What is wrong with cone aoe?

They need to bring the cone back to Overpower.

Compromise:
Make Overpower a cone again-
-but also make Mythril Tempest a cone as well.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

People are saying Warriors cone > circle combo was annoying but lol i've never seen any Warriors go in and out of the group to hit them xD If you positioned the mobs well you never needed to do that...

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Honestly, avoiding mob AoE's generally solved any positioning requirements for Overpower's Cone AoE. Step out of marker. All mobs are now in cone area.

Seems to me people complained about cone aoe's being inferior for years and years and years as though standing at one side of a mass of enemies and aiming inwards was somehow difficult.

Devs unfortunately listen and see the sustained complaint over such a long period and wonder "why would they want the worse aoe pattern that has half the range in exchange for hitting behind?" but eventually cave in anyways and now the complaining has turned the other way because complaining is apparently the only thing people on forums are capable of

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Seems to me people complained about cone aoe's being inferior for years and years and years as though standing at one side of a mass of enemies and aiming inwards was somehow difficult.

Devs unfortunately listen and see the sustained complaint over such a long period and wonder "why would they want the worse aoe pattern that has half the range in exchange for hitting behind?" but eventually cave in anyways and now the complaining has turned the other way because complaining is apparently the only thing people on forums are capable of

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Same thing happened with AST cards and now they're all just Damage+ because people griped about only Balance being worthwhile. Now they complain about not having Card variety.
Or how when cross-Job abilities were a thing, complaining about some abilities being 'mandatory' for all classes. Enter: Role abilities. Now they complain about losing cross-job abilities.

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Originally Posted by Simple_Barghest

Same thing happened with AST cards and now they're all just Damage+ because people griped about only Balance being worthwhile. Now they complain about not having Card variety.
Or how when cross-Job abilities were a thing, complaining about some abilities being 'mandatory' for all classes. Enter: Role abilities. Now they complain about losing cross-job abilities.

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IMO, handling legitimate complaints like something actually being broken or unbalanced is good. However a large number of changes made due to complaints IMO should have just been either ignored or handled with the response or "Learn to play the game"

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

People are saying Warriors cone > circle combo was annoying but lol i've never seen any Warriors go in and out of the group to hit them xD If you positioned the mobs well you never needed to do that...

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The circle aoe was a huge nerf to the overpower since overpower had greater range. War was my main tank for all of Shadowbringers and never once was a cone a problem, so having them change it to a circle arbitrarily was out of left field. It doesn't matter what people say: if A is equivalent to B in terms of hitting targets, than there is no reason to change A to B.

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Originally Posted by Nihility

Seems to me people complained about cone aoe's being inferior for years and years and years as though standing at one side of a mass of enemies and aiming inwards was somehow difficult.

Devs unfortunately listen and see the sustained complaint over such a long period and wonder "why would they want the worse aoe pattern that has half the range in exchange for hitting behind?" but eventually cave in anyways and now the complaining has turned the other way because complaining is apparently the only thing people on forums are capable of

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You should see the samurai forums on Kaiten. People wanted fewer buttons due to controller issues and the devs looked for an easy skill to pluck off for samurai, so they picked Kaiten. Now samurai are complaining and want it back. I personally do not miss Kaiten at all.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

You should see the samurai forums on Kaiten. People wanted fewer buttons due to controller issues and the devs looked for an easy skill to pluck off for samurai, so they picked Kaiten. Now samurai are complaining and want it back. I personally do not miss Kaiten at all.

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No. None asked for this. There also were better ways to remove 1 button or more from SAM's action bars.

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Originally Posted by Hezhi

No. None asked for this. There also were better ways to remove 1 button or more from SAM's action bars.

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Well what would you have picked? Personally Shoha should have taken the axe before Kaiten, but instead they wanted more button bloat with adding shoha II.

The only melee I've liked at all right now has been reaper and they strait up stated that it got the lionshare of development time out of all the changes, so that kind of makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Well what would you have picked? Personally Shoha should have taken the axe before Kaiten, but instead they wanted more button bloat with adding shoha II.

The only melee I've liked at all right now has been reaper and they strait up stated that it got the lionshare of development time out of all the changes, so that kind of makes sense.

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Not a SAM main myself.

Although if I were to look at their arsenals & their rotations, I'd think they would merge Shoha+Shoha II and/or Guren+Senei into single button. Since you can only use one of them at a time, they could've combined it and add damage fall off for balancing purpose.

But that's assuming their sole reason is to reduce button bloat. Apparently they also wanted to reduce performance gap, henceforth Kaiten becomes the more appealing option.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Not a SAM main myself.

Although if I were to look at their arsenals & their rotations, I'd think they would merge Shoha+Shoha II and/or Guren+Senei into single button. Since you can only use one of them at a time, they could've combined it and add damage fall off for balancing purpose.

But that's assuming their sole reason is to reduce button bloat. Apparently they also wanted to reduce performance gap, henceforth Kaiten becomes the more appealing option.

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It does feel like they want to cut down the skill ceiling on jobs. I just think that the design of the job system in FFXIV was never modularly built to begin with and that means adjusting what that floor and ceiling should be is rather painful. Basically, the system is designed to add skills individually as someone levels up rather than a cohesive block, so people don't get a cohesive but simple set of abilities at each milestone with time to practice. Recently went back to help people through PoTD floors 1-50 and felt the pains of having to get partially unlocked skill chains going all the way up to floor 40.

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Originally Posted by hagare

assuming there are no mobs behind you. Which usually happens when you're still setting up.

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No, no it really doesn't.

You start with all mobs to one side of you. When you run through them, since you lead mobs to the final gather, they remain to one side of you. The only way for them to end up truly behind you is to intentionally run into the center of the pack.

Yes, they can crowd toward your flanks, but your cone need only intersect any part of their hit-rings, which are far larger than the mob's models themselves. So long as you don't aim the cone off to the side, you'd still hit all of them while staying in place, just as you would with a circle.

The only difference is that the cone offers 60% more reach, which is pretty damn handy during the gather itself.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

No, no it really doesn't.

You start with all mobs to one side of you. When you run through them, since you lead mobs to the final gather, they remain to one side of you. The only way for them to end up truly behind you is to intentionally run into the center of the pack.

Yes, they can crowd toward your flanks, but your cone need only intersect any part of their hit-rings, which are far larger than the mob's models themselves. So long as you don't aim the cone off to the side, you'd still hit all of them while staying in place, just as you would with a circle.

The only difference is that the cone offers 60% more reach, which is pretty damn handy during the gather itself.

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This is why I regarded the overpower change as a nerf and not really just a different way of doing things. I so dislike that Xeno video...

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Well what would you have picked? Personally Shoha should have taken the axe before Kaiten, but instead they wanted more button bloat with adding shoha II.

The only melee I've liked at all right now has been reaper and they strait up stated that it got the lionshare of development time out of all the changes, so that kind of makes sense.

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Yep, that would have made more sense. And/or merging Ikishoten with Ougi Namikiri. And/or Guren + Senei.
They already made the job much easier to get into with the Meikyo Shishui, Fuka/Fugetsu endwalker changes.
And by the way I wasn't pulling facts out of my arse when I said none was asking for this: according to a CN survey, SAM players were extremely satisfied with 6.0 SAM.

https://bbs.nga.cn/read.php?tid=31458460&rand=154
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...pen/?context=3
>"Out of 143 Samurai mains, 81% rated it 10/10 in enjoyability, and none rated it lower than 7."

I am very annoyed at these changes, and so is every SAM main I know.