What Zero Could've Been

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

....there are no words to describe what I think of this statement. A traitor, a murderer, a psychopathic homicidal woman who delights in torture..what the hell IS this?.

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Vel.

Please.

Edit.

Your.

Posts.

So.

The.

Thread.

Doesn't.

Look.

Like.

This.

Also.

Try.

To.

Include.

Who.

You.

Are.

Responding.

To.

As.

It.

Looks.

Like.

You're.

Shouting.

Into.

the.

Void.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

https://i.imgur.com/m0CvV8z.jpg

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Gottem.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

....there are no words to describe what I think of this statement. A traitor, a murderer, a psychopathic homicidal woman who delights in torture..what the hell IS this?.

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Well, personally I'd say it's this:

https://i.imgur.com/m0CvV8z.jpg

Ironic similarity between Venat/Hydaelyn and Yotsuyu/Tsuyu, they both have legions of stans ready and willing to defend their every atrocity by citing what they suffered in their tragic backstories taking place in some distant past with their victims lying solely in the present and having precious little to do with what they suffered.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its stalkerish to reply to somebody on an open and public forum?
Well shoot, I guess everyone is a stalker

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When Puksi labeled me his stalker because I responded to him twice in my entire career on these forums on the Voidsent thread he got 13 updoots. Kindly piss off with your double standards. You didn't care then, why now? Oh right, because I'm an acceptable target who doesn't share your views. Never you mind how Vel responds to nearly every post Aveyond makes and is always hostile.

Proof:

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Originally Posted by Puksi

Do I know you? Because this is the second thread you've come from nowhere and tried to pick a fight with me.

I'm morbidly curious how you think an unborn child wasn't an innocent victim, but you do you, whoever you are. ʅ(ツ)ʃ

Edit: From 2019? That's...not creepy or anything.

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Originally Posted by Puksi

The oddity here is someone has apparently been stalking me for three years.

And since you're trying to take the OP off-topic, I will place lore discussion under a snip.

Why Vauthry? Why not Vauthry? Seriously, looking at your signature alone, this is the character you choose to clutch your pearls over?

He was corrupted before birth and groomed to a very specific task.

https://i.imgur.com/H2XUWrg.png

a.k.a, to be a stopgap to keep the Light from overtaking the First before the Rejoining could happen. There's no reason to believe that Valens van Var--er, Emet-Selch would corrupt this infant, only to then say eh, grow up to do what you want, go fight those Sin Eaters. Instead, the child was brainwashed to believe he was the protagonist of the story, and anyone who came against him were "villains" who must be stopped. A lot of people love waxing on how terrible it was for their WoL to come this close to losing themselves to Lightwarden corruption. How is it any less terrible for a child who had no blessing of Hydaelyn, and was being fed lies to make sure they performed their part in the Ascians' plan?

Cylva confirms the Ascians were not passive players in Eulmore. It was the Ascians' idea to raise The Virtues, and it was the Ascians who left Gaia an orphan alone in the city.

The Virtues, who behaved in a way that completely twisted how they were in life, as Titania went from a beloved ruler to being kept in the cramped old castle. As Tesleen tried to kill us, as we would have killed our friends had we not contained the Light. Light corruption has never left the victim unscathed, but for some reason, you expect it of this character, since birth. Why?

To his dying breath, he didn't understand that he was not the hero he was groomed to believe he was. But he needed to be convinced he was doing good, twisted though it was, when he had the power to not care at all.

Even the Exarch said Vauthry's hope was "to vindicate his existence". Yoshida asked players to consider was Vauthry really a friend of the Sin Eaters, or was he controlled by someone.

Vauthry was a tragic character, and considering they had to convince him he was the good guy, he probably would have been a much better ruler than his father, if the Ascians hadn't corrupted him. But Emet-Selch never gave him a choice to be anything other than what he was created to do.

Now, I'm going to ask you to please stop stalking my posts. I don't even recall engaging you before, and I'm sure you've got better things to do.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

https://i.imgur.com/m0CvV8z.jpg

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So badass. Love Venat.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So badass. Love Venat.

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Yeah, she's great. Really fits the psychopathic murderer villain archetype well. She'd make the Joker from the Dark Knight proud. Maybe they could team up in a crossover game?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So badass. Love Venat.

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Thanks so much for proving my point. If the dreaded and faithful Fora Knights of Lady Hydaelyn didn't possess double standards, they'd yet have naught at all. And so, do they cling evermore onto the fallacious.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

Thanks so much for proving my point. If the dreaded and faithful Fora Knights of Lady Hydaelyn didn't possess double standards, they'd yet have naught at all. And so, do they cling evermore onto the fallacious.

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What was your point?

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

When Puksi labeled me his stalker because I responded to him twice in my entire career on these forums on the Voidsent thread he got 13 updoots. Kindly piss off with your double standards. You didn't care then, why now? Oh right, because I'm an acceptable target who doesn't share your views. Never you mind how Vel responds to nearly every post Aveyond makes and is always hostile.

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.....why...and HOW would I care about a conversation I never saw? (till now)
I never visited or was apart of that thread. Do my "Double Standards" suddenly disappear if I care Now after you told me about it?
And what does that have to do with me? Are you under some weird impression Im one of those upvotes? Man, get outta here with that XD

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You really do come off some sort of weird, obsessed stalker of Aveyond, Vel

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This is a public forum, he made the post and thread publically, regardless of WHO it is, that kind of take is beyond ridiculous.

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Also, you shouldn't double (triple!) post like that, it generally tends to be violations (albeit minor ones) of most forum's ToS.

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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Thanks for the advisory by the way, I will try and not make that kind of una-void-able mistake again.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I like women with snarky/fun personalities. Within reason of course, constant snark gets old, but Y'shtola isn't constantly snarky.
Fordola is also an interesting character once she grows up a bit.

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I'll cosign this, and agree Yshtola hasnt hit THAT mark yet.
And I love Fordola, I hope she takes on a bigger role. Maybe not as a Traveling Companion, but Id love her around more, even as a Temp Party Member and a Trust.

And of course the subject got derailed in the same endless debate.
Not even a single mention of Zero is this page. Does it not get tiring to shout the same things over and over again ?
I already know the answer but still.

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

And of course the subject got derailed in the same endless debate.
Not even a single mention of Zero is this page. Does it not get tiring to shout the same things over and over again ?
I already know the answer but still.

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To be fair the thread was flawed from the start. This is talking about how a character whose arc is only just starting and we barely even know could have been a completely different character instead. What is there to even discuss?
Not to mention that "evil women gets a pass if they're hot" and "Y'shtola isn't attractive enough to shit on Magnai" are takes so bizarre it didn't do the already controversial OP any favor.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

None of this truly matters, since the vast majority of the Scions and main cast are no less boring, tropey and one-note as Zenos. So calling him such isn't saying much, as he's never been set such a high bar to pass over in this grand game of Limbo we call an MMORPG. Turns out, when you've seen enough characters and "beautiful scenery" new ones that resemble what you've seen before fail to register on your radar and stand out. When Zenos asked my character if their journey was worthwhile and we got all those flashbacks of Gridania, Limsa, Ul'dah and Ishgard all I could do was groan. None of those places are beautiful, no they're gray and boring as I've seen their like millions of times before.

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So the comment about Zero and Zenos was addressed, and now it's time to twist it into another thread about Endwalker and the Scions.

Well, if you're gonna drift off topic, have fun, I'm bored with that.

So bascially SE does what you wanted and give us a new character and yet she is not what you have wanted? And this is exactly why I cant agree with all the "just give us a whole new group of people, those would be better" because new people dont mean that you have to like them. They are still written by the same people and they will just the same find players that love them and those that dont.

Edit: I am surprised that you dont like them. Since you dont like the more relaxed scenes in Endwalker...having a stoic woman should have fit way more into your view that everything should be more mature. I guess that only counts for male characters?

Also yikes reading throught this thread really was something. So its fine for a male character to be stoic when you meet them but Zero should not because we have not seen how she got that way? She is living in a world where you bascially have to fight others constantly if you want to eat some aether. Where you can lose yourself if you do that and where you have to either die again and again or be consumed by something else...and you wonder how she could be so stoic? I loved how she just did not help us out of the goodness of her heart but that she wanted something for it.

Really SE cant win with you....

Also as a woman in real life: Double yikes on your take that only hot women are allowed to talk down on men...

Of the newly arrived characters, Zero certainly seems rather bland and boring, slightly like a discount version of old Estinien, early HW, when he too seemed like a typical brooding mercenary archetype.

Especially when comparing Zero to Athena, another new character. The few positive notes on Zero seems to be the theory of her being someone else entirely, which if true, and her current character is simply a disguise, to gain access inside our world, then I'll applaud them for making such a 'clever voidsent', truly. But until that happens, she's simply bland.
The moment we were told the contract between her and Zenos wasn't an even one but a rather boring, "he used me" trope, I just stopped seeing any potential in her character tbh. Had she taken ownership of the union and acts of Zenos, as part of her own admission, it could have opened up for very interesting discussions of morality. But they went with the most lazy writing trope, excuse current/new character from all possible past questionable deeds, thus possibly destroy a potentially interesting point of morality for the character.

Meanwhile Athena had/has a clear goal, her agency of her actions and reasons for them, and she's a lot more interesting than any other female character introduced recently too, without having done much. An actual female character with her own agency/goals, and rather unapologetic about them, even if they are morally questionable or outright bad.
Whether Athena becomes a boring one note as well is left to be seen, and maybe next patch Zero becomes really interesting, and we find out she really dubbed everyone, like Athena one-upped everyone.

If all Zero's character's agency amounts to are, "because it's the right thing to do", or "Its the morally correct choice", then it'll just be another piece of paper for the bin.

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Originally Posted by RukoBoshi

And of course the subject got derailed in the same endless debate.
Not even a single mention of Zero is this page. Does it not get tiring to shout the same things over and over again ?
I already know the answer but still.

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I'm pretty sure that a person could make a thread about how much they don't like the folded towels you can buy with wolf marks and it has just as good of a chance to have it derailed into one of the two topics things get derailed into.

I pretty much learned all I needed to know about the validity of OP's take (and OP themselves) the moment they made those comments about "if you as woman are 3 you shouldn't criticise a hotter guy who is an 8".

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Perhaps they could've spared a scene for an echo vision instead of the one with the two kids going on about friendship. And hopefully more echo visions of her past in the future, to flesh her out even further. Pacing has been slow since 6.1 and quite off in the base 6.0 MSQ, it's time to get this show going.

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Slow pacing? WHAT?
2 of the 4 Fiends are down already lol
Tell me you're memeing.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

This is such a shallow take, I just stepped in it and my feet stayed dry.

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... that was funny... "go back eat his popcorn"

I for one loved what we saw of Zero in 6.1, she is a very interesting character given her backstory and position with our team. Plus, it has only been one patch we have gotten to know them. It is clear she has a lot of room to grow and that is something they are actively exploring. She is exactly what I wanted from the 6.x patches actually, a new and interesting character to explore. Have to also add that I loved her voice actor, she really did a wonderful job getting her cold yet human personality across. I really hope they stay with us into 7.0 and beyond.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Well, if you're gonna drift off topic, have fun, I'm bored with that.

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I sware someone could start a thread about the biology of changing Chocobo feathers and by page ten it would end up being the usual ‘Genocide/Hydaelyn/Endwalker’ debate.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

I for one loved what we saw of Zero in 6.1, she is a very interesting character given her backstory and position with our team. Plus, it has only been one patch we have gotten to know them. It is clear she has a lot of room to grow and that is something they are actively exploring. She is exactly what I wanted from the 6.x patches actually, a new and interesting character to explore. Have to also add that I loved her voice actor, she really did a wonderful job getting her cold yet human personality across. I really hope they stay with us into 7.0 and beyond.

I sware someone could start a thread about the biology of changing Chocobo feathers and by page ten it would end up being the usual ‘Genocide/Hydaelyn/Endwalker’ debate.

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OMG TRIGGER WARNING PLEASE ON MURDER MOMMY MENTION

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

To be fair the thread was flawed from the start. This is talking about how a character whose arc is only just starting and we barely even know could have been a completely different character instead. What is there to even discuss?
Not to mention that "evil women gets a pass if they're hot" and "Y'shtola isn't attractive enough to shit on Magnai" are takes so bizarre it didn't do the already controversial OP any favor.

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Funny how often people forget just how unlike their wild headcanons Magnai actually acted in the narrative. He didn't even hit on Y'shtola, poor man's literally desperate to find his soul mate and acted more like a child with a crush in the "Little Sun" scene than the Nice Guys/Incels that some people seem to see lurking behind every shadow and door. So honestly, yeah I'd argue that while mildly amusing a scene it may have been Magnai wasn't exactly an ideal, dickish target.

Magnai needs some love.

People here talk about how hot a woman must be talk down on a man, but the man in question can accept rejection and does not push himself on others, why talk down on him at all instead of just politely saying no?

Because the whole stick is that Y'shtola is acting like her master Matoya, someone who isn't afraid to talk back and be rough with words.

Add how she was so done with the whole thing with the xaelas' battle requests.


Wait i thought this was about Zero even though her story isn't even done so the thread is pointless

Oh....

Everyone overanalising the whole "Little Sun" thing... and here i am thinking it was just a nice little funny joke devs put in the game for the lols

It's really her calling him childish, nothing more to it.

It feels weird to title a thread "What Zero Could Have Been" when her story isn't even closed to finished -- she's just been introduced, so we don't really know what she really is. Feels like putting the cart before the horse in terms of criticism.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Doubtless the above poster is a fan of men like G'raha Tia or worse yet, the twins. In any case I don't see why FFXIV should cater to such niche tastes for both genders.

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Because your sexist tastes are in the minority. Of my few interactions with you I've tried to be understanding and weigh your points against my personal opinions and preferences, but now you're just being insufferable. Just stop playing this game dude, you're clearly miserable.

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Originally Posted by TsuchinokoPanda

Because your sexist tastes are in the minority. Of my few interactions with you I've tried to be understanding and weigh your points against my personal opinions and preferences, but now you're just being insufferable. Just stop playing this game dude, you're clearly miserable.

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People who like traditional gender presentation are in the minority?

Press X to doubt.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

People who like traditional gender presentation are in the minority?

Press X to doubt.

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Its...kind of hard to say nowadays. Everyone is different, and our overall Culture shifts constantly.
Like Im someone who hates Traditional Gender Representation myself, I think its dated, and in some cases sexist, and harmful.
I think a woman can be tough and dont need to be pretty lil flowers in a dress.
And I think Men can be Gentle and nurturing.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

People who like traditional gender presentation are in the minority?

Press X to doubt.

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They should be.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

They should be.

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Keep your hateful ideologies out of this game.

Thanks.

I hate to break it to you, but the majority of the world would rather play games full of women like this in the spotlight:

https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress...20/11/Rosa.png

Than women like this:

https://i.imgur.com/fz0BNS1.png

The males of this game aren’t all that impressive either, with Midlanders being a bit too wimpy for my liking, male Viera having little to no distinctions between them and their female counterparts, highlanders lacking eyebrows for no valid reason, and Roegadyn/Hrothgar builds not being designed with what people who like playing large races have in mind. Short of the middle ground of Au Ra, there’s nothing in FFXIV that resembles the male characters I play in other rpgs and mmorpgs.

In any case, this game has no content anyway and if the story is going to be carried by Zero, Y’shtola, and god forbid Krile along with the men who don’t have much going for them then around 7.0 I’ll probably not shift my attention away from FFVII: Rebirth and continue replaying FFXVI where I can hang out with Clive, a traditionally attractive male hero, and the temptress Benedickta. A seductive woman who uses her charms the way she does will be a refreshing new sort of character for the series, and I’m greatly looking forward to the interactions she’ll bring both to the table and elsewhere. Also really looking forward to Hugo throwing his weight around, couldn’t have asked for a better human representation of Titan. Certainly better than Ga Bu.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUSbcF6XoAAbGWi.jpg:large

People who are into niche tastes like they are here shouldn’t have the run of the place, especially not when it comes to stuff like how the genders should look and act. Under normal circumstances you’re not going to be able to sell someone a game where women are as plain as Y’shtola while “slaying” the men who interact with them while the protagonist faction men are overly emotional and feminine like G’raha and Alphinaud, with Thancred and Estinien acting as the party’s muscle while being cast aside by the main story, along with both having their visual designs made more boring.

No matter how many times you try and overuse words to paint people as things they aren’t. this is just how the rest of the world outside of FFXIV works. Perhaps if the game hadn’t self-selected for a certain type of player then we would’ve actually held on to the wave that came following the fall of WoW instead of reverting back to Shb levels. As it stands now, a weak cast and no clear direction for 7.0 + hardly anything to do in this game isn’t helping its case. I only hope my passive efforts of making gil with leves eventually pay off when it becomes good again, otherwise my engagement with FFXIV is the bare minimum these days.

Someone: turns post about Zero into another anti-transgender soapbox.

not EVERYTHING has to connect to your fear of Trans people.

I thought she was gonna be a dude cause of the Zeno's avatar she was, other then that she ain't as cool as Minfilia or Nanamo Ul Namo, there my fav females in the game.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

They should be.

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As a gay guy who likes masculine men, that doesn't make much sense to me. Men are inherently masculine by nature - the extent varies, but the men who aren't masculine to some degree are very much a minority. If they became the majority, why should those of us who enjoy the 'default aesthetics' so to speak, miss out?

I think it's important to remember that the majority is under no obligation to revolve around the whims of the minority. I think everybody's entitled to their individual preferences - within reason - but when the pushing goes too far, I don't think it'll be pleasant when the pendulum inevitably swings in the opposite direction as it has many other times throughout human history as it'll likely result in eroding away a lot of the patience and sympathy towards different perspectives and preferences.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its...kind of hard to say nowadays. Everyone is different, and our overall Culture shifts constantly.
Like Im someone who hates Traditional Gender Representation myself, I think its dated, and in some cases sexist, and harmful.
I think a woman can be tough and dont need to be pretty lil flowers in a dress.
And I think Men can be Gentle and nurturing.

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I don’t think liking traditional gender presentation has to do with forcing everyone to fit this mold or thinking that there are things men and women can’t be. It’s about personal enjoyment of an aesthetic in the game and/or irl. I prefer seeing characters who to an extent correspond with their gender role/presentation(without getting into extremes, of course), but I won’t hate a character for straying away from this particular way.

I think most people still enjoy traditional masculinity in men and femininity in women, it doesn’t seem like it will change drastically soon.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

They should be.

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Well, good luck with making that happen. Telling people they “should” be in a minority for their tastes comes off as very rude.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Someone: turns post about Zero into another anti-transgender soapbox.

not EVERYTHING has to connect to your fear of Trans people.

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I’ve read through this thread and didn’t notice anything relating to trans people. Maybe it’s you who wants to make it about them.


P.S. Oh yeah, I just remembered this thread was about Zero. Eh, she’s fine, can’t say anything more than that.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I hate to break it to you, but the majority of the world would rather play games full of women like this in the spotlight:

https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress...20/11/Rosa.png

Than women like this:

https://i.imgur.com/fz0BNS1.png

The males of this game aren’t all that impressive either, with Midlanders being a bit too wimpy for my liking, male Viera having little to no distinctions between them and their female counterparts, highlanders lacking eyebrows for no valid reason, and Roegadyn/Hrothgar builds not being designed with what people who like playing large races have in mind. Short of the middle ground of Au Ra, there’s nothing in FFXIV that resembles the male characters I play in other rpgs and mmorpgs.

In any case, this game has no content anyway and if the story is going to be carried by Zero, Y’shtola, and god forbid Krile along with the men who don’t have much going for them then around 7.0 I’ll probably not shift my attention away from FFVII: Rebirth and continue replaying FFXVI where I can hang out with Clive, a traditionally attractive male hero, and the temptress Benedickta. A seductive woman who uses her charms the way she does will be a refreshing new sort of character for the series, and I’m greatly looking forward to the interactions she’ll bring both to the table and elsewhere. Also really looking forward to Hugo throwing his weight around, couldn’t have asked for a better human representation of Titan. Certainly better than Ga Bu.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUSbcF6XoAAbGWi.jpg:large

People who are into niche tastes like they are here shouldn’t have the run of the place, especially not when it comes to stuff like how the genders should look and act. Under normal circumstances you’re not going to be able to sell someone a game where women are as plain as Y’shtola while “slaying” the men who interact with them while the protagonist faction men are overly emotional and feminine like G’raha and Alphinaud, with Thancred and Estinien acting as the party’s muscle while being cast aside by the main story, along with both having their visual designs made more boring.

.

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I think Y'shtola is pretty, but I don't like her cause she acts like a bitch, I wish Emet Selch would have left her dead back in Rak'tika Greatwoods.

I'd rather him have revived Milfilia, I mean Minfilia.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As a gay guy who likes masculine men, that doesn't make much sense to me. Men are inherently masculine by nature - the extent varies, but the men who aren't masculine to some degree are very much a minority. If they became the majority, why should those of us who enjoy the 'default aesthetics' so to speak, miss out?

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Maybe because the default is what is peddled in our faces every dang day. Most people don't look like that aesthetic and would love it to be not shoved into our faces as much as it is. I remember when the ShB trailer came out and there were threads made by people who got excited to see the few fat Miqo'te. Even some with asking to be able to have it as an option in the character creator. Even in what we do get I'd say that it's above what most people look like. Except for maybe midlanders as the one thing they have going for them is the chance of flawless skin.

Anyway I love what we've gotten so far with Zero and I'm looking forward to how she'll develop. @VictorTheed her look as Zenos's avatar is mostly masculine, but if you looked closely to their face it's of a man covering the eyes a of a lady.

What I'm getting from this is that you want a Bayonetta/Vrtra/Y'Shtola combo glam.

And I'm here for it. I see your not so hidden message.

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Originally Posted by Thenightvortex

I’ve read through this thread and didn’t notice anything relating to trans people. Maybe it’s you who wants to make it about them.

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Gender role discussion is at the very least adjacent
to trans identity, since it's is a subversion of the concept. And since this place had a lot of very heated debate about trans people, there are reason to find the current direction of the thread suspect.

As I said previously anyway, this thread has run out of all of its original material and it's all downhill from now. Especially since we're now in a "here's what the majority REALLY wants" trend that would make even Striker44 blush.