7.0 MMO to a Single Player Game

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Opinions are nice. To you they've been ruining things. To others they have not. No real right of wrong there. I have an issue with healers and healers only. Rest of the jobs are fine imo.

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Yes yes, we know people who let us know over and over and over again that they're ambivalent to basically everything and would happily gobble pig slop as enthusiastically as ribeye looooooooove modern lobotomized job design.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

This is peak

https://i.imgur.com/2pcrFOw.jpg

The good news is that now you know a bunch of people in the forums who feel hurt, and more than the slightest by this stuff so I guess you can't say that anymore.

Maybe your personal friends don't. But good luck on the SE defense and stuff...

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They are those kind of people that choose to ignore the otherside and has the mentality: "If I don't acknowledge other people that don't unconditionally love this game, then the issues don't exist." because them and their circle of friends = the entire community.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

SE has already mentioned that they want players to be able to complete the story as a single player and has already made several adjustments to old dungeon mechanics so NPC can do them. Personally I'm NOT a fan of NPC been able to complete 8 man trials. I would say though that I didn't mind as much for Scions 8 man in Endwalker because it seems thematic and it was a 10 year journey.

My question is, how would everyone feel if 7.0 was DESIGNED from the start to be 100% done with NPC on mind? (Including 8 man)

I'm Personally not a fan of it, base on adjustments SE made to dungeons, they dumb down several mechanics so an NPC can do them. My fear is that 8 man raids would be dumb down as well so it can be complete with NPC.

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It would had been a problem if it was forced upon .but it is optional so I don't see a reason to make a thread about a problem that doesnot exist

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Originally Posted by Ath192

This is peak

https://i.imgur.com/2pcrFOw.jpg

The good news is that now you know a bunch of people in the forums who feel hurt, and more than the slightest by this stuff so I guess you can't say that anymore.

Maybe your personal friends don't. But good luck on the SE defense and stuff...

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Yet you are still pumping money to the same company .you sir are genius

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Yes yes, we know people who let us know over and over and over again that they're ambivalent to basically everything and would happily gobble pig slop as enthusiastically as ribeye looooooooove modern lobotomized job design.

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Again, your opinion. Many of you have to let us know over and over that job design apparently sucks full sale but it's an issue when someone feels the opposite and makes it known?

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

They are those kind of people that choose to ignore the otherside and has the mentality: "If I don't acknowledge other people that don't unconditionally love this game, then the issues don't exist." because them and their circle of friends = the entire community.

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It's interesting that you say I'm choosing to ignore the other side. By saying this you are effectively ignoring my side. I have my own opinions as others have theirs. I pointed out a simple fact about how many players play this game and why the devs probably don't design content in certain ways due to this. I can acknowledge what another thinks and still not see an issue. But ig acknowledgement to some of you means I have to bow n say you're right about whatever you think...just because YOU see an issue doesn't mean there is one. Common problem with these forums. "Don't see the issues I have you're a *insert stupid buzzword here*".

Also foolish to say I or anyone I speak to unconditionally loves the game when I very thoroughly explained why I feel they're doing this and what effect it'd have. Not ONCE did i claim my circle is the entire community btw. (Guess this is another tactic to try n twist what im saying). I've expressed other issues I've had before but folks magically don't see those. All in all I think folks are overreacting about this but thats not new here.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Again, your opinion. Many of you have to let us know over and over that job design apparently sucks full sale but it's an issue when someone feels the opposite and makes it known?

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**It’s okay when we do it

i'd personally be okay with it, as I normally play single player outside of this anyway. I can understand a lot of people would be upset though.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It might also be that they've decided that they want to leave FF as a single player franchise going forward and so they're trying to get current players used to a single player experience.

Let's face it: MMOs come with a set of problems that single player games don't face, with one of the big ones being the interactions within the player community and the frequent requests for changes to content style "because other MMOs do it this way". There's greater pressure to appeal to a wider audience to keep a steady stream of players online for the sake of the multi-player experience even if other players are sometimes just seen as background noise while someone plays alone. They may have decided internally it's just not worth it anymore.

Personally, I'm not certain how I feel about the announced plans for the game. It's their IP and their right to make the creative decisions they want for the game but I'm taking a wait and see approach. As long as I continue to have fun playing, I'll be here. If too much of the social aspect ends up feeling lost in the middle of the solo focus, I may not stick around. I've never played other FF games so I'm not carrying any emotional baggage that chains me to the game just because it's a FF title.

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I don’t think so. Both XI and XIV became the franchises most profitable games. A business mission is first and foremost to make money above all else. Now I don’t think this outcome is impossible but highly improbable.

Companies don’t tend to kill their most successful products, not intentionally anyways. Some do tend to coast on them to maximize profit or water them down to maximize appeal which makes them lose their special touch however. I do believe this to be happening here in terms of gameplay.

The issue with this approach is that the game accelerates burnout. You can quickly beat everything once and since there is no complexity there’s hardly a reason to return so people move on. New players aren’t generally infinite though so I’d prefer it if they invested in a loyal player base that is heavily invested into the games complexities instead of chasing the easy come, easy go cash.

It is such a tragedy that poor technical execution was also irrevocably tied to the highly interdependent and social experience FF MMOs were known for. They chucked out all of it when imo an FFXI 2.0 would’ve worked just fine if the game wasn’t a technical and underdeveloped disaster.

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Originally Posted by ValkyrieL

SE has already mentioned that they want players to be able to complete the story as a single player and has already made several adjustments to old dungeon mechanics so NPC can do them. Personally I'm NOT a fan of NPC been able to complete 8 man trials. I would say though that I didn't mind as much for Scions 8 man in Endwalker because it seems thematic and it was a 10 year journey.

My question is, how would everyone feel if 7.0 was DESIGNED from the start to be 100% done with NPC on mind? (Including 8 man)

I'm Personally not a fan of it, base on adjustments SE made to dungeons, they dumb down several mechanics so an NPC can do them. My fear is that 8 man raids would be dumb down as well so it can be complete with NPC.

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I'd love it if I could do the whole MSQ (dungeons & trials included) with NPC's. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do content with other players. I just like doing the dungeons (and trials) with NPC my first time to get a sense of how it all works without holding back other players due to my newbiness. Then when I queue for that content, I go in with some idea of how the encounters and mechanics work.

This game is already easy mode in relation to games of yesteryear. Honestly, is running something like expert roulette that much different than playing a single player game? I can't recall running the dungeon any differently depending on my group. They might as well be 3 NPCs. If anything, the NPCs in trusts actually talk more.

Most dungeons go like this:
- While waiting to start, some people say "hey, hi o/ "
- I do the rotation I always do regardless of who is in the party
- no one says anything until the last boss which is "gg"

How is that much different than a single player game anyway? In older games, you weren't matched up with strangers. You could do very very little solo. There was very little solo advancement at all.

Of course, certain content is clearly MMO-centric like raids and I guess PvP. I think many MMOs have become more solo-friendly. If not specific solo-friendly, why don't we call it, introvert-friendly. Being matched up with people, not having to talk strategy, etc.

MMO's are just a shadow of it's former self.

Not that I have an issue with solo play it's just that XIV focuses TOO much on solo play, making things brain dead and too easy.

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

MMO's are just a shadow of it's former self.

Not that I have an issue with solo play it's just that XIV focuses TOO much on solo play, making things brain dead and too easy.

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That makes little sense, solo play does not equal whatever this current chase to make everything as simplistic as possible is.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

That makes little sense, solo play does not equal whatever this current chase to make everything as simplistic as possible is.

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It's pretty simple, they don't want fans of the MMO or RPG genres because there's not nearly enough of those people on the planet Earth to drive Growth™.

Therefore they are targeting everyone else, launching harpoons in every direction to try to spear as many passing sea-creatures as possible while chumming the waters with the most inoffensive and encouraging content they can manage to engineer. The game is being laced with pellet-dispensing red buttons like a building being rigged for demolition so that all the lab mice squeaking and running around the maze in Bulbasaur T-shirts will stick around through every 6.45 yet to come.

MMORPG fans were the base agar plate that SE needed to get their ARR lab experiment growing, and Yoshida-san now bows politely and thanks you very kindly for providing the game with seed money and nutrient materials for those shaky early years.

However, your purpose has been served, thank you very much! Now please step aside, there are many more promising customers in the queue behind you.

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

MMO's are just a shadow of it's former self.

Not that I have an issue with solo play it's just that XIV focuses TOO much on solo play, making things brain dead and too easy.

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Do you play Extreme, Unreal or Savage at all?
Dungeons have never been super difficult or anything close to that. Variant Savage (or is it Criterion) is there for this very reason. Normal content is generally designed to be more accessible, not braindead (the hyperbolic term many like to use).
Even with that I'd say the trials we've gotten are a step up difficulty wise from the norm. Then there's also the fact many ignore that what's "easy" is subjective.

I'm really confused by this whole thread. The game has barely changed how it does pretty much everything. It's hard to go a week without another "FFXIV is stale" thread (which I partially agree with).
People warned that FFXIV is unfriendly for newer players as queue times were getting longer and longer just because of how many dungeons that had been added, so they had to spend more and more time waiting to prog the MSQ and unlock content.
As several people have said, there is a lot in this game that requires a group. All current content excluding Variant and Deep Dungeon absolutely requires a group, it's just that MSQ dungeons can be ran with AI. Not the trials, normal, or alliance raids.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't feel the whole "this game is becoming a single player game" aspect.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I don't mind it provided it is stuck exclusively to the main story - However, if the elements of solo-play branch out into the non-main story elements, e.g., the 8-man raids then I think it is going too far.

The thing to keep in mind is that it is currently:
a) Stuck exclusively to the main story-related instances.
b) It is entirely optional for the player. If a player wants to progress through the story with NPCs then they can do so. Equally, if players want to go through the story whilst queuing up regularly then they can do so.

The game is hardly telling you that you must progress solo, but rather you can progress solo if you want to.

Edit: If I'm being brutally honest, I don't think this game ever was a 'true' MMO, just a co-op game masquerading as an MMO.

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I totally agree.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

It's pretty simple, they don't want fans of the MMO or RPG genres because there's not nearly enough of those people on the planet Earth to drive Growth™.

Therefore they are targeting everyone else, launching harpoons in every direction to try to spear as many passing sea-creatures as possible while chumming the waters with the most inoffensive and encouraging content they can manage to engineer. The game is being laced with pellet-dispensing red buttons like a building being rigged for demolition so that all the lab mice squeaking and running around the maze in Bulbasaur T-shirts will stick around through every 6.45 yet to come.

MMORPG fans were the base agar plate that SE needed to get their ARR lab experiment growing, and Yoshida-san now bows politely and thanks you very kindly for providing the game with seed money and nutrient materials for those shaky early years.

However, your purpose has been served, thank you very much! Now please step aside, there are many more promising customers in the queue behind you.

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What an excellent description. Thank you.

7.0 Patch Notes
"We've added auto play to the game"

Will be the day the game is officially dead.

FF14 was my first MMO I ever played. I started in ARR 10 yrs ago & it has been the only MMO I played. I enjoyed the first 15 levels being solo until I got to the first dungeon. Didn't really know how to communicate with the other players so it was a learning curve. Now I know almost all ways of the FF16 community I have enjoyed it but I still love playing alone.

I believe Yoshi stated in a log past interview that FF14 was like a single-player MMO.

Personally don't mind it. Outside of the extreme/savage content, the 24 alliance raids, and 8-man trials/raids, it's basically single-player. Now that the squadrons, trusts, & duty support have been implemented, you basically solo the MSQ.

So in 7.0, it won't surprise me if they have trust & duty support assistance with the 8-man trials. I know that experimented with it in the Hydaelin trial. I loved it.

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Originally Posted by Osteichthyes

I'm really confused by this whole thread. The game has barely changed how it does pretty much everything. It's hard to go a week without another "FFXIV is stale" thread (which I partially agree with).
People warned that FFXIV is unfriendly for newer players as queue times were getting longer and longer just because of how many dungeons that had been added, so they had to spend more and more time waiting to prog the MSQ and unlock content.
As several people have said, there is a lot in this game that requires a group. All current content excluding Variant and Deep Dungeon absolutely requires a group, it's just that MSQ dungeons can be ran with AI. Not the trials, normal, or alliance raids.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't feel the whole "this game is becoming a single player game" aspect.

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Because some people think that game is being ruined because people who never want to engage with anything social/MMO in parts of the game and only do that once when story demands them to and then never again being allowed to not do that at all somehow will destroy the game forever. Its not like option of doing content together is being removed, and doing stuff with NPCs is still, overall, slower and more tedious experience. But, old MMO players are very much "back in my days we SUFFERED through content and its unfair that these filthy little casuals get to NOT SUFFER", so that's to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

I'd love it if I could do the whole MSQ (dungeons & trials included) with NPC's. That doesn't mean I wouldn't do content with other players. I just like doing the dungeons (and trials) with NPC my first time to get a sense of how it all works without holding back other players due to my newbiness. Then when I queue for that content, I go in with some idea of how the encounters and mechanics work.

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I also like that I get the chance to figure things out myself instead of having someone dorito themselves Day One because they've been running something since the servers went up and how dare we poor mooks who worked all day slow their run by being new to it. And I get to read all the things and poke into all the crannies. I can take my sweet time in the dungeon with the NPCs and see how they react. There is time enough to get thrown onto the roulette treadmill once I've savored the original experience.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

This game is already easy mode in relation to games of yesteryear. Honestly, is running something like expert roulette that much different than playing a single player game? I can't recall running the dungeon any differently depending on my group. They might as well be 3 NPCs. If anything, the NPCs in trusts actually talk more.

Most dungeons go like this:
- While waiting to start, some people say "hey, hi o/ "
- I do the rotation I always do regardless of who is in the party
- no one says anything until the last boss which is "gg"

How is that much different than a single player game anyway? In older games, you weren't matched up with strangers. You could do very very little solo. There was very little solo advancement at all.

Of course, certain content is clearly MMO-centric like raids and I guess PvP. I think many MMOs have become more solo-friendly. If not specific solo-friendly, why don't we call it, introvert-friendly. Being matched up with people, not having to talk strategy, etc.

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well said!!

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I also like that I get the chance to figure things out myself instead of having someone dorito themselves Day One because they've been running something since the servers went up and how dare we poor mooks who worked all day slow their run by being new to it. And I get to read all the things and poke into all the crannies. I can take my sweet time in the dungeon with the NPCs and see how they react. There is time enough to get thrown onto the roulette treadmill once I've savored the original experience.

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I'm the same way. I like using the trust on the first dungeon run to get to check out mechanics, take my time at first & enjoy the dungeon. Then I do expert roulettes where I play with other players.