Savage Raids are poorly designed and Enrage is fake difficulty.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I never said I was the best at this game, but I didn't sign on to play Starcraft either and that's what a lot of these savage raids feel like. It requires some kind of mythical skill that can only be obtained through being born with it or an intravenous drip of Rockstar and Mountain Dew.

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Is it a gear issue? Like, could there not be a succifient damage output due to gear?

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Originally Posted by Vav2021

Is it a gear issue? Like, could there not be a succifient damage output due to gear?

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If I knew, I'd address it.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I never said I was the best at this game, but I didn't sign on to play Starcraft either and that's what a lot of these savage raids feel like. It requires some kind of mythical skill that can only be obtained through being born with it or an intravenous drip of Rockstar and Mountain Dew.

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A lot of it is really your settings and understanding certain "mythical" things about the game.

Mythical things such as knowing that if you dodge an attack before the cast bar ends, rather than before the animation ends, you reliably avoid attacks or knowing that you can buy gear, food, pots and materia from the market board to boost your damage with little effort.

Settings that help are moving your target bar lower down so you can see what is being cast while still looking at the hotbar, legacy controls which give you a lot more time to avoid attacks, reducing effects from other players so that you can actually see what a boss is doing, keybinds such as a hotbar slot with sprint on it and other keybinds you find useful.

The chances are that some of your party members in party finder are using sub-optimal settings, are not aware of certain mythical basics and haven't bothered with food, pots and materia.

They sometimes don't bother to get the basic gear they could get either. I once did a current extreme trial with someone who had just beaten the MSQ and was in gear from a leveling dungeon and we could not get anywhere because DPS was too low to beat the first phase.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Expecting 8 people to perform 15 minutes of mechanics without losing DPS, without a single death and all this while poorly communicating is the crux of everything that makes Savage raiding a horrible experience, the icing on that inedible cake is enrage which enforces this mechanic through fake difficulty and removes any flexibility or room for error.

It's no wonder all the toxicity in FFXIV comes from the savage raiding community, which is in turn why we have all these parsers controversies which are taking up the devs focus. This problem could easily be fixed by offering a little wiggle room for mistakes and removing the pointless enrage function but I guess that's not happening any time soon.

Now I'll sit back and wait for all the accusations of "trolling" or me not "gitting gud" to spew forth like the contents of an overflowing toilet.

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Enrage is a necessary mechanic that prevents players from being required to spend unhealthy amounts of time doing content without interruption. Unfortunately, a gaming company cannot force us to get up and walk around/drink water if content takes too long, so they created enrage mechanics to "force" players to take a break.

Long ago, in FFXI, players became physically ill due to trying to complete content which required full attention with no interruptions for a long duration of time. Enrage is there to prevent this.

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"Pandemonium Warden is one of two High Notorious Monsters in Final Fantasy XI (along with Absolute Virtue) to garner special maintenance to weaken its powers.

Upon its introduction into Final Fantasy XI, more than 36 players marathon fighting Pandemonium Warden for 18 hours were unable to defeat it.

They were forced to retire after members of the party started to become physically ill; after such a prolonged period of gaming, they began to faint and vomit, creating news reports to be filed in argument of the game's User Message present at every login, which states that Square Enix "...does not wish to see [their players'] lives..." suffer as a result of extensive play.

Following the 18 hour attempt, the monster (along with Absolute Virtue) was patched to only have a spawn time of two hours, and its overall difficulty was significantly decreased — if not beaten within that time, it despawns and vanishes; also, its satellites no longer have 25,000 HP each, but closer to only 2,400."

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

If I knew, I'd address it.

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Like how you addressed hiding your stuff so people can't help you?

All we can do is guess work now that the evil parses are hidden. We could go back to a previous post where you did zero damage and still got outhealed, and start with that, but then it just goes to 'press 1'.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Enrage is a necessary mechanic that prevents players from being required to spend unhealthy amounts of time doing content without interruption.

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Where is this coming from? Enrage timers are to stop people from just throwing bodies at a fight until it falls over, and allow devs to create beginning, middle, and end segments to a challenging fight. Else you could brute force every savage/ultimate like it was an Alliance Raid.

Expecting 8 people to perform 15 minutes of mechanics - Enrage for P1S, P2S, P3S, and iirc P4S is at about 11-12 minutes.

without a single death - incorrect.

and all this while poorly communicating - Learn to read macros and learn how to see visual tells for mechanics and all that poor communication suddenly goes away.

This problem could easily be fixed by offering a little wiggle room for mistakes - There is already wiggle room for mistakes. Everyone in a raid can die and still clear.

This savage tier was designed to be cleared in i580 minimum and a lot of people did. If people are hitting enrage in i595+ average, well you know what the problem is.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

If I knew, I'd address it.

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You already know what the issue is; you already know how to address it.

Something something refusal something something denial something....

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Expecting 8 people to perform 15 minutes of mechanics without losing DPS, without a single death and all this while poorly communicating is the crux of everything that makes Savage raiding a horrible experience, the icing on that inedible cake is enrage which enforces this mechanic through fake difficulty and removes any flexibility or room for error.

This problem could easily be fixed by offering a little wiggle room for mistakes and removing the pointless enrage function but I guess that's not happening any time soon.

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I removed things from the main post that were jabs at the community and not really helpful to the argument. I’m biting not for those but the actual arguments in here.

First off, it’s actually very normal for RPGs to have bosses or fights with enrages. It’s far more common in JRPGs. I’d list a bunch of JRPG games with enrages I’ve played through but the list would be very long. This is to test players knowledge of their ability to do damage. In a turn based or ATB system it’s far more common to do to test the player’s turn economy, gear, character builds, and knowledge of optimal spells skills etc.

Second, if you’ve done a fight without an enrage before you’d not want fights like that either. They can lead to issues of fights taking far longer than designed. If P3S is designed to be however long it is, having it repeat and do it up to 40 minutes because the team constantly snowballed since the party was given enough “forgiveness” that the only people really doing damage are the tanks and/or healers, it becomes excruciating. Hyperbole of course.

However, the biggest issue with this all is that mechanics being more forgiving… is the part that makes it less difficult. The idea of savage is it’s to test class knowledge of the players through multiple methods. One: a DPS check (enrage maybe adds or something else) to make sure the players have appropriate gear, are actually playing their jobs beyond spamming a skill, and making sure they can do it under pressure and while juggling other things. Two: co-ordination. They test your ability to not only handle your own individual mechanics but also do it while communicating strategies of others and working with/around them. Being punished for either you or your team mates not doing one of those aspects makes the fight less challenging over all. And finally: mechanically challenge the player to make sure they can figure things out or act based on information given by the designers in the fight or other players based on what it is. If one of those isn’t there, it’s not MMO endgame. Each one of those is an important pillar to good MMO PVE endgame fight design. Some of it can be modified slightly to adjust to the type of MMO or even basic structure of the fights. But if one of those is missing it becomes a lot more enticing. If relying on your team mates stopped existing, why make it an MMO? Just remove the servers and make it an action RPG. Remove the rotational requirement? Why even try? Just do the bare minimum and just keep dodging. Not like you won’t beat it if you don’t put in effort, making the mechanics a lot less enticing because you don’t have the juggle. And finally, if you remove the mechanics every boss becomes a dummy and it’s no fun.

If you have an idea for how to design a fight without an enrage instead of just saying “do it” explain a replacement that fills that requirement. Also, final note. This is savage we’re talking about. You can ignore it if you don’t like it. Do other content, play other games. Savage is meant to be challenging in some ways. But how do you ensure the players are playing their jobs at all without something to end the fight should it go so long.

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Originally Posted by LauraAdalena

First off, it’s actually very normal for RPGs to have bosses or fights with enrages. It’s far more common in JRPGs. I’d list a bunch of JRPG games with enrages I’ve played through but the list would be very long.

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I played every single numbered FF and I actually struggle to come up with more than a handful of fights with enrages. There's one or two challenges on Gran Pulse that had enrages and that's all I can think of.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

I played every single numbered FF and I actually struggle to come up with more than a handful of fights with enrages. There's one or two challenges on Gran Pulse that had enrages and that's all I can think of.

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Yeah FFXIV has enrages for important mechanical reasons, but the FF series really doesn't have enrages. I'm more used to RPGs letting you and a boss trade whacks until you're both totally dry of resources, giving thieves time to try stealing for over an hour of attempts, etc.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Also funny Angienessyo thinks that a single death wont kill a savage run.

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I took that post to mean that a death -- lacking any other elements -- is not enough to end a savage pull.

Which, honestly, is true. The Weakness (or Brink of Death) ain't great, nor is the loss of DPS while someone's on the floor; if you aren't well-geared as a group, a couple of DPS deaths can spell trouble. But it doesn't necessarily mean a wipe.

Having someone down during mechanics that require the whole party up? Or where if someone specific is down, someone else will randomly get the mechanic? (Darkened Fire, any stack-with-healer light party mechanic, etc.) Yeah, deaths in those specific scenarios most likely spell a quick end to that pull.

Um....welcome to video games? Like your whole argument can literally be applied to every single game ever made.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I never said I was the best at this game, but I didn't sign on to play Starcraft either and that's what a lot of these savage raids feel like. It requires some kind of mythical skill that can only be obtained through being born with it or an intravenous drip of Rockstar and Mountain Dew.

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Didn't realize "don't stand in bad and hit buttons" required an adderall prescription.

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

Didn't realize "don't stand in bad and hit buttons" required an adderall prescription.

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Too many people put higher end raiding on a pedestal.

It’s much easier to get into than you think.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

If I knew, I'd address it.

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It's time for Seb's quick and dirty guide to getting better at raiding yay! =(

Step one: Take responsibility for your mistakes, you aren't going to learn from them if you can't accept that they happen. If someone else's error is snowballing into you, don't fly off the handle at them but rather take a moment to see if you can adjust something to prevent it being an issue in the future.

Step two: Record yourself with Shadowplay or whatever, upload it to YouTube as private video clips if needed. Your perception of time and space in the middle of complex mechanic may be drastically different to reality. It's all too easy to feel like you kept your GCD slammed the entire fight when the reality is that you repeatedly dropped the ball once things start happening. Spotting and correcting this will give you the biggest improvements to your overall throughput and consistency by far, so try to make a habit of watching your own PoVs back from time to time.

Step three: Embrace the logs, don't hate them. But importantly, stop going straight to the DPS metric. Start with your Active % rate in the casts tab, that's the true metric that highlights better players irrespective of how things lined up. Focus on pushing your Active % as close to 100% as the fight will allow, that will give you the baseline to start focusing more of your GCDs into DPS as required.

I don't mean for this to be snarky, but there are entire statics that are unable to clear savage tiers until they are at the ilvl cap and have the echo. If Enrage/DPS is a problem for you/your group at this point, your time would probably be better spent reading/watching some job/gearing guides. A proper rotation/opener pays off substantially even if you're dropping gcds to react to mechanics.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I never said I was the best at this game, but I didn't sign on to play Starcraft either and that's what a lot of these savage raids feel like. It requires some kind of mythical skill that can only be obtained through being born with it or an intravenous drip of Rockstar and Mountain Dew.

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This is absurd. I know you're just trolling to rile people up on the forum, but as someone who had basically never played an MMO before XIV, has a full-time job that takes up lots of time & mental energy, and was/is not the best at videogames (I love turn-based JRPGs because reaction time can be sooooo slow - which is very different than XIV) - nothing is mythical. I'm not saying I'm going to be clearing DSR or TEA any time soon - I won't be - or that I'm some aMaZiNg player, I'm not. But wow, I've gotten so much better over time! And I've gotten better because I've sought out help, and had people look at my logs, and offer advice, and so on & so forth. I didn't just throw a fit that I wasn't doing well. And I just set foot in the content on a regular basis once I got over the horror of embarrassing myself. Would a hardcore static want me? NO! Would I want to be in one? NO! Did I clear the past tier in good time? YES, and not because my body was just dragged past the finish line.

Like I said, tippy-top raiders (IME) love helping & teaching for the most part, when they know what they're getting into. If you're joining clear parties & aren't capable of clearing, are they going to be happy? No. Will they be happy to help you improve in a learning party? Yes, yes they will be. Raiders WANT more people in the raid scene, esp. on Crystal. I never thought I'd be raiding, ever, but now I really look forward to Savage patches dropping because it means I get a couple of months of fun with people I enjoy spending time with & overcoming challenges together as a group.

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

I don't mean for this to be snarky, but there are entire statics that are unable to clear savage tiers until they are at the ilvl cap and have the echo.

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Which is fine!

A static doesnt directly mean a pro team. Its just a team that has learned very well to synergize and optimize through that. They can still contain weaker players, its just that those players are good at the teamwork part. But skill can still be lower than required. But for a static those players can still be welcome as even though they are weaker, they are reliable.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

If I knew, I'd address it.

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But you do know, you just refuse to accept it. Nobody is being born good at the game. We all learn through our mistakes but for that to happen we have to first accept that we made mistakes and that maybe our mistakes are the ones that are holding the group back. You say that raiders accept nothing short of perfection and by that imply that you are reasonably close to playing perfectly, it's just the toxic raiders and the toxic devs that dont accept that but the only person holding you back is yourself. You can hide your logs all you want but it only takes away your own oppurtunity to get better at the game.

Most people in here see through your denial, I sincerely hope you can break out of it yourself.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

I played every single numbered FF and I actually struggle to come up with more than a handful of fights with enrages. There's one or two challenges on Gran Pulse that had enrages and that's all I can think of.

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Enrages are a staple of MMO content, not FF.

Imo it's too easy currently if you have even just okay gear.
I know it's the first tier but I felt like I learned the fights in like a pull or two.

Yes with guides, but that's how most people do it so that's a better way to judge it imo.
First P4S kill I did a bad thing and snuck into a KFF group at the end of the week without having gotten past ACT 2 in phase 2.
Or well, I personally knew it but the group I got there with was completely clueless and kept exploding the group so we couldn't get past it...

Yes I shouldn't be sneaky like that especially when I complain about others joining kill groups without being able to reach enrage ( as in, actually be alive themselves and get there. Not lie on the floor and just literally see it once ).
But I was very confident it'd be easy and it was, ideally tho I should've been punished for my arrogance but I wasn't, it was very easy on the first try.
It's first grade math and soaking a tower.
The blue and purple tethers basically solve themselves too.

Then again this doesn't stop people in weekly clear groups from pinax meme:ing or not being able to put the fires on the squares in P3S....
But I'd still rather have fights with personal responsibilities tho than big zergs where a handful of people do everything and everyone else basically gets carried.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Imo it's too easy currently if you have even just okay gear.
I know it's the first tier but I felt like I learned the fights in like a pull or two.

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You're quite clearly above the OP in terms of ability to clear a current fight.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

If I knew, I'd address it.

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It has been brought up. Healers doing 0 damage in Savage is a reason why you would be hitting enrage. Healers doing 0 damage while also healing less than a co-healer is even worse.

If you truly want to figure out what's wrong and to improve, you need to stop worrying about Savage right now because you're not ready for it. You need to learn how to play the game at at least a below average level.

If you truly want to improve, run Aglaia since a lot of people do that evil parsing thing there. Then go to that one website and look at where you fell. There's an analysis tool that will tell you how to improve.

There are several YouTubers that have videos to teach you anything from game basics to healer basics to job specific basics to advanced techniques for all of those. Look for Azurite FFXIV that would be my suggestion, but there are tons out there.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Expecting 8 people to perform 15 minutes of mechanics without losing DPS, without a single death and all this while poorly communicating is the crux of everything that makes Savage raiding a horrible experience, the icing on that inedible cake is enrage which enforces this mechanic through fake difficulty and removes any flexibility or room for error.

It's no wonder all the toxicity in FFXIV comes from the savage raiding community, which is in turn why we have all these parsers controversies which are taking up the devs focus. This problem could easily be fixed by offering a little wiggle room for mistakes and removing the pointless enrage function but I guess that's not happening any time soon.

Now I'll sit back and wait for all the accusations of "trolling" or me not "gitting gud" to spew forth like the contents of an overflowing toilet.

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Uh... you can have lots of deaths in most savage fights. There are specific points where deaths can be problematic... but in general? Nah.

Enrages are in pretty much every modern MMO because otherwise you could sandbag most bosses by filling raids with only tanks and healers.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

I never said I was the best at this game, but I didn't sign on to play Starcraft either and that's what a lot of these savage raids feel like. It requires some kind of mythical skill that can only be obtained through being born with it or an intravenous drip of Rockstar and Mountain Dew.

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Then stick to normal content? Savage raids are completely optional and are supposed to be difficult.

I hate this phrase, but this is one of those rare "git gud" requirement replies.

If anything the toxicity is coming from you!!! Just because you can’t clear the content doesn’t give you the right to try to talk down to the people that can. Maybe you should play another game!!!

idk if they know this but none of the savage fights are 15m they barely exceed 13m LMFAO

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Imo it's too easy currently if you have even just okay gear.
I know it's the first tier but I felt like I learned the fights in like a pull or two.

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Playing devil's advocate ("Ascian's advocate"?) for a moment here, while I agree that savage is not inherently hugely difficult, I would say that it's significantly different than a lot of content in this game in two ways.

First, and arguably most importantly, it's less that savage is inherently hugely punishing and more that the rest of the game is extremely forgiving.

You don't need to play your job in anything remotely like an "optimal" manner to get through 95% of the content in this game. You can play through the majority of the game not even really knowing anything about GCD versus oGCD, or aligning buffs as a party, or anything else.

Clearing an MSQ dungeon doesn't require you to know how best to optimize your rotation as a DPS. Getting through a story-mode trial doesn't require you to know how best to heal efficiently when there's large amounts of unavoidable damage going out and people taking avoidable damage you need to spot heal.

The minimum you need to do to get through savage is not actually that bad... but it's definitely above what you need to even perform tolerably well in the vast majority of content in the game.

And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that; not every bit of content in a game needs to be made to be challenging, where you need to be efficient/optimal to get through it.

I have plenty of friends who would be capable of optimizing their gameplay and doing savage, but who aren't interested; they play FFXIV to pop on, do some stuff casually with friends, enjoy the story when there's more story to enjoy, and then vanish off to other games again. If they want a game that challenges their skill, they often have plenty of single-player games they want to focus on.

However, the downside to this is that the bulk of content in this game is singularly ill-suited to preparing people to head into the small bit of high-end content which does require at least some deeper understanding of combat in the game. Moreover, the game is extremely bad about providing resources for folks to learn those skills.

Which means you can clear all the normal stuff in the game, then decide you want to tackle savage, and find that you're absolutely adrift with no clue how to perform at the level savage wants.

(Honestly, I was in that spot myself when I decided to move into endgame content a couple of tiers ago.)

And while getting to that level of performance honestly isn't that hard when you look at it in isolation, the game itself provides no assistance on how to do so. As a result, it's up to the community -- with videos on "how to play <X job> optimally" and places like the Balance or SaltedXIV to compile lists of tips, resources, and guides -- to help hand folks a map on how to get from point A ("I can finish my duty roulettes without problem") to point B ("I can actually play this job the way the combat designers intended it to synergize with itself and with other jobs, and am doing savage content").

And since much of that type of optimization content is targeted at folks already doing that content who want to get better, I do know folks who want to start in savage who find it all very intimidating.

Worse, if they just throw themselves at the brick wall repeatedly and fail, it only starts to feel more intimidating.

The second factor is that, as I've noted before (albeit in that case with regards to Bozja content), this game is extremely good at misdirection in higher-end content.

The mechanics are rarely that complicated, but they'll be obscured behind a lot of "noisy" showmanship... as I've put it before, a stage magician doing something with one hand to hold your attention, while concealing the tankbuster up the other sleeve.

In normal content, there are ground telegraphs that "bad things are about to be here", and people just learn to look for those even though the fights will also telegraph things in other ways. In higher-end content like savage, you lack the ground telegraphs, or if they are present they're going to be done at a time which is not super useful.

It might be way before the mechanic happens, like P4S phase 2 and Hesperos' mischievous choice to telegraph everything all at once, do something else, then telegraph what order the previously-telegraphed things will happen in, then actually resolve all telegraphed mechanics. More often, they'll just happen far too late to react to them, unless you've paid attention to other environmental cues.

And even if the mechanic itself is simple, the timing will often not be forgiving, meaning you need not only to see what's happening from more subtle cues than any potential ground AoE, but you also need to do so quickly and react without huge delay.

No other content has really taught folks to watch for environmental cues in that same sense, much less to respond with the same degree of urgency; trying to learn to do so is part of getting used to higher-end content like savage. But if you're trying to develop that habit (to survive mechanics) and trying to learn how to play your job more optimally, trying to learn both things at the same time... well, yeah, that genuinely could feel intimidating to folks.

Which is why it's actually good advice to focus on content that's lower-tier than savage -- like a current alliance raid, or some of the more approachable extremes -- while still requiring a little more than MSQ dungeons to get through. The mechanics are going to be more forgiving timing-wise, which means you can focus more on fine-tuning performance in your job.

Once you feel like you've got that down to muscle memory and are really solid on performance there, stepping up into savage will likely feel much easier.

tl;dr - Do I think savage is hugely difficult, in the end? No, not really. I think most players are capable of it if they want to be, though I know not all are -- and have sympathy for those who are not, for whatever reason it might be. (Nerve damage to hands that leaves them unable to weave between GCD abilities, etc.)

But the game doesn't give a lot of resources to folks who do want to get to that level, forcing them to rely on out-of-game informational sources. And as it provides no real ramp-up to that content, folks trying to make the jump all at once may definitely feel like it's more intimidating than it actually needs to be.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Playing devil's advocate ("Ascian's advocate"?)

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Diabolos advocate

I am struggling to think of a legitimate argument against enrages, and the closest I can come up with is that in a roundabout way they (and general fight scripting) reinforce the rigid rotation-based job design that is dragging down job fantasies and game feel.

Although I still think:

(1) If enrages are reinforcing that design philosophy, they certainly aren't the worst offender compared to literally every other mechanic in raids, as well as the job designs themselves.
(2) Generally whatever negatives enrages have are pretty solidly counterbalanced by an interest in not wasting players' time and encouraging a base level of competency and rewards system. We could argue that they way they are implemented may be too strictly rewarding mind-numbing rotation optimization, but I again think that is a consequence of the job designs themselves and doesn't detract to the overall benefits of having an enrage system on maintaining fun game loops.

I think OP is misguided in their frustrations. Enrage might be a symptom of bad design in some limited respects/instances, but I don't consider it remotely a core "problem" with the game, if it is even a problem at all. I think raids could have more randomized timelines and jobs could have more reaction-based gameplay, and that still would not obviate the utility of having a hard cutoff time for clear attempts. Though I do think it wouldn't hurt for the devs to play with design space outside of enrages from time to time to shake things up.

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Originally Posted by JamieRose

Expecting 8 people to perform 15 minutes of mechanics without losing DPS, without a single death and all this while poorly communicating is the crux of everything that makes Savage raiding a horrible experience, the icing on that inedible cake is enrage which enforces this mechanic through fake difficulty and removes any flexibility or room for error.

It's no wonder all the toxicity in FFXIV comes from the savage raiding community, which is in turn why we have all these parsers controversies which are taking up the devs focus. This problem could easily be fixed by offering a little wiggle room for mistakes and removing the pointless enrage function but I guess that's not happening any time soon.

Now I'll sit back and wait for all the accusations of "trolling" or me not "gitting gud" to spew forth like the contents of an overflowing toilet.

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Your own expectations are correct. You need to get good.

Also the devs do not have a parser controversy. Their controversy were with adds on that gave you information you were not intended to have and gave visuals to aoes that weren't intended to have any.
In 8 years no one has been banned for streaming with a parser on. Ever. Let me reiterate this. The devs do not have a parser controversy. The people that have a controversy with parsers are BAD PLAYERS. It's a controversy the community made up.

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Originally Posted by Jinx_Darkes

Your own expectations are correct. You need to get good.

Also the devs do not have a parser controversy. Their controversy were with adds on that gave you information you were not intended to have and gave visuals to aoes that weren't intended to have any.
In 8 years no one has been banned for streaming with a parser on. Ever. Let me reiterate this. The devs do not have a parser controversy. The people that have a controversy with parsers are BAD PLAYERS. It's a controversy the community made up.

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getting good is the hardest pill for a lot of people to swallow unfortunately

Troll OP got 12 pages of replies congrats!

I've cleared every savage since Alexander Creator and so far I've only seen enrage 5x. Once in God Kefka, once in Final Omega, twice in Eden Shiva, and once in Hesperos. Aside from that I always either wiped long before the enrage or crushed it long before any enrage could've happened.