Japanese FFXIV streamer receives a suspension for using add-ons.

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Originally Posted by Jin-

That's ffxiv community in nutshell. Reporting over petty and small reasons because they CAN. Someone used a curse word? Let's mass report them...

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Welcome to the internet. Where on one side you have people offended by everything while on other people that consider having sex with your mother as a viable form of criticism.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

But he wasn’t squeaky clean. Find me an actual case where someone got falsely accused of something and got auctioned against by FF’s GMs, then we have a completely different problem to discuss.

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You're right he wasn't. You'd be hard pressed to find a single person in this game who is, and it all comes down to getting the "Eye of Sauron" treatment.

It didn't have to be add ons. They could find him swearing off the cuff in a bout of momentary anger and pounce on that and they'd be happy and just as justified.

So SE is going to slap some small-to-mid streamers (If anyone thinks someone big like Asmongold or Xeno gets banned they are delusional) to satiate JP bloodlust after losing world first. In a month the whole deal will be over and we will all go back to usual. Looks like the only losers are those poor guys who just happened to be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" so SE can make an easy public example of them. Such righteousness, much fair.

Yoshi has been saying it so many times now that people should take the hint: "Don't use 3rd party programs/plugins/mods, those are illegal and bad *wink, wink*"

And we still get people pulling the surprised pikachu face when they are caught openly using said things they were told not to use.

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Originally Posted by OM3GA-Z3RO

Yoshi has been saying it so many times now that people should take the hint: "Don't use 3rd party programs/plugins/mods, those are illegal and bad *wink, wink*"

And we still get people pulling the surprised pikachu face when they are caught openly using said things they were told not to use.

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He has also spoken out against report wars, which this one straight up is. So the question is which community do we find more valuable. Streamers that dont harm anyone with UI additions or a kiwi farms like forum?

If you are stupid enough to stream with Addons than you deserve to be banned. Use what you want in private. I dont judge anyone who uses mods, or addons... just keep quit about it ok?

What is this talk about JP bloodlust???
Japan does not have much of an e-sport culture nor professional streaming culture; and most of the participating JP teams do not have any groups backing them.
Most JP viewers who were watching the world first race weren't all that hopeful in the first place.
Most were speculating on TPS, for that matter.

In any case, SE had to repeat their warning, and if some streamers continued to ignore them, there's no one to blame but themselves.
If SE didn't act on such a blatant display, what was the meaning of making the announcement in the first place?

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

What is this talk about JP bloodlust???
Japan does not have much of an e-sport culture nor professional streaming culture; and most of the participating JP teams do not have any groups backing them.
Most JP viewers who were watching the world first race weren't all that hopeful in the first place.
Most were speculating on TPS, for that matter.

In any case, SE had to repeat their warning, and if some streamers continued to ignore them, there's no one to blame but themselves.
If SE didn't act on such a blatant display, what was the meaning of making the announcement in the first place?

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I dont know what announcement you've read but in the one I've read yoship acknowledges that there are legitimate needs in terms of UI modificiation so cracking the whip down on exactly that seems like a very weird approach.

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

What is this talk about JP bloodlust???
Japan does not have much of an e-sport culture nor professional streaming culture; and most of the participating JP teams do not have any groups backing them.
Most JP viewers who were watching the world first race weren't all that hopeful in the first place.
Most were speculating on TPS, for that matter.

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The entire incident was caused by a certain group on 5ch who are notorious for this. Keep up.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I dont know what announcement you've read but in the one I've read yoship acknowledges that there are legitimate needs in terms of UI modificiation so cracking the whip down on exactly that seems like a very weird approach.

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It make perfect sense.
If it's not currently in the game, then someone who uses an add-on has and advantage over someone who does not use it. They are not fighting the content at the same level.

Just because they are considering improvement does not mean add-ons are allowed.

In any case, unless GM stated clearly what was the cause for the ban, everything is speculation.

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Originally Posted by Deedlit

The entire incident was caused by a certain group on 5ch who are notorious for this. Keep up.

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I think you are insulting the SE dev team that they can be pressured by a group of some anonymous players to ban someone for nothing.

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

I think you are insulting the SE dev team that they can be pressured by a group of some anonymous players to ban someone for nothing.

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But that is what is happening. If that's an insult then they should prove that they are better than that.

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

I think you are insulting the SE dev team that they can be pressured by a group of some anonymous players to ban someone for nothing.

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As on trend being offended is, he's not wrong you know =/

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

I think you are insulting the SE dev team that they can be pressured by a group of some anonymous players to ban someone for nothing.

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I am, do it often. However, that is exactly what's happening.

I understand Yoshi-P's concerns about ACT and specific tools, especially parsers, but honestly the approach at this point is getting stupid. The problem games like WoW have when it comes to parsers is the lack of enforcement on toxic behavior. They don't have active GM's that really do anything unlike FFXIV where they take reports fairly seriously.

You can't make a game with strict dps checks and then get surprised that people want dps parsers. If the streamer wasn't harassing anyone then just leave them be....

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Originally Posted by Saraide

But that is what is happening. If that's an insult then they should prove that they are better than that.

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Well, I can see that you believe that is what happened, and refuse to see it otherwise.
I see your stance as overreacting and biased.
It is my impression that NA/EU have more casual add-on culture and "can't hurt" kind of attitude; perhaps that is affecting how you are seeing things.

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

Well, I can see that you believe that is what happened, and refuse to see it otherwise.
I see your stance as overreacting and biased.
It is my impression that NA/EU have more casual add-on culture and "can't hurt" kind of attitude; perhaps that is affecting how you are seeing things.

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What Lol.

Go have a look for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Let's be real. They said million of times. You CANNOT use third party tools

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Yoshida also went out of his way to explain that Discord, Excel, nonstandard keyboards, modified controllers, and handheld calculators, etc., were all likewise illegal "third-party tools" and that the difference, therefore, in where they draw the line in actual enforcement would have little to do with the technicalities of whether they are or are not (A) third-party or (B) tools and more to do with whether the thing in question knowingly creates significant gaps in advantage that'd lead to a more exclusive and less accessible player experience (or otherwise worsen the game for an average reasonable player).

That was immediately followed by a request NOT to start petty reporting wars. Alas...

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

What Lol.

Go have a look for yourself.

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I see that it's 5ch link, though it shows me nothing.
What is it that you want to show?

As I said before, even if a bunch of people reported something to SE, if the streamer was doing nothing wrong he would not have been banned.

SE's stance has been always if you are going to use 3rd party tool, use it in a way that no one will know about it. Don't flaunt it.

He has a point, there's a reason why GMs exist. They don't just ban people because a bunch of players filed reports. This streamer was pretty clearly made an example of with the TOS reminder.
Everyone was saying yoshi-p's statements about TOS were pointless without proof they would crack down on 3rd party usage when it's obvious, well here it is, it's a warning shot across the bow. It wasn't some conspiracy by the evil 4chan or 5chan or whatever.
Stop being so obvious if you're going to use these, they're taking it more seriously after the world first race had a bunch of teams brazenly showing off mods and addons.

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Originally Posted by xxSouxx

Well, I can see that you believe that is what happened, and refuse to see it otherwise.
I see your stance as overreacting and biased.
It is my impression that NA/EU have more casual add-on culture and "can't hurt" kind of attitude; perhaps that is affecting how you are seeing things.

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If it's any consolation for you the same types of people exist all over the world. That's why I have been refering to them by 'kiwi farms like forums' instead of refering to 'JP bloodlust'. In this thread and the other active one I've seen idea that the ToS need to be super strict so that people wont find loopholes. The people now report brigading are exactly the kind of people that look for loopholes but not to just personally improve their own experience. They just want to actively harm other people.

It's so weird people don't see the nuance.

Yoshi P wanted to directly congratulate and mention the groups that actually cleared it. However, HE CANNOT. ...Why?

Because most people who did clear are using third party tools on Display. He can't allow or show those parties because they're doing what he has stated NOT to do.

Yet, people still think it's an empty threat. He gave a speech/announcement so in the hopes that people DO NOT continue using these tools (at least in public) so he can actually acknowledge their efforts in clearing content, or any further promotions to many streamers out there. The game is more popular than ever - and streamers who continue to show their Add Ons make it difficult due to their rules to be acknowledged.

People who violate their NDAs makes it difficult to promote content.

He is saying basically don't make it public - I can't acknowledge you and you can get banned. Yes, he also doesn't want a witch hunt because you can see he goes on talks about the "private server" accusation.

But it's like people are more upset that the community has grown and people WILL get reported, because before it was treated as an empty threats. However, since things like World's First races it's been picked up by news outlets, and now while they're reporting they're linking them to material that clearly violates the TOS (hence likely why the first clear got a strike).

So how can SE promote or endorse players/streamers if they continue to publicly violate their TOS.

Are add ons QoL - yes. But at the same time continuing to use add ons publicly in events that could get an SE endorsement is just not a smart idea.

TL;dr - Streamers are making this a bigger problem since SE cannot acknowledge or link to materials - or say take time to visit someone's Twitch because they're now violating the rules with publicly displaying their add ons.

Imagine thinking that SE is wrong for enforcing rules they have set. If you are openly streaming activity that Yoshi-P and Devs have stated not to do, then you are just dumb and asking for it. Streams with ACT included are also fair game.

Imagine then trying to defend the streamers who clearly broke the rules. Whether people complained, or the streamer got caught by a dev, it really does not matter if the action is happening when it has always been clearly against the rules. So it is what it is.

If you are modding, parsing, using plugins etc, shut the hell up and stop posting it out in the open. That's the simple thing you can do to prevent things like this. How do people in 2022, still not understand this bare MINIMUM FACT?

TL;DR - Streamer deserves it for being dumb.

PS: If people keep being this negligent with it, they may take harsher stances with all mods /plugins.

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Originally Posted by Scott

If you are stupid enough to stream with Addons than you deserve to be banned. Use what you want in private. I dont judge anyone who uses mods, or addons... just keep quit about it ok?

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Finally....Someone gets it. This is what I have been trying to tell everyone here. You can't get banned when no one knows what you are doing.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

It's so weird people don't see the nuance.

Yoshi P wanted to directly congratulate and mention the groups that actually cleared it. However, HE CANNOT. ...Why?

Because most people who did clear are using third party tools on Display. He can't allow or show those parties because they're doing what he has stated NOT to do.

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https://twitter.com/FFsfia/status/11...c-alexander%2F

https://twitter.com/FF_XIV_EN/status...c-alexander%2F

It's so weird people don't see the nuance.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

https://twitter.com/FFsfia/status/11...c-alexander%2F

https://twitter.com/FF_XIV_EN/status...c-alexander%2F

It's so weird people don't see the nuance.

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Yup and see what happened afterwards? The craziness (private server, death threads...) and fallout, later when Yoshi saw people using a waymark tool - how our waymarks are treated like now?

Like I said, nuance. Because congratulating them later had brought up more issues.

I remember him stating wanting to do MORE for World's First, now look at the next post we get...a discussion on third party tools.

Good

He should be perma banned for cheating.

Im glad SE is finally enforcing the game rules on those scumbags.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Yup and see what happened afterwards? The craziness (private server, death threads...) and fallout, later when Yoshi saw people using a waymark tool - how our waymarks are treated like now?

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The way marks thing is pretty fair for sure. I should have linked the Entropy clears and congratulations instead. There was still a little drama there but we bought that on ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The way marks thing is pretty fair for sure. I should have linked the Entropy clears and congratulations instead. There was still a little drama there but we bought that on ourselves.

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I think people get the wrong idea that if I'm talking about promotional stuff, that it means NO ADD ONS should be used whatsoever. It's not my business to know and SE is generally hands off. However. People ignoring the fact that the game is one of SE's most popular games means that how they'll advertise that popularity comes into play. This is a community game. If people are using their materials SE would like to visibly promote it as you know "Picture speaks a thousand words"

But if streamers/people keep making those add ons public it's something they cannot endorse. No possible promotional materials. No ways of additional revenue or cost saving. So asking them not to show them was giving people an out to still use them discretely.

Good. Let him and others serve as an example. The guy that was openly cheating in CC with an alt also got caught and buried. I say fantastic. Cheating, win-trading and such has no place in this game and those that use it shouldn't be rewarded for it.

That also brings up a question...what if SE did sponsor a world-first challenge, with specific rules in place with regard to streams and such in place? That way they could analyze the footage and offer congratulations and such on the Twitter for those that did it right and honestly.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Imagine thinking that SE is wrong for enforcing rules they have set. If you are openly streaming activity that Yoshi-P and Devs have stated not to do, then you are just dumb and asking for it. Streams with ACT included are also fair game.

Imagine then trying to defend the streamers who clearly broke the rules. Whether people complained, or the streamer got caught by a dev, it really does not matter if the action is happening when it has always been clearly against the rules. So it is what it is.

If you are modding, parsing, using plugins etc, shut the hell up and stop posting it out in the open. That's the simple thing you can do to prevent things like this. How do people in 2022, still not understand this bare MINIMUM FACT?

TL;DR - Streamer deserves it for being dumb.

PS: If people keep being this negligent with it, they may take harsher stances with all mods /plugins.

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Problem is FFXIV has a small streaming community already and the impact streaming can have on a game is pretty huge. So yes, I think what SE is doing here is a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Seger

Good

He should be perma banned for cheating.

Im glad SE is finally enforcing the game rules on those scumbags.

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Its not cheating, get over yourself.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

Good. Let him and others serve as an example. The guy that was openly cheating in CC with an alt also got caught and buried. I say fantastic. Cheating, win-trading and such has no place in this game and those that use it shouldn't be rewarded for it.

That also brings up a question...what if SE did sponsor a world-first challenge, with specific rules in place with regard to streams and such in place? That way they could analyze the footage and offer congratulations and such on the Twitter for those that did it right and honestly.

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No one would give a crap about a twitter post. Same as now.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Its not cheating, get over yourself.

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Well according to Yoshi-P it is.

So you better get over yourself and stop defending filthy cheaters.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Problem is FFXIV has a small streaming community already and the impact streaming can have on a game is pretty huge. So yes, I think what SE is doing here is a mistake.



Its not cheating, get over yourself.

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You could also stream without, le gasp, meteor marks showing the AoE Ranges ( and spacing needed to not fail the drops).
You could also stream without Cactbot flaunting period.
You could also stream without a parser present.
You could also stream without plugins that allow for expanded information not natively available to the client.

People like you simply don't understand that streaming is not the problem here. The problem is openly flaunting tools and plugins that are not natively available in the game, of which not even the entire playerbase has access too. If they determine it's against the ToS, which everyone knows it already is, then yeah they can just ban people.

People getting bold with the ToS breaking, then wondering why SE cracking down. Dumb people being dumb then complaining when there are consequences.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

You could also stream without, le gasp, meteor marks showing the AoE Ranges ( and spacing needed to not fail the drops).
You could also stream without Cactbot flaunting period.
You could also stream without a parser present.
You could also stream without plugins that allow for expanded information not natively available to the client.

People like you simply don't understand that streaming is not the problem here. The problem is openly flaunting tools and plugins that are not natively available in the game, of which not even the entire playerbase has access too. If they determine it's against the ToS, which everyone knows it already is, then yeah they can just ban people.

People getting bold with the ToS breaking, then wondering why SE cracking down. Dumb people being dumb then complaining when there are consequences.

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And I'm saying there's nothing wrong with those tools and SE needs to get the stick out of their butts.

The fact that a bunch of people could coordinate a mass report on someone, and get what they want leaves me disappointed in the dev team or the gm team involved. You can't use third party tools to show them screen shots of someone verbally abusing someone, or threatening them, but you can use their twitch streams as evidence against someone for using a 'third' party tool. If we want to go full scorched earth it is unfair playstation players have no means to communicate verbally with other players via discord. That level of instant on the fly adjustments that doesn't require typing mid Ultimate is unfair. I hope everyone continues to herp the derp about this instead of maybe not allowing a bunch of people to mass report someone so their account gets banned for 10 days because they were salty they couldn't also attempt to clear the new fight. Really cute. JP involved should all be banned for this as well because that also is against tos if I am not mistaken. Isn't it? Calling for a bunch of people to mass report someone.

This honestly wasn't a problem until after the statement dropped and numerous people on 5ch thought it would be ha ha funny to see if they were serious about it. They vindictively reported someone they knew using add ons. One of the things that gets me, is the fact that they said you were not allowed to use a stream as evidence against someone, until I guess now? Or did they just cherry pick whenever third party evidence is okay? Also how would they know it is third party unless they too looked up those evil add ons and knew what to look for. I know some people who think the fps counter at the top of system config or character settings is a mod because it isn't on playstation.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

And I'm saying there's nothing wrong with those tools and SE needs to get the stick out of their butts.

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Well you are just a random nobody on the internet.

You are not a dev, you are not a GM, you don't work for SE.

So yeah...

Cheating is still cheating regardless of what you think.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

https://reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscussion...uspension_for/

A Japanese FFXIV streamer using XIVLauncher just received a 10-day suspension. He’s deleted all his twitch vods but here are some screenshots of him being taken to GM jail.

He was streaming with add-ons when SE’s announcement dropped and there were multiple posts on 5ch saying things like (paraphrasing) “Hey, let’s see if we can get these streamers banned” and “if SE doesn’t ban this streamer, I won’t believe in what they said about not allowing add-ons,” so I’m guessing there was a report brigade. A couple of hours later, the suspension happened.

I’d recommend avoiding streaming on Twitch with add-ons until the dust settles.

Edit: Looking at the screenshots, he was using SimpleTweaks for party buff timers, some plugin that lets you track other people’s CDs and ACT.

Also the streamer in question was speedrunner Hiroro from Team Overclock.

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good riddance

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Originally Posted by Ransu

And I'm saying there's nothing wrong with those tools and SE needs to get the stick out of their butts.

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It does provide an advantage that not everyone has. If you can see the meteor AoE in Thordan phase 2, you directly benefit from knowing the spacing needed to not blow up the meteors and fail the mechanic. <- Not directly available in the client
Things in UwU and automarkers on people that get registered for Titan Goals, is another example of something that provides direct benefit to resolve the mechanic.

You can sit there and pretend it doesn't provide an advantage but we both know it obviously does.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

It does provide an advantage that not everyone has. If you can see the meteor AoE in Thordan phase 2, you directly benefit from knowing the spacing needed to not blow up the meteors and fail the mechanic. <- Not directly available in the client
Things in UwU and automarkers on people that get registered for Titan Goals, is another example of something that provides direct benefit to resolve the mechanic.

You can sit there and pretend it doesn't provide an advantage but we both know it obviously does.

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There's nuance to this discussion. The streamer this is about only had minor add ons that showed things like buff timers in the party list, they didn't have the full stupid invisible telegraph identifier. You can't lump everybody who uses tools of any stripe straight into full cactbot cheaters.

I despise cactbot for a lot of reasons, things like automarking and telegraph marking are stupid imo, but the little dalamud ui stuff that people are getting banned for are not the same thing.