Island Sanctuaries - End Game Only

well this is disappointing.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Maybe they're just trying to keep free trial bots from farming it until the instance servers choke. Of course, that only matters if there's something from the island worth selling. I dunno, pure speculation.

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Looking at the vendor list in Japanese, nothing there seems to be tradable. It's the mandragora mount, nekomimi-san's (Mr. Cat Ears) minion and untradable dyes, one being ruby red.

"make it EW so free players can't have the content" seems like a weak argument. It should be simple enough to lock it behind being a subscriber, as it is forming a party or sending /tells. Or just put it behind owning the EW expansion like SGE or RPR is.

None of the arguments given (from 'but it's thavnair' to 'it's a reward for saving the star') come over as really valid apart from "this is the way it's always been done, each expansion since HW gets one time-wasting activity". And while I don't agree with the rationale behind that for non-combat, end of expansion, timewasting - I can accept it's SE's right to do it.

Still think it's weird though. They've made a point that this content has no impact on the normal game. And as far as time wasting there are criterion and variable dungeons - so two other time-wasting end-of-game contents.

It's a well-established trope in many, MANY stories that after saving the world, the hero retires to live a peaceful agricultural life far away from war and conflict.

Therefore, it makes sense that it would be endgame content considering we just saved the entire universe. Can't get much more accomplished than that.

Not everything needs to be linked to lore. This would have been a really cool feature to simply give to players (after reasonable reqs are met), especially given how poorly they've handled housing in this game.

It shouldn’t be so gated. I like the ideas that it could be made to be a level 61 quest (so you cant do it without buying the game) or have to own sb.

I'm never a fan of gating content behind the MSQ, but this is taking it to the next level. By the time you hit level 50 you are already the savior of Eorzea. Pretty sure if they needed it to be lore-locked, there is a great lore point to say, thanks for saving everyone and defeating the Garleans. That being said, I'd rather it just be a level 15 quest akin to the Gold Saucer as hey, here's a cool side thing for you to do, have fun.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I'm never a fan of gating content behind the MSQ, but this is taking it to the next level. By the time you hit level 50 you are already the savior of Eorzea. Pretty sure if they needed it to be lore-locked, there is a great lore point to say, thanks for saving everyone and defeating the Garleans. That being said, I'd rather it just be a level 15 quest akin to the Gold Saucer as hey, here's a cool side thing for you to do, have fun.

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Why? It's basically the same as any other content. Want to do Firmament? Sorry level 60 combat job and progression past 3.3 MSQ. Heaven on High? That would be level 63-64 and sufficient MSQ progress. Eureka? Bozja? Every single one of those requires player to reach certain point (most commonly the end of expansion where said content is released).

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Why? It's basically the same as any other content. Want to do Firmament? Sorry level 60 combat job and progression past 3.3 MSQ. Heaven on High? That would be level 63-64 and sufficient MSQ progress. Eureka? Bozja? Every single one of those requires player to reach certain point (most commonly the end of expansion where said content is released).

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The difference in my mind is that Island Sanctuaries are about as relevant as the Gold Saucer when it comes to your characters development. It is non-combat side content that has no interaction outside of itself. The Firmament is side content used to level crafters and gatherers, HoH is there for leveling combat classes etc. The content has very different goals and I just don't see why you would restrict it to level 90.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

The difference in my mind is that Island Sanctuaries are about as relevant as the Gold Saucer when it comes to your characters development. It is non-combat side content that has no interaction outside of itself. The Firmament is side content used to level crafters and gatherers, HoH is there for leveling combat classes etc. The content has very different goals and I just don't see why you would restrict it to level 90.

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Everything you mention has its place in the story and we have yet to even see where IS falls into place. Aside from that, there's nothing of actual importance IN Island Sanctuary, so what difference does it make if you have to wait a bit? What's wrong with having something more to look forward to at the end of the whole Hydaelyn / Zodiark saga?

I find the gatekeeping on this rather weird. It's not like you will be able to flood the MB with anything from it, and it's not like your having one stops any other player having one too. They are not in limited supply and there is no ladder of achievement.

So, I want to ask people who say "Nope, nu uh" how it changes their experience or lessens their gameplay?

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Why? It's basically the same as any other content. Want to do Firmament? Sorry level 60 combat job and progression past 3.3 MSQ. Heaven on High? That would be level 63-64 and sufficient MSQ progress. Eureka? Bozja? Every single one of those requires player to reach certain point (most commonly the end of expansion where said content is released).

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Diadem is a huge money earners for people who farm it. Plus of course levelling your crafters trivially can impact the MB and other players. I think that's fair.
Eureka has it's bot ground bunny fates as a huge gil earner. Bozja - I believe - also has things that can be sold. It also needs a certain gearing that you won't have at level 10.

I.S. is selfcontained content with no combat, no group play, and no impact on other players or the MB. It's more akin to the Golden Saucer than anything else in the game.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Everything you mention has its place in the story and we have yet to even see where IS falls into place. Aside from that, there's nothing of actual importance IN Island Sanctuary, so what difference does it make if you have to wait a bit? What's wrong with having something more to look forward to at the end of the whole Hydaelyn / Zodiark saga?

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Why gatekeep content that has no actual importance then? You are already gatekeeping the vast majority of the game through the MSQ, might as well give newer players something that could be fun on the side to do.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Why gatekeep content that has no actual importance then? You are already gatekeeping the vast majority of the game through the MSQ, might as well give newer players something that could be fun on the side to do.

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Why are you getting all worked up over this? It looks like you've already completed the story. What's with the white knight routine?

Newer players have plenty to do. Nobody's signing up for this game to play Island Sanctuary. There are plenty of mobile games to fill that space.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Why are you getting all worked up over this? It looks like you've already completed the story. What's with the white knight routine?

Newer players have plenty to do. Nobody's signing up for this game to play Island Sanctuary. There are plenty of mobile games to fill that space.

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White knighting...? I guess if advocating for a less terrible new player experience is white knighting then sure, that's what I am doing. I don't understand why you are so focused on making it a level 90 only experience and how it would affect you if a newer player had access to them. I care because I want the games new player experience to be the best it can be. Adding Island Sanctuaries to a lower level so new players can have access to a fun feature while they are grinding through the MSQ seems like a good quality of life idea. It is a positive with no negatives that I can see, however gating it through the entirety of the MSQ seems like nothing but a negative to me.

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Originally Posted by WindyGamer

How soon before we see that the ladder is just too high to put all the new content at the top and that it's not a service to new players to dumb down all the rungs along the way?

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Those story skip potions aren't going to sell themselves!

Did you finish the game? No? then carry on and wait till you get your Island one day, it wont go anywhere....

You dont care for story etc and just wanna play Animal crossing or Sims? Go do that, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Newer players have plenty to do. Nobody's signing up for this game to play Island Sanctuary. There are plenty of mobile games to fill that space.

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Yet there are players who get the game solely for the Mahjong Tournament in the Gold Saucer. You can't be certain that there aren't people who would get the game solely for Island Sanctuary - (or at least would if it wasn't locked behind a couple of hundred hours of MSQ).

Why withhold content that a new player would enjoy and that seems to have no real lore attached to the island content itself, only to how it is obtained? Again, SE could have made the lore for the quest that unlocks the island anything they wanted (Adventurers' Guild is bequeathed an island by a mysterious benefactor and our trusty Adventurer self has been asked to be the caretaker, as an example). Why is it important for it to be locked behind level 90 MSQ? No one loses anything if it's available to low level players because it is isolated content. What a player does on their island affects no one else.

I think I know why it's gated behind EW. The Island Sanctuary is likely in Thavnair, which is ruled by a certain individual, somebody who wouldn't just trust anybody, who wouldn't just give away something like that for no reason. You've earned their trust massively by the end of 6.0, so it's likely also a gift for helping keep Thavnair safe. So it'd make no sense for it to be obtained before 6.0's end.

And on a technical side, it's probably also to save server space, as the sanctuary is as big as an EW zones. Less people with it means the server won't struggle as badly, and it'll be easier to adjust for any large increases in players.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Did you finish the game? No? then carry on and wait till you get your Island one day, it wont go anywhere....

You dont care for story etc and just wanna play Animal crossing or Sims? Go do that, thanks.

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MMOs, by design, are filled with all sorts of various content that appeal to a large number of people. We have the story, PvP, hunts, gathering, crafting, RP, hanging with friends, glamour, chocobo racing, high-end fights, gold saucer, TT, gardening, and all sorts of other things that lure people in. Not everyone plays for the story. Not everyone plays for battle-related content. The 'fluff' and lighter activities are just as important as the rest and there is absolutely no reason to lock Island Sanctuary behind a massive MSQ grind.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I think I know why it's gated behind EW. The Island Sanctuary is likely in Thavnair, which is ruled by a certain individual, somebody who wouldn't just trust anybody, who wouldn't just give away something like that for no reason. You've earned their trust massively by the end of 6.0, so it's likely also a gift for helping keep Thavnair safe. So it'd make no sense for it to be obtained before 6.0's end.

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That may be the case, but they could have also just added it as a new feature with reasonable requirements (EW purchase and....level 60? ARR completed?). The island activities seem like they're going to be self-contained and won't impact the outside markets in any way, so why gate it so heavily? As it is, the majority of players are already locked out of housing (which only requires level 50 + a specific GC rank). Offering up Island Sanctuary could have been a nice way of saying "Hey, we're sorry we've screwed up housing so much...but here's a gigantic island to play with!". It's obviously not the same thing, but it would be content that players can throw themselves into for a decent amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

That may be the case, but they could have also just added it as a new feature with reasonable requirements (EW purchase and....level 60? ARR completed?). The island activities seem like they're going to be self-contained and won't impact the outside markets in any way, so why gate it so heavily? As it is, the majority of players are already locked out of housing (which only requires level 50 + a specific GC rank). Offering up Island Sanctuary could have been a nice way of saying "Hey, we're sorry we've screwed up housing so much...but here's a gigantic island to play with!". It's obviously not the same thing, but it would be content that players can throw themselves into for a decent amount of time.

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If they're trying to save server space and avoid causing massive problems, gating behind MSQ is a good way to avoid a Raubahn EX or Pipin Savage moment again. As of the current census, there are 1,054,495 endgame characters, and doesn't include how many are alts. There are a total of 27,286,890 characters across all worlds, and doesn't include how many are alts or F2P. It's going to be much easier on them to make this so you have to be at the current endgame than allow people prior to that to have one, and will make it easier on the servers. From that perspective, this is a pretty good idea on their part to alleviate problems in advance on server space that may arise. Unless of course, you WANT another Raubahn EX or Pipin Savage, when people couldn't do instances for almost a full week...

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Why gatekeep content that has no actual importance then? You are already gatekeeping the vast majority of the game through the MSQ, might as well give newer players something that could be fun on the side to do.

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Gatekeeping content through the MSQ is the main process of an RPG. It's meant to be a world that evolves as you go along and reacts to your actions\the actions of others:
- Pokémon only lets you progress when you beat gyms and have access to moves that unlock routes.
- SMT games only let you explore new areas if you've gone through the main story (read: P3 tower levels, P1 Snow Queen, SMT3 Amala Labyrinth, even basic functions like fusing demons)
- KH locks minigames, items and equipment behind story progression.
- Final Fantasy itself has entire areas that only unlock after you've beaten a certain dungeon or watch a specific cutscene.

We're not playing an open world\sandbox game. We're playing a progression story, and content is gradually unlocked through it. Not even Skyrim does that. It's not gatekeeping in a negative sense. It's not "You cannot join this unless you're this sort of person".
The stuff new players unlock on the side as they progress the story are meant to be what they do on the side. It's called "side-content" for a reason.

The game doesn't have FOMO other than events, and events are (for the most part) available at level 15, provided you have access to every ARR city hub.
Sidequests and alternative content like PvP is stuff they can go ahead and unlock. But the main point of the game is its MSQ. Gatekeeping said content is part of the nature of the genre itself, it's not an inherent design flaw by Square directly to keep "the unworthy" off of their content.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

If they're trying to save server space and avoid causing massive problems, gating behind MSQ is a good way to avoid a Raubahn EX or Pipin Savage moment again. As of the current census, there are 1,054,495 endgame characters, and doesn't include how many are alts. There are a total of 27,286,890 characters across all worlds, and doesn't include how many are alts or F2P. It's going to be much easier on them to make this so you have to be at the current endgame than allow people prior to that to have one, and will make it easier on the servers. From that perspective, this is a pretty good idea on their part to alleviate problems in advance on server space that may arise.

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Saw the edit after I posted (my post took too long to type..lol). :X

I suppose that could be a consideration, but again, they could have picked other requirements to help alleviate server stress. I think the purchase of EW should be required as that alone would cut out all the free-trial players (sorry, guys!), a great majority of alts, and others who aren't quite sold on the game yet. On top of that, they could require ARR or even HW completion and maybe some GC ranks for fun. Maybe have it cost a few million gil (like a small house). I imagine that would be a less-favorable option, but that would deter and/or delay people from purchasing right away. I feel there were a lot of options left on the table and they instead went for the most punishing route. :X

Is this a bait thread?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Saw the edit after I posted (my post took too long to type..lol). :X

I suppose that could be a consideration, but again, they could have picked other requirements to help alleviate server stress. I think the purchase of EW should be required as that alone would cut out all the free-trial players (sorry, guys!), a great majority of alts, and others who aren't quite sold on the game yet. On top of that, they could require ARR or even HW completion and maybe some GC ranks for fun. Maybe have it cost a few million gil (like a small house). I imagine that would be a less-favorable option, but that would deter and/or delay people from purchasing right away. I feel there were a lot of options left on the table and they instead went for the most punishing route. :X

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There's also another reason I just thought of. It's something to keep endgame players going during content droughts. We have new raids, the new 4 man dungeons, the new story, the new trial and EX, but we'll eventually have run out of things to do. Island Sanctuary then becomes something to fall back on and waste time doing. Depending on how well they set it up, it may be something that can keep people occupied for a LONG time.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

I find the gatekeeping on this rather weird.

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Appeals to lore are particularly bizarre, SE can write whatever it wants up to and including nothing at all.
I understand if they want the feature for paying customers only, but other justifications for such high barrier of entry ring hollow.

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Originally Posted by Toukichiful

Is this a bait thread?

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That doesnt really matter as that mindset is a thing.

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Originally Posted by Cach

Appeals to lore are particularly bizarre, SE can write whatever it wants up to and including nothing at all.
I understand if they want the feature for paying customers only, but other justifications for such high barrier of entry ring hollow.

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You know literally every content they add has lore, right? They never just add anything without giving lore for it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Yet there are players who get the game solely for the Mahjong Tournament in the Gold Saucer. You can't be certain that there aren't people who would get the game solely for Island Sanctuary - (or at least would if it wasn't locked behind a couple of hundred hours of MSQ).

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To be fair, the mahjong angle is largely due to the fact that for years, there were literally no online mahjong games that were not terrible... save for the mahjong in FFXIV, for whatever reason. It wasn't "I want to play FFXIV for mahjong" but rather "I want to play mahjong, and literally all the other implementations are terrible, so I guess we're all going to play FFXIV just to use the only good online mahjong implementation out there."

I would argue that's far less likely with Island Sanctuary; I won't say it's impossible someone would take that same approach, but anyone who wants to play a "rebuild a pastoral area" game has a plethora of fairly solid options. Many of which have considerably more features and depth than Island Sanctuary is likely to have, because that is the entire focus of the game, rather than "hey, a neat side activity". It's not like "well, Animal Crossing is buggy, Harvest Moon has no features, the only one out there that actually works is Island Sanctuary."

Which, weirdly, was the case with Doman Mahjong. As to why SQEX was the only company that could make a non-horrible online mahjong system for a surprisingly long time...?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

You know literally every content they add has lore, right? They never just add anything without giving lore for it.

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Yeah, like male Viera being "rare" until they made the model for players, and suddenly Sharlayan of all places is filled with them. The "lore" more often than not is just an excuse to do things with the least effort, and since it's all 100% mutable on the writers whim, it means less than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

Yeah, like male Viera being "rare" until they made the model for players, and suddenly Sharlayan of all places is filled with them. The "lore" more often than not is just an excuse to do things with the least effort, and since it's all 100% mutable on the writers whim, it means less than nothing.

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*sighs* Do I have to go over this again, for the Xth thread? Lore wise, male Viera are incredibly rare, and there are only 4 male Viera NPCs in the game you meet. The game world acts as though all the other players do not exist other than you. So in the game world, male Viera are still incredibly rare. In your world, you and the Scions have only seen in the story and sidequests at max 4 male Viera, meaning they're rare. If another player is a male Viera in their world, that means there are only 5 male Viera the Scions ever meet at most. This does not break lore.

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Originally Posted by WindyGamer

So if you want a Garden Simulator[...]

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Stardew Valley has been out since 2016

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

Yeah, like male Viera being "rare" until they made the model for players, and suddenly Sharlayan of all places is filled with them. The "lore" more often than not is just an excuse to do things with the least effort, and since it's all 100% mutable on the writers whim, it means less than nothing.

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You know there's only one Warrior of Light on Eitherys, right? Everyone else is just an adventurer to the respective player. No one else really exists beyond those encounters. They go over this point regularly throughout the story.

Why end-game only?
1) Edition and sub-time purchase, cuz they are not going to let you have everything with a sub-lv50 character. They don't want more mahjong players who access contents for free the moment they get to Gold Saucer and just stay in that amusement park for the rest of their character's life. Even Gold Saucer now have rewards that require you to play contents beyond free-trial to access.


2) Drive players' attachment to the game. You gotta play through all major expansion to get there, so you will likely have more things to do more than just Harvest Moon. Dailies, weelies... same formula of a mobile game that make you keep return to the game, thus sub-paying and potential cash-shop purchase, thus making you continue to play the game even if you are bored of your mind out. The same happens even if you just play Harvest Moon content, cuz you still have to pay sub. Mind you that FF14 business model is still a lot lenient compared to any other cash-grab MMO game, but it still manages to cause unhealthy attachment.


3) Push the sales of boosters for impatient players. Of course it sounds counter-productive, but some players prefer their WoL be the Harverst Moon character instead of just playing real Harvest moon characters



In short, it is about money and players' retention. Like any other MMO.

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Originally Posted by Misplaced_Marbles

Yeah, like male Viera being "rare" until they made the model for players, and suddenly Sharlayan of all places is filled with them. The "lore" more often than not is just an excuse to do things with the least effort, and since it's all 100% mutable on the writers whim, it means less than nothing.

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lemme introduce a new term to your vocabulary.
Story and gameplay segregation

So... basically a push for people to buy MSQ skips to reach EW faster?!?

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

Why end-game only?
1) Edition and sub-time purchase, cuz they are not going to let you have everything with a sub-lv50 character. They don't want more mahjong players who access contents for free the moment they get to Gold Saucer and just stay in that amusement park for the rest of their character's life. Even Gold Saucer now have rewards that require you to play contents beyond free-trial to access.


2) Drive players' attachment to the game. You gotta play through all major expansion to get there, so you will likely have more things to do more than just Harvest Moon. Dailies, weelies... same formula of a mobile game that make you keep return to the game, thus sub-paying and potential cash-shop purchase, thus making you continue to play the game even if you are bored of your mind out. The same happens even if you just play Harvest Moon content, cuz you still have to pay sub. Mind you that FF14 business model is still a lot lenient compared to any other cash-grab MMO game, but it still manages to cause unhealthy attachment.


3) Push the sales of boosters for impatient players. Of course it sounds counter-productive, but some players prefer their WoL be the Harverst Moon character instead of just playing real Harvest moon characters



In short, it is about money and players' retention. Like any other MMO.

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1) You can make content accessible at level 1 and still require game/expansion purchase plus subscription for that access.

2) Pushing desirable content behind large barriers doesn't tend to drive attachment. It tends to drive dissatisfaction. The game already drives attachment by offering a variety of content to appeal to different tastes. It may matter to some players what another player's character level is. All that matters to SE is whether the player is willing to keep their sub active. Easier to do that by giving the player relatively easy access to content. If you're worried about time retention, you gate how quickly the rewards from content can be received, not how quickly the player can start the content.

3) I doubt gating Island Sanctuary behind level 90 is going to lead to an increase in the sale of boost potions. The type of players who buy boost potions probably won't even be thinking about it.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You know there's only one Warrior of Light on Eitherys, right? Everyone else is just an adventurer to the respective player. No one else really exists beyond those encounters. They go over this point regularly throughout the story.

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Alright, but the issue still remains. Sharlayan really just feels like it used a cop-out on half the races there for the sake of diversity. "Let's include a member of every single race to show how your mortal realm is too busy fighting wars while we coexist here". They ignore established strict cultural and ethnic aspects for the sake of gratuitous representation. Because sure, I can get behind how Sharlayan is made up of a people from ARR races because historically it was Eorzeans who made the nation. Hrothgar I can get behind too because they probably travelled around before they got Garlemald'ed. Only Eorzeans react poorly, and they're not the only race to suffer from it, Au Ra do too. But Viera? If wandering females are already a big deal, even before Garlemald, finding males would be an even bigger surprise, yet we just happen to find a bunch there.

It's Planet of Hats. That's all it is.

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Originally Posted by ADarklore

So... basically a push for people to buy MSQ skips to reach EW faster?!?

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I bet the number of people who would just buy this game for Island Sanctuary is very very small :p Also there is million things free trial cannot do so why suddenly everyone is going crazy about the new feature in the newest expansion?

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Originally Posted by ADarklore

So... basically a push for people to buy MSQ skips to reach EW faster?!?

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They don't need Island Sanctuary for that. Player desire for instant gratification takes care of those sales.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

I bet the number of people who would just buy this game for Island Sanctuary is very very small :p Also there is million things free trial cannot do so why suddenly everyone is going crazy about the new feature in the newest expansion?

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Who the hell is asking for Island Sanctuary to be accessible to free trials? I'll tell you: NO ONE. Samurai only requirements are having a lv50 class and having done the lv10 base class quest. Now answer me this: do free trial players have access to samurai? Do free free trial players have access to gunbreaker?

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Originally Posted by Anura

Who the hell is asking for Island Sanctuary to be accessible to free trials? I'll tell you: NO ONE.

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Maybe go back and read the full thread before answering, because people have been asking for it.