Bring back deleveling in 2.0

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

The only reason I can think you or anyone would hate that is because you/they haven't played FFXI.

It was awesome. Not having it is moving backwards.

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I played XI for years. Owned an Aegis too if that speaks to my playtime. Led one of the most successful linkshells on Titan server too. Bad assumption is bad.

No! You want hardcore!? how about this, when you die your character dies for good! Or your account gets deleted!! That will make you not want to die!!!
Joke aside.. I would not like this at all, dying is a part of learning the game.. you find out what should not be done, punishing people to re level is dumb. Do not add it or add it to a 'Hardcore' server, where exp gains are lower and Xp loss and de level on death. Having that will show you just how many like it, and maybe show you how many more hate it.

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Originally Posted by Yves

Ok, here's a solution: you can only repair your own gear.

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That's not what I'd call a great idea especially because it helps alienate crafters even more.

It doesn't have to be tied to exp loss, I suggested it could be tied to a number of things.

Anima loss for one, hell make it something instead of a penalty for death give a reward for living. Give us a signet style buff so we can attain company seals while we gain exp only obtainable in town. It's a permanent buff and doesn't wear off UNLESS you die.

Obviously it's not a crippling effect and wont stop death in instanced content from being a laughable hinderance, perhaps your death could be tied into adding a few minutes to your entrance timer? Maybe if nobody dies during a run they could shave a few minutes off your total run time making speed-runs easier to accomplish (Although not getting killed is kind of part in parcel with speed runs)

There needs to be some way that me or anyone else might want to double check what we are doing before we get ourselves killed. If it's not exp it could be any number of things, just leaving it as a minor hinderance just encourages people to ram through everything without a care in the world.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

There needs to be some way that me or anyone else might want to double check what we are doing before we get ourselves killed. If it's not exp it could be any number of things, just leaving it as a minor hinderance just encourages people to ram through everything without a care in the world.

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The point of any game is to not get killed. And in addition we already have a penalty regardless if you die or not.

Perhaps they should boost the damage rate on gears.

Just no! There have to be other ways to bring back more fear of dying..

No please. Hated that in XI

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Originally Posted by urtv

xp is so easy to come by that deleveling is useless

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Nah, just do 40% exp lost ^^

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

I played XI for years. Owned an Aegis too if that speaks to my playtime. Led one of the most successful linkshells on Titan server too. Bad assumption is bad.

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Cool story, brah.

Given I think Levelling should be drop'd in favour of quest/story/achivment based development in most games... No!

The idea of a penalty is something i really do like the sound of.
The idea of losing a fight should get your heart rate up at least a little, even in PvP in most mmo's its meh. (but their are mmos or at least a mmo out, that give you that oh SH*** when you realise your dead.)

Random though (not a great one but anyway)
What if it was some alternative pool though (spirit/life gauge?), What if we had something that effects TP generation.
(gauge at 10%=3% faster TP gain or mana regen, with current generation is dropped to balance this)
Also this gauge is used specifically to preform new WS's (not omg super specials though) maybe that have some sort of debuff that last with a whole engagement.
Death = a 25% loss of the armount you have.
So you can either have some powerful new Debuffs or faster regen/gain as long as you don't die a lot. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

The only reason I can think you or anyone would hate that is because you/they haven't played FFXI.

It was awesome. Not having it is moving backwards.

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I played FFXI for 9 years as well as other MMOs and I agree with Grey Jorildyn. Honestly, the xp loss wasn't as punishing as anyone here seems to think it was or remembers.

Saying not having it is moving backwards, please provide evidence of this? Tangible, empirical evidence as well. More than, "I felt that" or "Well from my experience". Making bold sweeping statements like "Not having it is moving backwards" w/o data to back it up is fairly hollow.

I'd rather not have this. Just saying.

The more times you die... you get a debuff that increases sales tax on everything in the game. Including a price cut from people purchasing from your retainers.

And you guys speak of measly "EXP loss", pssshhhhh



...but srsly, at this point in time in both FF14 AND FF11, EXP loss would be/is redundant considering the rate of EXP.

It would be nice if they could just get rid of the repair system all together. If i had to choose though, i'd take EXP loss. Repairing is such a waste of time & very annoying.

Wait, so de-leveling became endgame? wut?!

DLV a Tank full Darklight armor on midle on the crystal tower event!!!!!!!!!! omg you are soo smart....


DLV was made to split noobs from pros on ffxi but just show dont work as a evaluation sistem cos usualy i saw over a 100 times

Stanislav death... delv to lv74 and nude lol.....

relics + armor all on lv cap.... soo if in some way they manage to blindfool folllow your advise... we will playing FFnude remember we dont even has bonus exp on lv50 we cap at 49.99 lol

no thanks this wont be any original on this game orz

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Go play the only MMO with a death penalty

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Oh dear... god... it's you.

You were the death penalty on Valefor.

For the current version of FF14, there is no need for such things like losing exp, and i can tell you why.

Even the best players in this game, gonna die really often... the reason for this things are...

1) Unlimited TP moves for every Boss
2) Every single Boss has a 1shot Move
3) Annoying Serverlag (sometimes)

Here some other notes: SE should finally work on a good Hate Balance on tanks, you can have the best gear and 150 enmity and if the tank dies due one of the reasons above, there is no real chance to get the hate back w/o some others have to die (maybe on Coincounter if he reset hate lol).

Before asking for losing exp, SE has to work on the following points first:

1) Hate Balance
2) Combat System
3) Boss system
and get rid of the losing durability system, you already get punished by a death....
If you warp back or get raised by a non CON/WHM class you get a debuff (weakness)...
and you losing durability.

just my 2 cents

I hate delevel system, it's so dumb.

A debt system is easier.

The more you die, the higher you debt becomes.

Say you die as a 50 paladin, your exp debt is now 100,000 exp. you kill a mob worth 1000 exp. 500 exp goes to your actually level, while the other 500 goes to the debt. You will not get full exp until the debt is paid. If your level 50 the debt won't matter it won't go down cause your not gaining exp to your level bar. But when you try to level another class that isn't 50 then debt will become active.

Now there should be a limit, for example you die 10 times. That will be the maximum amount times till the exp debt will no longer go any higher. 100,000 exp debt each death x10 being the maximum deaths = 1 million exp debt to pay off.

no, and a pox on you for even suggesting it

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

Hey amy!
Coming from someone who has never even played FFXI, or doesn't play near 24/7 like I do.

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i really "LOLed" at this comment cause i immediately thought everyone should be impressed.

<.<....>.>.........

death could waste anima as well - more punish but still not so drastic as delevel :)

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Originally Posted by madolyn

i really "LOLed" at this comment cause i immediately thought everyone should be impressed.

<.<....>.>.........

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It must be nice to live in a world where you can use your 24/7 gaming addiction as bold stamp of superiority.

(I know I shouldn't judge, but still...)

Losing all buffs including food and most importantly, sanction, is enough of a penalty - not even counting continual repair costs. We don't need to exacerbate the problem.

This is a side attempt to get people to grind more, and in FFXI it only equated to a pointless and frustrating time sink.

More people from the grindmore camp trying to force people to play their way. Nothing to see here folks.

I would personally be fine with xp loss as a penalty.

Personally, it was never a big deal to me in XI, and I really don't understand why people get so up in arms about it. I find gear damage/repair to be more annoying. At least when you die and lose xp, you get up start fighting and within 20 minutes or so (in my experience) have your lost xp back.

I also wonder how often some people died with how violently they act out against it. I consider myself to have been a pretty average FFXI player. I wasn't "leet", but I wasn't "gimp" either. I knew my jobs and made reasonable preparations for groups or group events. I didn't study wiki guides, or follow "FoTM" job guides to the letter. In over seven years of playing XI, from its US PC release, I died a number of times, and de-leveled a few of them. So what?

I would say for every time I died, I leveled up at least 10 times, probably more. To me it was part of playing the game. It was part of the experience. It wasn't some horrible penalty or huge, red, glowing F! being stamped on me for making a mistake. It was simply a way for the game to have some bite that affected my character enough that I would make a conscious effort to not die again. Death penalty was a means of encouraging smarter and more tactical play, not a penalty for failure. Seeing how carelessly so many people engage in content in MMOs with lesser penalties, including XIV, no one's going to tell me that having a harsher one doesn't make a difference.

Unless someone's dying so often that it's literally preventing them from progressing ever, which I highly doubt - unless they're doing something very wrong, repeatedly - dying and, hence, losing xp was not that big a deal.

I just feel people are exaggerating the situatin and blowing xp loss way out of proportion. It was not that big a deal, in my opinion. But then, "getting to level cap and doing end-game ASAP" was not my sole driving goal, as it seems to be with many people these days. My goal was to log in and do whatever was enjoyable to me for the time I had that session.

As for xp loss stopping people from exploring or taking risks. Nonsense. FFXI had xp loss and people took risks and explored all the time, myself included. Lineage 2 had an xp loss that made XI's seem like a slap on the wrist, and people still took risks and explored in that game. The difference is people in those games simply chose their challenges more carefully and had more respect for the danger they'd face. Consequently, emerging on the other side of such an event was much more gratifying, because the stakes were that much steeper.

Regardless, the argument that people won't take risks with xp loss is completely unfounded and completely unsupportable. The facts don't support it. Maybe the people making that claim wouldn't explore as much, but then they should speak for themselves not and presume to speak for "everyone".

Please, no de-leveling ever. It doesn't make people play smarter or better, it makes them play only as well enough as they have to to not die. Good players play well for the sake of not being terrible at the game, not out of fear of a death penalty. Players who know what they're doing should do so regardless of the consequences of death.

If anything loss of XP/levels creates an unfriendly environment. People are quick to blame or hate others who may or may not have slipped up if it resulted in a death. People hate losing things they've worked for and if they can blame another for it they will. This also makes people afraid to try anything that could potentially get them killed, like anything other than the optimal party setup. People already don't like wandering far from the optimal setups or taking risks as it stands.

I don't see any upsides to de-leveling other than a masochistic kick in the balls after failure. Why do we need to be punished further for dying? Shouldn't we try to not die simply for the sake of not dying?

Deleveling simply does not fit in the game they are trying to create.

You would know this very well if you read the producer's letter.

A Million times no! EXP is easy to get, the gear damage is more a deterrence than de-leveling, the EXP gain in this game would have to go back to how it was at launch with fatigue for that to actually be such a burden on players. Yoshi has the game how it should be for dying, just because you die doesn't mean you should have to waste up to a few hours of your time grinding back your levels FFXI style.

Death = gil out of the economy/gives players another reason to level crafting. It's grand how it is.

No to delevel.

When it comes to death penalty, our opinion of this game doesn't matter as much as the opinions of the gaming community at large. The main goals this game has had since launch were to fix the game up and bring people back. The MMO community is very picky when it comes to death penalty. AION was universally trashed for its soul sickness system at launch because it slowed down progress... and that system was nothing compared to delevelling in Final Fantasy XIV.

The fact is that players want the time that they invest in a game to be well-invested. Delevelling is just a slap in the face these days to modern MMO gamers - especially those whose first MMO was Bobby Kotick's evil empire of doom, World of Warcraft.

For that reason alone it will not happen. Don't get your hopes up.

I want delevelling back so class stacking can take a whole new level lmao.

no, I've played 11 for longer then it was out in the US and it's annoying to die while trying to get exp to lose it. Even 11 has changed this now, you can't lose EXP below level 30 now I think. This game is also different. You have no EXP buffer once you cap level and everyone would be de-leveling every time you wiped. That would lead to even more of an elitist culture then now meaning that even a party finder would be useless. Also it would mean they would have to remove the gear damage penalty from the game if they were put it in to keep the death penalty from being too great. Which removes part of the economy that was developed for this game.

I guess you don't understand how the current death penalty system works in this game. When you die, your gear gets damaged. meaning you have to repair it. NPCs can repair it up to 99%. But if you wish to trade or sell the gear on the AH, you need it at 100%. So you need to have the skill to repair it yourself or get someone to do it for you. It doesn't totally break your gear in one shot when you die so you can keep trying.

so maybe if you want to have fear of dying, SE can add a Hard Core mode where your gear totally breaks every time you die, and can only be set from the Square Enix Account Management screen on the character. so you have to logout of the game to change it.

I've heard lot's of Terrible suggestions on these forums but this is by far the worst. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Oh dear... god... it's you.

You were the death penalty on Valefor.

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Aw yeah boy.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Played XI, didn't care for de-leveling then.. won't today, as I'm sure most others wouldn't either.

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Word.
/10char

No, for the love of the freaking Twelve. This wasn't a fun mechanic. This wasn't compelling gameplay. While I agree that significant death penalties wind up affecting gameplay, they - for me - wound up affecting it to the tune of 'not fun at all, even a little bit'. Death being a slap on the wrist means if you screw something up, you can laugh about it, pick yourself up, and carry on. Additionally, XPing in this game is so relatively easy that XP penalties on death wouldn't even be an effective slap on the wrist; they weren't either in FFXI (unless you were a BLM who wasn't a fan of soloing, in the ToAU era, who wound up dying a lot due to heavy LS raiding. I have scars. And a hastily-leveled BRD that I switched my main to and never looked back until Abyssea. And you know what? I hated capping XP on BRD, too, even though it was 'easier'. It made me regret and dislike doing the fun content in the game, until Evil Abyssea came out with its XP raining from the skies, and then suddenly death was hilarious. And you know what? It owned.)

This isn't a [CENSORED] CASUALS vs. XXXHARDXXXCOREXXX argument, this is a "this gameplay sucks" argument, and to posit this as one of the 'best things about FFXI' is one of the most amazingly, mind-bogglingly, slackjawed-Taru-giving-a-goobbue-stare level of shamefully disingenuous assertions I have ever read as long as I've been reading these forums. I almost feel like the OP deserves an award for that line alone.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

The only reason I can think you or anyone would hate that is because you/they haven't played FFXI.

It was awesome. Not having it is moving backwards.

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At the end of the day its about as annoying as gear repair. thus not a penalty, thus a waste of time.
If you want to talk about Punishing ko's lets go down this rabbit hole.

how about stacking xp debt? How about a system where your gear randomly vanishes from your inventory? Hell how about perma-death?

Come on you want to get masochistic about this. Lets get serious.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I hate delevel system, it's so dumb.

A debt system is easier.

The more you die, the higher you debt becomes.

Say you die as a 50 paladin, your exp debt is now 100,000 exp. you kill a mob worth 1000 exp. 500 exp goes to your actually level, while the other 500 goes to the debt. You will not get full exp until the debt is paid. If your level 50 the debt won't matter it won't go down cause your not gaining exp to your level bar. But when you try to level another class that isn't 50 then debt will become active.

Now there should be a limit, for example you die 10 times. That will be the maximum amount times till the exp debt will no longer go any higher. 100,000 exp debt each death x10 being the maximum deaths = 1 million exp debt to pay off.

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I was actually going to say this Jin but it all comes down to the same thing. A infinite time sink where players are wasting time and resources to go out and spend longer to level up than there needs to be in the game. That is counterproductive and should not be introduced to the game we are playing. If they want to make the debuff a little more harsh than albeit they should do it, but this just isn't the same grindfest as FFXI and for that I am glad.

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Originally Posted by Griss

Come on you want to get masochistic about this. Lets get serious.

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I like your style, big boy~.

I think the OP either doesn't know or is forgetting that at 50, your exp doesn't cap out at max exp like in XI. You literally stop gaining exp once you hit 50, so if this game did have exp loss anyone who died would immediately delevel to 49. I can see how this would be a huge problem for a lot of events.

Yoshida doesn't want to punish players The days of Tanaka are over. Go play Tanaka's game if you want that.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

One of the best features of FFXI is not present right now in FFXIV.
Deleveling was a necessary element as the game doesn't punish you enough for dying in FFXIV.

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That anyone ever in the entire world has this opinion is completely and utterly shocking to me. Deleveling is probably the worst mechanic ever. If you're going to die and fail at something anyway you should not be further punished by losing experience points that you had to spend time earning. Maybe every time you die SE should randomly just delete an item in your character's inventory and in really rare cases the entire character - wouldn't that be cool!?

Why not add it? It might appease these 'leveling is too easy' folks. The fact is, even if you could de-level in this game from death, who cares? Leveling is so easy, you could get it back in no time at all! Might add at least a little bit of fright when dying, but it won't be like FF11 and be followed by complete despair when you realize it will take at least a whole day or two to get it all back.