endwalker seen as low point?

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

Case, meet point. One could just as easily flip this around and say "they wrote a story I personally enjoyed, therefore the story is great and everyone who disagrees with me should go cry a big, fat river". I'm puzzled as to how certain posters consider such reductivity a good attitude to have. It certainly doesn't solve any real issues, not nearly as much as it stirs the simmering pot of resentment.

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You "could" flip that around, but that simply isn't what's happening here in reality. It also (again) ignores how popular EW actually is practically anywhere on the internet outside of this forum. Heck, even some of the usual bitter crew here love to claim that there are apparently dozens upon dozens of fanboy sites around the internet absolutely praising the game, worshiping Yoshi-P, etc., where no criticism of any sort is allowed, and claim that this forum with its few dozen regulars is the "only place" on the internet you can be negative about it...yet then simultaneously try to act as if their negativity is the norm magically shared by most of the playerbase. Umm...what?

To go back to your point, I watched the new season of Stranger Things last summer. There were a few things I really wanted to see happen. Exactly none of them did (in fact the complete opposite). I still enjoyed the season, anyway. Mature people are able to separate "what I want" from "what I can enjoy."

Story-wise I find it ties with Shadowbringers for my favorite. It isn't as consistent a quality, but some of the highs are better and some of the lows are lower (lowest point in Shadowbringers was Ahm Araeng part 2 for me. Lowest point in Endwalker might be too much of the Lopporits or Hildibrand-style cutscenes, and Labryinthos part 2).

Content-wise, a step backwards compared to Stormblood and Shadowbringers. The variant dungeons are really cool and I wanna see more of them in lieu of the old optional dungeons, but island sanctuary is too passive for me at this time, I'm sure they'll continue to develop it past EW which could turn out neat eventually, but not quite so in the present.

The lack of an adventuring foray ala Eureka or Bozja really hurts gameplay-wise, they were content that took at least some days to complete, the new relic step you can get done in <20 minutes even watching cutscenes. There's another Deep Dungeon instead, which personally doesn't interest me but is worth mentioning.

There's no real crafter/gatherer content either which also hurts, this is the first expac since ARR to not feature some kind of reconstruction initiative. Stormblood's was pretty passive all things considered, but Ishgard Restoration was always content you could dive into with a mountain of rewards. Instead we've gotten maybe two custom delivery questlines, which don't take much time to complete at all.

Having the trial series tied to the MSQ makes sense this round, but also cuts out content at the same time, as we're missing unique questlines that you would jump into post-MSQ. And, personally, those were always something I looked forward to doing and could expand a patch day by another two hours.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

yet then simultaneously try to act as if their negativity is the norm magically shared by most of the playerbase.

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I'm inclined to disagree with this assertion. I've certainly encountered nothing of the sort thus far. To be frank, the onus is on the posters coming into an OP's thread to assume good faith until proven otherwise. Blind cynicism serves no purpose but to denigrate those one might rather not see, but if such is the intent it can be accomplished much more easily and with less friction by simply not deigning to participate in any discussion started by any OP the poster has come to blows with in the past. So many of the culprits those on here love to point fingers at, to the best of my knowledge, have not once actually outright claimed to speak for the empirical majority. Some other posters cannot claim the same innocence to such an offence.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

To go back to your point, I watched the new season of Stranger Things last summer. There were a few things I really wanted to see happen. Exactly none of them did (in fact the complete opposite). I still enjoyed the season, anyway. Mature people are able to separate "what I want" from "what I can enjoy."

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I'm not entirely clear what bringing Stranger Things into this accomplishes, but mature people are also rather capable of refraining from flaunting their supposed mental maturity and certainly not implying others do not possess the same. Both of which you exhibit here, and which discredits you to the detriment of the stance you are attempting to take. It most certainly isn't a good look, nor does it do much to assist in your desire presentation as the upstanding, mature individual you seem to see yourself as.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

In terms of Story:
ShB > HW > SB > EW > ARR

In terms of Content:
SB > ShB >HW > ARR > EW


7.0 better not be more of the same.

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But you already know it will be the same minus deep dungeon which will be replaced with a zone for the new relic.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

but mature people are also rather capable of refraining from flaunting their supposed mental maturity and certainly not implying others do not possess the same. Both of which you exhibit here, and which discredits you to the detriment of the stance you are attempting to take. It most certainly isn't a good look, nor does it do much to assist in your desire presentation as the upstanding, mature individual you seem to see yourself as.

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https://media.tenor.com/FlXFLodO9qQA...beeeee-try.gif

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

It's so damn interesting, too. Since Tears of the Kingdom, the game in particular Yoshi-P endorsed as the one for us all to take a break and play? Well, suffice to say its a definitive case of bottled lightning striking twice. If Ninty can do it, why can't Squeenix?

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Well, Nintendo had the luxury of delaying Tears of the Kingdom by a whole year or more due to seeing incredible games come out right before it was originally supposed too. With the expectation of dev cycles on XIV, limited and only getting more bare bones staffing, and that pesky thing called capital, Yoshi-P and his team can only do so much. However, it's also because Zelda has a less rigorous story. There are no big moral quandaries in Zelda (as far as I know, I haven't beaten Tears yet). There isn't a large extensive cast of mouthpieces either.

Part of liking FFXIV is liking those mouthpieces and what they say. And taking their suppositions as fact. There is an advantage to sticking to characters this way, but it doesn't stick or land for everyone. Compared to Zelda, which does have some static characters, Zelda's characters hardly preach anything. It's a lot more cut and dry, and it's a game where the game is primary thing you are doing 80% of the time, whereas with FFXIV it lives and dies by its stories. The second those dry up or miss their mark, it starts to rely on MMO style gameplay and socializing in order to be entertaining. Which in our current era is something most people refuse to engage with, and FFXIV isn't really setup for people to engage like that either, while also still playing the game.

tl; dr

Zelda is made with less limitations, restrictions, and exposition. On top of that, FFXIV starts to fall apart the second its story does, for many people.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

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Oh God, 7.0 is going to be called Kingdom of Tears isn't it?!?!?

EW is marked by waste of opportunities everywhere, just like Stormblood.

EW
- relics not attached to variant dungeons, deep dungeons and island sanctuary (as alternative way to farm necessary resource to upgrade)
- Vrtra traveling alone (as a dragon) to the void when we could have called Hraesvelgr and others to support him. 6.4 could have ended this way easily, opening new path to 7.0 from 6.5.
- MCH and DNC should have gained a minigame like BARD. I will die upon this hill lol
- Not using your deity during Myths of the Realm....not even a quote? a reference? a funny joke? an unique reward?

+ Base content is harder
+ 2 Ultimates if you enjoy this kind of stuff
+ Expansion of Fashion Accessories
+ PVP overhaul (questionable maps changes tho)
+ Finally a conclusion for Hydaelyn-Zodiark arc (they were honest with us, i know this is the basic but we are talking about a company).
+ Small graphics changes
+ Savages rewards are amazing, one of the best of ALL MMORPGs.


I rank EW side by side with ShB because i see it as a bridge between excellent to almost-perfect game. I hope they are building meaningful changes to implement on 7.x+.

Stormblood
- Weird screaming when no one is around during Ala Mhigo invasion.
- No EPIC massive battle. They should use squad AI for this kind of stuff too. I am at the lasted rank of all grand companies and during a expansion about WAR, i had no use!!!!!!!!!!!!
- They should have add Isghard's guards and Ala Mhigo as grand companies too. It's been awhile since we moved away from Gridania-Limsa-Ul'dah as main cities in terms of narrative.

Heavensward and Shadowbringers are considered almost perfect by everyone because they did not waste opportunities like they did with Endwalker and Stormblood. Using Heavensward as example, you can farm your relics in multiple ways, you can integrate roullettes with a weekly/diary quests that give you the weird blue crystal that i forgot the name AND khloe's diary. One run, three tasks. For some reason, this concept is not applied for all contents. EW relic farm was just not planned for the long term, ShB was better.

I wouldn't call it a low point. More like a mid tier expansion at best. The teams definetely not firing on all cylinders with this expansion. It's not all bad, but there is a lot of wasted potential. The story for me personally is a low point however. I've never felt so annoyed with the narrative than I have in 6.4.

No I thoroughly enjoyed it and the story as did most people.

I would say it's about the middle.

Overall I think SB was the worst for me.

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Originally Posted by Britha

No I thoroughly enjoyed it and the story as did most people.

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"I am most people"

I dislike EW as much as the next guy, but calling it the low point is a stretch. There's definitely been worse before.

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Originally Posted by Restonance

I dislike EW as much as the next guy, but calling it the low point is a stretch. There's definitely been worse before.

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Like when? The MSQ for EW has been controversial at best and the new content is all one and done, like they're actively trying to make players stop playing the game. Even when there's content with potential for longevity like deep dungeon, they make the weapons obsolete in the same patch by handing out better weapons for practically zero effort.

It's basically Shb 1.5 with worse story and doubling down on all the gameplay design and content problems that said expansion brought while introducing some of their own like the 2m meta, so imo, yes its a low point

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Originally Posted by Archeron

I wouldn't call it a low point. More like a mid tier expansion at best. The teams definetely not firing on all cylinders with this expansion. It's not all bad, but there is a lot of wasted potential. The story for me personally is a low point however. I've never felt so annoyed with the narrative than I have in 6.4.

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It's a weird change for sure. I liked the story but...in the old days they would "ok, nice party, now you need to rest WOL", using shadowbringers for example. Now each character go to their own thing and you stand there...waiting lol

There is not even a happy music in post Endwalker like happened in lv 86/87 of 6.0 when we decide to travel to the past.
Feels lazy.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

The revisionist history turning positively on Stormblood has been amusing to watch from the sidelines as well.

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I hated Stormblood. It was a boring expansion, but the patch content is the best the entire game has seen.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

EW's large positive reception is likely due to newbies again. They're still honeymooning with XIV, not longtime players. It's hard to hate on a game you only started playing 2 or 3 years ago, and it's hard to know better when you never experienced its previous iterations. Again it's not universal, but that's the crux of why some folks think of EW as a low point. I think it's a low point.

But, hey, if it's printing money for SE, they'll see it as a high point just like 2.0 was a high point, and we'll get more of the same, stale, hackneyed stuff we got in this "epic conclusion."

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This is the key issue here. The devs have long since decided to focus on attracting new players rather than improving the game for veterans and letting word of mouth do the job like in ARR/HW.

This game has an eternal newbie problem. Most of the people on these forums are ShB or EW babies who don't know how great the previous expansions have been. Especially Heavensward/Stormblood raids, which even now are far more creative and fun than anything in ShB and EW. Just go into o3s and see how interesting raids were before.

They realized at some point that they literally cannot keep retention up so they decided to bank on attracting new players. With each patch often losing 20%-30% of old players and attracting around equally as many, this game is basically on dialysis.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

The revisionist history turning positively on Stormblood has been amusing to watch from the sidelines as well.

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Mfw revisionist.

The only reason it would be revisionist if you're one of those people who play this game for 20 hours every 2.5 years just for the story and then unsub.

Literally Kotaku take with this comment LOL

It's an MMO people judge expansions by more than the MSQ. Maybe you and all the gaming journalists don't realize that but MMO players do.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its people finally taking the rose tinted goggles off, its quite common amongst the average opinioniated gamer such as ourselves.

Its honestly very annoying and disingenous when people talk about the past tense like "this used to be good" when really its just them trying to twist the narrative to justify their opinions without having a consistent perspective of the product.

They quickly forget the annoyances, the issues, the lack of content and in terms of shadowbringers's plot specifically, the egregious filler and predictability. Really imo I think the only reason people even like Shb is because of two things; Ardbert and Emet-Selch. Theyre arguably the most important characters that carry that narrative very well. But personally I need more than just that in order for the expansion to be a masterpiece.

Frankly as someone who has played numerous jrpgs new and old....I dont think we've had that yet with this game. The only praise I can give is that each expansion has been consistently well, but it doesnt hold a candle to stories like FFX or Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest VIII or Tales of the Abyss.

My opinions of course but still

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Two ShB babies deliberating on whether past expansions were better. Don't make me laugh

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Originally Posted by Restonance

I dislike EW as much as the next guy, but calling it the low point is a stretch. There's definitely been worse before.

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That's how I feel as well. I loved the guild I was in during Stormblood. But as an expansion, it sucked. And while Endwalker is clown shoes compared to Shadowbringers or Heavensward, it's easily better than Stormblood. I hate the Loporrits and how they absolutely murder the tone of Endwalker, but it is nothing to the damage juicy as a character surviving way past his expiration date has caused EW's story. And I have Stormblood to blame for that.

Also, SE, he's not my friend, and I don't care if you want me to know he thought he was mine. He's a psycho and I'm glad he's dead. Wish I could go back in time and double tap that twit.

I enjoyed the 6.0 story. I enjoyed Pandaemonium.

6.1 to 6.4 MSQ has been, I dunno.. uneventful. I don't hate it, but it's nothing to write home about. And I know this applies to its sister-expansion Shadowbringers just as well, even though people are quick to overlook (forget) its low points. The thing is that Shadowbringers did work itself up to a spectacular climax in 5.3, whereas 6.0 basically put it all in 6.0 itself and then tried to create and stretch out a new arc. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I get that they can't just resolve things instantly, but I'm not expecting 6.5 to be some kind of bombastic, thrilling conclusion either.

And it's a shame, because it's basically putting the rest down with it.

As for the content? Most of it is pretty good, but some of it falls flat, like criterion, which is both overtuned and underwhelming in terms of its reward structure. Now, that can of course be mended, so we'll see about that in 6.45. I do get that people feel the loss of a Bozja keenly. I don't, but I understand that it leaves a rift for a certain type of player that doesn't just want to do savage over and over again for number go up, or cut their teeth on Ultimate prog.

I would personally call it a lazy point. Uncreative point, too. Ran out of ideas point. Wanted to play it safe point.
Story had a few moments that could have been impactful, but flopped because theyre too scared to kill anyone anymore. Then they got lazy and shoved us back with the same group immediately after pretending in some heart felt reflection moment that we all broke up and moved on. Then they shoehorn force in the most boring bland beige character I honest to god think I have ever seen in my entire life. I may loathe scrappy doo, but at least he has a personality. Zero just stands there blinking delivering cringe after cringe line and tipping that stupid folded origami hat. Graha Tia confidently piping up every few minutes as if he shouldnt have died an entire expansion ago.

It was a disappointment. Maybe not a LOW point no, they were more successful than they've ever been. But they slacked off, major league and it shows.

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Originally Posted by Sheriyana

Like when? The MSQ for EW has been controversial at best and the new content is all one and done, like they're actively trying to make players stop playing the game. Even when there's content with potential for longevity like deep dungeon, they make the weapons obsolete in the same patch by handing out better weapons for practically zero effort.

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Don't get me wrong, EW is bad. Calling it the worst thing in the game's history? I dunno about that especially when we have atrocities like ARR.

The game is functional. The content offered is hollow, combat is bland, and there's still a metric ton of problems under the hood but at least it more or less works. 2.0 had all the current problems and then some.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

- MCH and DNC should have gained a minigame like BARD. I will die upon this hill lol

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When limited job was new, was trying to get it to be moved to advanced job and just bring that concept to all jobs in general.. things that go beyond the job in different ways. Dancer was new chorography content, but I am curious.. what would Machinists concept be?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

When limited job was new, was trying to get it to be moved to advanced job and just bring that concept to all jobs in general.. things that go beyond the job in different ways. Dancer was new chorography content, but I am curious.. what would Machinists concept be?

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Exclusive FPS mode for both PvE and PvP content.

For me, it has been bad enough that I have stripped my houses of any desirable furnishings, put them into storage and let my sub lapse. I'll be back later to pick up my gil, and then I'll be gone for a while. It seems like they are always cutting corners, mishandling the launch of major features and the story hasn't exactly been great, in my opinion. Either way, I think I'm done. I feel as though I'm getting increasingly less for my money here. I've tried to be patient, but I can't do this anymore.

There isn't much to do compared to prior expansions, and what gameplay there is, isn't as engaging.

Stormblood had Eureka and Heaven on High. Stormblood era had some challenging solo instances like the level 70 Red Mage duty. Some story trials like King Moogle Mog or Steps of Faith were also difficult and thus kept me on the edge of my seat. Shadowbringers only had Bozja and the game became generally less difficult. Then you have Endwalker where there is nothing to keep me logging back in. There is no Eureka or Bozja to progress through, and the game certainly isn't difficult unless you're talking about raiding, which I do not find to be enjoyable.

Narratively, I was drawn into FFXIV by it's focus on a geopolitical conflict, like the Suikoden series, Warcraft, and early Trails. FFXIV's narrative then shifts into becoming about ancient superbeings and light vs darkness and the fate of the cosmos... and I'm just not really interested in it. That's not what drew me in. Then the massive war with the Empire that the story had been building up for 400+ hours never happens. You never get to explore the Empire and it is unceremoniously dumped offscreen. Also, by this point there is no longer any semblance of stakes. None of the main characters will die, no one will have lasting hard feelings. Everything will always turn out okay. So it's hard for me to care about what's going on, and since there is so little gameplay compared to the bloated visual novel, I find myself increasingly disinterested in playing.

Aesthetically I am not fond of the game's gradual shift from a fantasy world, to mimicing our modern world with more and more T-shirts and hoodies and stuff being added. Also not fond of how the soundtrack has become increasingly laden with obnoxious pop music.

Only reason why I am still subbed to FFXIV is because I have a house, and because of the FOMO seasonal event items, but I am caring less and less about that. 7.0 is going to make or break my interest in FFXIV. I am currently playing WoW again. I have many grievances with the game, but I find the combat more enjoyable, zone exploration more enjoyable, prefer that game's aesthetic, and I like the PvP. I don't think it will keep me interested enough to resub to it permanently. GW2 has been in a downward spiral for the past 5 years and I think the next expansion is going to make or break my interest in that game as well. With Greg Street's departure from Riot games, I am doubtful the League of Legends/Runeterra MMO will be good. Overall the MMORPG genre (and high production value RPG genre) is in a sorry state. I might find another hobby.

My position is that "veteran" players can't really judge. I'm sure people starting FFXIV now or just before EW have a blast.
Now for players who are seeing EW follow through the same patch cycle than all other expansions... Maybe not a low point because I'm sure the quality of what we are given gameplay wise is at least equal to what we had before. But I started hopping off and on in 5.1 and EW had me quit before the first patch. I usually play around a patch release for a week or two, get bored and drop my sub after that (and most of my friends have left).
I've dropped Savage because I didn't care for it anymore, I didn't feel like the gear it gave me made a real difference in the rest of the game. I can't really tolerate 2 dungeons on a roulette expected to be done daily for tomes. I don't have a reason to "grind" relics. Don't care that much about PotD 3.0.The criterion dungeon was fun for a week then there were no incentives to actually run it for me. Island Sanctuary is bland.
The only things I am happy about in EW are Sage, and the two Ultimate fights (and I don't even do these raids, I just enjoy the idea of them being around).

But if people enjoy Endwalker, I'm thrilled for them! I have been frustrated for so long because of how I wanted the game to be keeping up to my standards and expectations during most of ShB, and now I'm happy to be unphased. I play what I want to play for one month of sub and that's fine.

I wouldn't call it the lowest point in the game's history, that goes to 1.0 by a mile.

I started just barely before or on Stormblood launch, and endwalker so far is definitely the lowest point in my time playing the game. Largely due to job design being turned so simple with normal mode content so easy i could train my cat to play the game plus extended content lulls for what I'm interested in

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Originally Posted by Restonance

Don't get me wrong, EW is bad. Calling it the worst thing in the game's history? I dunno about that especially when we have atrocities like ARR.

The game is functional. The content offered is hollow, combat is bland, and there's still a metric ton of problems under the hood but at least it more or less works. 2.0 had all the current problems and then some.

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Did you play during ARR? There was actually a lot to do back then, the game was new so everything felt fresh. We got 3 dungeons per patch. Got ninja in 2.4. Relics actually kept you busy and tome upgrade items outside of savage you had to farm and roll for in the 24 mans, at least for ST, they made the weekly quest for WoD. Maybe the MSQ wasn't great for ARR but it was serviceable enough back then and everyone was gushing about 2.5 (or was it 2.55, probably that) when that came out. Of course they walked pretty much all of that back immediately in HW but at the time people were excited about it.

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Originally Posted by Restonance

Don't get me wrong, EW is bad. Calling it the worst thing in the game's history? I dunno about that especially when we have atrocities like ARR.

The game is functional. The content offered is hollow, combat is bland, and there's still a metric ton of problems under the hood but at least it more or less works. 2.0 had all the current problems and then some.

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It can't have been that much of an "atrocity" - the game wouldn't have survived if it had been.

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Originally Posted by Sheriyana

Did you play during ARR? There was actually a lot to do back then, the game was new so everything felt fresh. We got 3 dungeons per patch. Got ninja in 2.4. Relics actually kept you busy and tome upgrade items outside of savage you had to farm and roll for in the 24 mans, at least for ST, they made the weekly quest for WoD. Maybe the MSQ wasn't great for ARR but it was serviceable enough back then and everyone was gushing about 2.5 (or was it 2.55, probably that) when that came out. Of course they walked pretty much all of that back immediately in HW but at the time people were excited about it.

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I did play ARR back then and I was incredibly bored by 2.5 and even early 3.1

ARR offered content but it also came with a marid of other problems like how you couldn't get into raids because joining a static was so much harder back then. I Remember the story being so unenaging I didn't even do it until a week before Heavensward. ARR's relic is still the most grueling thing I ever did. Running 200 Brayflox Longstop Hardmodes just for one relic weapon for a single job.

I agree that we do get fewer content today per patch than we did back then. But that content back then wasn't that much better in terms of quality. And without the QoL we have today, the game was in a much worse spot back then. There is so much more freedom now.

I wouldn't' say its the lowest point. ARR takes that title by a mile. EW probably rivals Stormblood in disappointment.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

Nope.
S - Endwalker and Shadowbringers
A - Heavensward and Stormblood
B - ARR

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This is exactly how I'd rate them lol.

I would rate them

S- Shadowbringers and Heavensward
A- Stormblood
B- Endwalker
C- ARR

S being both story and post launch content and performance at the highest level.

Stormblood was good post launch content wise but the the MSQ lacked a tad bit. If SB didnt have such great post launch content it would be a B or C.
Endwalker is a solid B. The story is lackluster and rushed for the main 6.0 patch and you can tell in the pacing. We have had 1 game breaking bug every patch so far in the 6.X series and the post launch content is probably the worst it has ever been considering the relic is simply just turn in tomes.

If you're gonna grade all expacs, you need to separate their Content from their MSQ, and by Launch and their Post-Launch.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

In terms of Story:
ShB > HW > SB > EW > ARR

In terms of Content:
SB > ShB >HW > ARR > EW

7.0 better not be more of the same.

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About the same estimation here, though with HW, SB, and EW all basically equal for storytelling.



I honestly feel that the amount of brain-muting required to fully enjoy Endwalker's story... was neither new nor unique to Endwalker, that HW's story was slightly overhyped, and StB's story slightly over-condemned.

In all cases, you damn near have to treat the game's implementation of the story as if it were limited to a stage with cobbled-together props, each sort of shitting the bed, props-wise, in different but similarly annoying ways. HW could left zones, especially the Hinterlands, still in great need of fleshing out or further means of engagement; Stormblood massively failed on counts of scale, such that the entire nation of Doma seemed to be sourced by two villages' (one already ruined) worth of people, and the Azim's Steppes frequently-blood-feuding tribes were within a brief jog of each other; Shadowbringers key setting relied, imo, too heavily "Oo, it's our world but not!" often in place of finishing the geopolitical narrative of a dying world and wasted the Waste (all to put the Nier setting somehow inside a random ugly mountain?); and then you have space-probe-bird-girl having a seemingly outsized influence (because the narrative can't seem to decide on the relative power of the Ancients or their creations over the larger universe on the mere basis that it's the... sort-of beginning of everything, and yet also not?), and relegate everyone's and their cat's brain canon on Garlemalde... to a single modestly-sized plot of city outskirts.

In context, those decisions will make some sense, at least in a "best as could be done" sort of way, as in the whole idea is that Garlemalde isn't really anything new or special --just the latest point of another's spear-- or that nihilism is the most essential threat to existence regardless of time and space, etc., etc. But, as it is an explorable space and therefore expected to not just a backdrop for a certain slant of storytelling, that's of course going to be a shortfall.

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Originally Posted by R041

If you're gonna grade all expacs, you need to separate their Content from their MSQ, and by Launch and their Post-Launch.

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This, honestly.

If I had to rate it according to this, for me personally, it would be:

Content:
S - ShB
A - HW, EW
B - SB, ARR.

I rank SB lowly because whilst it had, say, exploratory and deep dungeon, I don't think either of them had enough substance. I felt with Eureka a lot of it largely came down to... I was doing it because of relics, not because exploratory at the time was something grand and revolutionary, at least not until BA anyway, ShB I at least felt semi-comfortable that I was in there because it was somewhat enjoyable and not because of relics... EW I rate highly for a myriad of reasons. If I look at it in terms of enjoyment I think it's appropriate - If I look at it exclusively in terms of replay value then I'd score it a little differently - But I'm giving the benefit of the doubt in that Island and V/C dungeons are still a WIP., Just wish they had more 1-time only steps for the relic. ShB wins here courtesy of having Ishgard Restoration, I've packed more hours into this than most other content, and some of the socializing in Diadem has been great.

Base Story:
S - ShB
A - EW, HW
B - SB, ARR.

Post-patch story:
This is where a little more variance comes into play but...
S - HW
A - SB, ARR (Bloody Banquet carried it so hard. - It had a metric tonne of filler, but the story was still there)
B - ShB, ARR.
F - EW

I rate ShB so lowly because the build-up simply wasn't suited to the format that EW ended up going with, and similarly wasted far too much time on useless towers, and what they did to Elidibus was a straight-up criminal, raw unmitigated tragedy. EW fails because predictable and the whole all trials being tied to MSQ just simply kills it for me. I said it to a friend, but I'll repeat it here, (and this has no bearing on how I feel about 7.0 itself but just the volume of disappointment that I have felt with it), I'm more excited for this story to just be over than I am for experiencing a new one.

I don't have nearly as much to say about rankings as others here. For me it's just

ARR: good, but dragged a bunch
HW: awesome
SB: boring
ShB: good for the most part
EW: good for the most part