People are all so bored of the game and playing BG3

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

Youre not gatekeeping he is just a very grouchy casual player.

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While that's probably an accurate description, I suspect it's also Titanmen arguing with himself. He's gone down that road in the past and this is starting to feel all too familiar.

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Originally Posted by ChonkGoblinSuprem

Congratulations, you two!!! The gate is well kept. I’ll just go back to mucking about in the (ugh) backlog with the rest of the filthy casuals. Thanks for displaying my point to literally everybody!

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Again, explain how this is gatekeeping? You can't just keep throwing the term around and expect it to stick. It just sounds like you're a naturally bitter person who doesn't really know what the term means. No one's saying you can't do old/new content. No one said 'filthy casuals'. Well, you did. Sorry you feel that way about yourself, I guess. Sounds like a you problem.

Sorry, I can’t hear you from under all of this backlog.

Oh, another bait thread?

Don't you guys ever get tired of this? BG3 can't be that great - if it was, you'd be PLAYING IT instead of on these forums posting about it.

Yes, being "honest", I play FF14 because it's a good game and I enjoy it.

I genuinely will never understand people that hate a game so much they incessantly tell everyone else how much they hate it and how they like other games better, on the forums of the game they hate and constantly say they are enjoying other game(s) so much better than, by...spending their time making these posts instead of playing those other games they supposedly like so much better.

If BG3 was as good as you say, you'd have been playing it instead of making this post.
/micdrop

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Oh, another bait thread?

Don't you guys ever get tired of this? BG3 can't be that great - if it was, you'd be PLAYING IT instead of on these forums posting about it.

Yes, being "honest", I play FF14 because it's a good game and I enjoy it.

I genuinely will never understand people that hate a game so much they incessantly tell everyone else how much they hate it and how they like other games better, on the forums of the game they hate and constantly say they are enjoying other game(s) so much better than, by...spending their time making these posts instead of playing those other games they supposedly like so much better.

If BG3 was as good as you say, you'd have been playing it instead of making this post.
/micdrop

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To be fair, BG3 really IS that good. They are just trolling.

What’s the point of this thread? People talking about other things besides FF14? Holy cow scraping the barrel bottom today, aren’t we.

Instead of complaining how about joining in the conversation?

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Oh, another bait thread?

Don't you guys ever get tired of this? BG3 can't be that great - if it was, you'd be PLAYING IT instead of on these forums posting about it.

Yes, being "honest", I play FF14 because it's a good game and I enjoy it.

I genuinely will never understand people that hate a game so much they incessantly tell everyone else how much they hate it and how they like other games better, on the forums of the game they hate and constantly say they are enjoying other game(s) so much better than, by...spending their time making these posts instead of playing those other games they supposedly like so much better.

If BG3 was as good as you say, you'd have been playing it instead of making this post.
/micdrop

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BG3 is that great - I just have time to play a little of both.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

To be fair, BG3 really IS that good.

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Yep. It's a great game and something FFXIV could really learn from in terms of offering characters that don't just automatically agree with the player character at every turn and who even clash with each other. There's something for pretty much everyone since there's more of an effort to appeal to a broader range of personal tastes. Something a fair few of us have been requesting FFXIV to provide over the years, I'd note.

It's also pretty normal to look at what other options in the industry are doing because there's always things that businesses can learn from each other.

Yes, I'm pretty tired of the Wol/Azem worship

This thread reminds me of the days years ago when everyone in my WoW raid groups were going on and on about how much fun they were having playing The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

The more things change...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yep. It's a great game and something FFXIV could really learn from in terms of offering characters that don't just automatically agree with the player character at every turn and who even clash with each other. There's something for pretty much everyone since there's more of an effort to appeal to a broader range of personal tastes. Something a fair few of us have been requesting FFXIV to provide over the years, I'd note.

It's also pretty normal to look at what other options in the industry are doing because there's always things that businesses can learn from each other.

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I've been enjoying it a lot. Although I'm taking a short break to play some other CRPGs in my backlog while they do the usual Larian thing and patch some stuff in that didn't make it on release and tidy up Act 3 a bit. But easily the most fun I've had in a CRPG in a while.

Still hope they flesh out Minthara and that route more generally later on as I intend to go that path on my inevitable drow playthrough.

I really loved the original BG and BG2.

I never once went to other game discussion forums (Gamefaqs or whatever was the style at the time) to prattle on about them.

I fully suspect BG3 is a good game.

But that doesn't change the fact if it was so earthshatteringly good, people wouldn't come here to post about it, they'd just be playing it. So it's clearly not that good to them that they would rather play it than post on these forms about it. If it was so much fun they couldn't put it down, they wouldn't have time to be here posting bait threads featuring it in a starring role.

I've never had a point in my life where I was so enjoying a game I...would intentionally stop playing it to load up forums for some other game to make posts about this game instead.

That's all I'm going to say about the matter.

It's true. I never went to these forums to talk about Divinity Original Sin 2. I just played it. Twice. As Fane. For I am immortal.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I really loved the original BG and BG2.

I never once went to other game discussion forums (Gamefaqs or whatever was the style at the time) to prattle on about them.

I fully suspect BG3 is a good game.

But that doesn't change the fact if it was so earthshatteringly good, people wouldn't come here to post about it, they'd just be playing it. So it's clearly not that good to them that they would rather play it than post on these forms about it. If it was so much fun they couldn't put it down, they wouldn't have time to be here posting bait threads featuring it in a starring role.

I've never had a point in my life where I was so enjoying a game I...would intentionally stop playing it to load up forums for some other game to make posts about this game instead.

That's all I'm going to say about the matter.

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Well to be fair, some of us browse forums at work or when they can't be playing BG3 or XIV. Or maybe on their ipads before bed when not playing games. So, it's totally possible to love BG3 (I do) and still have time for forums.

What I don't understand is trying to rile people up that people like a brand new game, and want to spend some of their time on it compared to an MMO they have played for up to 10 years and also probably plan on returning to when they are done BG3. Even in the OP, those people I think are likely made up who were chanting "BG3!" were actually playing XIV and didn't cancel their subs or decide they never will play again.

Pretending that people enjoying a piece of entertainment means another one is bad or something is just, I'm going to flat out say it, dumb.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's also pretty normal to look at what other options in the industry are doing because there's always things that businesses can learn from each other.

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And we know they do that. But what works well for one game isn't guaranteed to work well in another, especially when they're different genres.

What the MSQ needs for a change is an over-the-top evil to the core antagonist. No suddenly revealed backstory about how they were abused as children or were just trying to save their people. No moralizing, no shades of grey. Just downright unwilling to negotiate villainous. I think the only time we got that was the Sorrows of Werlyt and it was that nature that probably made the quest line so impactful for many players. While complex antagonists are also good, sometimes it's nice to have a plain villain to sink your teeth into and be able to hate without someone trying to convince you you're wrong for hating them.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yes, I'm pretty tired of the Wol/Azem worship

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So don't worship them.

The Azem worship doesn't even exist in the game's story. That's been manufactured by part of the player base. The NPCs who knew Azem would tell you that Azem is spelled T R O U B L E.

As for the WoL worship, that's what happens when you end up a celebrity. The WoL is too well known in Eorzea and a few other parts of the world. The worship should die out in Dawntrail since there should be very few in the New World with knowledge of the WoL.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The Azem worship doesn't even exist in the game's story. That's been manufactured by part of the player base. The NPCs who knew Azem would tell you that Azem is spelled T R O U B L E.

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Yeah. Even in Elpis, they were all like "Oh, that Azem guy? Yeah, he's weird." We haven't really gotten a lot of information about him. Certainly not enough to worship him. I don't think he's bad though, but they suggested that he liked to get up to a little mischief every now and then. Heck, they thought the WoL showing up was his idea of some weird joke they didn't understand.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I really loved the original BG and BG2.

I never once went to other game discussion forums (Gamefaqs or whatever was the style at the time) to prattle on about them.

I fully suspect BG3 is a good game.

But that doesn't change the fact if it was so earthshatteringly good, people wouldn't come here to post about it, they'd just be playing it. So it's clearly not that good to them that they would rather play it than post on these forms about it. If it was so much fun they couldn't put it down, they wouldn't have time to be here posting bait threads featuring it in a starring role.

I've never had a point in my life where I was so enjoying a game I...would intentionally stop playing it to load up forums for some other game to make posts about this game instead.

That's all I'm going to say about the matter.

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But that logic just doesn't follow. It doesn't take much effort for someone who plays both games to make a post about it here and you can make the exact same argument regarding XIV... if it's so good, why are you posting about it rather than playing it? Liking a game doesn't mean I'm playing it 24/7 and doing nothing else. That'd be very strange. Given that we're often told Yoshi encourages people to go play other games, it's hardly unsurprising that people do that and then relay their experiences here. Was the thread started on a bad faith basis? Perhaps, but it doesn't prevent discussion on this from unfolding organically.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

And we know they do that. But what works well for one game isn't guaranteed to work well in another, especially when they're different genres.

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Doesn't need to be "guaranteed" for it to be either considered or to be discussed. They already reach into genres outwith the usual MMO fare in search of inspiration; in fact, the mainline titles alone would be candidates for that here, but even then they don't restrict themselves to those.

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What the MSQ needs for a change is an over-the-top evil to the core antagonist. No suddenly revealed backstory about how they were abused as children or were just trying to save their people. No moralizing, no shades of grey. Just downright unwilling to negotiate villainous. I think the only time we got that was the Sorrows of Werlyt and it was that nature that probably made the quest line so impactful for many players. While complex antagonists are also good, sometimes it's nice to have a plain villain to sink your teeth into and be able to hate without someone trying to convince you you're wrong for hating them.

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It's one of my least favourite quest lines, but perhaps that was down to execution more than anything. With that said, I do agree with the spirit of that - not every antagonist needs to have sympathetic motivations, and the game is at a point where it could introduce one to change the pace a bit.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

For an antagonist to be bereft of redeeming qualities I think they need to be a credible threat to be interesting. I'd get bored rather quickly if we're due yet more expansions where we're stuck with an immortal main cast and the only causalities are the occasional throwaway character or other antagonists.

Zenos was - by Yoshi-P's own words - intended to be utterly lacking in redeeming qualities and yet in the end he never once actually killed anyone of note. He was just exploited as a convenient plot device to help deal with Garlemald off-screen and devolved into fawning over the player character like so many other characters already do already.

Personally I quite like shades of grey and nuance - I just prefer it when a setting can commit to it with consistency. A good game also arguably pleases fans of both the protagonists and antagonists alike - since personal tastes differ significantly and it's often quite subjective as to who is a 'hero' and a 'villain' when a story is complex enough.

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Yup, I'd agree with all of those points. I can't really see them taking the main cast and exposing them to a villain like Valens who may actually be allowed to get a kill shot in to build up hatred towards him, so I'd expect it to be more throwaways.

For an antagonist to be bereft of redeeming qualities I think they need to be a credible threat to be interesting. I'd get bored rather quickly if we're due yet more expansions where we're stuck with an immortal main cast and the only causalities are the occasional throwaway character or other antagonists.

Zenos was - by Yoshi-P's own words - intended to be utterly lacking in redeeming qualities and yet in the end he never once actually killed anyone of note. He was just exploited as a convenient plot device to help deal with Garlemald off-screen and devolved into fawning over the player character like so many other characters already do already.

Personally I quite like shades of grey and nuance - I just prefer it when a setting can commit to it with consistency. A good game also arguably pleases fans of both the protagonists and antagonists alike - since personal tastes differ significantly and it's often quite subjective as to who is a 'hero' and a 'villain' when a story is complex enough.

I play BG3 and I play FFXIV because I like both games. They are not mutually exclusive.

I did a bit of savage a couple of years ago but I didn't like it. I came to FFXIV burned out from raiding in another game and every time we were running our scheduled savage I wanted to be elsewhere. I realized that bashing the same bosses for 6 hours/week ad nauseam, week after week and showing up at specific times on specific days was no longer for me and meant total boredom. On the other hand I like other content, including Deep Dungeons (made it to 196 solo PotD last week, hoping to get Necromancer soon)...I help other people, do some pvp and I fish too.

It's good to revisit old style rpgs and BG3 does it extremely well. I've been longing to have such a game since a while and happy that it exists.

If you don't like FFXIV anymore, then just stop playing. That's what I do when I am no longer happy with a game. You don't "need" to do savage every week. You do so because you want to.

I've been in the same position as op with another game, having raided for almost 10 yrs. The hardest part was to make the firm decision to stop (you are attached to people and the game and probably telling yourself "what will I miss?") and say to the team sorry but "I've had enough and am no longer having fun". It lifted a weight off my shoulders and I never looked back. Gaming should be fun, not a chore. You won't miss anything if you no longer like it.

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

If you don't like FFXIV anymore, then just stop playing. That's what I do when I am no longer happy with a game.

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This I agree with. I was bored with this game so I took a break a while ago and only came back thanks to the free log-in campaign + events. I am not quitting this game (yet) just taking a break especially since the next expansion will be next summer.

While I don't have a house, I do feel sorry for those who do since they do have to sub in order to keep their house.

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Originally Posted by myahele

While I don't have a house, I do feel sorry for those who do since they do have to sub in order to keep their house.

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I have a house but if I get to the point that I no longer want to play a game I wouldn't give a damn. At worse, I would just create an alt, lvl it till I can get retainers and send all my rare decos to my alt via fc chest in case I ever want to come back. When I left the other game, they could have taken all my housing, all my possessions, I wouldn't have cared. I still have a lot there in fact, including store bought things, and meh they can delete it if they want, it is of no use to me.

I have the same mentality when it comes to worldly possessions: unless it is specific documents, if it has been in a box in the basement for a year, I no longer need it.

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Originally Posted by ACE135

Why shouldn't people who play FF14 also play other new and/or good games that come out?

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So true. FFXIV isn't meant to be someone's "main game" like BG3, AC6, Starfield, WoW, Fortnite, or any other game that's come out. It's just a side chore you have to do like taking out the trash or doing laundry. People don't play FFXIV because they like the game, they do it because they have to. This is why Yoshi-P put less of a grind in relics this expansion. He wants you to play other games because he knows that FFXIV isn't exactly all that much. It's just FFXIV.

It's like asking people to commit to grinding Candy Crush and NeoPets. That's the kind of game FFXIV is.

Right?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

But that logic just doesn't follow. It doesn't take much effort for someone who plays both games to make a post about it here and you can make the exact same argument regarding XIV... if it's so good, why are you posting about it rather than playing it? Liking a game doesn't mean I'm playing it 24/7 and doing nothing else. That'd be very strange. Given that we're often told Yoshi encourages people to go play other games, it's hardly unsurprising that people do that and then relay their experiences here. Was the thread started on a bad faith basis? Perhaps, but it doesn't prevent discussion on this from unfolding organically.

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Because I was in a dungeon que. Does BG3 have those?

I'm just saying I don't go to other forums to tell them their game sucks because people play other games besides theirs. If I really like a game, I play it. If people ASK ME about games I'm playing or if I know any good ones, I make recommendations. But I don't feel the need to evangelize to try to get more converts or tell someone my pseudo-religion game is better than theirs to try and convert them. In fact, I rarely attack other games at all, and only do so once an attack has been initiated where people are saying a game I love sucks and comparing it to X game being better while ignoring X game's weaknesses and the fact that the game I love doesn't "suck" to begin with.

The poster who started this thread starts a lot, and they're always the same kinds of thing, trying to rile people up. They ignore facts, nuance, actual statistics, and so on to try and...I don't even know. I don't know if their goal is to get people to quit FFXIV, if it's a "misery loves company" and they want other people to dislike it, if they want some actual change to it, or if they just want to agitate people and get them to fight for the OP's amusement. At this point, I'm nott even sure their motivations, other than that said motivations are not good faith.

EDIT:

Oh, and to address the "at work/etc" argument where you can browse forums but not play games:

Then I'd be on the game I like's forum engaging with theorycrafting and lore discussions. Like if I was totally into BG3 right now, I'd be on THEIR forums talking about classes I like and theorizing on various builds, looking up where weapon drops are so I can try to get gear and stuff when I get home, or just discussing the lore and world's story.

True, not everyone's the same as me in terms of the specific topics they'd be discussing, but the point stands that if you're really having fun with and enjoying a game, you'd be inclined to be on their forums discussing the thing you really enjoy, not some other game's forums telling those people how their game sucks and how yours is so popular. Only jerk hyper-cultist-sports fan type mentality people do that sort of thing. Well, and forum trolls trying to agitate people, of course.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Imagine unironically acting like people attempting to spend as little time in the game as possible and spending said time gushing over other games isn’t a problem because “but it might be the same if the game was actually good”

Do y’all get paid to defend 14, I’m genuinely curious at this point

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The content could be the best thing ever and I would still want it to be over with as quickly as possible so I can play the newest flavor of the month that came out.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

EDIT:

Oh, and to address the "at work/etc" argument where you can browse forums but not play games:

Then I'd be on the game I like's forum engaging with theorycrafting and lore discussions. Like if I was totally into BG3 right now, I'd be on THEIR forums talking about classes I like and theorizing on various builds, looking up where weapon drops are so I can try to get gear and stuff when I get home, or just discussing the lore and world's story.

True, not everyone's the same as me in terms of the specific topics they'd be discussing, but the point stands that if you're really having fun with and enjoying a game, you'd be inclined to be on their forums discussing the thing you really enjoy, not some other game's forums telling those people how their game sucks and how yours is so popular. Only jerk hyper-cultist-sports fan type mentality people do that sort of thing. Well, and forum trolls trying to agitate people, of course.

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Agree there. I think part of enjoying a game, especially an MMO, is being involved in the community.

I've quit many a games, most of which I didn't even bother posting that I quit - I just left. I don't understand the desire to spend months/years on a forum of a game you have little but contempt for, but that's just me.

It must be said that each Endwalker patch has been a huge disappointment in terms of content and overall experience.
I'm glad that we have games like an exit door to get us through months of content emptiness."

I'm really glad that there are stellar games coming out in a lot of the genre's I love right now. Seeing a CRPG in the running for GOTY in 2023 is just so awesome. BG3 is undoubtedly going to be one of my top games of all time once they polish up act 3 and fix a lot of the co-op bugs.

As for FFXIV, I'm definitely at an all-time low-point with the game, and so is my friends group in general. In the past, I'd get vicarious enjoyment out of helping my friends do stuff on 14, but they've all stopped playing the game out of dissatisfaction with the EW patches, so I'm left without any excuse to play. It's crazy how many people I know who aren't planning to return until 7.0 launches. I think I've spent around 40 minutes total logged in this month lol.

Probably the worst end of expansion patch ever.

Also up to eight weeks for savage gear in final tier, that has no other real content it's used for. There is no third ultimate. The math is simple, raid log off.

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Originally Posted by technole

Probably the worst end of expansion patch ever.

Also up to eight weeks for savage gear in final tier, that has no other real content it's used for. There is no third ultimate. The math is simple, raid log off.

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This isn't the last patch.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This isn't the last patch.

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Oh sorry, there will be 2 hours of content in October, hooray

Eh. If people are bored with one game and want to play something else for a while, good for them. Dropping subs sends a louder message than complaining on a neglected message board.

Haven't picked up BG3 yet, myself. Gonna work on Armored Core 6 first.

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Originally Posted by Mcg55ss

...< basically, WoW and FFXIV handle battle instances differently > ...

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What I really found funny about this list:

"WoW raid - RNG mechanics that at points require add-ons
FFXIV - telegraph mechanics that you can learn without addons but the community uses them as a crunch"

I assume you meant "crutch" here. DBM (Deadly Boss Mods) is a major 'crutch', so at least we're good here.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This isn't the last patch.

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Casual spotted. Alliance raid and an hour of story. OK.

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Originally Posted by technole

Casual spotted. Alliance raid and an hour of story. OK.

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Ah yes, the old using "casual" as an insult. Have fun with that. I feel that there should be more on our plate to do, yeah, but at least get your facts straight.

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Originally Posted by technole

Casual spotted. Alliance raid and an hour of story. OK.

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Stupidest comment of the day. So, what if he likes other content and not savage/ultimate? (maybe he even likes it, his comment doesn't say anything about it)

In any event, the game caters to more than one type of player. No problem with that. In fact, stats show that savage/ultimate raiders are in the minority. Personally while I liked that type of content for a while, I no longer like to be bound by a schedule when it comes to gaming, nor do I like bashing the same bosses over and over during hours, week after week (edit: an for what? gear that has no use other than make it easier to bash the same bosses over and over, week after week - edit: you said it yourself).

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

What I really found funny about this list:

"WoW raid - RNG mechanics that at points require add-ons
FFXIV - telegraph mechanics that you can learn without addons but the community uses them as a crunch"

I assume you meant "crutch" here. DBM (Deadly Boss Mods) is a major 'crutch', so at least we're good here.

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plenty of people raid without dbm, its not required by any means

tell me you didnt play wow without telling me you didnt play wow

If anything square’s absolute refusal to even consider “some” add ons could be considered a bigger problem

Why with half the jobs requiring functionally zero ping to effectively double weave constantly and the existence of Alexander do console players just get left in the dirt because of this rigid adherence to zero add ons

You can’t tell me materia was cheaper than simulating Alexander on everyone’s game as a way to less the burden of high ping

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If anything square’s absolute refusal to even consider “some” add ons could be considered a bigger problem

Why with half the jobs requiring functionally zero ping to effectively double weave constantly and the existence of Alexander do console players just get left in the dirt because of this rigid adherence to zero add ons

You can’t tell me materia was cheaper than simulating Alexander on everyone’s game as a way to less the burden of high ping

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"we tested mch on 110 ping and found no issues"

clown world

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Originally Posted by Toutatis

Stupidest comment of the day. So, what if he likes other content and not savage/ultimate? (maybe he even likes it, his comment doesn't say anything about it)

In any event, the game caters to more than one type of player. No problem with that. In fact, stats show that savage/ultimate raiders are in the minority. Personally while I liked that type of content for a while, I no longer like to be bound by a schedule when it comes to gaming, nor do I like bashing the same bosses over and over during hours, week after week.

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I enjoy various types of content. It all depends on what it is and how accessible/inaccessible it is. It's honestly not worth spelling it out to this person though, so I'll just let them run with their assumptions if it makes them happy. Not worth the effort. lol

I don't know who needs to hear this but it is illegal to use 3rd party mods in Japan it is punishable by 5 years in prison and fines of up to 10 million yen. A quick Google search will tell you this possibly why 3rd party mods are not allowed?