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06-22-2012, 10:50 AM
KujinRen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryans

Considering how much they are playing up Odin in their 2.0 spoilers, I am seriously starting to thinking that people are correct when they say Odin is inside, or riding on, Dalamund. I don't think we've heard any lore related to Odin so it would make sense that he isn't from Eorzea.

Sometimes I wonder if "Odin" is hidden Emperor of the Garleans... *enter dramatic music here*
06-22-2012, 12:58 PM
FallenRaine

Quote:

Originally Posted by KujinRen

Sometimes I wonder if "Odin" is hidden Emperor of the Garleans... *enter dramatic music here*

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-I8bur7YE6I...eLightning.jpg
06-22-2012, 01:05 PM
FallenRaine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryans

Considering how much they are playing up Odin in their 2.0 spoilers, I am seriously starting to thinking that people are correct when they say Odin is inside, or riding on, Dalamund. I don't think we've heard any lore related to Odin so it would make sense that he isn't from Eorzea.

he's in Dalamud like this?

http://www.geekologie.com/2009/08/06...ar-costume.jpg
06-22-2012, 05:32 PM
bobbygunz

Yoshi has way too much of a love obsession with World of Warcraft. It's old news Yoshi! Get with the times!
06-22-2012, 05:45 PM
Jynx

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbygunz

Yoshi has way too much of a love obsession with World of Warcraft. It's old news Yoshi! Get with the times!

Man mentions he likes WoW "mention is repeated a million times by news outlets" = Yoshida is obsessed with WoW.

Logic.

Can the man not visit another MMO developer and recognize their accomplishments? I'm no fan of WoW myself but Yoshida seems anything but "Obsessed" with them. It's hard to avoid mentioning them in interviews considering they are a massive force in the industry.
06-22-2012, 06:18 PM
Airget

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jynx

Man mentions he likes WoW "mention is repeated a million times by news outlets" = Yoshida is obsessed with WoW.

Logic.

Can the man not visit another MMO developer and recognize their accomplishments? I'm no fan of WoW myself but Yoshida seems anything but "Obsessed" with them. It's hard to avoid mentioning them in interviews considering they are a massive force in the industry.

Yep, in order to make something great, better or even just competitive with another product you have to understand and respect the product you are up against. Compared to any other MMO out there WoW is pretty much the only one that's been able to keep such a high population for as long as it's been around for. Not even a brand like star wars is enough to ring in the amount of people an MMO such as WoW has and Yoshida recognizes this. He understands that if you want to create something of a specific genre you have to look around and see what works and what doesn't work.

It also helps the fact that he is actually an MMO player that has played other MMOs and a basic MMOer can tell you that simply copying the mechanics of WoW just doesn't work no matter how many developers try to do it it just doesn't work. So with that XIV alrdy took the proper direction even when it was first released, it just failed to deliver on content to keep people occupied and instead had it's own set of limitations to prevent you from doing said content as much as you like.

With the current XIV setup the majority of content is more wide opened, varied and accesible to the average casual gamer. And there's still content there for the hardcores to enjoy, but at the same time the events that the hardcores enjoy can be enjoyed by the more casual players, they just might not be able to reach that same lv that the hardcores can.

You need just enough variety to keep the common player attached to a game, but also enough challenging content to keep the more competitive gamers around to make an MMO work. When you focus on to much on one side or the other you run into the following issues:
SWTOR=Heavily focused on casual, pretty much causes all the hardcore and fans of SW to jump ship once they fulfilled all the content and realize that there really isn't much challenge to it.

Megaten Online=Heavily focused on unforgiving death penalty as well as very risky weapon/armor upgrading system. It uses cash shops to alleviate said issues but that's where a hardcore/casual player does come in, where the casual may spend money to get better at the same time a lot of events are set around groups and you can't really ever do anything solo aside from lving to an extent. A better example though and ones people will be familiar with is

EVE=Highly Complex and highly unforgiving game which pretty much discourages any casual player from playing it, however this form of extreme difficulty does manage to draw in the right amount of hardcore players to keep the game alive.

So ya it all comes down to balance. With a title like Final Fantasy it has such a wide fanbase that if you were to focus on the casual only or hardcore only you would end up discouraging a good amount of players from playing said mmo. Now with what we've seen so far we can see that 14 is going in a more unique direction by having it play a lot of homages to the FF series rather then be a standalone like 11. So that in itself is a good tool which could draw in a lot of casual/hardcores of the series that may be interested in seeing past FF concepts incorporated into an MMO and see how they flesh out. They will also be given the hope that in the future even more homages will be put into the game so they would always be looking forward to the next VU as well as expansions.

Just a few more months though, and we'll get to see what he's managed to make of everything. Well maybe sooner when they decide to release the site and 1.23 sounds like it'll be a starting point to ease players into the changes from 1.0-2.0. There's definitely a lot to look forward to this summer for 14.
06-22-2012, 08:55 PM
bobbygunz

There is more to a game than just the User Interface or how it rates on the hardcore/casual spectrum. There has been an overt paradigm shift in combat mechanics in recent MMOs lately, and far less emphasis on the WoW UI-centric type playstyles, yet it's almost as if Yoshi has focused his efforts almost entirely on regurgitating those two elements of WoW which are now outdated.
06-22-2012, 09:11 PM
yukikaze_yanagi

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbygunz

There is more to a game than just the User Interface or how it rates on the hardcore/casual spectrum. There has been an overt paradigm shift in combat mechanics in recent MMOs lately, and far less emphasis on the WoW UI-centric type playstyles, yet it's almost as if Yoshi has focused his efforts almost entirely on regurgitating those two elements of WoW which are now outdated.

Oh, really ? You can take the old ui if you feel it so pro
06-22-2012, 09:50 PM
Biggs

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbygunz

There is more to a game than just the User Interface or how it rates on the hardcore/casual spectrum. There has been an overt paradigm shift in combat mechanics in recent MMOs lately, and far less emphasis on the WoW UI-centric type playstyles, yet it's almost as if Yoshi has focused his efforts almost entirely on regurgitating those two elements of WoW which are now outdated.

True, but none of said skills of these combat mechanics have (as of yet) paid the bills like WOW's had. Again, not a fan of WOW, but they clearly did something no one else has been able to repeat yet financially.
06-23-2012, 12:45 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggs

True, but none of said skills of these combat mechanics have (as of yet) paid the bills like WOW's had. Again, not a fan of WOW, but they clearly did something no one else has been able to repeat yet financially.

They caught the train at the right time in terms of MMOs. MMOs always existed, but with more use of the internet, liittle kids growing up and poking around, plaster ads everywhere and on TV you'll make a killing.

This is the only reason WoW was successful, you couldn't go to one website without seeing a WoW ad, much like Maplestory, you couldn't browse without seeing the cutesy characters telling you to join. Fyi, Maplestory was and still is one of the most popular MMOs to date as well. Like I've said before, WoW is the FFVII of MMOs: Came at the right place at the right time, VII was inferior to most FF games yet still acclaimed as one of the best simply because it was many people's first FF game as well as the first "next-gen" FF game even though we can all agree earlier and later FF games are much better and more polished.
06-23-2012, 12:56 AM
Krausus

was also designed to work on about any non ancient PC as well which opened it up to a lot of people.
06-23-2012, 12:59 AM
Airget

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexia

They caught the train at the right time in terms of MMOs. MMOs always existed, but with more use of the internet, liittle kids growing up and poking around, plaster ads everywhere and on TV you'll make a killing.

This is the only reason WoW was successful, you couldn't go to one website without seeing a WoW ad, much like Maplestory, you couldn't browse without seeing the cutesy characters telling you to join. Fyi, Maplestory was and still is one of the most popular MMOs to date as well. Like I've said before, WoW is the FFVII of MMOs: Came at the right place at the right time, VII was inferior to most FF games yet still acclaimed as one of the best simply because it was many people's first FF game as well as the first "next-gen" FF game even though we can all agree earlier and later FF games are much better and more polished.

While I"ll agree with some I"ll say that FF7 wasn't a fluke when it came out. Just look at FF13 it came out at a time in which a lot of RPGs weren't out for the ps3 and even then people were disappointed with how linear the game felt. Then look at FF7 the world was just so big and alive, had so much to do that to say it's a fluke it did so well is somewhat mistaken. It's nothing like WoW release, it's not the fact that it came out at the right time but it came out during a time when mmo players were more forgiving. Even FFXI had the same handicap as WoW when it came out. If I'm not mistaken, when XI was first released within those first few months they made tweaks to the magics certain jobs had and such. Also there was no concept such as Skillchain and magic bursting so players pretty much had to use the strategy which is used now and that's the beatdown of just spamming WS. Though at that time players didn't wield strong weaponskills like they do now so you can imagine how long it must have taken to fell foes.

Within those 10yrs though a lot has changed an mmo like swtor would have worked and maybe even been a bigger hit then WoW if it was released in the same year but now developers have to think more before they act. People are less forgiving in this age and will gladly toss aside an p2p mmo to play a random cheap and dinky f2p mmo. It's tough but ya, in order for MMOs to survive in this age they not only need to have decent coding and limited bugs upon release but they also need enough content to keep a wide range of players interested and challenged. But that's where the issue comes in, as you add in more content you risk the chance of adding more bugs, and if those bugs are game breaking people will leave. On the otherhand if you have less content then you lower your chances of having bugs in a game but increase the odds of players becoming bored and having nothing to do so they just leave.
06-23-2012, 01:03 AM
Hyrist

Hmm about the Odin Speculation.

Wonder what would happen if White Raven and Black Wolf got melded together by Meteor and became Odin... The armor certainly does look like an unnatural mixing of the two.
06-23-2012, 01:20 AM
yukikaze_yanagi

meh.
actually, i think the "master" Darnus refear could be really odin
06-23-2012, 01:22 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyrist

Hmm about the Odin Speculation.

Wonder what would happen if White Raven and Black Wolf got melded together by Meteor and became Odin... The armor certainly does look like an unnatural mixing of the two.

You know, for someone trying to get rid of Primals (and one trying to cleanse Eorzea), I don't see why people expect them to become one xD
06-23-2012, 01:30 AM
Elexia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airget

While I"ll agree with some I"ll say that FF7 wasn't a fluke when it came out. Just look at FF13 it came out at a time in which a lot of RPGs weren't out for the ps3 and even then people were disappointed with how linear the game felt. Then look at FF7 the world was just so big and alive, had so much to do that to say it's a fluke it did so well is somewhat mistaken. It's nothing like WoW release, it's not the fact that it came out at the right time but it came out during a time when mmo players were more forgiving. Even FFXI had the same handicap as WoW when it came out. If I'm not mistaken, when XI was first released within those first few months they made tweaks to the magics certain jobs had and such. Also there was no concept such as Skillchain and magic bursting so players pretty much had to use the strategy which is used now and that's the beatdown of just spamming WS. Though at that time players didn't wield strong weaponskills like they do now so you can imagine how long it must have taken to fell foes.

Within those 10yrs though a lot has changed an mmo like swtor would have worked and maybe even been a bigger hit then WoW if it was released in the same year but now developers have to think more before they act. People are less forgiving in this age and will gladly toss aside an p2p mmo to play a random cheap and dinky f2p mmo. It's tough but ya, in order for MMOs to survive in this age they not only need to have decent coding and limited bugs upon release but they also need enough content to keep a wide range of players interested and challenged. But that's where the issue comes in, as you add in more content you risk the chance of adding more bugs, and if those bugs are game breaking people will leave. On the otherhand if you have less content then you lower your chances of having bugs in a game but increase the odds of players becoming bored and having nothing to do so they just leave.

Indeed, it wasn't a complete fluke, but it also had a lot of advantages given release time. MMO wise yeah people are less forgiving but also a lot more picky and impatient overall, so this is the main reason new MMOs fail or go under the radar no matter how good or bad, people expect a lot out of it and also expect to be able to do everything and get everything right off the bat which no MMO can realistically keep up with those expectations without allowing an ending to it and simply offering a "replay" option (i.e D3.)

MMO market today is oversaturated which is why people can easily skip around MMOs in one doesn't sate their tastes for too long. Tera for example didn't do as well as it could in it's asian markets, but outwest since it's "new" from the typical MMO, people are eating it up just like they did Rift, but even Rift tapered off simply because it's almost impossible to meet expectations these days, this is why WoW was at the right place in the right period of the transition of MMOs becoming more mainstream.
06-23-2012, 01:31 AM
Hulan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyrist

Hmm about the Odin Speculation.

Wonder what would happen if White Raven and Black Wolf got melded together by Meteor and became Odin... The armor certainly does look like an unnatural mixing of the two.

I'm getting much more of an "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" vibe from the Black Wolf. I suspect that while he might not help us kill the White Raven, he may be on the sidelines quietly rooting for us. It's a fun little twist that Square Enix quite likes, as I recall. The villain who isn't really that bad, just different principles and even helps out from time to time when it comes to the "true evil".
06-23-2012, 01:49 AM
Starlord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexia

You know, for someone trying to get rid of Primals (and one trying to cleanse Eorzea), I don't see why people expect them to become one xD

But if he's the one that IS a Primal.. then it will meet his vision Because he just after Domination, if becoming a Primal meets that goal then soo be it.
06-23-2012, 01:53 AM
Krausus

doesn't being a primal entail being aligned with an element and being worshiped by a beastman tribe, wouldn't Odin be much more than a primal and thus not necessarily what the empire is trying to destroy.
06-23-2012, 02:33 AM
Alerith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krausus

doesn't being a primal entail being aligned with an element and being worshiped by a beastman tribe, wouldn't Odin be much more than a primal and thus not necessarily what the empire is trying to destroy.

I think being worshiped by a beastmen tribe is a perk more than a requirement. The Amal'jaa hail Ifrit because they're fire aligned, the Ixal hail Garuda because they are wind aligned. I wouldn't say it's necessary for a Primal to have a tribe to align to.

And Odin is the/an "Elder Primal", so he is a Primal regardless of his function.

That being said, I do not believe Darnus was speaking of Odin. I'm almost convinced it was Ultima/Omega, as the appearance of Ultima/Omega's armor is a near match to Darnus's.

If anything, during the reign of the Allag Empire, Odin could have been the Empire's Primal while Omega was laying waste to the land. Allag summoned Odin and Odin fought with Omega in a huge battle that laid waste to the Empire. The remnants of the Empire would seal both Odin and Omega in Dalamud and throw their asses into space.
06-23-2012, 03:38 AM
Sagagemini

I got cancer from reading this topic.
06-23-2012, 03:53 AM
Hyrist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexia

You know, for someone trying to get rid of Primals (and one trying to cleanse Eorzea), I don't see why people expect them to become one xD

I'm thinking "Horrific accident in which Black Wolf makes an attempt of his own to stop Darnus and causes a magical disaster that scars Eorza (instead of destroying it) and melts the two person's together into one twisted and wandering primal known as Odin."
06-23-2012, 03:58 AM
Velhart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexia

You know, for someone trying to get rid of Primals (and one trying to cleanse Eorzea), I don't see why people expect them to become one xD

It would definitely be ironic if that is the case.

All I know is, there is something bigger than Darnus, and I can't wait to find out who.
06-23-2012, 04:00 AM
Deceived

Can anyone quickly cliff notes the current storyline for those of us who haven't exactly been following it? [It seems to be picking up a bit and I'd sure like to actually enjoy this upcoming CSs].
06-23-2012, 09:09 AM
Solodayz

Quote:

(I also got this super rare souvenir! I just wish I had time to play the game... /cry)

Sadly that's what I would assume a large chunk of players are doing atm, myself included lol...
06-24-2012, 02:47 AM
Biggs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elexia

They caught the train at the right time in terms of MMOs. MMOs always existed, but with more use of the internet, liittle kids growing up and poking around, plaster ads everywhere and on TV you'll make a killing.

This is the only reason WoW was successful, you couldn't go to one website without seeing a WoW ad, much like Maplestory, you couldn't browse without seeing the cutesy characters telling you to join. Fyi, Maplestory was and still is one of the most popular MMOs to date as well. Like I've said before, WoW is the FFVII of MMOs: Came at the right place at the right time, VII was inferior to most FF games yet still acclaimed as one of the best simply because it was many people's first FF game as well as the first "next-gen" FF game even though we can all agree earlier and later FF games are much better and more polished.

I disagree that it was the ONLY reason that game was successful and still very much is. If what your saying were true, people would have played it for 6months to a year and then quit when something better came out. To say that advertising and timing were the only 2 components that made that game the largest selling MMO of all time is just ignorant.
06-24-2012, 06:50 AM
Alerith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggs

I disagree that it was the ONLY reason that game was successful and still very much is. If what your saying were true, people would have played it for 6months to a year and then quit when something better came out. To say that advertising and timing were the only 2 components that made that game the largest selling MMO of all time is just ignorant.

While I do agree with you, look at how MMO players can be. When WoW came out, people who discovered this MMO thing could have got the attachment/addiction to it and simply can't/won't quit after that 6 month phase.

There are white knight fanboys in WoW just as much as there are here. Never underestimate a large group of people unwilling to give up an addiction.

Now excuse me while I go reactivate FFXI for my 9th year of playing... >_>

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