't want to see used in this game.

The issue is compounded by Sena Bryer's lackluster delivery. She's fine a majority of the time, but my god.. I don't know if her Wuk Lamat is far removed from her normal voice or if she's just very amateurish and not skilled at projection, but every time her character has to yell or just speak beyond a normal six-inch voice it sounds absolutely horrendous and forced. Completely takes you out of the experience.

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They should have just made her a gate guards style character imo, someone who brings the characters into the city, has some occasional appearances early on and fades into the background as the story progresses. Either that or they needed to seriously work on her as a character, cause as it stands it's just dragging every other character down.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Then I hate to be the one to tell you this, you have awful taste. She is intrinsically a poorly written character, she has zero redeeming qualities, no real addition to the plot, she does nothing useful, offers nothing of value but we are expected to root for her because guys, she really really cares. Who wrote this, I can't imagine it was the same people that wrote shb because this is literally trash. She's written as if she is a 14 year old girls self instead fan fic.

The warrior of light is on her side, because he believes in her, thanks for making that decision about my character for me. We have no reason to get involved in any of this political stuff. The idea is we are on and adventure, remember when we went to literally the end of the universe, well apparently that wasn't adventurous enough so now we climb a mountain path trading alpaca wool, lol aren't we so funny uwu. Jesus I don't think I've seen worse writing since WoW shadowlands. Also can anyone further in the story than myself answer a simple question, does anyone at any point in time mention the monsters that came down from the sky like a year ago that turned people into monstrosities and was trying to destroy the world? Cause it definitely feels like it's all being a just don't think about it.

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Sooo... something that is 100% completely subjective makes me or anyone else for that matter have bad taste?

We all have our opinions, and we should be respectful for other people's opinions, not belittle them, else what does that say about your character as a person?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Sooo... something that is 100% completely subjective makes me or anyone else for that matter have bad taste?

We all have our opinions, and we should be respectful for other people's opinions, not belittle them, else what does that say about your character as a person?

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It's not subjective, it's objectively true that she is a 2D character, which is why I asked the other people who claimed they liked her to point out any actual well written aspect to her character that provides any kind of depth, I'm still waiting for an answer, feel free to be the person that gives one. I was mainly being abit tongue-in-cheek with you, at the end of the day like what you like, there are some absolutely trash tv shows that I binge watch and get enjoyment from, but I'm well aware they are terribly written, there's just something about them I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

What?
That response didn't even make sense, what claims are false. That she's a 2D poorly written background NPC that's been pushed to the front of the plot?

She has no depth, her entire story to this point is, I want to lead my people because I do. She impulsive, ignorant of the world around her, insecure, again basically written as a cliché of a teenager.
I asked you to name a single redeeming character trait that she has and you couldn't

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guess if a you think it is a teenage cliche, i guess those are better written than 99% of things anymore, because honestly she is perfect being impulisve and emotional driven are good because its honest.. unlike how old people hide behind the mask of bs. Honestly she is extremely well written you should go watch some monster high movies and read vampire kisses/the summoning then you will learn why she is perfect

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Originally Posted by Malthir

It's not subjective, it's objectively true that she is a 2D character, which is why I asked the other people who claimed they liked her to point out any actual well written aspect to her character that provides any kind of depth, I'm still waiting for an answer, feel free to be the person that gives one.

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I don't have to engage in any conversation I don't want too, especially with a rude person that has such lack of respect of other people's opinions, in any rate hope you enjoy what you like.

I am simply enjoy the game and the journey of it all. And with that, I bid you adieu.

The story is pretty awful without even considering Wuk.

This has to be a bait post.

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Originally Posted by Graveyardprincess

guess if a you think it is a teenage cliche, i guess those are better written than 99% of things anymore, because honestly she is perfect being impulisve and emotional driven are good because its honest.. unlike how old people hide behind the mask of bs. Honestly she is extremely well written you should go watch some monster high movies and read vampire kisses/the summoning then you will learn why she is perfect

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You absolutely do not want impulsive and emotionally vulnerable leaders.

Just give Machiavelli a read and it will change your perspective on what an effective leader has to think about.

The greatest example I want to give of an impulsive and emotionally unstable/vulnerable leader is the fabled Austrian Painter himself. You can probably find essays on his mental well being as well as his impulsive nature; hell the entire Eastern Front just speaks for itself.

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Originally Posted by Graveyardprincess

guess if a you think it is a teenage cliche, i guess those are better written than 99% of things anymore, because honestly she is perfect being impulisve and emotional driven are good because its honest..

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It's called naive. Kid are wonderfully innocent, that also make them easy to manipulate. Also let me remind you some very simple fact of life:

- For someone to be old, they had to be young before.

- But someone who is still young, they had never been old before.

It mean chance is, the same people you are arguing against once upon a time, thought exact the same way you do ... until they grew up. But you have never had a chance to think like they do. Seeing you show so much hate for the old and growth up, you better brace yourself so you don't end up hating yourself in another decade or two. Unless you believe you're someone super special that would be able to avoid the path countless generation had walked before you, in that case you should think about running for president heh?

This is becoming my Graveyardprincess popcorn thread. It's like looking back at my sister's scene days in middle school.