Casual vs Hardcore

So, if you have a job and a wife/girlfriend you should be denied the chance completely to advance to certain areas/levels?

Advancement should be awarded to the skilled, not just the 30 year old virgin that plays 20 hours a day.

The way you put it, if you have a job you should be denied access to the best gear. I got some news for you, if you're playing 20 hours a day, you obviously don't have a job. Nice way to bite the hand that feeds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Babydoll

rofl this. my friend who is extremely casual (plays once in a blue moon, afks mid fight, halfass plays etc) did ifrit..first run got ifrits claws for his mnk..his only job lol and then did 2 more ifrit..got the axe. never did it again. perfect example of why rng is so fail.

---

Haha beginner's luck

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Alll the hardcore people BLM burned Garuda.. 6/7 weapons /shades on

---

Only 6? You're not hardcore. And your shades are missing a lens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Only 6? You're not hardcore. And your shades are missing a lens.

---

Hardcore enough to get 6 and my double melded Lighting brand beats Garuda so watevs /shades on

Could you pose more? I need a picture. Really brandish your hardcore doublemeld.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

So, if you have a job and a wife/girlfriend you should be denied the chance completely to advance to certain areas/levels?

Advancement should be awarded to the skilled, not just the 30 year old virgin that plays 20 hours a day.

The way you put it, if you have a job you should be denied access to the best gear. I got some news for you, if you're playing 20 hours a day, you obviously don't have a job. Nice way to bite the hand that feeds.

---

Exactly!

/10char

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Could you pose more? I need a picture. Really brandish your hardcore doublemeld.

---

/pose /shades on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

Hardcore enough to get 6 and my double melded Lighting brand beats Garuda so watevs /shades on

---

mayb i'm noob, i nvr thought any double meld thm weapon would beat Garuda so watevs, it's have INT 30, M.acc 25 Enimty -30 just FYI

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leo_Hart

mayb i'm noob, i nvr thought any double meld thm weapon would beat Garuda so watevs, it's have INT 30, M.acc 25 Enimty -30 just FYI

---

I use a lightning brand +1 w/ +30 Int ( its actually a triple melded X 3 +10 int materia) which comes with +20 Attack magic potency and +12 lightning magic potency, so yets its better then garudas for pure dmg, barring you can reach a comfortable MACC where you wont resist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

So, if you have a job and a wife/girlfriend you should be denied the chance completely to advance to certain areas/levels?

Advancement should be awarded to the skilled, not just the 30 year old virgin that plays 20 hours a day.

The way you put it, if you have a job you should be denied access to the best gear. I got some news for you, if you're playing 20 hours a day, you obviously don't have a job. Nice way to bite the hand that feeds.

---

Everyone got his chance in FFXI - just not as fast as "the 30 year old virgin" would. And I doubt you'd enjoy getting all items blown into your butt because you're amazing, no? You might want to consider playing SWTOR then, could be the better choice for you! :3

The moment everyone is able to get something, its not special anymore. And if you can't accept the fact that it might take you half a year longer to obtain an item than the "30 year old virgin" while playing 2 hours at the weekend, you certainly have a problem.

In all fairness to FFXI, during it's prime time, the idea of casual and hardcore didn't exist, well...mostly because hardcore was the mass majority of MMO's at that time.

I do agree with a couple statements here:

-The idea of casual and hardcore should not be a key factor into making a game. Content should not be revolved around an RNG system. Gear and rewards should be rewarded to the skilled players, not exactly the time investors or lucky. I can invest all the time in the world into the game, and I can still be a horrible player with nice gear. It shouldn't be this way, I want end game to be challenging like FFXI provided, and ended in rewards. Difficulty shouldn't be measured by time investment or luck. I believe a token system works for getting gear through content that helps get you geared up for raids that require that gear (Refering to WoW's system kinda.).

-What another person said was very true. If SE wants to go with the casual/hardcore balance, then they need to remember who are the ones who will most likely stay with them in the long run, the hardcore. The casuals do have a tendency to go from one game over to another, making them fickle. While that doesn't speak for all casuals, it is a common trait in the MMO community and if SE did have to cater to someone first, it should be the hardcore, but at the same time, don't shut the casual player out either.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but WoW did truly find a balance with casual and hardcore. You could get your valor points anytime during the week. In raids, you can only do one once a week, however you could put the raid on hold during the week, and your group can progress through it at their own pace during the week. You could either go hardcore on it and finish it in a day, or you could go the casual route and fight two bosses a night. It was your choice and your end result at the end of the week would be the same as the other person next to you.

This created influence that you didn't have to be on every day of the week. Not to mention, it wasn't time investment that got you the best stuff, it was the skills to take down the boss that got you the best stuff.

Overall, skill is what matters the most, not who is willing to put more time in than one another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

/pose /shades on

---

Work it! /snap XD lol

2.0



/10char

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Work it! /snap XD lol

---

/dance /pose /shades on :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SynysterBlitz

/dance /pose /shades on :D

---

UHN-tss...UHN-tss...UHN-tss

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...080-Djpon3.png

MMO are for people that have 3-4h a day to play.

Can't play 4h a day? Go and play an offline game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eekiki

UHN-tss...UHN-tss...UHN-tss

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...080-Djpon3.png

---

hahaha awesome :) LET'S PARRTAYYYYYYY

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vax

MMO are for people that have 3-4h a day to play.

Can't play 4h a day? Go and play an offline game.

---

I agree...

I brought Glo-Sticks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gentaro

Everyone got his chance in FFXI - just not as fast as "the 30 year old virgin" would. And I doubt you'd enjoy getting all items blown into your butt because you're amazing, no? You might want to consider playing SWTOR then, could be the better choice for you! :3

The moment everyone is able to get something, its not special anymore. And if you can't accept the fact that it might take you half a year longer to obtain an item than the "30 year old virgin" while playing 2 hours at the weekend, you certainly have a problem.

---

I'm guessing you're the virgin I was referring to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

I'm guessing you're the virgin I was referring to.

---

Quote:

---

LOL DEAL WITH IT NERD! GET A LIFE TRYHARD XD

---

I would rather play with the autistic socially defunct quiet virgin then you any day of the week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I brought Glo-Sticks!

---

Ohhh shitttt its Rave time!!!!!

By the way, if there are any female 30 year old virgins out there, let's talk. Hit me up.

The trick is in the balance. I am a staunch defender of Launch FFXI to around 2007, yet dislike the direction of 1.0 FFXIV. I and I assume many others want some of the challenge that made FFXI so great to be carried into FFXIV. As I said in the Bioware thread, there is a market for a more in-depth MMO experience.

That being said for any MMO to thrive in today's crowded market you need to incorporate as many people as possible while still offering sufficient challenge to make the game last for more than 3 months. Let's break it down.

Currently, there is nothing really to differentiate casual with hardcore aside from these hastily implemented relics. In addition I believe the term casual is thrown around much to dismissively and people treat them as if they are a sub-human race. What we have to realize is that their feedback is valuable in making a game succeed or fail as is the feedback of players who classify themselves as hardcore. I absolutely hate it when the community picks on those who can't devote as much time to the game. In the end it hurts the game and it hurts the community. The FFXI community had a similar problem. Everyone should have the ability to play a MMO regardless of time commitment. Ridiculing these people as many of you are doing does absolutely nothing for the game.

As I said the trick is to bring everyone into the fold. The solution is thus, content. Looking back at FFXI when it was released, I was on three sports teams, was prepping for entrance exams to university and had a plethora of extra-curricular activities to participate in. Yet, when I logged on to FFXI, I never once felt that I was being ostracized due to the difficulty. There was simply so much to do. Even when relics were released there, It didn't bother me one iota because the game had many other things to focus on that gave me a sense of fulfillment for my time commitment.The relics in XI were the cherry on top of the cake.

The problem with XIV is that SE timed the release of these relics quite poorly. They released them more than likely to tide people over until 2.0. However, what they didn't take into the equation was that they were releasing it using an outdated quest system that will be scrapped in 2.0 and utilize content that the majority of the people hate. Many realize that this is just a massive time sink and as there is little else to do it has created the chaos that we have seen on the forums in the past 2 weeks with the few who are willing to grind this out making fun of and belittling those who do not want to participate in this quest, while they in turn ridicule the so-called hardcores.

In XI people didn't complain about the grind to get relics to the extent that they do now because there was simply, CONTENT. FFXIV at this point in time does not have adequate content, hence why the release of relics were so poorly timed. SE should have utilized a quest progression system and less grinding to release cool looking Artifact weapons and saved the Legendary's and Relics for 2.0 when there will be a lot more to do. All they have succeeded in doing right now is divide the community and create two distinct camps around the vague terms "casual and hardcore."

Everyone can agree we want more content, more difficult content and content that caters to all. Give us a taste of it all and people will be happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaizlu

But, the whole relic quest smells of "casual".

Casual Jimmy can get lucky and get stuff in a day, while hardcore Johnny couldn't get anything while spamming content in a week.

---

I agree with both, the op and Kaizlu, we need a system where the player is rewarded according their effort, casual play= lesser gear, hardcore play= best gear by far, FFXI did that right, i remember loging in and watching people with a relic weapon and an exclusive weapon skill, and i looked forward everytime to get those relics, i remember when i got to see sky for the first time with my character i was excited about getting better gear and achieving my entrance to that exclusive area.

We all know now that the WoW formula cant be repeated seeing all those games that died fast after a few months of being released, WoW formula applies only for WoW and this game should appeal to something different, MMO's should and must have long term goals.

And just to make my point, im not a hardcore player, i work and have a family, but i like having something in return for the time i invest in this game, having those goals might give me an incentive to make my time worth even if its not much, i might not get a relic in 1 month or 2 as others will, but maybe in a few months i can have something i can feel happy and proud to have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

I'm guessing you're the virgin I was referring to.

---

Sry, I'm off the market since almost 7 years now ;) But i have this tiny bit of respect towards other people.

Quote:

---

FFXIV at this point in time does not have adequate content

---

I agree that the life of this thread is sustained by boredom. u.u

Quote:

---

I think it needs to be a difference between hardcore and casual players, why does the casual player that only plays 1-2 hrs a day or less should be able to get the same gear/weapon as the guy that loves the game and has nothing else to do than play...

---

The other side can just as easily flip this around and say why can't the guy that loves the game and has nothing else to do than play find something more fufilling to do with their life.

These groups of people can coexist, there is no good reason why they have to butt horns. I'm not really sure what you're complaining about anyway. I don't see any "casuals" playing for 1 or 2 hours here and there that have full darklight or a relic weapon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nox

I believe this has been brought up more times than I can remember. Regardless the whole debate on the casuals vs hardcore is a very touchy one. While I DO believe that there should certainly be more stuff in game that caters to the hardcores, keep in mind that a hardcore player will by default have many more things than a casual player does in game. Therefore in a sense, that in itself is your "reward". While a hardcore might have all or most classes at max (including crafting and gathering) a casual will only have a few. Now add on to that all the in game experience that a hardcore has compared to a casual (namely knowing where to go, what to do, how to use their class/job properly, etc) because of the time invested and you've got yourself a pretty evened out situation imo.

---

I was hardcore player in FFXI with only 4 75s and spending 90% of my time on my red mage. I also had thf,smn and blm.

Quote:

---

FFXIV at this point in time does not have adequate content

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I agree that the life of this thread is sustained by boredom. u.u

---

This is basically FFXIV in a nutshell right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chain

So, if you have a job and a wife/girlfriend you should be denied the chance completely to advance to certain areas/levels?

Advancement should be awarded to the skilled, not just the 30 year old virgin that plays 20 hours a day.

The way you put it, if you have a job you should be denied access to the best gear. I got some news for you, if you're playing 20 hours a day, you obviously don't have a job. Nice way to bite the hand that feeds.

---

I dnt mean to denied the casual player but to make it as hard to get as a hardcore...
In FFXI we had 1day, 2-3days downtime which I think its genius... 2-3 hrs a day events, everyday different events if you were in an organized shell, on top of the HNMS (2-3 hrs window on a 24hr repop) and Merits... this is before abyssea, where i quit the game...
Thats a hardcore player that will get better gear... and at the same time casuals can also do it but on a slow passe.

i choose not to adhere to these frivolous labels any longer!

from this day forward I declare myself Hard Casual!

Ow! Soda... in nose... >.<

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morticous

hardcore doesn't have to mean daily time played 4 hrs +..... Just make content that only GOOD players can pass :D

---

time playing is exactly what hardcore is hardcore =/= skill any casual can be just as skilled as any hardcore player if they want to.

People need to understand the difference between not being able to advance and not being able to advance as fast. Realistically, a casual player will never be able to not advance in anything. However, what most people that want a bigger gap between hardcore/casual is that the hardcores shouldn't be capped so the casuals can catch up faster. Kind of like how fatigue worked, a hardcore could grind all he wanted but eventually reach restrictions, but a casual could go at his pace and advance at a ratio that is higher than the hardcore's.

Personally, I think this is why I believe hard mode in dungeons are a wonderful thing. Casuals can experience the same content without having the spend as much time but the people that spend more time in the game can advance at a faster rate and go against a more difficult challenge at the same time. This is why I'm happy that Yoshida said that he will add this in 2.0.

I myself am completely against on how XI worked. Needing a countless amount of time to actually advance in the game is not good game design. However I do agree with things such as a party reaping more rewards than solo.

I would just ask that the content is accessible for both.

I don't have that much time to play but that doesn't mean I don't like the challenge. I like the fact that if I only have a few hours to play, when I do, I can get a group of friends and do Ifrit, CC, w/e. I don't have to worry that to fight Ifrit I need to log on a spawn window when my RL agenda is free and then see if I even get lucky to claim. That does not mean I want an easier fight or better drop rates, I still have only 2 totems and 0 weapons and I will still feel accomplished when I finally get one!
Obviously by the time that happens a "hardcore" will already have all of them, but at least I still have a shot at actually enjoying the content, the challenge and reward of it.

Once again do not aim for easier just that its actually accessible. I played FFXI as a student with tons of free time and was "hardcore" for most part. When I had no time to play seemed impossible to achieve goals, so it would be nice that it wasn't extremist this time around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gentaro

Everyone got his chance in FFXI - just not as fast as "the 30 year old virgin" would. And I doubt you'd enjoy getting all items blown into your butt because you're amazing, no? You might want to consider playing SWTOR then, could be the better choice for you! :3

The moment everyone is able to get something, its not special anymore. And if you can't accept the fact that it might take you half a year longer to obtain an item than the "30 year old virgin" while playing 2 hours at the weekend, you certainly have a problem.

---

I suspect the point was, don't lock people out based on the amount of time they spend playing in a day/week/month. In no way does that mean that everyone should be able to get [item] it means that whether I play 2 hours a day or 12 hours a day I should be able to attempt the content to get it, and if I have the skill to win I should not be barred.

The whole hardcore casual debate isn't even about hardcore and casual it's about time spent playing and not, hardcore is a matter of skill and determination not how much can be played in a day.

If I spend 100 hours building a [item] I should have the same progress as you on the [item]. This is assuming that we complete the same amount of content in 100 hours of play. Whether my 100 takes 6 weeks or 6 months, if yours takes 5 days good for you, not really if your playing 20 hours a day 5 days a week somethings not ok. But the point remains, anyone that is willing to put in the time should be afforded equal chance to get [item].

Start looking at hardcore vs. casual as a skill and determination description instead of as time played in a day/week/month at no point should anyone paying for a game be told, oh you don't play enough/month to enter that dungeon and get [item].

Quote:

---

Start looking at hardcore vs. casual as a skill and determination description instead of as time played in a day/week/month at no point should anyone paying for a game be told, oh you don't play enough/month to enter that dungeon and get [item].

---

Most the hardcores I know don't play AT ALL. They play for 2 weeks straight, burn through the content and vanish with their lewt. It's definitely not the TIME. It's all in the approach and attitude towards the content and other players. If someone throws a good part of their lives on hold to play 2 weeks of FFXIV and burn through content for 12 hours straight, with mechanical effeciency, that's my version of hardcore.

Most people who play do the same thing of course, but not in such a condensed period of time. My Luminary hatchet took 4 months to get. For hard cores it was 2 weeks. But we both logged the same amount of hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enfarious

I suspect the point was, don't lock people out based on the amount of time they spend playing in a day/week/month. In no way does that mean that everyone should be able to get [item] it means that whether I play 2 hours a day or 12 hours a day I should be able to attempt the content to get it, and if I have the skill to win I should not be barred.

The whole hardcore casual debate isn't even about hardcore and casual it's about time spent playing and not, hardcore is a matter of skill and determination not how much can be played in a day.

If I spend 100 hours building a [item] I should have the same progress as you on the [item]. This is assuming that we complete the same amount of content in 100 hours of play. Whether my 100 takes 6 weeks or 6 months, if yours takes 5 days good for you, not really if your playing 20 hours a day 5 days a week somethings not ok. But the point remains, anyone that is willing to put in the time should be afforded equal chance to get [item].

Start looking at hardcore vs. casual as a skill and determination description instead of as time played in a day/week/month at no point should anyone paying for a game be told, oh you don't play enough/month to enter that dungeon and get [item].

---

Did I disagree with you somewhere in my post? :3 In FFXI SquareEnix outsourced the problem by giving HNM-Linkshells only a certain amount of items which were usually given out based on attendance, that way everyone got what he deserved and all were happy. And that is something i'd love to see in 2.0

I think Garuda is the first content in game that genuinely separates the casual players from the hardcore. I hope they introduce more content as much if not more challenging than Garuda (with reliable and rewarding loot system should you actually defeat it)