Square Enix Does not care about Stalking/Harassment In Game

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Originally Posted by hagare

??

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Dude, it's a VIDEO GAME. Relax.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Dude, it's a VIDEO GAME. Relax.

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no dont you understand? Trespassing peoples houses in ff14 is as bad as committing a crime in real life. you need to call 911 asap. /s

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Originally Posted by hagare

it's kind of amazing how people are defending stalking and harassing because they didn't lock the door.
That is as dumb as people saying. "You can't scan the item, it must be free"

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Your opinion don't matter.
If you want to get rid of this individual from your house, do what GM says.
Lock the door, give him proper warning, blacklist him, then report to GM.
Once these are done, you empower GM to take required action.

This is much better than reality.
If you think Stalking is easy to prosecute, you are naïve and need to do some more reading on articles relate to Stalking.
If OP decides want to continue RP/ERP venues, then this is something he need to learn to deal with by just blacklisting him.
There is no trespassing in FF14, you can choose you don't want to get disturb by lock the door; otherwise, stop whining on the forum

It's funny to me how Square keeps saying harassment is very much a big no no, yet it was the community that had to create void list just so that you no longer would have to see people you want to avoid.
And blacklisted ppl not being able to enter the houses of the owners who blacklisted them is such a basic and given functionality so that the very fact it has yet to be added just casts hard doubt over the veracity of their claims.
Don't just write a ToS about it, actually walk the talk.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

This is much better than reality.
If you think Stalking is easy to prosecute, you are naïve and need to do some more reading on articles relate to Stalking.

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Actually, it's not that difficult. Part of the reason why I am so troubled by SE's lack of action in protecting their players when their players are being stalked in their games is because I was a stalking victim (my stalker is presumed dead) irl. At the time of my case, there were no stalking laws. All I was getting was consistent, repeating phone calls all day at my residence. It was as simple as reporting it to the police, having a trap set up on my phone, and logging the offending calls. Once they identified the identity of the stalker, they put out a warrant for his arrest & to search his home. They ended up having to call in homicide because they found a shrine in his home to me. I was placed under police protection until he was arrested because homicide's interpretation of the shrine was I was going to die. I didn't even have to show up in court given the circumstances. The judge called me at home to tell me his decisions including details like the charges, jail time, hours of community service (to make up for the fact that there was no stalking law yet), mandatory psychiatric counseling twice a week for the offender, as well as the details of the restraining order that was in place. The state also provided the means in which to assure that it would be extremely hard to find me again as well as special permissions for information on my driver's license as well as the ability to find out their standing up until the day he was presumed dead. That's what happened with my case and look at the level of information that I was provided.

Many municipalities have cyber divisions that would also include online stalking & harassment. Sometimes these things do actually spill over into IRL. Stalking can be a bit like an iceberg--sure you're getting persistent annoying phone calls but who knows, that persistent weirdo might have a murder shrine at their house.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Dude, it's a VIDEO GAME. Relax.

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Dude. Social interactions are real. You're not dealing with NPCs here.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Your opinion don't matter.
If you want to get rid of this individual from your house, do what GM says.
Lock the door, give him proper warning, blacklist him, then report to GM.
Once these are done, you empower GM to take required action.

This is much better than reality.
If you think Stalking is easy to prosecute, you are naïve and need to do some more reading on articles relate to Stalking.
If OP decides want to continue RP/ERP venues, then this is something he need to learn to deal with by just blacklisting him.
There is no trespassing in FF14, you can choose you don't want to get disturb by lock the door; otherwise, stop whining on the forum

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Thank you on your insight of stalking 101.
PS: Who the fuck said dealing with stalking is easy in real life?

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Originally Posted by hagare

Thinks that anonymous social interactions in an online video game carry the same weight as those in real life

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https://i.imgur.com/iB5xwIJ.gif

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Originally Posted by Bunnykin_M

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I think what that person means to say is that stalking in-game is difficult to prosecute. Players in the game are usually allowed to be wherever they want, and if that happens to be right near you then that's allowed too, which is why it would be difficult for SE to penalize them for stalking. If you feel that anyone is following you in game, you can go somewhere where they can't follow you or you can just log off. Also, they can't interact with you physically because it's not real life. That's why he says that "this is much better than reality."

But in your case, if the stalker knows you IRL and is stalking you IRL too then by all means contact the authorities.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

https://i.imgur.com/iB5xwIJ.gif

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https://media1.giphy.com/media/cGN61...giphy.gif&ct=g

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Originally Posted by hagare

irrelevant. They were asked to leave private property and they didn't.

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This is not IRL, even if you ask someone to leave if their house door is open that means it is open to the public. The OP has two choices, lock the door and blacklist, or blacklist and ignore.

All the OP has done is make excuses as to why they do not wish to use the tools SE has provided, yet in the same breath complain SE has not done anything nor does not care. SE has given us tool. OP needs to take personal responsibility for their actions and their own “safety” and not solely expect those with authority to help.

Is it unfortunate that as the victim they have to be the one to make concessions and alter their play style / enjoyment of the game because of the one person? Yes, but that is the nature of online interactions. You cannot control others, only thing you can do is your control your own actions and how they effect you.

Yes a person is behind the screen, but this is far from IRL and even so one of the questions the police would ask if someone walked into their house and did not want to leave and the door was unlocked. Why was your door unlocked in the first place. The ignoring part is moot in the IRL context but even irl we have a duty to do the bare min to protect ourselves.

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Originally Posted by hagare

it's kind of amazing how people are defending stalking and harassing because they didn't lock the door.
That is as dumb as people saying. "You can't scan the item, it must be free"

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Who is defending stalking? The solution from the GMs was exactly this "lock your doors". The OP chose to ignore it. The GMs can't do anything to a player for entering an open house, regardless of whether they annoy you personally or not.

What is the problem with stalker ignoring?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Who is defending stalking? The solution from the GMs was exactly this "lock your doors". The OP chose to ignore it. The GMs can't do anything to a player for entering an open house, regardless of whether they annoy you personally or not.

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Indeed. They should lock the house down until the situation resolves itself once the offending trouble maker gets bored as they cant access the property any longer . Refusing to do so because of an inconvenience for friends to visit is nonsensical whilst they have this issue going on.


Would friends even enjoy visiting when the troublemaker is doing what they are doing? It would annoy the hell out of me if some rando was spamming my screen with their nonsense because I am now in their vicinity in a friends FC lodgings and the nuisance player they seem reluctant to deal with.

Kupo, sometimes you got to put the big pants on deal with it yourself until/if help arrives. It just be like that in life sometimes kupo <3

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Originally Posted by Doc_Seraph

Kupo, sometimes you got to put the big pants on deal with it yourself until/if help arrives. It just be like that in life sometimes kupo <3

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I hate to say it but the Moogle speaks the truth...

Doesn't mean I won't shave you bald and cut your pom off if we ever met.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

I hate to say it but the Moogle speaks the truth...

Doesn't mean I won't shave you bald and cut your pom off if we ever met.

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Kupo <3 exciting hehe tell me more kupo! hehe jk

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Originally Posted by Doc_Seraph

Kupo <3 exciting hehe tell me more kupo! hehe jk

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. . .

Also a Masochist too eh? We will get along fine.

Imagine being this much a of loser, touching green is free holy fuck. Dude is like proud of being a scumbag, that's wild.

Shame on SE for letting this neckbeard harassing people further.

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Originally Posted by Essina

Imagine being this much a of loser, touching green is free holy fuck. Dude is like proud of being a scumbag, that's wild.

Shame on SE for letting this neckbeard harassing people further.

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The thing is the GM staff has told them what they could do that would prevent further actions from happening. The OP simply refuses to do so, what more do you expect or want SE to do?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

The thing is the GM staff has told them what they could do that would prevent further actions from happening. The OP simply refuses to do so, what more do you expect or want SE to do?

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Are you referring to ignoring them or locking the door? If so what's to stop this person from harassing them elsewhere?

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Originally Posted by Essina

Imagine being this much a of loser, touching green is free holy fuck. Dude is like proud of being a scumbag, that's wild.

Shame on SE for letting this neckbeard harassing people further.

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Oh stop it.
GM told you what to do, but OP refuses to follow because he wants his little RP venues.
This is the same attitude where authority told you to wear mask but you choose not to follow because a believe and end up in a body bag.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Oh stop it.
GM told you what to do, but OP refuses to follow because he wants his little RP venues.
This is the same attitude where authority told you to wear mask but you choose not to follow because a believe and end up in a body bag.

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Told me? I'm not op lol.

That comparison was absolutely stupid, Jesus Christ. Did you compare me to anti-masker over this? Lmao pathetic.

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Originally Posted by Essina

Are you referring to ignoring them or locking the door? If so what's to stop this person from harassing them elsewhere?

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What says the activity would continue if they followed the GM's instructions?

If it did continue, it might be done in a way that clearly breaks ToS and gives the GMs reason to take action against the player.

Right now it's just someone being annoying based on what they've been willing to share, not actual harassment and stalking. Following the GM's instructions would take care of it. They won't do it. They're effectively saying "we want this person to keep annoying us so we can play the victim card for attention".

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Originally Posted by Essina

Are you referring to ignoring them or locking the door? If so what's to stop this person from harassing them elsewhere?

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At that point it from the GM's it perspective maybe they will be more inclined to take a more active role after the OP has exhausted all the in game options provided.

Though personally, I not sure how they would be able to continue to harass them in any lasting way if they keep their FC locked and have the person on black list. With the FC locked they will always have a safe space away from the person.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

The thing is the GM staff has told them what they could do that would prevent further actions from happening. The OP simply refuses to do so, what more do you expect or want SE to do?

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I guess expecting common decency from karens are too much I guess.
People say FF14 is nice only because it's authoritarian. But people keep making excuses for people who harass other people.
*shrug*

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Oh stop it.
GM told you what to do, but OP refuses to follow because he wants his little RP venues.
This is the same attitude where authority told you to wear mask but you choose not to follow because a believe and end up in a body bag.

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and this ladies and gentlemen, is victim blaming.
And that comparison was stupid as eugh.
Though I do agree that the stalker is pretty much a virus

Just goes to show another thing super screwed up in housing is the inability to blacklist people from entering your house and the inability to kick them from your house instance.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Oh stop it.
GM told you what to do, but OP refuses to follow because he wants his little RP venues.
This is the same attitude where authority told you to wear mask but you choose not to follow because a believe and end up in a body bag.

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...not wearing a mask is endangering yourself and others from a disease that either you get mild symptoms, get lesions on your organs or just outright die due to complications.

A GM is telling you to just act passively toward a person actively bothering you. By ignoring their presence and rendering their texts invisible to yourself, while the person can still enter your space and shout whatever they darn feel like and have jack all for consequence.

They are not the same.

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Originally Posted by hagare

I guess expecting common decency from karens are too much I guess.
People say FF14 is nice only because it's authoritarian. But people keep making excuses for people who harass other people.
*shrug*



and this ladies and gentlemen, is victim blaming.
And that comparison was stupid as eugh.
Though I do agree that the stalker is pretty much a virus

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What else do you expect the GM’s to do? The OP has shown an unwillingness to protect themselves, should SE just come in and save those that feel they are being harassed but refuse to take the steps provided by SE to mitigate said harassment?

Maybe I am a Karen or was just raised differently but I was brought up not to rely on outside help. I was taught that I have a duty to protect myself and my family within the law using the tools available to use as citizens. Either way could you please tell what else do you want SE to do? Perma ban the player? Should we perma ban all players that another feels is harassing them?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

What else do you expect the GM’s to do? The OP has shown an unwillingness to protect themselves, should SE just come in and save those that feel they are being harassed but refuse to take the steps provided by SE to mitigate said harassment?

Maybe I am a Karen or was just raised differently but I was brought up not to rely on outside help. I was taught that I have a duty to protect myself and my family within the law using the tools available to use as citizens. Either way could you please tell what else do you want SE to do? Perma ban the player? Should we perma ban all players that another feels is harassing them?

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So their only options are to either lock down their house from everyone or allow any and everyone in? Sounds right to me! :^)

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

So their only options are to either lock down their house from everyone or allow any and everyone in? Sounds right to me! :^)

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You could always just sell it, I'm sure someone else would love it.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

You could always just sell it, I'm sure someone else would love it.

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It was making fun of dishonest solutions. It's like your boss telling you to do something that you don't agree with or it would be a shame if you couldn't afford your livelihood for you and your family. This situation is nowhere near that dire but it still follows the same logic. Though SE telling the playerbase to deal w/ it over fixing existing issues is nothing new, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

So their only options are to either lock down their house from everyone or allow any and everyone in? Sounds right to me! :^)

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Why are so many people thinking to lock down the house is meant as a permanent option?



Locking it down because of their situation until the offender can no longer get in to cause trouble should be temporary . Why are so many thinking its meant as a perma solution?


How is this evading people?


This will never get resolved if the offender can go into their FC house freely . Once the offender has gotten bored because they cant get in they could inform the GM , and they should , that the FC home is locked down . Explain to the GM how they are concerned it will effect visitors and say that they hope the GMS can reloves this soon so they can go back to being a community again , from there its on the GMS


If they keep the house locked after a GM made that suggestion then the GM can monitor the offender to see if they are attempting harassment outside , or if they have started to go elsewhere to get their fix of abusing people , and a GM will swoop on them. As far as a GM is concerned thei ticket is on hold until the action of locking the house down is done , as the OP hasn't and seems to refuse it being unable to see how this is only temporary until the issue is sorted is flabbergasting.

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Originally Posted by hagare

I guess expecting common decency from karens are too much I guess.
People say FF14 is nice only because it's authoritarian. But people keep making excuses for people who harass other people.
*shrug*



and this ladies and gentlemen, is victim blaming.
And that comparison was stupid as eugh.
Though I do agree that the stalker is pretty much a virus

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I guess you are the type don't read whole thread and just jump in on latest reply that you dont like
I specifically said in this thread, I have encountered a harassments before where a guy just sitting in my house and refuse to leave.
The reason he is stalking is even more ridiculous.
He is mad because I under cut him on Algoat Horn and I should be selling a stack of 99 instead of 20.
I followed GM instruction and got rid of him, how about learn to read?

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

So their only options are to either lock down their house from everyone or allow any and everyone in? Sounds right to me! :^)

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Dishonest in what sense? The authoritize figure provided steps the OP can take and the OP refuses to take them yet expects the GM to help. You need to take the steps offer by the GM for the GM to help. They cannot just escalate things off the bat.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...not wearing a mask is endangering yourself and others from a disease that either you get mild symptoms, get lesions on your organs or just outright die due to complications.
A GM is telling you to just act passively toward a person actively bothering you. By ignoring their presence and rendering their texts invisible to yourself, while the person can still enter your space and shout whatever they darn feel like and have jack all for consequence.
They are not the same.

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How many people actually read a thread from beginning nowadays?
I have described the steps taken to remove someone sitting in your personal house.
Yes, that means stalker got removed by GM and put into a jail for a warning marked to his account

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

How many people actually read a thread from beginning nowadays?
I have described the steps taken to remove someone sitting in your personal house.
Yes, that means stalker got removed by GM and put into a jail for a warning marked to his account

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How many of you actually read what you post?

You compared this situation

to the pandemic

bleeding hell, awareness much?

You may be right on the GM bit, but your comparison was trash and in poor taste.

That is what I'm on about: not your argument, your analogy. So yes. I did read. You clearly didn't.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Dishonest in what sense? The authoritize figure provided steps the OP can take and the OP refuses to take them yet expects the GM to help. You need to take the steps offer by the GM for the GM to help. They cannot just escalate things off the bat.

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Things are already escalated though, aren't they?

After asking someone to leave and watching them refuse you have literally zero options because you don't have full control of your own house. I've seen so many people list examples of other games where their housing systems allowed you to expel and prevent singular people from entering the house. I personally grew up playing group dress up chat room games where you could easily remove people from rooms and prevent them from getting in. It's not that hard.

You shouldn't have to ask a GM for help in this situation at all. And honestly, the GMs instructions sound awful to begin with because it sounds like a very easy way for people to harass others without facing punishment. They know exactly where the GM draws the line and where to stop their behavior and when they can resume that same behavior. "Oh I just successfully made these people close off their house which means they can't have visitors anymore. This should hurt their FC/Venue's growth while I proceed to wait for them to open it back up thinking that I'm gone. Even if I return, they'll just have to close the house down again and hope I go further because GMs won't do anything otherwise."

And to add on to this, I've met more creeps on FFXIV than I have else where. I certainly can't imagine why when they can get away with doing as they please.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

because it sounds like a very easy way for people to harass others without facing punishment. They know exactly where the GM draws the line and where to stop their behavior and when they can resume that same behavior. "Oh I just successfully made these people close off their house which means they can't have visitors anymore. This should hurt their FC/Venue's growth while I proceed to wait for them to open it back up thinking that I'm gone. Even if I return, they'll just have to close the house down again and hope I go further because GMs won't do anything otherwise."

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Aww, don't give away the answer. I'm trying to get them from point A to B on their own, lol.

The point is we do not have those systems in this game, and truth be told I doubt we will ever have those systems in place. I mean in FFXIV you can remove someone from your friends list and you will still remain on the list of the person you removed.

Going based off the screen shot from the other thread I would personally say sure it has escalated but from the POV of a GM I could see how they may feel this is still a simple case where locking the FC or ignoring the person would be enough to solve the issue. If say they did ignore them or did lock their door but the person is standing outside their door or is hunting them down in the overworld then at that point it would be considered an escalated event.

So I still ask what exactly do people expect GM's to do? Should they just drop the ban hammer for every person someone feels is a creep, annoying, disrespectful, or whatever? Sure would nice if SE offered more tools to remove troubled people, but at the same time FFXIV team does not seem to like actions that overtly single out a certain person.

That being said I do know of at least one group that was able to get GM's to help with someone that would stalk their venue. Yes for a time they had to close their doors but even after they did that they would still spam emotes outside their door, or even find them in the overworld because they were once friends. GM's did take action and it stopped after a few months. Sure it was not instant or anything but something did happen after they followed their steps and kept reporting the issue.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

The point is we do not have those systems in this game, and truth be told I doubt we will ever have those systems in place. I mean in FFXIV you can remove someone from your friends list and you will still remain on the list of the person you removed.

Going based off the screen shot from the other thread I would personally say sure it has escalated but from the POV of a GM I could see how they may feel this is still a simple case where locking the FC or ignoring the person would be enough to solve the issue. If say they did ignore them or did lock their door but the person is standing outside their door or is hunting them down in the overworld then at that point it would be considered an escalated event.

So I still ask what exactly do people expect GM's to do? Should they just drop the ban hammer for every person someone feels is a creep, annoying, disrespectful, or whatever? Sure would nice if SE offered more tools to remove troubled people, but at the same time FFXIV team does not seem to like actions that overtly single out a certain person.

That being said I do know of at least one group that was able to get GM's to help with someone that would stalk their venue. Yes for a time they had to close their doors but even after they did that they would still spam emotes outside their door, or even find them in the overworld because they were once friends. GM's did take action and it stopped after a few months. Sure it was not instant or anything but something did happen after they followed their steps and kept reporting the issue.

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I think this is the crux of the point about stalking and harassment in the game. There are no tools to protect yourself from it. You can blacklist people but they can still follow you and silently continue harassing you. The option you are given is to completely lock yourself away from them and essentially be punished for someone else's harassment of you. If you have a friend that turns into a creep and you remove them from your friend's list it is still a one way removal, they can continue to know when you are on, where you are etc.

The systems to protect people in game from creeps and harassers don't exist and should. I should be able to blacklist someone and never have to interact with them in game (like a certain 3rd party mod lets you do, not that I am advocating its use). You should be able to eject and blacklist people from your housing instance. You shouldn't have to rely on waiting months for a GM to do something rather than just having systems in place to fix the problem.